Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
If "I kill someone" there's a 90% chance they aren't vaccinated. Who cares how many are in the ICU? Most people that understand that overwhelming hospitals, keeping people off of ventilators and preventing 90% of the people who get covid don't die from it are the ones who care.

I realize you can get Covid if you're vaccinated. I also understand that it greatly increases the odds that I won't have serious side effects from it. I understand what the overall goal is. I also understand that I have taken the proper measures to minimize the effects of covid. Yet you keep trying to minimize all of that.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
If "I kill someone" there's a 90% chance they aren't vaccinated. Who cares how many are in the ICU? Most people that understand that overwhelming hospitals, keeping people off of ventilators and preventing 90% of the people who get covid don't die from it are the ones who care.

I realize you can get Covid if you're vaccinated. I also understand that it greatly increases the odds that I won't have serious side effects from it. I understand what the overall goal is. I also understand that I have taken the proper measures to minimize the effects of covid. Yet you keep trying to minimize all of that.


so you are ok "killing" someone who is unvaccinated?

wow.
I am completely disgusted.


Ironically, you are minimizing the covid spread by saying that the 10% to 20% are the cause of the vaccinated to get covid.

The vaccinated are spreading covid like wildfire because

1. They represent 80%+ of the population
2. They are not wearing masks
3. They are social distancing
4. They are going to each other's homes
5. They are not staying home when they feel sick
6. They are not hand sanitizing/washing their hands properly


Most of the people I know who are unvaccinated don't want covid and haven't gotten it because they take basic steps to not get it. They also don't want the stuff in the vaccine for medical, out of fear, or religious beliefs.

there is only a small % of people who refuse to get it because they are "insert adult words"


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
80% of the country is not "fully" vaccinated. It's actually just less than two thirds. And no, I'm not good with killing the unvaccinated. That's why I keep railing for stupid people to get the vaccine.

And no, most unvaccinated aren't taking precautions. They say crazy things like, it's a hoax. the numbers aren't real and call it political. If what you said were true they would take the best common sense precaution there is, getting the vaccine. My entire family including children and grandchildren are all vaccinated and wear masks out in public.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
80% of the country is not "fully" vaccinated. It's actually just less than two thirds

about 80% have 1 shot and 90% of those will or are getting their second shot. (who can get it)


We should probably do a better job speaking to the African American community only 10% have gotten at a shot and represent about 14% of the population

so, that is about 12% of your 20% right there.

throw in Hispanic and Asian, that is 75% of those who are not vaccinated.



in a few days... the CDC will come out and say they have miscounted the people who have the shot and will lower it by like 10-20% because they want to blame the unvaccinated vs those who are vaccinated and being careless.


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Why am i not surprised you are trying to make it a racial issue rather than a vaccine issue? But since I'm not a trying to portray a pandemic by sowing racial division.....

The Red/Blue Divide in COVID-19 Vaccination Rates

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covid-19-vaccination-rates/

Americans who relied most on Trump for COVID-19 news among least likely to be vaccinated

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...ews-among-least-likely-to-be-vaccinated/

The Covid-19 vaccination map looks almost exactly like the election map

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/politics/covid-vaccine-election-map-what-matters/index.html

Counties That Voted For Trump Still Lag Far Behind In Vaccinations — With 13% Fewer Vaccinated

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...ith-13-fewer-vaccinated/?sh=17b699be69d1

And relying on old data rather than keep up with newer trends may help you. But once you get the answer you want, why look any further, right?

Blacks’ vaccination rates rise as many overcome hesitancy, obstacles

http://www.georgiahealthnews.com/2021/10/blacks-vaccination-rates-rise-overcome-hesitancy/


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Originally Posted by superbowldogg

in a few days... the CDC will come out and say they have miscounted the people who have the shot and will lower it by like 10-20% because they want to blame the unvaccinated vs those who are vaccinated and being careless.

rofl

The gift if ESP must be wonderful!


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Why am i not surprised you are trying to make it a racial issue rather than a vaccine issue? But since I'm not a trying to portray a pandemic by sowing racial division.....

because people are trying to make a political issue and it's not.

Race is a factor and avoiding it because it doesn't meet a tv station's agenda is foolish. Unless, 70-90% of the African, Hispanic, and Asian community all of sudden are "trump supporters"...

If that were the case, there would be a huge issue with whom voted for who and "trump supporters" should be up in arms about the election


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
please hold.. the data from kff is messed up (who has been the leader of keeping this data accurate)

here is what they are saying



As of December 13, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 70% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (58%), 10% were Black, 19% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native (AIAN), and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander (NHOPI), while 6% reported multiple or other race. White people make up a smaller share of people who have received at least one dose (58%) and people who have recently received a vaccination (50%) compared to their share of the total population (61%). The same pattern is observed among Black people, who make up 10% of people who have received at least one dose and 11% of those recently vaccinated, compared to 12% of the population. In contrast, Hispanic people make up a larger share of vaccinated people (19%) and people who recently received a vaccination (23%) compared to their share of the total population (17%). The share of vaccinated people who are Asian is proportionate to their share of the total population (both 6%), while they make up a higher share (9%) of people initiating vaccination in the last 14 days. (Figure 1).

I'll do math later but, my numbers may be off by 6%


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
So you are just going to ignore that the trend all across the country shows lower vaccination rates in areas where Trump did well in the election. No surprise there. You would rather focus on race.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

#gmstrong
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,134
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,134
j/c...

Man, Omicron is going crazy. Just anecdotal, but I've known more people to have covid over the past month than in the entire covid saga, I know that's not all omicron, but it's getting bad in my circle of friends and family.

Our family tested Thanksgiving morning before we all got together as a precaution, we we're all negative. We planned on doing the same for Christmas... those plans ended a few hours ago when my BIL tested positive. Sucks because a bunch of us were together, impromptu, when they stopped by mom and dads house on Sunday. Waiting to test myself, no symptoms, but had also planned on seeing my grandchildren Christmas Eve and feel like that may be a bad idea either way.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So you are just going to ignore that the trend all across the country shows lower vaccination rates in areas where Trump did well in the election. No surprise there. You would rather focus on race.


only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
O
OCD Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
Same here. Had another death in the family last week. This time it was my cousin and his wife blamed the vaccine. Apparently, he had just had his first dose that week, then died in his sleep at 60. But he also had a history of brain tumors and neglected his own health to be with his wife while she fought cancer. He said he was going for another scan, thinking something was up again, just before she got diagnosed, and that is the last we ever heard about it. So I highly doubt it had anything to do with covid or the vaccine, but since his wife said that, I thought I'd share. Both Trump supporters and vets. She went full on Trump lemming, though. He still talked to the libs in the family, she moved to Parler…

But cases are way up here and less than 5% wearing mask in any stores or restaurants, social distancing, or remotely acting like it is rampant. Most just trying to forget Covid-19. We even had a scare in my home this week with my wife's mom. She was tested yesterday, after feeling ill for the second day in a row. At 86, she has COPD, is on oxygen, and is scared to death she'll get it. She is full vaccinated with the booster too, but still very nervous about being exposed at all.

So I'm trying to get back in the habit of those covid routines we've all grown to love, while watching everyone in town do nothing to fight it at all. I really feel like, “what's the use?”, this thing is so contagious, I'm not saving anybody around here with those routines. This thing is going to be unbearably bad over the next couple of months. I'm sorry for those still fighting getting vaccinated over politics and lies. Think many people are about to die needlessly. Again. This time, I think we are going to see the highest death rates since Covid-19 began, for at least a month or two. And I can't believe how this thing is spreading. Biden's team should have got on that and done a lot MORE warning people, IMO. However, the overall effort and leadership of Biden as it relates to handling the pandemic has been better than I expected, given the situation he inherited. We all have to admit that Trump set that bar LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWW.

And I think now would be a good time to tell everybody, stay safe and aware for the next few months. Please get the vaccines. Please help us combat this bug. The next mutation might be the one that our technology can't take out. Seeing how much more contagious this one is, imagine the next one more contagious and more lethal on the same scale. This isn't about politics, this is about your humanity. Please pitch in and help.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 12/21/21 11:55 PM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Sorry for your loss. Prayers for your family.


No Craps Given
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
O
OCD Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
Thanks, Eve.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,134
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,134
Man, I'm sorry to hear that bro. Scary times. We had the same thing here. Wife's aunt and uncle... full-blown "chips in the vaccine" Trumpsters to the n'th degree. Sick for over two weeks, he got bad, they were turned away from hospital because they already had covid for so long and oxygen levels were acceptable. Two days later, aunt, who had been breezing along got thrush and was to the point where she couldn't breath. Got to the hospital with oxygen saturation at 76. Out in two days but that close to death... Yelling at each other "why didn't we get the vaccine?!?"

I started wearing my mask again a few weeks ago. Doesn't matter though, no one else will unless it's "ordered" (and no, I'm not patting myself on the back, it's just confusing). I went shopping Saturday, Wal-mart, terrible idea... at least 300 people in the store. You know the only difference between that late-season shopping trip and any other, pre covid? There just happened to be 10 or 12 "freaks" with masks on. If you were to step back in time, that would be your impression. I don't get it.

We ripped the masks off when everyone got vaccinated and the numbers started falling... Now numbers are exploding, vaccine does nothing to fight this variant, no masks, no mask mandates. I guess we'll all be good when we get our free test in the mail next month though. thumbsup

I'm having a real hard time keeping any faith in humanity.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,902
P
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,902
Keep the mask on. Screw what anyone says, or any look they may give you. Protect yourself. Let the rest get their Darwin awards.
I wore a mask weeks before they started showing up on other’s faces. I wear one for work daily. I wear one shopping. I have another shipment of KN95s in route for daily use. If I catch this virus it won’t be because I let my guard down.
Stay diligent.

Sorry to those that continue to suffer losses.
Get vaccinated. Stay masked. Don’t allow yourself to become a statistic.

Good luck out there everyone.


[Linked Image]
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,275
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,275

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So you are just going to ignore that the trend all across the country shows lower vaccination rates in areas where Trump did well in the election. No surprise there. You would rather focus on race.


only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.

Yet you have no factual data to support that. So your opinion equals data?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Very sorry to hear about your loss OCD. So many deaths and losses to countless families. Much of it preventable. That's the saddest part of it all.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,902
P
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So you are just going to ignore that the trend all across the country shows lower vaccination rates in areas where Trump did well in the election. No surprise there. You would rather focus on race.


only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.

You’ll have that when the vast majority of people are vaccinated.
You know what else? The vast majority of people that have car accidents own cars. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhocking isn’t it!!

The vast majority of those with bad COVID outcomes are those that aren’t vaccinated. Period. Take your failed arguments elsewhere.


[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,170
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,170
Quote
only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.


This is a silly argument to keep hammering home, imo. From the start, we've been told that the vaccine's efficacy lies in preventing serious physical symptoms resulting in hospitalization and/or death. We've (all of us, that is) never been told any different by the CDC, Fauci or any other reputable source. My wife and I have been continuous mask-wearers since Delta began because we knew we could be asymptomatic disease vectors, even though we both are vaxed/boosted. So your point, as far as practicality is concerned, is moot. The main point is that unvaxed people will die much more readily than those with protection.That is the only relevant point that need be made.

The rest of this is pointless posturing for argument's sake only.


"too many notes, not enough music-"

#GMStong
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,279
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,279
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/21/health/covid-monoclonal-antibodies-omicron.html

I found the latter half of this article fascinating (the part about why the 1 MCA treatment still works).


"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"

-Ballpeen
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Quote
only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.


This is a silly argument to keep hammering home, imo.

it's not when Pit keeps attempting to blame the trump supporters/unvaccinated for the transmission of covid.


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,925
A
Legend
Offline
Legend
A
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,925
We're all worried about covid. Sooga, my daughter, has been working at Toledo Hospital. (she's off school this semester, as she's basically a year ahead of where she should be)

Saw tonight the Ohio national guard is being deployed to where works. Toledo hospital. Just for support, as i take it.

Her room mate tested positive, so I thought Sooga would be here, home, for whatever time. Drive the hour or just less to work. Well, her room mate went to her boyfriends home, so Sooga can be at the apartment.

Man, I'm just torn up................

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,156
S
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
S
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,156
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Quote
only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.


This is a silly argument to keep hammering home, imo. From the start, we've been told that the vaccine's efficacy lies in preventing serious physical symptoms resulting in hospitalization and/or death. We've (all of us, that is) never been told any different by the CDC, Fauci or any other reputable source. My wife and I have been continuous mask-wearers since Delta began because we knew we could be asymptomatic disease vectors, even though we both are vaxed/boosted. So your point, as far as practicality is concerned, is moot. The main point is that unvaxed people will die much more readily than those with protection.That is the only relevant point that need be made.

The rest of this is pointless posturing for argument's sake only.


It keeps getting brought up because people keep blaming the continued spread on unvaccinated people. They ignore the fact vaccinated people spread the viruses too. I see comments like this every day:
Quote
We need policies that bar the unvaccinated from places where they can infect others


Vaccinated people spread the virus too, so why doesn't anyone talk about barring vaccinated people from public places to stop the spread? If the goal is to really slow the spread of covid, I would thinking stopping all vectors would be important.


It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
O
OCD Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
Uncounted: Inaccurate death certificates across the country hide the true toll of COVID-19

In some counties, just half of the spike in deaths during the pandemic is attributed to COVID-19. Researchers say that points to a massive undercount.

The Documenting COVID-19 project and USA TODAY Network, USA TODAY
Published 4:00 AM EST Dec. 22, 2021 Updated 3:05 PM EST Dec. 22, 2021

Quote
By Dillon Bergin, Betsy Ladyzhets, Jake Kincaid and Derek Kravitz, Brown Institute for Media Innovation and MuckRock’s Documenting COVID-19 project; Sarah Haselhorst, The Clarion-Ledger; Ashley White and Andrew Capps, The Daily Advertiser; Rudi Keller, The Missouri Independent; Nada Hassanein, USA TODAY

In late January, the official death toll from COVID-19 in Lafayette Parish, Louisiana, stood at 210.

At a makeshift memorial at a local Episcopal church, friends and relatives planted small, white flags representing how many people had died. Some inscribed flags with the names of those they had lost.

But a couple hundred flags were missing. Those people almost certainly died from COVID-19, according to an examination of newly released data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, but their death certificates don’t mention it. Instead, they list conditions with symptoms that look a lot like COVID-19, such as Alzheimer’s disease, hypertension and diabetes.

Nationwide, nearly 1 million more Americans have died in 2020 and 2021 than in normal, pre-pandemic years, but about 800,000 deaths have been officially attributed to COVID-19, according to the CDC data. A majority of those additional 195,000 deaths are unidentified COVID-19 cases, public health experts have long suggested, pointing to the unusual increase in deaths from natural causes.

An investigation by Documenting COVID-19, the USA TODAY Network and experts reveals why so many deaths have gone uncounted: After overwhelming the nation’s health care system, the coronavirus evaded its antiquated, decentralized system of investigating and recording deaths.

Short-staffed, undertrained and overworked coroners and medical examiners took families at their word when they called to report the death of a relative at home. Coroners and medical examiners didn’t review medical histories or order tests to look for COVID-19. They and even some physicians attributed deaths to inaccurate and nonspecific causes that are meaningless to pathologists. In some cases, stringent rules for attributing a death to COVID-19 created obstacles for relatives of the deceased and contradicted CDC guidance.

These trends are clear in small cities and rural areas with less access to healthcare and fewer physicians. They’re especially pronounced in rural areas of the South and Western United States, areas that heavily voted for former President Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election.

Lafayette Parish, Louisiana; Hinds and Rankin counties in Mississippi; and Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, are four of the 10 counties with the greatest spike in deaths not attributed to COVID-19. In those communities, official COVID-19 deaths account for just half of the increase in deaths in 2020.

If official figures are to be believed, in Lafayette Parish deaths at home from heart disease increased by 20% from 2019 to 2020. Deaths from hypertensive heart disease, or heart ailments due to high blood pressure, doubled and are on track to remain that high in 2021.

These sudden, unexplained jumps in deaths at home – from diseases with symptoms similar to COVID-19 – point to a substantial undercount of the pandemic’s toll, said Andrew Stokes, a professor in the Department of Global Health at the Boston University School of Public Health.

Lafayette Parish’s chief death investigator, Keith Talamo, acknowledged that most people who die at home are pronounced dead over the phone. He said his office lacks the resources to test every death for COVID-19. And, in a significant departure from widely accepted death investigation practices, Talamo said he typically writes down “what the families tell us” and doesn’t push further.

In and around Jackson, Mississippi, deaths from heart attacks at home doubled in 2020 and are on pace to hit a similar level in 2021. The Rankin County coroner said he wrestles with family members who first argue against citing COVID-19 on death certificates, then reverse course when they learn that the federal government pays for burials of people who die from the coronavirus.

And in Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, coroner Wavis Jordan said his office “doesn’t do COVID deaths.” Jordan does not investigate deaths himself. He requires families to provide proof of a positive COVID-19 test before including it on a death certificate.

So far in 2021, he hasn’t pronounced a single person dead from COVID-19 in the 80,000-person county.

Errors on death certificate errors aren’t limited to COVID-19. For example, the CDC puts the number of drug- and alcohol-induced deaths in Maryland 21% higher in 2020 than state figures. Nearly a third of all deaths in the U.S. from “senility” in 2020 and 2021 were registered in four counties in and around Tampa, Florida. The regional medical examiner said his office isn’t responsible.

The nation’s struggle with recording COVID-19 fatalities underscores a truism about death in the United States: Where people live and die has a lot to do with the accuracy of their death certificate. Some deaths are investigated with state-of-the-art technology and expertise. Others don’t go beyond a phone call from the family.

"Our death investigation system urgently needs both oversight and standardization of training and procedures," Stokes said. "It's hampered our ability to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic, and leaves us unprepared for future public health emergencies."

When people die, their death and its causes must be certified and registered according to state laws. A death certificate is the last legal document someone leaves behind, and one of the most important. But they can be as unreliable as they are essential.

In Lafayette Parish, COVID-19 was listed as the underlying cause of death in just 134 fatalities in 2020, even though there were 419 “excess deaths” – the number of deaths that exceed a normal, pre-pandemic year. The gap between these two numbers means hundreds more people likely died of COVID, researchers say.

Meanwhile, deaths attributed to diseases that are often tied to COVID-19 increased. Deaths at home from hypertensive heart disease, diabetes and Alzheimer’s all increased 30% or more in 2020. Those deaths, especially those that weren’t properly investigated,make up at least some of Lafayette’s missing COVID deaths, according to experts.

Especially concerning are deaths in the community attributed to nonspecific causes, known as “garbage codes.” For example, 40 people in the parish who died at home since 2020 have been certified as dead of “heart failure, unspecified.”

“If a clinician is certifying a death this way because they truly do not know what caused the death, they should get an autopsy to find out,” said Dr. James Gill, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners and Connecticut’s chief medical examiner.

Heart failure, cardiac arrest and senility are all garbage codes. They should rarely, if ever, be cited as an underlying cause of death, said Gill, who reviewed causes of death listed on death certificates during the pandemic.

These three codes appear more frequently on death certificates in places with the largest jumps in deaths not attributed to COVID-19.

Talamo, Lafayette Parish’s chief medicolegal investigator, said he doesn’t think COVID-19 deaths are going uncounted, instead blaming suicides or drug overdoses.

But the CDC data, collected from his own office, and data he provided the Documenting COVID-19 project undercuts that. In 2020, deaths from accidents, homicides, suicides and drug overdoses exceeded the prior year by 45. Deaths attributed to natural causes jumped by 260.

Stay connected: Subscribe to Coronavirus Watch, your daily update on all things COVID-19 in the USA

Coronavirus Facebook group: Come together and share the latest information about coronavirus, coping with lifestyle changes and more

Talamo, a full-time, trained death investigator, said he checks with a state registry to see if people who died had a positive COVID-19 test. If so, he includes COVID-19 on the death certificate.

But he’s the only full-time employee in the coroner’s office in Lafayette Parish, one of the largest in the state. His office handles a lot of deaths at home, and most are pronounced dead over the phone.

“We don't have the infrastructure to go and check everybody for COVID,” Talamo said. He acknowledges that, because of a lack of testing, his office likely missed COVID-19 deaths that could’ve been identified with enough time and resources.

Ken Odinet, the Lafayette Parish coroner who was reelected as a Republican in 2019 and oversees the office, said he thinks the current system of confirming COVID-19 deaths works.

William Clark, the East Baton Rouge Parish coroner and the president of the Louisiana State Coroners Association, said he has three requirements in order to put COVID-19 on a death certificate: The patient must have shown symptoms of respiratory illness, tested positive for the coronavirus and died of the respiratory illness.

Many families, he said, simply didn’t want their loved ones to be pronounced dead from the coronavirus.

“In 2020, getting COVID, or dying from COVID, or being a family member that had COVID, was a scarlet letter,” he said. “It was shunned.”

Limited testing in 2020 could account for some uncounted COVID-19 deaths, Clark said. And many people were hesitant to get tested.

“I can recall a guy who had COVID symptoms; his X-ray looked like COVID because I saw it. And the guy says, ‘You're not sticking a swab in my nose,’ and he died a few days later. That guy had COVID, but I didn't call it COVID,” Clark said. “He was not given a postmortem test. After he died, I think he still has a right to those wishes.”

Clark is wrong, according to the CDC, which tells coroners they can attribute a death to COVID-19 even without a positive test, as long as they use their “best clinical judgment.”

The coroner defended his reasoning, saying CDC guidelines are “just that – guidelines. They are not laws.” He said many families want COVID-19 listed on death certificates for financial reasons. “The number of phone calls we receive weekly in an attempt to defraud the government is astounding,” he said.

Statewide, 4,644 of the spike in deaths during the pandemic were not attributed to COVID-19, according to the CDC.

A spokesperson for the Louisiana Department of Health acknowledged the gap. Deaths at home "do make up a substantial portion of the overall non-COVID-19 increase," Kevin Litten wrote in an email.

Still, Litten wrote, it’s difficult to know whether deaths at home increased because people died from the virus or because they avoided hospitals and died of something unrelated.

After another long day in November, David Ruth, the elected county coroner in Rankin County, Mississippi, counted how many calls he had gotten on his cell phone that day: 74.

Ruth, elected as a Republican in 2015 after more than three decades as a police officer, never could’ve planned for the change that 2020 would bring to his job. He once prided himself on posting his cell phone number on the government website; now he has more calls than he can answer.

“No one wants to be a coroner,” Ruth said.

Coroners are one part of the patchwork system of death investigations in the United States. When people die in a hospital or health care facility, a physician usually reviews their medical history to determine the cause of death. When someone dies at home or in an accident before being brought to a hospital, a medical examiner or coroner like Ruth investigates and determines the underlying cause of death.

Rankin County lost 140 people to COVID-19 in 2020. But deaths surged by an additional 209 compared to a typical year.

Deaths in Hinds County, which neighbors Rankin and is home to most of the city of Jackson, mirror the trend. Official COVID-19 deaths account for just half of the spike in deaths in 2020.

The Hinds County coroner, Sharon Grisham-Stewart, did not respond to requests for comment.

Some families have told Ruth they don’t believe in COVID-19 and don’t want it on death certificates. Others have said they want people to know the virus’ death toll.

He said he’s even been confused by inconsistencies between his office’s death figures and those reported by the county health department.

“It got to the point the health department was reporting one number and I was like, ‘I don’t know where they got that number.’ Sometimes it was more, sometimes it was less,” he said.

Mississippi has the country’s highest COVID-19 death rate, with 1 in 285 people dead from the disease. But in September 2020, State Health Officer Dr. Thomas Dobbs said the death toll of about 2,700 at the time was “almost certainly” low.

The state also saw some of the nation’s highest increases in deaths attributed to natural causes, especially heart and lung disease, from 2019 to 2020, according to CDC data. Deaths from Alzheimer’s, hypertensive heart diseases and dementia all increased about 20% or more.

These increases may be key to understanding which COVID-19 deaths were misclassified.

“COVID-19 can mimic an awful lot of diseases,” said Dr. Marinelle Payton, a physician and professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at Jackson State University and director of the university’s Center of Excellence in Minority Health and Health Disparities.

“In a state like Mississippi that has low economic resources, those resources are not going to be utilized for testing people that have already died,” she said.

Early in the pandemic, COVID-19 overwhelmed health care facilities, leading to reporting errors.

“As someone who has been in the hospital in the middle of the night and who has had to fill out a death certificate, I can tell you that it is sometimes difficult to rely upon what is written regarding cause of death,” said Dr. Lionel Fraser, Central Mississippi Health Services’ chief medical officer.

“Now consider what happens with deaths at home without the resources of a chart, history or diagnostic tests,” he said. “Errors may occur and these data may be skewed.”

A combination of fear and misinformation compounded Mississippi’s problem with access to health care, said Dr. Paul Burns, a social epidemiologist and professor of population health at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. In Hinds County, 26% of residents live below the poverty line and 15% are uninsured, both well above the national average. The county is 73% Black.

“Even before the pandemic, communities of color had concerns about whether or not the health care system was really addressing their needs,” Burns said.

Payton said she’s familiar with inaccurate death certificates not just as a physician or a professor, but as a family member. When her sister died recently, Payton realized the death certificate was wrong.

“I was absolutely outraged. Because none of the things on her death certificate was her cause of death,” Payton said. Over the years, “the same thing happened with my mother, my father, and my brother. All of their death certificates are incorrect.”

The Mississippi State Department of Health said in an October advisory that it “has been aware of mortality increases that exceed COVID deaths.”

When presented with findings from the CDC data about increases in deaths at home, especially from heart and lung disease, department spokesperson Liz Sharlot said in a written statement: “We don’t have sufficient information to answer these questions. It would take a lot of speculation and that is all it would be – speculation."

In Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, the coroner has not pronounced a single person dead of COVID-19 in 2021. “When it comes to COVID, we don’t do a test, so we don’t know if someone has COVID or not,” said Jordan, the coroner.

The 113 deaths officially blamed on COVID-19 in 2020 account for just half of the county’s 226 excess deaths that year.

Meanwhile, deaths at home attributed to heart attacks, Alzheimer’s and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease increased. In 2020 and 2021, death certificates say 35 people died of “cardiac arrest” or “cardiac arrhythmia,” both of which are garbage codes.

Jordan, a Republican who took office in 2021, had no medical training or experience handling the dead before his election. In an interview, Jordan said he requires families to provide proof of a COVID-19 diagnosis before he puts it on a death certificate. That goes against accepted CDC practice that allows those signing death certificates to take into account symptoms of the virus and the patient’s medical history.

“You know, I have to go by what the family says,” Jordan said. “The family can tell me all they want that this person had COVID, but I just can’t put it on there unless I have some type of proof.”

Finding that proof is supposed to be the job of death investigators like Jordan. The official guidance that the CDC has given coroners is not to rely on families, but to investigate each case to the best of their ability with all the tools they have.

The CDC even tells coroners they can certify COVID-19 as the cause of death without a positive test when there’s strong reason to believe that the person died of COVID, such as deaths during nursing home outbreaks in which everyone wasn’t tested before they died.

A spokesperson from the Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services, Lisa Cox, said the department is aware of an increase in deaths beyond those tied to COVID-19. She said the agency follows CDC guidance for death reporting and makes that guidance available to localities.

Other Missouri counties with coroners describe a very different process than the one in Cape Girardeau. Across the state in Buchanan County, a review of a patient’s medical file, or a chart review, is performed for every death. If the death is unattended – such as a death at home with no one else around – and it’s unclear why they died, the body is sent to a forensic pathologist in Kansas City for a full autopsy.

“We don’t reach out to family and find out,” said Richard Shelton, a medical investigator for the Buchanan County Medical Examiner. “We want to make an outside, independent investigation.”

The training, expertise and resources of the people who sign death certificates in one county can be wildly different from the county next door. Some states have coroners in each county; others have a statewide medical examiner’s office. And some, like Missouri, have a mix of both systems.

A third of Americans are served by coroners, who typically work in rural areas and smaller cities – often on low pay and with little resources. Just 14% of coroner’s offices in the country are accredited by one of two national groups, according to a recent Department of Justice report. On average, a coroner's salary ranges from $17,000 to $38,000 a year, while experienced medical examiners and trained forensic pathologists in urban areas make two to 10 times more.

Medical examiners are appointed while coroners are usually elected, which can come with political pressure.

“It really comes down to the resources available to the office,” said Dr. Bob Anderson, the chief of mortality statistics at the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics. “Particularly early in the pandemic, a lot of the medical examiner/coroner offices didn't have tests for postmortem. So they had to make assumptions based on the available information.”

To a lesser degree, some elected coroners – lacking formal training or clear guidance on how to determine cause of death – let politics dictate their decision-making.

Last summer, Documenting COVID-19 reported on a coroner in Macon County, Missouri, who said he left COVID-19 off at least a half-dozen death certificates when another major factor could be justified as the sole cause of death.

“There is no standardized training in the United States to do it right,” said Ali Mokdad, a professor of health at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

When asked whether the CDC should provide medical examiners and coroners with clearer guidelines to standardize death certificate reporting, Anderson said the CDC works with state vital records offices, not counties. He deferred to national professional organizations and the professional opinion of individual medical examiners.

“We're a statistical outfit,” Anderson said. “We can't very well go around telling medical examiners and coroners – knowing that they don't report to the federal government in any way – telling them how to do their jobs.”

Mokad, who worked as a senior epidemiologist at the CDC, disagrees. “The CDC can do better. Let's be realistic. ... The CDC tells every state, every county, it has to do certain things. So why stop at the causes of death?”

In Lafayette Parish, the COVID-19 pandemic was handled like a minor inconvenience in the months after the first local cases were reported. Despite recommendations from state and regional public health officials, local authorities largely failed to enforce statewide mask mandates during the 13 months they were in place.

A push for an additional mask mandate in the city of Lafayette in February met with widespread opposition, with more than 2,000 residents calling the city council after the mandate was proposed. The proposal was sponsored by Councilman Glenn Lazard, who was diagnosed with leukemia in 2019.

“Our response to COVID in Lafayette gets an F,” Lazard said. “We basically refused to follow the governor's mandates, saying that it needs to be enforced by the state. We've never enforced the occupancy limits, primarily in nightclubs, and so forth and so on. It was very frustrating and very disappointing.”

Experts say an incomplete picture of the coronavirus’ toll can lead people to take preventative measures less seriously. If communities don’t have accurate data on how many of their residents are dying, they are less likely to wear masks and avoid big groups indoors.

Lazard said he believes his mask mandate would have failed even if the true number of deaths from COVID-19 had been known. “This was turned into a purely political issue, as opposed to a health care issue,” he said.

Enbal Schacham, a professor of public health at Saint Louis University who studies how people respond to information about the virus, said inaccurate death figures contribute to the nation’s struggle to respond.

“Underreporting of COVID deaths actually makes us think that we're not in control of any of it,” Schacham said. “And I do think we are, in effect, choosing not to prevent it.”

Since the beginning of the pandemic, the Documenting COVID-19 project at Columbia University’s Brown Institute for Media Innovation and MuckRock have worked to figure out how public health records and resulting data influences and shapes government policy. Death certificates are among the most influential records.

For this story, journalists from five newsrooms reviewed CDC mortality data at the county level. They compared those figures to models developed by the CDC and a team of demographers at Boston University, collected death certificates and documents and interviewed more than 100 medical examiners, coroners, public health experts, families and policy-makers. The team at Boston University worked with the journalists on this project, providing models of expected deaths in every U.S. county and identifying areas of potential underreporting of COVID-19 deaths.

A full data repository of CDC mortality statistics by state, which will be updated and added to, is available here. We’re also inviting the public to share stories about their experiences with death certificates.

Jennifer Borresen, Janie Haseman and Javier Zarracina contributed to this report

Published 4:00 AM EST Dec. 22, 2021 Updated 3:05 PM EST Dec. 22, 2021

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...naccurate-death-certificates/8899157002/

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,877
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Very sorry to hear about your loss OCD. So many deaths and losses to countless families. Much of it preventable. That's the saddest part of it all.

Well said. My sister was on death’s doorstep with COVID until a couple days ago when it turned around. I have to say that my visceral reactions were obviously fear, worry and sadness, obviously, but there was also a healthy amount of rage.

She refused the vaccine. Her daughter did not and was positive but asymptomatic. I’ll just leave it at that.

All the times I had heard her rage about the vaccine, and the distorted politics and how her rage that her employer was going to increase her health insurance premium contribution if she was unvaccinated.

I hope she sees it now, but you can’t force people to change their minds.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

#gmstrong
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478
On the one hand, I have a hard time taking a newspaper that calls itself 'The Daily Advertiser' seriously. On the other hand, I applaud their honesty.

I will agree with the section of the article that talks about a lot of speculation going on.


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns.
Fiercely Independent.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Three new studies suggest omicron has lower hospitalization risk and is milder than other variants

-“The current studies indicate something really good,” Ralf Reintjes, professor of epidemiology at Hamburg University of Applied Sciences, told CNBC Thursday.

-Research from South Africa suggests that people infected with omicron are 80% less likely to be admitted to hospital than if they contract other strains.

-The authors of the study cautioned that this may be in part due to higher immunity among the population, either as a result of previous infection and/or vaccination.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/23/omi...-of-hospitalization-studies-suggest.html

Follow the Science!

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,429
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,429
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So you are just going to ignore that the trend all across the country shows lower vaccination rates in areas where Trump did well in the election. No surprise there. You would rather focus on race.


only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.

Yet you have no factual data to support that. So your opinion equals data?

I'd like to see some proof of that statement by Superbowldogg... Everything I've read and heard says it's the UNvaccinated that is causing the increase in Covid Cases..


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,134
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,134
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So you are just going to ignore that the trend all across the country shows lower vaccination rates in areas where Trump did well in the election. No surprise there. You would rather focus on race.


only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.

Yet you have no factual data to support that. So your opinion equals data?

I'd like to see some proof of that statement by Superbowldogg... Everything I've read and heard says it's the UNvaccinated that is causing the increase in Covid Cases..
You'd just have to open your eyes and use common sense. In case you're living under a rock, every team in the NFL that reported players with covid (now totalling in the hundreds) said they were ALL vaccinated. But if you're looking for internet articles stating as much, you won't find them. If you do, that publication is probably already #cancelled.

Sometimes science prevails, sometimes narrative prevails, in all those times -- common sense is your friend. wink


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,649
R
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
R
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,649
J/C

I had covid in mid-November this year. No vaccine either. First day or so was head congestion, then the next two days were cold-like symptoms - Coughing, sore throat, etc. I realized something wasn't natural when observing the amount of mucous I was coughing up. - Sorry to gross everybody out, but it was a lot. I got tested about 3 days into having symptoms and, needless to say, it came back positive. After the cold like symptoms went away, the respiratory issues were too much to ignore. - Think back to when you were a kid and stayed in the swimming pool too long - how your lungs felt the next day. - That was about 3-4 days. If I were a tad older, a tad heavier, or would have been born with any respiratory issues, there is no doubt I would've been in the hospital or worse.-- While the respiratory issues were lingering, exhaustion set in. I couldn't move without having to lie back down. I didn't eat much either. - For me it was a solid 8 days of this and then I started moving around and got back in the swing of things. My advice to everybody is to get vaccinated, and if you have a loved one with any sort of respiratory issue, keep them in the house.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Quote
only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.


This is a silly argument to keep hammering home, imo.

it's not when Pit keeps attempting to blame the trump supporters/unvaccinated for the transmission of covid.

I blame the unvaccinated for overwhelming our hospitals and being 90% of Covid deaths. I didn't "blame" the unvaccinated for being the only ones spreading the disease. All I did was ask you to show evidence by a relaible source of you claim that they are causing the majority of the spread. And you still haven't.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
O
OCD Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
Originally Posted by 40YEARSWAITING
Three new studies suggest omicron has lower hospitalization risk and is milder than other variants

-“The current studies indicate something really good,” Ralf Reintjes, professor of epidemiology at Hamburg University of Applied Sciences, told CNBC Thursday.

-Research from South Africa suggests that people infected with omicron are 80% less likely to be admitted to hospital than if they contract other strains.

-The authors of the study cautioned that this may be in part due to higher immunity among the population, either as a result of previous infection and/or vaccination.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/23/omi...-of-hospitalization-studies-suggest.html

Follow the Science!

Omicron more likely to reinfect than Delta, no milder -study

Dec 17 (Reuters) - The risk of reinfection with the Omicron coronavirus variant is more than five times higher and it has shown no sign of being milder than Delta, a study showed, as cases soar across Europe and threaten year-end festivities.

The results of the study by Imperial College London were based on UK Health Security Agency and National Health Service data on people who tested positive for COVID-19 in a PCR test in England between Nov. 29 and Dec. 11.

"We find no evidence (for both risk of hospitalisation attendance and symptom status) of Omicron having different severity from Delta," the study said, although it added that data on hospitalisations remains very limited.

"Controlling for vaccine status, age, sex, ethnicity, asymptomatic status, region and specimen date, Omicron was associated with a 5.4-fold higher risk of reinfection compared with Delta," the study, which was dated Dec. 16, added.

The protection afforded by past infection against reinfection with Omicron may be as low as 19%, Imperial College (ICL) said in a statement, noting that the study had not yet been peer reviewed.

The researchers found a significantly increased risk of developing a symptomatic Omicron case compared to Delta for those who were two or more weeks past their second vaccine dose, and two or more weeks past their booster dose.

The study involved AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines.

Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose.

"This study provides further evidence of the very substantial extent to which Omicron can evade prior immunity given by both infection or vaccination," study lead Professor Neil Ferguson said in ICL's statement.

"This level of immune evasion means that Omicron poses a major, imminent threat to public health."

TOO EARLY?

But Dr Clive Dix, former Chair of the UK Vaccine Taskforce, said it was important not to overinterpret the data.

"The conclusions made are based on making assumptions about Omicron where we still don't have sufficient data," Dr Dix said. "For example, we have no data on the cellular immune response which is now probably driving effectiveness of vaccines."

"This is a crucial missing assumption in the modelling."

Some of the conclusions are different to the data emerging from South Africa, where vaccines are holding up well against severe disease and death at present, he said.

"There is a huge amount of uncertainty in these modelled estimates and we can only be confident about the impact of boosters against Omicron when we have another month of real-world data on hospitalisation ICU numbers and deaths," he said.

An earlier study by Britain's SIREN looking at reinfection risk in health workers, which was carried out before Omicron emerged, found that a first coronavirus infection offered 85% protection from a second for the following six months.

The data analysed by Imperial College was based on 333,000 cases, including 122,062 of Delta and 1,846 which were confirmed as the Omicron coronavirus variant through genome sequencing.

Imperial College's Professor Azra Ghani, who co-led the study, described it as "essential for modelling the likely future trajectory of the Omicron wave and the potential impact of vaccination and other public health interventions."

The new findings could accelerate the imposition of tighter restrictions across a number of European countries in a bid to stem the new variant's spread.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...infect-than-delta-study-says-2021-12-17/

There seems to be discrepancies between these studies.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
The fact is that if even if Omicron has a lower hospitalization rate and is less deadly in overall numbers, that isn't going to change the fact that it's even far more contagious than the previous strains. With far more people contracting Omicron than the other strains, the fact it is less deadly overall could easily be offset by the increase in the amount of cases.

There certainly have been conflicting reports about that as you pointed out.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,495
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Quote
only if you don't ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who are getting/spreading covid are those who are vaccinated.


This is a silly argument to keep hammering home, imo.

it's not when Pit keeps attempting to blame the trump supporters/unvaccinated for the transmission of covid.

All I did was ask you to show evidence by a relaible source of you claim that they are causing the majority of the spread. And you still haven't.

common sense / deductive reasoning / logic / math / science

If 100% of the Browns players who have covid are vaccinated how do you think that spread?


baby Jesus?


Meh.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
O
OCD Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,788
And I don't think people like 40, or his ilk, should take fake comfort in the reports that it is “milder”, when or if it is actually killing just as many as the Delta variant. If you had a case and your odds of not being hospitalized were 50/50, would you report that you have a 50% chance of being hospitalized or a 50% chance of not being hospitalized. They sound similar but are not the same. These reports need to be more specific, so people don't use them as an excuse that may eventually kill them.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
So that means you have proof on a national level? Still no scientific evidence I see.....

And let me ask you before you continue with your anecdotal evidence charade, do you mean the total number of cases or do you mean per capita? Because if two thirds of people are vaccinated that would mean that for cases to be spread evenly among both groups, the vaccinated would have to spread two thirds of the cases to give an equal gauge of cases spread per group. But so far all you've given is, "Yeah but look over here!"

So either come up with some actual proof or stop trying to blame me because you don't have any. Claiming the vaccinated are just as likely to spread it may be your best argument and we may find agreement.

Now Omicron may change all of this. We'll have to wait and see on that.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,248
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
common sense / deductive reasoning / logic / math / science

If 100% of the Browns players who have covid are vaccinated how do you think that spread?


baby Jesus?

Let's break this down just a little bit, shall we?

There are 32 teams in the NFL. Each team has 53 players on the active roster. That's a total of 1696 players. Across the NFL last week there were approximately 100 players infected with Covid. Now if you have a total for the season please let me know. What percentage of Covid cases have actually been spread among that number of vaccinated players? Now keep in mind, not all players are vaccinated.

Given the actual numbers you may wish to reconsider that "common sense / deductive reasoning / logic / math / science" thing you posted.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Page 6 of 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid Continues-Part 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5