DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 22 Packers 24 Post game.

He had a chance today and it was stolen form him by a non call.
The refs stole this game in the last 2 minutes.

I don't post on here very often mostly just read, but I am so sick of this team making the same mistakes over and over. Yes the refs did steal the game due to a non PI call. Aikman even said it was and all the football shows are saying it was. That would not have even been an issue if Stefanski wouldn't have done like he always does and abandoned the run game. The run game was working and he gave up on it again.

I hope next year if he is still coach he will swallow his pride and turn over play calling to the next OC which I hope isn't Van Pelt. Joe Woods needs to go to. When we put pressure on Rodgers the few times we did he missed the throws. We have lost games from Woods playing soft and letting the other team march down the field for the game winning FG. Speaking of field goals we need to see if Phil Dawson will come our of retirement. Haven't had a good kicker since he left. To many points left out on the field because of them that would have been the difference in winning and losing.

This team has come a long way in the last few years. This team is in most every game. Just need to get to that point where they know how to finish them. The last few years I actually started getting excited to watch them again. I am 70 years old and I would sure like to see them make it to the big game before I leave this world.

I'm sorry, but Baker is 100% not the biggest problem. But let's say we need to get a new QB. Ask yourself if you are Aaron Rodgers would you come here with these receivers? We most likely have the worst receivers in the league and I'm not saying one or two couldn't pan out but today they are the worst. Rodgers doesn't come here unless we bring Adams here as well and that simply isn't happening.

If you believe Baker is the biggest problem In sorry that you're misinformed. We go 1-31, and Baker turns this team around and now everyone wants to get rid of him. How soon we forget 2016 and 2017. For shame.

An average QB has us in first place by a couple games. Stefanski is not the problem.

Maybe we have a red zone play caller? Save Stefanski from himself. I get to watch another tight loss and have the heart taken cleanly out of my chest again. But Baker lowered the bar by himself. I believe we had a shot, but the drive with multiple penalties (suddenly the refs are involved in 4th again smh) and taking two sacks AND making me listen to Aikman's drivel telling us what we have to do was painful. Browns fans got their stockings stuffed today.

A QB needs to make the people around him better. Today, Baker played poorly enough to do the opposite. Dropped balls, picks, more dropped balls, FLAGS! And we had the run going and left it. Take this offense away from this man, and shop a replacement at QB. Any playoff hope cannot be filtered through these two IMO. We are wasting exaggerated talent. But we don't look good on the field, not even on paper. I am a fan, but how many times must we repeat mistakes while also failing to learn from the. The interviews should be snappy and equally instructive this week. Somebody should be ashamed. Taking the blame is hardly helpful; it is ironic that it is deemed helpful and we will repeat the same grinder again. This has been inspiringly awful.

Facts:

The Browns are 7-8.
Below 500.
In last place in the North.
Currently sitting at #13 in the AFC standings - trailing powerhouses like Denver, Miami and Las Vegas.
We're better than the Jets, Jags and Texans - and that's it.
Baker Mayfield is 2-14 in 1 score games in the 4th quarter.

This team is a loser franchise, with a loser owner, and a loser QB - and the facts show it. And it will continue until we get those right.

To all the Baker knights who will again try to defend him - I actually agree with you that we should keep him for one more year. There's squat to draft and we aren't signing a top FA.

I’m not going to defend Baker’s four interceptions because two of them is 100% on him but we have a QB who’s clearly not healthy enough to deliver his best. It’s there for everyone to see that he can’t even fully lift his left arm when he’s throwing the ball and that affects his throwing motion and injuries like that often take away timing and accuracy. Try to make a serve with a tennis ball or throw a baseball with accuracy without fully lifting your left arm. Come back when it’s done and then tell me it’s’ not affecting you.

Our OLine is banged up and have huge problems keeping the pocket clean. A couple of heavy sacks on a injured QB doesn’t fill him or our play caller with confidence and that combined with almost zero threats on deep balls will off course affect the game plan.

The referees. When they don’t officiate on blatant fouls it will install hesitation and fear on a team who’s low on confidence.The NFL needs to clean this [censored] up because for neutrals mistakes like this make the game experience less enjoyable and unfair.

Kevin Stefanski. Really? His timing on when and how to call critical plays late in the game is often awful, not to mention his lack of fingerspitzengefühle. Supporters often complain about players who make mistakes but how about crazy play calls who clearly affect our results.

We have a really good team when our key players is healthy but without two of our best defensive players, a unhealthy QB without confidence, a banged up OLine, no deep threat in our offense and a confused HC it’s hard to win away games against one of best teams in the league. Not to mention the referees.

Maybe I’m too optimistic but I will not give up yet. Those who believe will be rewarded….

I'll ask again, do you have any confidence Stefanski could coach this team out of 1-3 hole? I'm not disagreeing with your statement above, but Baker isn't the only person on the team that needs everything perfect.

we were running 8 yards a carry and chose to pass and take a sack on 3 consecutive drives

Like the the Raiders game?

Being a Browns fan reminds me of a song from many years ago. "Nothing But A Heartache" by the Flirtations.

My thoughts -

- Good game by Chubb. And Johnson always seems to deliver when he is subbing for Chubb.
- Stewart came to play. JOK with a good game. And Ward.
- You can tell Garrett is still bothered by the injury. He took some heat during the game day chat. When he is playing hurt and obviously not himself, it's just another game where he "disappears." When Baker plays hurt and negatively impacts the team, he is a "warrior."
- When we needed to replace the Hammer because of COVID, we did well. When we replaced our kicker ... not so much. Missed XP which moved us until the ill-fated try for two, which was blown up from the snap.
- So, Baker. I am almost looking forward to the excuses this week. Should make for some good surfing. I did see a bit of that in the game day chat.
- First pick ... yes, a flag could have been thrown on the defense. But DPJ was double-covered. Seeing a WR getting held is not like getting a free play when a DE jumps offside. The excuses that Baker threw the ball because he saw the defensive hold smells like a lame excuse for the QB. He threw it into double coverage. That is never the play. For twenty years people have been saying we never get the calls so you think throwing that pass expecting to get a call makes sense?
- Second pick was a horrible over throw. Maybe Landry's fault for not being 8 feet tall?
- Third pick was a horrible under throw. I have already seen Landry being blamed for this one. LOL. He got past the defender and was open. The ball was under thrown and he had to hit the brakes. That is why he slipped. Not that it mattered, the DB jumped the route and snagged it before it got close to Landry. Landry had zero to do with that pick. There are 30 QBs in the NFL who get a TD on that play.
- The 4th pick ... that was because of the PI. The receiver did not have a chance to get the spot.
- I remember another pick that GB dropped. I have heard there were two but I do not remember the 2nd. Unless that was on the 2-point try.
- The last drive had some promise. The run was working, but to keep the D honest we had to try some passes. I guess I cannot complain about the play calls as the receiver was open on both of those plays. Baker simply missed both throws.
- Remember when we were excited we did not pick Josh Allen because he was so inaccurate? Good times.
- Props to the D. When we needed to stop GB from scoring to give us a chance, we forced punts.
- Greedy with another bad game.

Unlike the Raiders game, the run was working against Green Bay.

All of this. What bothers me is that Baker looked very good as a rookie even when though he threw more INTs than I would have liked. Then his second year was a mess. His third year he actually looked like what we wanted him to be. This year? Is it the injuries? I think that they play a role. He has suddenly become inconsistent. You mentioned his footwork as a problem. He has been making more poor throws than before.

What else can we see that has been a problem? What changed dramatically from last year? Yes, Covid has played a role but every team has been impacted albeit some more than others. Yes, injuries have played a role. I think that Baker’s usage by Stefanski was changed from last year. I could be wrong but it seems that suddenly Stefanski wanted game manager Baker instead of what Baker was last year. I also think that league caught on to Stefanski. Does this mean that we should change coaches? Not necessarily but I think some in-house analysis over the off-season of Stefanski and the staff is very much in order.

Somewhat encouraged watching the game - despite the loss and coming so close:

- In a game most gave us no chance - it came down to a missed extra point and then going for 2 and not getting it.
- Baker played badly - absolutely. Not willing to even begin to think it's time to move on. [1] He was coming off 2 weeks of no practice [2] The first and last interceptions came on plays where pass interference checked the WR. More on the officiating later, but the bear hug and the shirt pull are as much or more to blame for the those two interceptions.
- The idea that been floated around that KS doesn't trust Baker is absurd ... on 4th and 1 early in the game, KS called a pass play. At the end of the game (more later) KS decided Baker was the best chance to get a first down and threw, threw and threw again. Unless KS is sabotaging Baker to make him look bad - KS trusts Baker plenty.
- Defense played one of their best games against an elite offense with significant number of players out. I know we stymied a couple of bad teams early in the year - this performance for me was better. With the exception of the Blitz/Easy TD, it was just solid all round and we had a ton of injuries. You have to factor in we went against one of the top 3 QB in the NFL today and probably in the last 20 years.
- Still issues with too many dropped balls. So funny to see a Packer WR struggle to make a pretty spectacular catch when a Browns DB was draped over him - and how Pissed Rodgers was. And then see our guys have balls hit their hands and drop them.
- Definitely issues with balls thrown behind receivers. Timing off literally 1/2 a second or less. Hard to believe that with a QB coming of Covid and who didn't practice with the team for 2+ weeks. I know, right? Misses none the less and on Baker. And there was another throw of Baker's that could easily of been picked as well. That was probably the worst decision and throw all night, from memory the receiver was possibly triple covered.
- Chubb exploding and showing why he's one of the top 2 or 3 RB's in the NFL. Just a monster. Johnson looking plenty good also. Almost ridiculous for a 3rd string RB.
- Shout out to the OL ... they had a couple spells where the pocket collapsed immediately. But for the hand we were dealt they did more than enough in both pass protection and running game.
- Officiating sucked as bad as any game I remember. Troy Aikman is awful as a commentator. I always feel when he is on for a Browns game he virtually never 'observes' anything for/positive for the Browns. Even he called out 5 egregious calls by the refs. The bear hug on DPJ during the first interception was ridiculous - as was calling a false start when the GB player was offsides and the entire OL didn't move until the ball was snapped ... And the last interception/shirt pull was nearly as bag - certainly blatant. I thought New York could overturn obvious missed calls - especially in the last 2 minutes of the game? wtf.
- I thought KS called one of his best and most balanced games. Clearly it felt like a "must win" game and game seemed to be called accordingly. Right up to the end. 50 seconds left, 2 points behind and 3 time outs. . . . last week we ran 3 times into a 9 man front and I wanted a play action call. This week was totally different in the 4th Q and on the final drive - we were gouging them in the run game. . . . I actually liked the aggressive deep call on the first down, but after that, with the running game averaging over 7 yards a play - 3 time outs, midfield. It was truly incredible to see 3 passes in a row called. I mean if Baker had been on point all game? Maybe. If the run game was getting stuffed? Absolutely. If we needed a TD instead of a FG? Probably not still. On the back of 3 interceptions - miss-timed passes all game - 3 passes. That's just bad coaching and play calling.


- Bottom Line: The team did enough to win - on the road - against one of the best teams in the NFL. We overcame 4 interceptions and 4 or 5 diabolical officiating calls - and we were within 2 points and driving. For all the "Woe is Me, the Browns are totally crap, burn it to the ground" belly aching that I see ... I think that needs to sink in. Baker still is recovering from a torn Labarum, coming off 2 weeks of no practice. We are still decimated by injury. Still cobbling together a make shift OL. . . . I think we are much closer than most want to realize. I think Baker is a no-brainer for a 5th year. And while I think an extension is all about his play next year - I am not giving up on this season either. Lot of football left to be played and other teams that need to win out are going to get hit by Covid too - maybe not like the Browns because precautions are going to get put in place by other teams ... but key players are going to miss games for a lot of teams. Go Browns.

I have 100% confidence in Stefanski.

The phrase “they did enough to win” is BS. They didn’t win so they didn’t do enough to win. And moral victories mean nothing, not this late in the season. Nobody gets to know what would have happened so “if this” or “if that” mean nothing because “if this” and “if that” did not happen.

Baker is an average QB this year so saying we would be in first with an average QB is pointless.

The reality is that the team while hammered by injuries and COVID has not performed. Other teams have injury and COVID issues. There are things going on besides injuries and COVID.

GB was held to 1.5 points less than their average points per game. Their defense allowed .4 points more than they allow per average. The Browns simply did not do enough to win.

As bad as the (2) uncalled PI's and the mis-called False Start on Teller were, I think the worst was the non-call of a facemask committed on Mayfield when he was sacked on 3rd & 14 at the GB 35 yardline with about 10 mins left in the 4th Q. If that gets called, its 1st down at the 20. A FG at that point makes it 24-18, with what followed resulting in a 25-24 lead. I know projections are dangerous, because GB would have played differently with their last possession, but its not hard to imagine the D making the stop (as they did when down 24-22).

In what world is Baker an average QB?

j/c…

That's a good point - the offsides was [1] a non call on a GB infringement that we probably all saw in real time. [2] A phantom call on a player that didn't even flinch before the ball was snapped. . . . And the facemask on Baker - I've seen called for less and multiple officials have to be looking at the QB/tackle as it happens. So yeah - v bad.

The only QBs worse than Baker in QBR this year, before yesterday’s game, are Jared Goff,
Sam Darnold, Trevor Lawrence, Davis Mills, Justin Fields, and Zach Wilson.

He is with a cluster of guys whose rating is in the 80’s to 90’s. Baker, this year, is average. I think a lot has to do with his injuries and dropped balls. That being said look at his game logs last year. He was for half the season a game manager who didn’t turn the ball over. The last half of the year his stats jumped.

There is something going on that we do not know about.

Agreed, but we may never find out

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Rated just above Baker are Goff, Roethlisberger, Jackson, Bridgewater, Heinicke, Jones (can you say coach Bill), Tua and Carr. Which of those guys would you prefer over Baker? Maybe Jackson? Maybe Carr? Beyond that? None of them.

I would say that your 100% confidence in Stefanski seems to fly in the face of your vitriol and commentary on Baker. KS thought an injured Baker was our best option all season even immediately after his shoulder injury/re-injury. KS thought that passing the ball 3 times at the end of the game, and on the back of Bakers form in the rest of the GB game - 3 interceptions, multiple bad passes behind receivers and a pass that should have been another pick - was the best chance to win the game. Something doesn't seem to align with your 100% confidence in KS, your belief that Baker is a bum, and the way KS called the game yesterday.

I was responding to a question about if I was confident in Stefanski to dig out of a 1-3 hole.

j/c

Whenever I read "Baker has to have everything perfect" post, I know what I'm dealing with. Coming to a 1-31 team...head coached by Hue Jackson...not allowed to compete with Tyrod Taylor...coming into his first game cold and breaking the two-year winless streak. That's perfect.

2019 - Freddie Kitchens and being woefully out of shape and prepared. Tom Brafy wasn't going to win with Freddie at the wheel. Neither was out-of-shaoe Baker.

2020 - COVID...drives us to the playoff...WINS A PLAYOFF game. One blown non-call...and one poor play on defense...away from the AFC Championship game. Top (5) QB from the bye to end of season.

2021 - Defense couldn't stop squat against the Chiefs at the end and then Baker tears his labrum and breaks a bone early in game (2). Injuries strike...the OBJ cancer gets cut out...COVID...more injuries...COVID. I mean what a perfect situation for a QB to succeed.

Some posters like to bag on Baker for not being Mr Comeback...and pretend to be completely un-phased by the number of times a last drive comeback was thwarted by someone OTHER than Baker. The TEAM overcame (3) INTS and totally sh^%y officiating throughout and were driving towards a missed FG...and the refs cemented the outcome of the game...again. What a delightfully perfect position to be in.

J/c

Another point that others have made as well: how in the heck do we think LeCounte on Adams with zero help is going to be successful?

yeah, I don’t think we will either. The off-season will be important.

Other than that - which is plenty bad - I thought the D was stellar. But that was a very egregious piece of coaching.

One last comment - I saw a stat about Baker being 2-14 in games where he has the ball in the 4thQ with a chance to win. It was presented as a nail in the coffin sort of stat that is irrefutable that Baker is a loser.

My question/comment is - How many games has Baker led the Browns from behind in the 4thQ - to take the lead with less than 5 minutes left on the clock, only to see the defense give up a game winning drive? . . . . I reckon I can think of at least 4 or 5 games.

Knowing how people hate Baker - I wonder how many of those 14 "Opportunities" were with less than a realistic amount of time and time outs on the clock. I mean getting the ball on your on 25 yard line with no time outs and 30 seconds on the clock needing a TD would statistically be included in that stat ... but the reality is something different.

I realize there is a large contingent of Browns' fans who think its a "loser mentality" to complain about officiating ... sour grapes, whining, agenda regarding a certain QB, whatever. I just want to clarify that I'm just asking them to call games within an 80-90% accuracy range, not looking for any favoritism towards my team. Just do your J-O-B, and call the game fair and square. Because right now, IMO, the NFL has a big problem with their officiating crews and its eroding public trust in their game.

Packers are on our 10 yard line and Woods Blitz's Rogers . He uses stone shoes Taki to do blitz ??? Thas the kind of calls that get me .

In the first quarter alone you had a phantom blockin the back ( never happened ) Flagrant holding on a WR and a face mask on Baker that wasn't called. That's was in the first quarter .

I hate complaining about officials too, but there were so many bad calls and no calls yesterday that were blatantly obvious, even to the announcers, it is becoming a farce..

Re: NFL refs agreed. The refs as a whole are not good. I also think that there are not enough on the field and that there has to be minimum fitness standards. The refs run a lot and far too often are not in a good position to make a call.

All of that being said the refs do not “have it in for the Browns”. While it is possible that something like gambling on games may be going on I think the vast majority are not involved in something illegal or fraudulent. They simply aren’t good enough.

It absolutely is a repeatable skill that requires solid end-of-game coaching and quality QB play... and I don't know that we have either.

Its a team, sport if you can attribute the loses to bad throws ,interceptions or bad decisions by Baker you can lay the blame on Baker. I am pretty sure you cant. Im pretty sure coaching is to blame on many of them as well as many other factors that Baker has no control over. Lets say maybe the refs made a bad call or did not call a penalty. How many of those games can be contributed to getting hosed by the refs. I can think of one it happened yesterday. So that wow stat can easily be unwowed with some examination of other factors out of Bakers control.

Out of the 8 losses we have ,we only got blown away in 2 of them. 23 by Arizona and 38 by the Pats. All the other games we lost by 6 points or less. 1@6 points 2@5, 1@4 and 2@2. This team is getting better just have a few things that need fixed. In my opinion, one is a kicker, a play caller, and a defensive coordinator. We fix those and get all our players back from injury and this covid crap and this team would be hard to beat. Just think about where we were a few years ago. It was depressing to watch the Browns. Now at least they are more fun to watch and we know they have a good chance to win.

Over the course of NFL history it has proven to not be a repeatable skill. Teams that win a bunch of close games one year fall back the next year. Teams that lost a bunch of close games usually win more games the next year.

And that's the Dawgtalker way. They complain when we don't let "Baker be Baker" and they complain when we do. If Stefanski let's Baker pass and we lose, it's Stefanski's fault. If he runs instead of letting Baker throw, it's Stefnanski's fault. No matter which way the wind blows, it's Stefanski's fault.