DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield Part VII: The Dawg Awakens

There is an out should the Browns seek one. If Baker is traded before or after 6/1/22 once the 2022 season officially starts, there is $0 in dead cap.

On that note, we're going to ride this broken roller coaster again in 2022.

Not knocking Joe Burrow, but Baker has won how many in his house?

If Baker could play the Bengals every week,he'd be really good.Unfortunately,he gets to play good teams,where he doesn't win many in their house.

I think the Browns-Burrow hypotheticals are a tiny bit unfair. Burrow has his weaknesses but his game lines up perfectly (IMO) with what KS wants to do on O. Similarly, Burrow (IMO) would kill to have Baker's weapons.

Baker is just too inconsistent. The little comment Warner made in his 1st half video resonated with me. If he's still not taking the right first step on a snap under center after focusing on footwork.... We've seen how his accuracy is all over the place when his motion isn't consistent. Dude needs to find a broom-sweeper stat. The injuries aren't going to help an inconsistent delivery.

Really???

Jamarr Chase. Tee Higgins. Tyler Boyd.

Or .......

Jarvis Landry. DPJ. Rashard Higgins.


We have a superior depth at RB (but Joe Mixon is no slouch) and TE, but the WR corps is so drastically tilted in the Bengals favor that it's ridiculous.

Not to mention a pretty good RB with Joe Mixon. He may not be in Chubb's league but he's darn close.

Burrow would be killed if he had Baker's weapons.

The Browns (healthy) OL is miles better than the Bengals. The patchwork OL we have had this season is still probably better then the Conci starters.

Chubb is better than Joe Mixon - but Mixon is a very very good NFL running back.

Our best WR's might not make the Bengals 53 man roster. Landry maybe as a 4th or 5th WR.

TE position might be deeper, but our TE's aren't special and Njoku is inconsistent.

In many ways - the accuracy of Burrows would play well in Stefanski's offense, I believe he is more accurate than Baker and might process faster. But playing the season with a torn Labarum might impact Burrows some.

The answer to your question is yes. Mullens played as well as Baker has in his last five games now. Baker played one really good half of football in his last five games. If you wish to try and isolate one half of football in the the last five games you have made a point. Otherwise there really is none. Now you can say that Baker delivered some passes yesterday that Mullens could not make. And that may very well may be true. But you can't point out the good without looking at the entire picture here. A controlled offense doesn't look exciting or make for a great highlight reel. It also doesn't hand the ball over to your opponent leading to 21 of the 24 points they scored in a loss.

You and those who have been screaming at Stefanski got exactly what you asked for. He turned Baker loose and let "Baker be Baker". Hopefully you may be able to understand why he hasn't turned Baker loose now and will stop laying it all at the feet of our HC. And you can berate the WR's all you like. But when Baker delivered the ball in a catchable fashion, they caught the ball. As we saw, they didn't need to be wide open. That's not what an NFL window looks like. You either have a QB who can do that on a consistent basis or you don't.

For all our sakes I hope a 100% healthy Baker can turn things around next year. But pretending that's not what it will take for him to be considered a long term answer at the QB position is fools gold.

We got what we wanted? Sure, tell yourself that.

In the post game thread I made a comment about KS and his play calling. It was the best game this year. Until the last 3 plays. And again - I am sure you will try to claim "we got what we wanted" because of how the previous game ended and comments that were made. I covered that in my post game comment too - but if you want to say we got what we wanted and ignore what was actually going on in each game, then so be it.

Bottom line - we both (and all) agree Baker has to be much much better next year. I believe he will be. Others are willing to cut Baker today.

** and I am still not writing off this season either. Lot of football left to play.

I'm still up for giving Baker his 5th year.... but if we don't, there is only one QB I can think of that I want.

I do not want to draft one, not even in the first round. That starts us over on a 2-3 year development plan and has huge risks associated with it.
None of the big names are coming here, most probably won't leave where they are... and I don't want Watson..
There are no Matt Staffords that I see, really good QBs in bad situations, that we might be able to get. Heck, if there is one of those in the NFL today, it might be Baker.. I could definitely see him doing well getting a fresh start somewhere else.
There are no back-ups that really peak my interest, except one.

Tyler Huntley. Dude has a nice touch, throws a nice ball, has played in 3 games this year and completed over 70% of his passes in every game, is athletic enough to make plays with his legs, and he is on a one-year deal with the Ravens for about $800K... so I don't know what the market will be for him after the season.. but he is the one guy I wouldn't be upset if we went to get.

This is hilarious. He cut Baker loose just like you had been asking for. The results? Three int's resulting in 21 of our opponents 24 points. We lost by the same two point margin we lost by the week before. I guess looking more exciting in a two point loss means something to you. But at least we have a highlight reel. It's been playing all morning. It consists of our QB throwing int's.

So you're saying if we manage to grasp that proverbial needle in the haystack by making the playoffs it means Baker has played better than he has? Just remember that we had more rushing yards than passing yards yesterday and it almost overcame a terrible performance by our QB. Just not quite.

Either you don't actually watch the Browns games...or you have very little understanding of what happens in them.

None. The team only had one practice all week.

Yeah, that's it. I didn't see 21 of the Packers 24 points coming off of int's by Baker.

Burns is great. Nice, honest, objective takes.

Our QB is a mess and lacks high quality decision making in year 4. This is why I say he either doesn't work hard enough/or not on the right things or he just lacks it mentally.

I honestly don't know what to think about Baker and the future. So frustrating to be in this position.

Having your cake and eating it too?

If Baker hadn't missed time due to covid and missed practice, it would have been, "He's had no time to rest in order to let the injury pain subside so it has to be the injury."

If Baker has had time to rest and allow the pain level to subside it's, "But he's had no practice time".

Face it, no matter what happens there will be "baked in" excuses made.

It's been five performances in a row now from Baker and the story keeps changing like a daytime soap opera as for the excuses why. Only two more weeks and you will have the entire off season to rest from writing fiction stories. Enjoy the vacation.

I think the most likely and best course forward is to let him play out the fifth year. I would bring in a backup that can actually play if Baker is terrible.

The glee with which you seem to post with your "gotcha" posts is a bit nauseating.

As I said - we agree Baker needs to play much better. He played badly vs GB. As someone just posted - what actually goes on in the game matters, but not to you apparently. But nuance and commenting at a depth more than someone's completion % seems beyond you. As does accepting a comment about a well called game by KS which you ignore.

As for not practicing for 2 weeks and whether that might make a difference - and your diatribe about what posters would have said if Baker hadn't played .... that's you deflecting and going to extra ordinary lengths of imagination - and last time I checked on the definition of "gaslighting" I think that's one of the explanations.

So if I act like I'm mad you don't like the way I'm posting and if I laugh about "your comments" you don't like it. You would rather try to infer I enjoy watching Baker fail. Then you talk about me gaslighting?

No, actually it may be you having a selective memory. Posters on this very board were suggesting we rest Baker in the first Ravens game so between that game and the bye he would have two weeks rest going into the last three games. I didn't just make that up. I'm talking about what posters had already said previously, not what they "might say". The only thing you could possibly be saying is that posters repeating something they have already said sounds crazy.

Oh yea our receivers suck. I mean we had a solid core but ya know, it was OBJs fault.

It went from “teams better with OBJ” to “our receivers suck”.

Like I said previously, you guys are gonna run out of people to blame. Soon it will be nick Chubb and D’Ernest Johnson next.

Baker mayfield is not that guy.

OBJ left, and baker got worse. By the way, we have our TEs who are really good. Guess they don’t count huh? I guess our TEs suck too..

The o line, banged up and all, still dominating in the ground game and pass blocking. But hey they suck too

Everybody else sucks. Baker throwing those three int's that led to 21 of the Packers 24 points were the fault of the WR's, Stefanski, the OL and the defense....oh yeah, and Woods.

At some point you would think this nonsense would stop. And with each passing week it lessens. More people are seeing the light as time passes. But there are still those who can not face or speak the truth and even blame some of us for doing so.

You have begun to make up so much chit it's not funny. But well done for not addressing any of the comments. Well done.

One question.

When posters - myself included in this comment - suggested resting Baker. Do you believe that they meant he should be moth balled and not practice as well as not play in games? Do you believe that even if it did mean not practicing - do you think that when he retuned for the next game it would mean that he wouldn't practice for his return and that he would be wrapped in cotton wool, right up to the day before the game and then join the team?

Yeah - that would make no sense. But that is precisely what you have just implied. Solid argument huh.

Baker doesn’t need rest. He needs to step up.

Right now he’s a better actor in commercials than he is a NFL QB.

And the comment was not that you were gleeful about a loss - I said you gleefully make "gotcha" posts about other posters. So just a little more gaslighting by you. Yes. Or maybe just inability to comprehend?

I made that comment when he was clearly still badly hurt. I think after the bye week he has looked fine.

I agree he's a better actor in commercials than he is an NFL QB right now. See, that's pretty straight forward.

Baker is not a good QB. The Browns were only going as far as Baker was going to take them this year no matter how good the rest of the team is. That's how the NFL works.

The question now is after 4 years can he become a good QB? After watching Burns breakdowns of the ints I have serious reservations. The first two interceptions you expect from first year players not 4th year #1 overall players. Baker doesn't have much feel for the game, IMO. He's just not very good. And there are no.signs to indicate it will get better. He doesn't do anything well.

So sticking entirely to your opinion - the question I would have: Has Baker shown at any time in his 4 years, over a consistent period of play (say 9 games) - that he can be "good" or "Good enough" to win. I mean he wouldn't need to be graded by PFF as a top 5 QB in the NFL over that period of time ... just "good", you choose what metric you want to decide what "good" means and let us know.... But if he has done this - then I would think the question isn't 'can he be good' it would be, what do the Browns need to do to make sure he returns to that form and stays there.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret your question. I think I know what answer you are looking for, but instead of a cherry picked answer, this appears to be a cherry picked question.

Has Mayfield had some good moments in his career? I think he has. Has he had some good stretches? I think he has. I think it just depends on what you weigh more heavily as to where you fall on the if you think Baker is good spectrum.

I don't weigh his 9 game stretch last year as heavily as you do. I think he played really well, but the opponents weren't very difficult, and we mostly played from in front (with the exception of the Ravens game which I thought was the best game of his career). Even after that 9 game stretch I stated before the season started that he had to take another step and continue an upward trajectory if the Browns were going to be successful this year.

It's year 4 and we still don't know if he is going to be good or not. Do we need more evidence/nuance/context than that? It seems like every week we are trying to come up with new reasons why he wasn't good. I think even WSU mentioned something about "drives before drives" where Baker played well but someone else was at fault for losing the game. Is that where we are? Drives before drives?

Baker is not good. If you disagree with that, then I admire your conviction. And I hope you are right, and I am wrong. But I see no evidence to change my mind at this time. And I hate it. Contrary to popular belief, it brings me no joy to come on here and say it. Honestly, it's my therapy. It's where I get to come and vent.

I do weight that 9 game skid more heavily than you. Clearly. I'd agree the competition wasn't good, but PFF grading does not simply look at stats, it is intended to be a true evaluation of play. It's subjective and not perfect but I have more faith in it than a QBR rating by ESPN for example. But whether good or bad competition, whether rated as a top 5 QB or not, Baker was plenty good enough last season in the final 9 games to show he can be "good". Or if you aren't convinced "Good enough" would be hard to disagree with. Whether he can strap the team on his back? Or other cliches that people label a FQB need to do? Not sure. But I absolutely have no doubt in my own mind, the Kitchens year was an abomination and that this year with torn Labarum is not a true representation of his ability. We'll see. As bad as Baker has been, I think he's out starting QB next year.

Let me explain to you what you have done in hopes you can understand it.

On the last offensive play by the Browns in this game, Baker threw a pass. The pass was being delivered on time to a WR in stride that clearly had position on the defender. So much so the defender knew it to the point that he felt compelled to interfere to stop the play from being successful. The ref blew it by not making the PI call. The completion or PI call either one would have put as in FG range with almost a minute left to go with three timeouts remaining.

Your answer? It was poor play calling. If you and those of you using this excuse can't see that, there's nothing that's going to convince you that the myriad of excuses you keep coming up with only serve to disguise reality.

TEs are really good. LOL - now that is some funny [censored].

Has anyone considered the fact that perhaps maybe Baker has reached his ceiling as a QB?
It's happened to other QBs in the NFL. They peak very early in their careers and after year 3-or 4
They begin to go south.
Josh Freenan comes to mind. Jared Goff. Robert Griffith. Mitch Trubisky. Chad Pennington
Tim.Couch. Derek Anderson. Kelly Holcomb.
I get the narrative that Mayfield played with a chip on.his shoulder and he was a walk on
And he was 4th string on.his Pop Warner team.
But at some point talent and a mental aptitude has to become evident.
I think Mayfield has hit the ceiling.

Jared Goff has 17 TDs and 8 picks playing on one of the worst teams in the NFL. If he was our QB, I think we might have 10 wins right now. My point is not that he is great, but just that I am afraid we are expecting/projecting something on Baker that just is not there. We don’t need a Hall of Famer, but we need a guy who is at least top15 in the NFL. If this is what you have in year 4, it’s probably never gonna work.
I have been back and forth on him, because I really like him and I remember the good stretches. But you just can’t have any confidence whatsoever in him at this point. I agree with CFRS, we need to bring him back, but with a good Plan B. Huntley, Derek Carr, Goff, Cousins, maybe a draft pick.

j/c…

Barf.

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
1 TD & 8 INTs on throws of 10+ yards since Week 10. Seems impossible to do that in the modern NFL.

Mechanics. Double barf.

So you are saying that Rodgers would have scored -0- points if he didn't get the ball after a turnover. Got it. Such a stupid stat.

Look at his right foot. While his mechanics have regressed this year (shocker with a torn labrum in his lead shoulder), his foot gets stuck or twists or slips on that throw. For all the Burrow lovers on here, Tee Higgins makes that catch.

And there it is.

Soon our running backs are gonna suck too. It’s everyone else fault but poor ole baker.