DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield Part VII: The Dawg Awakens

They’ll need to find a trade partner is this is the case. Otherwise, they’re looking at ~$18.5M in dead cap space if they just release him.

Landry was open on the horrible overthrow on 3rd down that would have setup a chip shot FG and give the Browns 3 points they needed at the end. I believe Stefanski even said that play was setup and designed just to give Naggar a short FG and get the 3 points on the board.

Baker had Hollywood running wide open on the deep crossing route underneath DPJ for what would’ve been a 30 yard gain or more. Baker instead threw into double coverage and was picked off.

Can’t wait to hear the rest! This is all so miserable to think this is where we are at four years later.

Huge decisions for this team this offseason.

I don’t think we trade him unless we already have someone else in the bag. If we do want to trade him I don’t think it’ll be a problem. The Panthers gave up a second round pick for Sam Darnold. Also, $18.5M is not a big amount for a starting QB.

As I’ve said before, the most likely scenario is to have Baker play out his fifth year.

Three open guys. Incomplete. But the play calling.

MKC is the only reporter I have seen "report" on this alleged rift between Baker and Browns F.O.

Rish followed up and posted another link allegedly substantiating the claim - but in that link the reporter only mentioned what MKC had "reported" ... and then he speculated that it might make sense.

I think that suggesting there are rumblings in the media is not accurate. As before if there other reports I'd happily read or listen.

The only “report” I’ve seen is from MKC. My guess is that things will change when we’re rumored to be interested in every available QB this off-season.

My contention is an obvious one. The defender knew he had been beaten. He knew the pass was on the money and if he didn't commit the PI, the play would have gone for even greater distance. The play called was not bad. Your contention is despite all of that, it was the wrong call. Your contention is that even when the play called is a good one, it's the wrong one. Your contention is that calling the play the defense is most likely expecting is the best case scenario. Your contention is that only one play can be called that is right and no other play can possibly be right because no other viable option exists.

That's not on me.

It's the convenient excuse. No amount of actual evidence will change that.

Another classic piece of gaslighting. Thanks, I needed a laugh after seeing these stats and podcasts on how bad Baker is.

Do you even read your own posts?

Sounds like something you cure with penicillin.

Well, Baker is here. So, I will root for him. I’ve seen him be great, I’ve seen him be lousy. But, until things change, I’ll root for him. I don’t doubt his work ethic, or drive, or any of the attitudinal attributes he has. I honestly believe the injury is a big factor, and am hopeful that the off-season healing will help.

You keep making posts saying that my post says something it doesn't say. You keep arguing against a point I don't make. That is gaslighting. I guess you have a reputation for it. I thought maybe you'd move on.

I've suggested focusing on what we agree on which is Baker needs to be better - but instead you want to "explain to me so I will understand" and talk down to anyone with a brain who can see that 3 pass plays called in a row when your team is averaging 8.8 yards a carry and the game is on the line is bad play calling. End of story. I mean if there wasn't a 24% chance of something bad happening on a pass play it would be bad enough already, but when you add that in and maybe it wasn't bad play calling, maybe we should call it atrocious ... sure you focus on the PI. Absolutely your right to focus on what you choose.

its strange how the all 22 says the receivers get open, the national sports media knows our guys get open, PFF says they get open, and yet browns fans are convinced that our receiving core is trash.

we've been talking about baker not being able to read defense and not hit open guys for 3 years now. injuries have nothing to do with baker not being able to read the field. we've been talking about bakers trash mechanics for 3 years now, so injuries aren't an excuse as to why baker has trash footwork every season.

he's 2-14 with the game on the line. even before the injury, it was a problem.

he leads the league in interceptions. even before the injury, that was a problem.

he's mechanics suck. even before the injury, that was a problem.

he cant read the field. even before the injury, that was a problem.

why should i believe that those things will change next season? if he cant hit open receivers now, how will he hit open receivers with "better" talent? if he still cant read defenses now, why should i believe he's gonna figure it out next season?

Deshaun watson, even if he dodges charges, is gonna serve a suspension for play misconduct, AS HE SHOULD. but im if berry, i see if houston takes baker and 2-3 1st for watson. we have him for 4 years anyway, so start keenum until watson is off suspension. he is better than baker and its not even close.

what im scared is we do something stupid like get trubisky or jimmy G.

I would assume we keep Baker if we get Jimmy G or Trubisky.

And you're saying things I didn't say. I didn't say three pass plays called in a row was the right thing. I said one of those worked out to be the right call and you simply won't admit that. There's a difference.

No that's not actually it at all.

I said the 3 pass plays called in a row were bad given the rest of the game and how successful we were running (at 8.8 yards a clip). Period. It has to be taken as a whole. 3 plays called with 50 seconds left in the game, 3 Time Outs, 3 Points needed, driving at midfield. I even said I liked the aggressive play on first down and going for a PA pass. That's been my position since the beginning spelled out crystal clear for everyone.

You decided that the play calling was good and wanted to argue against my position. So YOU need to justify all 3 play calls ... all passes. Not point to one PI call that didn't go our way on a pass that may or may not have been caught and say the play calllING was right. We aren't debating one singular play call.

If you want me to go quote myself I can .... it's been the same from the beginning - the play calling (not singular) for the GB game may have been KS best of the year. But the last 3 plays (multiple not singular) were bad.

My point has remained unchanged, and a non PI call does not change KS calling 3 pass plays in a row in that game situation. And based on the numbers each time he called a pass there was a 24% chance of a sack or interception.

I'm going to drop this. Everyone saw what happened and they can make their own decision based on what they saw. I would have loved to have been in that field position had that call not been blown. One time out would have had to be taken to get the kicking team on the field. So having two time outs remaining to give a kicker who just came off the practice squad even better field position with a shorter attempt would have been fantastic. We simply disagree.

Who is clamoring for him to be replaced, he needs to be improved, and it is obviously the coaching that relys on analytics that continues to put the team in a position to have the bad 4th quarters on offense. They have better 2nd quarters.
(It's not the coaching, or the quarterback by person, it is the philosophy that they implement that sucks.)

That's what I'd like to know too. Maybe he's talking about other places on the internet? Because pretty much everyone on this board has said let's give him next year and see what happens.

If the Cleveland Browns got rid of Baker Mayfield, what an embarrassment that would be to the city and the organization, that they couldn't hold on to their player.

This isn't the FO that drafted Baker.

Good play callers get 4 guys open.

I feel the same. Mayfield needs to play better, more consistently, I agree. But I also remember all the lousy QB play we went through trying to find him. We should draft a later round QB every year in the next Brady lottery and ride with Baker next year to see if he can turn it around. But I also agree, if he wants to leave, let him go. And if the FO is ready to move on, do it now.

If Baker plays mostly good, some great football next season, we'll be right back here wondering if he should get a long term deal. It's like it's Super Bowl or nothing for him now, with the brown's fickle fans.

I’d take not one of the worst QBs in the league.

I keep saying ... there is time enough this season too. I know he is not 100% and the left shoulder and it's restriction prevents him from being as consistent as we want ... but there is time enough. Win the division and maybe another playoff game, it would make a difference to how many think/feel.

Those drives were 50, 60, and 80 yards.. I guess your premise is that if Baker hadn't thrown an INT, we would have held them to 3 points?

I actually see 4 guys open, also looking at the lines there is a blue line and a yellow line at the 39 yard line. Is the blue line the line of scrimmage ? Is the yellow line the first down ? If so this play needs to be a 15 yard pick up looking at where the Lineman are.

Also no receiver is even near the first down line, although if they get the ball looks like a run to pick up the first down.. I guess I'm seeing something different.

Yes, the blue line is the LOS. Baker chose to make the most difficult of the 4 throws, which is on him. If he hits Landry in stride, which should be like pitch and catch, it's a pretty easy 10+ yard gain...

However, the premise that this one play call, that wasn't properly executed, negates the notion that there wasn't questionable play calling isn't right either. Did we come back and run Chubb on 2nd down? We had runs of 10, 12, 10, 30, 12 on our 2 previous drives. Did we, on any of those 3 plays, even run play action?

Then there is the fact that on 3rd down, he threw the perfect ball and would have been a first down, had the defender not be allowed to grab DPJ by the jersey, and use it to halt DPJs progress while pulling himself into the passing lane.. but Baker threw the INT, so it's on him.

DC how in the heck did he end up 8 yards behind the yard of scrimmage ? If the blue line is the line of scrimmage why is both O line and D line 5 yards behind that line ? and thank you for the response .

Looks like a first and 15 not a first and 10

baker typically has to drop back that far because he cant see over the lineman.

And the Baker haters and pundits blame the loss on him and "he" loses another game in Q4;'

In the Raider game, the coach dials up a run-right on 3rd and 3 when the entire world knows that's what he'll do...stopped short and we punt...the defense plays prevent all the way to FG range...Baker fails to lead the team in the 4th Q for a W;

In the Steeler game, Landry fumbles, drops a pass (or was it 2?), and OBJ makes a business decision...but Baker fails to lead the team to a 4th Q W;

We lose to the Chargers by (5)...Baker leads the team to (2) Q4 TDs and a 2pt conversion...the defense gives up (26) point in the 4th Q...Baker fails to lead the team to a 4th Q W;

That's just off the top of my head...and just this year. Just another BS stat (2-14) for smart fans to ponder and agenda fans to flame.

WSU --> I think Baker has probably failed to win on 4th Q comebacks as much as anyone. Maybe more. I also remember many games where we took the lead with not much time on the clock, only to see the other team drive down and score and take the lead. Ravens a couple of times, KC I think. I'm sure there have been others. Meh. I don't care at this point - the folks that have absolutely given up on Baker (While anointing Herbert, Burrows, Lamar, Allen etc) are judging Baker's ceiling based on injury, Kitchens and the worst of Baker. I think you and I and some others look at what Baker was at his best and has shown he can be and believe he can be that again when healthy.

Whether or not the QB elevates the WR or if it's the other way around or whether it's a bit of both .... Our WR have not been very good this year. We see freeze frames of WR running open - not knowing where the ball is designed to go. One thing the does not correlate - if our WR were running as open and free as is suggested, then their grades would not be 77th and worse in the NFL. PFF doesn't grade the WR only when the ball is thrown their way.

Not only Baker - I think the whole team has been impacted by injury. DPJ, Landry and company have all had issues that impacted them negatively. The OL has been a constant flux - we've had games where it looked like we could run for 300 yards. We've had games where it didn't look like we could run it in from 1st and goal from the 3 yard line. But the GB game showed some of the potential against what I think is a very good NFL on both sides of the ball - we've got a lot of football to play. We could fall on our faces this week against Pit - or we can win and hope to play for the Div Title in our last game of the year. It would change a lot of narratives if Baker beat Burrows to win the title. According to many, that is just impossible. Let's see what happens.

(Whether or not the QB elevates the WR or if it's the other way around or whether it's a bit of both .... Our WR have not been very good this year. )


Higgins seems to be a player that elevates Bakers play, but where's mr invisible ?


Another comes to mind, and I know he has been on and off other teams and may not be a good WR, but he seemed to elevate Baker... Perriman


Appears Baker plays better with okay WR's more then a star WR

I believe that you and I are seeing the same things re: Baker and in the same way/vein - warts and all. Part of my frustration is the comparison to other QB's and the anointing that you mentioned above. The situations are so different that the saying "the grass is always greener..." becomes such a ridiculous understatement.

The teams of the QBs you mentioned - and a couple that you did not - have significantly better pass-catchers than we do. We don't have a WR that would get gameday reps if they were on the Bengals...or Cardinals...or Buccaneers...or Chargers...maybe Landry as the 3/4 with the Bills/Ravens. Our best TE - as was mentioned by Hammer - is the 4th best TE...IN OUR DIVISION. On the teams I mentioned here, our best TE wouldn't get squat for looks with the weapons on those teams and as TE2...yet not only is he our "stud" according to Chris Collinsworth he is our best deep threat.

Baker needs to play better...he demonstrated in the last half of last year that he "can" do it. It would be so "old" Browns to move on without seeing what could be and in that guaranteed 5th year...especially if they bring in a couple of WRs that are similar in talent as the anointed-ones throw to every Sunday.

Yep.

And your point is yet-another reason why I wouldn't walk away from Baker just yet. Perriman is a big WR who knows how to get open and use his frame with very good speed...he's taller than Baker...he's good...but other than the traits I mentioned, he isn't "special"...while being a perfect fit for what (I think) Baker needs as a target. He's not a "star" as you said, but he's a perfect fit.

Higgins runs good routes and catches the ball...he's a perfect #3/4...but ONLY IF there is a threat on the field with him.

I regularly see people state that we need WRs (2) and a better TE...how do you rate a QB when those are a teams' top needs?

Every other starting TE in the AFCN makes that catch. Njoku is a joke. All muscle. No football.

The Browns front office should next year draft a QB in Rd 1
Or Rd 2. Ive seen QBs with more than what Mayfield has to offer
And even resumes of playoff appearances get moved to other teams
For upgrades at the QB position.
Mayfield really limits the potential of the Browns offense

A 1st or 2nd Rd QB in this draft is not going to succeed throwing to DPJ, a departed Landry, Schwartz or any of our (3) average+ TEs.

The most-recent "playoff" QB to be moved is Goff. Goff has about 1/2 the arm talent needed to succeed in the NFL with his limited talent available to catch the ball from him - see Detroit Lions. Goff couldn't get it done throwing to Higbee, Woods, Jefferson and Kupp...THAT's why they moved on from him...add the OBJ-less Rams to the list of teams where our WRs wouldn't even be active on gameday. OBJ was our #1 WR...he's the Rams #4.

The Browns offense this year is limited...regardless of who is at QB.

Kupp, Woods, Jefferson, Higbee

vs.

DPJ, Landry, Schwartz, Njoku.

Wow...just...wow. Bring on Keenum to get the offense purring.