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I would hate to think this was done on purpose to rid him of Baker so he can hand pick his QB.
But the other option is total incompetence which I don't wish to believe and yet that is what we have. Especially in the end when we had a few games to fight and get in the post season and to even win our first Division championship. And we abandon the run especially when we were getting 7 yards per clip and we see Chubb standing on the sidelines almost with a confused look on his face like how come I'm not in there and we are not talking about HUNT being in there. Deandre Johnson...sorry he over achieved which was good to see but he ain't no Hunt nor Chubb and the season is now on the line and we need that win and its 2-3 series in a row ending a half or the game with Chubb not in??? Then when asked it was stated Chubb was fine it was just not his turn...huh?
Football is about circumstances and riding certain horses when they are running well. Instead we are on some charted system regardless of circumstance...then have Ski go home and we will just get coached from the chart without any game day Coaching...smh I agree. That said, we just don't know how the relationship is between Baker and Stefanski. I am, or was a big Baker supporter. "Was" meaning less so today. Baker has always had an edge that rubbed many people the wrong way. That is evidenced by all the media attention over the last several years. Did it finally come to a boiling point between him and Stefanski? It sure looks so from my chair. My hope it that can change, but I don't think that can happen. I think a change is going to happen and that change isn't going to be with the coach. I think back to mid season. Baker came out in the media saying the decision to play was HIS decision and he was good enough to play and he was going to play. At the time I remember saying the decision wasn't his, it was the coach's decision. Looking back, if I had to guess, Stefanski talked to Baker about shifting over the Keenum and Baker got irritated and went to the media to make his proclamation. I'd say that was the moment the relationship took a big turn. That was a cut the legs off of your coach moment. That can't be done, and it can't be fixed. Baker playing his last game as a Brown is a real possibility.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Peen if that is true Stefanski truly is in over his head. Decisions like that has to be his - we are talking about the "TEAM" having a chance to win the Division and get into the post season. If he isn't making decisions on what is best for the TEAM and leaving it up to players then he more and more says to me he is the WRONG guy and we got to get rid of him NOW rather than the QB. For crying out loud we have waited 22 years to find us a QB to lead the team to playoffs.
And your change as a fan from Baker to maybe not is predicated on a season that was retarded in so many ways.
1. from the get go and studying Baker 2 years in college I saw just about every single game he played in those 2 seasons at OU. I also stated it here, the kid is TOUGH I've seen him pretty much knocked out and injured then by the time the next O series would come he would force himself out there and continue to play. Not once did I see him TAKE HIMSELF OUT. There is no situation except possibly a hospitalization that Baker would not play...so if asked he said he is ready to play. For a coach to listen to that and then say well Baker refused. That is ridiculous. I think we under appreciated the need for a more competent back up QB. We never went after a Teddy or even Dalton somebody who would not compete or beat out Baker for the starter but somebody who was more talented then Case Keenum who gave the Vikings some competent play but lets face it in our division with the Defenses we see from Steelers and Ravens a lollipop thrower just is not good enough. Again more reason why I think we have to rid ourselves of Ski as he simply is incompetent in building a team properly.
2. for a team that had the best commodity as a running team we really didn't utlilize the run that much? Why??? was it cause OBJ and Landry who I think took over the offense for most the year demanded more passing 2 games wins against Lions and Broncos as a team we ran 36 and 33 times oddly (33 was with no Chubb nor Hunt playing Bronco game) Mullens game at QB was the most Chubb ran with 23 touches. For the most part we ran short routes where in past years we ran a lot of 15+ routes.
I just thought overall our team from day one as there was no covid interference in preseason we just was no a cohesive team especially since it was the first time for what seemed like forever that we did not have a change in our make out. Same players and coaches for the most part.
Quite frankly if it wasn't for Bill Callahan we would not have had much of a team at all. smh We get rid of Baker without a proper starter like lets say a "RIVERS" and we get rid of Drew Brees in our case Baker who had a similar season as Drew did then they drafted Rivers and eventually got rid of Brees. Where he went from 58% completion his 3rd season to 66% his next then they got rid of him cause Rivers was ready. Hmm how did that one work out. Nah lets not build our team around what Baker does best. Lets force the O down his throat.
Got to run...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hard to believe Stefanski would basically lose on purpose to help run out Baker. The James Hudson stuff is quite damning, and I have to believe Callahan would’ve suggested getting him help. I’ll say this: the only way it is possible KS would scheme this out is if he knew exactly who he wanted in here and knew he could pull it off. So if Kirk Cousins winds up here, then I am suspicious.
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The same QB and HC that led us to the playoffs together last year is not something the HC suddenly decided to plot against to undermine him the following season. That makes no sense. Cosspiracy theories seem to control the minds of a lot of people these days. This is just one more to add to the list.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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There’s absolutely no way thatKS would jeopardize his job here,and possibly somewhere else in the future to do that. Coaches are graded by one metric: the wins and losses.
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The same QB and HC that led us to the playoffs together last year is not something the HC suddenly decided to plot against to undermine him the following season. That makes no sense. Cosspiracy theories seem to control the minds of a lot of people these days. This is just one more to add to the list. Nine sacks in one game against an injured QB. Please give me your thoughts how many sacks you think is enough before it’s time to make changes in order to protect your QB? When you’re on the subject please give me your honest view about Stefanski as a HC, good and bad, and how you want us to move forward regarding the QB situation. I also hope you can be objective enough to judge both Baker and our HC to the same standard because that’s something I missing in this discussion.
Last edited by Floquinho; 01/08/22 01:16 PM.
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You obviously lack the ability to understand context. The same QB and HC that led us to the playoffs together last year is not something the HC suddenly decided to plot against to undermine him the following season. That makes no sense. The context revolves around a conspiracy theory that Stefanski is purposefully trying to undermine Baker to replace him at QB. Once you grasp that, things become clearer. At least one would hope so. NO HC in his second NFL season would purposefully undermine a QB who helped lead this team to the playoffs the year before. NO NFL HC with only being a HC in his second season would purposefully lead his team to a losing season. It would undermine his own career and job. Focus.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Oh my gosh the Browns should be featured on the Art Bell
Coast.to.Coast radio show . The conspiracy theories galore
Lets see a few weeks ago, the league and the refs
Made the sure Aaron Rogers won Xmas day.
Then the somewhere in Nimacola Resort in southern PA
The Rooneys met with Mr.X and Sluggworth from Charlie
And.the Chocalate Factory to pass along insurance that
Big Bens last game at Heinz was a guaranteed win
Now Kevin Stefanski is undermining Mayfield. It's all part of the plan
Connect the.dots. It's all make sense.
Funny.how when the Browns were 3 and 1 this season
Everything was sunshine and lollipops.
Now that the Browns have reinvented the term fools gold
And showed how soft that locker room is
It must be a league wide collaboration on all levels
To keep the Browns from achieving a actual North Title.
How many years now..22?
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You obviously lack the ability to understand context. The same QB and HC that led us to the playoffs together last year is not something the HC suddenly decided to plot against to undermine him the following season. That makes no sense. The context revolves around a conspiracy theory that Stefanski is purposefully trying to undermine Baker to replace him at QB. Once you grasp that, things become clearer. At least one would hope so. NO HC in his second NFL season would purposefully undermine a QB who helped lead this team to the playoffs the year before. NO NFL HC with only being a HC in his second season would purposefully lead his team to a losing season. It would undermine his own career and job. Focus. Running Stefanskis system last season, Baker QBed us to 11 wins.. Now that tells me that either it was a A: a fluke, B: it was well done but opposition figured it out and we didn't adjust or C: it was injuries and covid.... I'm going with B and C..Not sure how much weight to put on which one. But none of them lead me to believe that Stefanski wants Baker gone...
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/08/22 07:14 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Browns played a soft schedule last year. The league has film on Stefanskis
Offense. Its a offense designed to win TOP and preserve early leads
It's not a dynamic modern age offense. WRs are not focal points.
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Who is worse at there Job, Baker or KS?
I think they are even this year. Baker is hurt and will be back to very good next year.
Im not so sure about KS.
So I think Baker is better than KS
Joe Thomas #73
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Wait a minute.
It is one thing to dislike a HC because you disagree with his game plans or playcalling.
Or, you may question his leadership skills or even question his competency as a head coach in general.
Let's go back to pure logic.
Why on earth would a new head coach in his second year decide to lose games?
To believe he would conspire with an owner to get a qb in the draft?
That would mean winning like two or three games. How could you possibly secure a position in the draft to get one player?
All this after winning the first playoff game in like forever with the qb on the team? Really? And Haslam would go along with that after all the losing he has been through? Is this a joke? We beat the Steelers in their yard, in the playoffs.
How on earth would a head coach do all this all through the season? So in all the meetings with players and coaches he somehow has an alternative plan to lose games?
Tab you know better. Check the meds.
You have not thought this through. Something else is at play here. Lack of sleep. The meds you have to take.
Expectations for 2021 were to compete for a Super Bowl.
The Browns were not looked at as "suck for Luck" team. Baker was coming off his finest hour with the Browns. Stefanski was "Head Coach of the Year."
Damn I thought the title was some kind of joke.
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I don't think KS did anything sinister in "trying to rid us of Baker"...my issue is that I wish he did though. Because if he really thought that putting Hudson out there all alone with Watt was a viable plan/scheme, then I'd call that more damning than trying to sabotage the QB. JMO
If it WAS sabotage, then it worked. If it wasn't sabotage, then we might have a 1-yr fluke as a HC/OC. Neither choice is a good choice.
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It's a really bad look either way. One that shouldn't/can't be explained away with just a "I need to be better".
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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KS has 18 wins in two years... how many Browns' HCs have done that?
I think he took a step back this year and did a few tings that I didn't agree with.... but there's no way I want to change HCs again after this year...
<><
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Who is worse at there Job, Baker or KS?
I think they are even this year. Baker is hurt and will be back to very good next year.
Im not so sure about KS.
So I think Baker is better than KS Stefanski really should have gotten four open receivers per play. It was a missed opportunity.
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Hard to believe Stefanski would basically lose on purpose to help run out Baker. The James Hudson stuff is quite damning, and I have to believe Callahan would’ve suggested getting him help. I’ll say this: the only way it is possible KS would scheme this out is if he knew exactly who he wanted in here and knew he could pull it off. So if Kirk Cousins winds up here, then I am suspicious.
I'm expecting us to look a lot smoother on the O - I lot of comfort zone situations looking easier. Now that Baker is gone we like we did with Mullens we will run the ball like we should have and that was without Chubb nor Hunt we ran the most without Baker on the roster. I expect to see that again and we will control the game assuming D came to play! We will do a lot of play action going to the right not left I mean sometimes we will but not at a high %. We will see things we should have done with Baker out there and injured again WHY? I don't think on purpose to lose I think to make it look bad for Baker. I guess just give me that aluminum foil hat and yet now I'm reading more and more about these little things happening within the media
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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It was announced that Baker will be the starter next year.
This whole notion of your's is out of whack.
Frankly, I don't how to reply.
Tab, you need to really think this through.
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It was announced that Baker will be the starter next year. I think that is just posturing. I also think this thing is going to implode. If they are not 100% committed to Baker for 2022, then I hope they pull the trigger asap and get on with it. AB has a lot of work to do to bolster the 53...and uncertainty at QB is going to make that job almost impossible. I'm concerned that this will become (or already is) a Baker or Ski thing...and Baker isn't their guy, is having surgery, didn't play well in '22, half the fan base hates him,etc.
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If Keenum goes absolutely bananas in this game and KS calls a wide open game, then you might be on to something.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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If Keenum goes absolutely bananas in this game and KS calls a wide open game, then you might be on to something. I hesitated to post this...but...several of the QBs mentioned as 'upgrades' or 'competition' for the QB job really aren't any better than Keenum IMO. Mariota? Trubisky? Bridgewater? I'd rather roll with Keenum. Jimmy G? Better still keep Keenum then because Jimmy G isn't playing a full 17 games.
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The Browns are painting themselves into a corner where next year is going to look a lot like this one ..
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KS has 18 wins in two years... how many Browns' HCs have done that?
I think he took a step back this year and did a few tings that I didn't agree with.... but there's no way I want to change HCs again after this year... No kidding. There were people here who wanted to keep a coach with the worst record in NFL history to see what he could do with "real players". Let's see if KS learned anything from his sophomore slump.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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KS has 18 wins in two years... how many Browns' HCs have done that?
I think he took a step back this year and did a few tings that I didn't agree with.... but there's no way I want to change HCs again after this year... No kidding. There were people here who wanted to keep a coach with the worst record in NFL history to see what he could do with "real players". Let's see if KS learned anything from his sophomore slump. Agree 100% with these two posts. As regards Keenum. I gotta question anyone who watched the game he played in this year and think he is a candidate for being our starter next year. If he throws the ball with more than 20-25 air yards on a single play today I would be shocked, and if he does I expect it to look like a wounded duck.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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KS has 18 wins in two years... how many Browns' HCs have done that?
I think he took a step back this year and did a few tings that I didn't agree with.... but there's no way I want to change HCs again after this year... No kidding. There were people here who wanted to keep a coach with the worst record in NFL history to see what he could do with "real players". Let's see if KS learned anything from his sophomore slump. Agree 100% with these two posts. As regards Keenum. I gotta question anyone who watched the game he played in this year and think he is a candidate for being our starter next year. If he throws the ball with more than 20-25 air yards on a single play today I would be shocked, and if he does I expect it to look like a wounded duck. Stefanski likes using TEs for 5-10 yard plays... OBJ left because it didn't appear there were balls thrown 20-25 yards in the air... maybe 20-25 yards past the open receiver..
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Legend
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KS has 18 wins in two years... how many Browns' HCs have done that?
I think he took a step back this year and did a few tings that I didn't agree with.... but there's no way I want to change HCs again after this year... No kidding. There were people here who wanted to keep a coach with the worst record in NFL history to see what he could do with "real players". Let's see if KS learned anything from his sophomore slump. Agree 100% with these two posts. As regards Keenum. I gotta question anyone who watched the game he played in this year and think he is a candidate for being our starter next year. If he throws the ball with more than 20-25 air yards on a single play today I would be shocked, and if he does I expect it to look like a wounded duck. Keenum is pretty terrible. He knows how to run the offense successfully but is not physically talented enough to do things to win games. I would love to replace him with someone who can actually push Baker. Mariota would be ideal.
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If Keenum goes absolutely bananas in this game and KS calls a wide open game, then you might be on to something. So giving a much healthier QB a more open game plan indicates such? It looks like conspiracies have taken over common sense.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If Keenum goes absolutely bananas in this game and KS calls a wide open game, then you might be on to something. I think it would be wise to discard any conclusions that are reached because of this game.
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J/C
IMO if Baker goes, it is on him.
If he had played better over the last 4 years, we wouldn't be talking about this.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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At this point this game means as much as a spring training game in baseball.
The players have their bags packed for someplace where it is warm.
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Keenum is pretty terrible. He knows how to run the offense successfully but is not physically talented enough to do things to win games. I would love to replace him with someone who can actually push Baker. Mariota would be ideal. Agree Keenum is pretty bad but knows the offense. I like Mariota coming out of college. He's done less than Baker and he's been on better teams to my mind - how fair that is I don't know. The guy I think would push Baker and might be perfect for a KS offense is Garoppolo, but I don't know if he can stay healthy and if you got JG it would be to move on from Baker which I am not willing to do yet.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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If Keenum goes absolutely bananas in this game and KS calls a wide open game, then you might be on to something. So giving a much healthier QB a more open game plan indicates such? It looks like conspiracies have taken over common sense. Neither of these things were going to happen. Healthy Keenum wasn't impressive, and was sporadically impacted by some poor plays by his catchers. KS seemed to get the run game going pretty well.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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It was announced that Baker will be the starter next year.
This whole notion of your's is out of whack.
Frankly, I don't how to reply.
Tab, you need to really think this through.
Ok its not him trying to get rid of Baker but then its just a case of terrible coaching. No adjusting his system to work best under Bakers abilities. Why is it Whacky to question our coaching all of a sudden. Why did we not have a scheme to adjust and create throwing lanes instead it seemed play after play in the Steeler game they were knocking down or up Baker's passes. What QB was it said (when Baker came on the scene and blew people away with his production. Hmmm oh right Drew Brees) His entire game is coinciding with throwing lanes - does our coach not have the sophistication in his schemes to create throwing Lanes - Even when they aren't knocking passes down Baker had to throw too high to have a shot. Just so many little things that don't add up. You don't know how to reply so I must be Whacko? or my opinion must be whacky? I mean don't agree with what I'm saying - which is almost impossible to disagree. These are facts that I see happening and what I'm asking is not for you to see what I see although fact is a fact my question simply is WHY? Why didn't we dominate teams with runs when Baker was in there. We did so with Case at QB and also the game with Mullens at QB...those two games we ran the ball the way we should run the ball.
I did miss that declaration of Baker being our starting QB...I read the official website but no mention of it at all. And still I would like to see Ski back Baker so that the kid doesn't have some sort of confidence break down which I do see. But after his surgery and rehab he will be back in great form and will be our franchise QB. Now is the time to sign him long term where it won't cost an arm and a leg. The media looks for any reason to break up the Browns - We got the makings of a great team. Injuries and Covid hurt us last year a little more than other teams I think. Either Baker is our QB and we support him 100% or he isn't and we must wander the Desert for another 22 years looking for that QB.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,459 Likes: 1014 |
How soon we forget.
Everyone knows about the quarterback "shirt." The great list of failures.
How about the "coaches list?"
At some point a organization has to stick with a head coach through thick and thin times.
Look at the careers of Hall of Fame coaches. Does anyone believe that any of them did not have bitter disappointments?
In football hardly anything goes the way you would like them to. One team wins the Super Bowl. The rest of the teams are disappointed no matter their record.
Play calling. I have heard fans gripe about play calling for over fifty years. It doesn't matter who was doing it.
Kevin Stefanski has two years under his belt now as a head coach. Did any other coach in the history of football have to face Covid in their first two years on top of business as usual? Does anyone think that has been an easy obsticle to deal with?
Stefanski's record is 20-15 with a playoff win. Look at that record again and let it sink in.
Now try and remember the last head coach of the Browns with a winning record.
Paul Brown, Blanton Collier, Nick Scorich, Marty Schottenheimer that's it.
So all this bs about fire KS give me a effing break. Yeah sure he was trying to lose games to get rid of Baker.
You don't become a head coach in the NFL and all of sudden know everything. It is a learning process and it is difficult. It does not come easy or happen in one or two years.
We have a good bright young head coach and GM. And we should thrilled to have them.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
I am not the sum of other posters history. I'm not one who has had a history of questioning the calls of our coaches. If I do have a history it is one of defending the coaches and promoting that we stick with the coach. Which I do not wish for us to fire Ski maybe as some have suggested is that we get a play caller for game day management???
I just would like to hear some ANSWERS on these happenings and decisions??? If not from the coaches which what are the odds that would happen (slim to none) but then from fans like yourself...in Gosh name why did we do those things. Can you explain the thought process - I have not read any articles answering but several asking the same questions that I have??? Why? is all I ask.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,625 Likes: 590
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,625 Likes: 590 |
I said before - I think it was crappy coaching and KS showing his ass to the world. Hopefully he learns and gets better.
That's really it in a nutshell. Two choices: [A] Crappy Coaching - with bad decisions about how to adjust and negate the strength of your opponent .... OR .... [B] a douchebag, scumbag head coach who no player would ever want to play for because he deliberately sabotaged his TEAM's chances of winning and deliberately called plays that had a high chance of hurting his QB. Which is more likely? .... I say [A] all the way. There is so much for KS to lose as a 2nd year HC calling plays intended to expose/hurt his QB and lose a winnable game.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,459 Likes: 1014
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,459 Likes: 1014 |
There is no issue with questioning any head coach.
That is what fans do. Sure I thought the same thing why is Hudson on a island alone? I posted it in Post Game. Why were we not prepared for Hudson versus Watt?
I also stated right after the New England game that KS got schooled by a master.
I don't have answers to why this play or that play. Or, other things I may disagree with.
At the same time from experience I know coaches have "way more" information about all that goes on inside their team than we do.
I do not believe any coaches lose intentially. Nor do they plot with the owner to get rid of their quarterback who happened to win a playoff game the year before.
Fans have a right to cringe when Pete Carroll calls a pass play from the two yard when Marshawn Lynch is their back.
Whatever that does not make them bad coaches.
Stefanski is in second year. He will make mistakes. At the same time he is not above being self critical and learning from errors.
No different than Baker has to learn from his mistakes. I don't hear from you let's flush Baker. You seem to have patience when it comes to him.
And for the record if you read my takes on Baker. I have patience with Baker. I think we can win with him. At the same time I know he must improve.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147 |
I still think part of the issue is calling plays. When he's busy calling plays he is oblivious to the other things happening and often causing , or contributing to, the failed execution.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I still think part of the issue is calling plays. When he's busy calling plays he is oblivious to the other things happening and often causing , or contributing to, the failed execution. So in 2020 he knew how to do it but forgot in 2021? People are bending over backwards to figure out what went wrong when the answer is right in front of them. The QB was one of the worst in the league.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147 |
I still think part of the issue is calling plays. When he's busy calling plays he is oblivious to the other things happening and often causing , or contributing to, the failed execution. So in 2020 he knew how to do it but forgot in 2021? People are bending over backwards to figure out what went wrong when the answer is right in front of them. The QB was one of the worst in the league. I thought he did some stupid calls last year to, which I attributed at the time of being too focused on the next play and not seeing the bigger picture.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Stefanski looking to rid us of
Baker???
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