DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Possible trades

Not sure we could trade Hooper. I think Hooper is good, but not so good that teams might trade for him IMO. We haven't kept his value high by not using him enough.

Hunt on the other hand is very tradable. I would do it in a minute if we got a decent pick or player for the guy. As you mentioned, D Johnso is not only good, IMO he could be a #1 back. We need to sign him. I would keep him over Hunt.

I don't want to trade Hunt, he's too central to our offensive strength. I like D'Ernest, but he should not be mentioned in the same breath as Chubb and Hunt, who are 1a and 1b at RB, IMO. If you ask me the most important things missing from our offense in 2021 vs 2020, I'd say a healthy Mayfield and a healthy Hunt. As far as Hooper goes, I can't see anyone wanting him, so we're probably stuck with him.

I think Hooper is untradeable. He's average and he's expensive.

I think Hunt is too valuable to trade. By a slim margin he's not as good as Chubb in my book - but he's significantly better than Johnson who is still very good as a backup. Chubb Hunt is like the very best RB duo in the league. Don't weaken a strength.

I think trading Hunt is all the "analytics is da DEVIL" crowd needs to go nuclear for a few weeks.

I think our best bet of losing Hooper will be finding a team with a young QB that needs catchers. We'd still have to eat a bunch of money, but I still like it to get Njoku better snaps.

Hunt brings a ton to the passing game. He also brings more to the running game when he's not injured (which is probably why he was ahead of Johnson prior to injury?).

My guess is that teams won’t be giving up much for a 27 year old running back, who has some baggage, on the last year of his contract.

The value Hunt brings to the team likely exceeds anything we’d receive in compensation.

I agree. For me, the Browns keeping D'Ernest beyond the RFA thing would be if he also was a primary PR as well as spelling Hunt. I know we tried Johnson on special teams a couple seasons ago, and it was less than spectacular. Teams have seen the impressive tape on him, and some team will offer him more than we are willing to match or surpass, imo.

I wish we could keep him simply as RB#3 (as insurance against injury and spelling), but I just don't see it.

I think you're where I am on this. The value placed on a player is dependent on how you use him on your team. We use Johnson as our #3 RB. I think when he becomes a FA other teams may value his talent higher based on their current RB situation. In such a scenario I think they will see his value much higher than we do. I think the cost of signing him will be prohibitive based on his position in our depth chart.

It's important to remember that every year there's a rebuild for some part - or positions on the team. Young guys coming in to eventually displace the aging vet, injuries, open spots - and so on. You also have to be aware of the trends. A true franchise QB can hold that spot for 15 years. A RB though has an average shelf life on 4.5 years in the NFL. Chubb entered the league on a bad wheel but recovered. Chubb missed 7 games as a rookie, 4 games in 2020 and 2 games this past season. Hunt missed 7 games this year. Johnson missed 1 game in 2021. The point here is that at the start of next season, all three will be 26 years old and their injuries have had an impact on the offense. Chubb isn't going anywhere and most likely Hunt neither but as a team, the GM has to be thinking about the future. This might be a good time to draft a RB in the second round depending on what happens in FA. I know, I know - you can give me a multitude of players that played RB 10 plus years but for every one of those guys there's 10 times as many who did not. I not saying get rid of Chubb and Hunt or replace them, but it might be time to be looking toward the future and get a new young buck in the stable. Just a thought.

As far as trades, the Browns players that could be trade bait are the ones with unfriendly contracts. Paying a portion of their salary just to trade them is not a good move either. Hooper is here next year due to the cap hit. Bryant has shown improvement and is very young. Njoku is a FA that made 6 million in 2021. I would be shocked and amazed if he was looking for anything less than 8-9 million per year. With a healthy Baker, a revamped WR group, and an injury free line - I would expect (for heaven's sake hope) that the Browns won't be running 3 TE sets 18% of their plays like they did in 2021. In fact, considering how teams defended the Browns during those sets I would expect little to no 3 TE sets. That would mean that at best you would see 2 TE sets at a league average meaning someone is pulling pine duty. Njoku's performance over the last 5-years means he should be the odd man out. Add in the contract issue and I suspect Njoku is gone. I also don't think you can trade Landry with his contract, and I don't have a good feeling about him restructuring it in his final year. I suspect that Landry will be released due to contract issues especially if the Browns hit the FA WR market heavy - if they can appeal to those guys.

This.

Also, the Browns should just place a 2nd round tender D'Ernest. No team will sign him and give up a 2nd round pick and he'd only cost $3.5M. He gives the Browns additional insurance and you can sign him longer term after Hunt is gone after the 2022 season.

j/c...

There's no actual huge difference in upside between Hunt and Johnson, besides experience -- the fact the Hunt has always played at a high level. I'll still take Hunt's plus-level athleticism, bulldog mentality and flair for game-changing plays. It matters.

So that makes Johnson seem like "odd man out".

Johnson is probably more valuable to another team. But honestly, he had solid success and consistent production for us last year:

100 for 534yds (5.3) 3TD
19 catches 137yds

Compared to Hunt:

78 for 386yds (4.9) 5TD
22 catches 174yds

So unless you're sure neither Hunt, nor Chubb, will be injured at any point next season, RB3 seems like an important role in our offense.


So what does it cost to keep D'ernest Johnson?

Stay ahead of the curve in an area you've already "won". There would be absolutely no issue with a 3 yr / 9-10M contract. It's 2 million per year more that you pay that roster spot anyway. Is 2M some drastic negative effect to a team with 32M in cap space?

And then... you'll either find you made a great decision because you need him. Or still retain his upside in a trade proposition, rather then waving goodbye to him for nothing.

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Obvious disclaimer is the imaginary contract I proposed, anyone care to gander at his market value?

Perfect solution.

Is 3.5M too much? I don't think so.

Man, trying to figure out his market value is a tough one. If a team looks at him as their answer to their #1 RB it could be pretty high. If that happens I certainly feel it would be a huge obstacle to us matching such an offer.

I agree. He's supported that case. He not only put up those season numbers, he also showcased his "bell cow" virtue three times this season:

DENVER 22 /146 /6.6 /1
CINCY 25 /123 /4.9/ 1
NEW ENGLAND 19 /99 /5.2... plus 7 of 8 targets for 58

If another team trusts the sample size, I could see a much larger offer than we would care to accommodate.

I'd go with Milk's 2nd round tender and make sure I get paid back for his upside regardless. It's 2.5M more than that roster spot costs anyway.

I am not sure Cleveland has many of any trade value players. Ward is a likely possibility, but otherwise, I don't think Cleveland has the established talent to invite a trade. That is not saying Cleveland has no talent. I am saying Berry is working on building depth and have not established a well-rounded position. The corner position is getting there maybe safety.

Berry is still working on getting the foundation of this team built. From what I can see, they are focusing on DE and DBs on the defense side. On offense, I am not sure we can really tell. The QB position is without saying. Money was spent on OL and TE. I think the TE position is used to supplement the OL but is that a priority moving forward. It seems so far defense is where the most emphasis is placed.

I think it is telling where Berry thinks he can obtain talent simply look at where he is making one-year deals, and where he is drafting positions. Clowney is the exception. The draft is a little hard telling where the emphasis is placed since we saw Berry work two.

Agreed.

Hooper signed a big contract based on what he did before. While his opportunities are down here, he simply hasn't done enough with the chances he was given. He hasn't earned more targets, he drops too many of the ones he does get. I do not see anyone taking that albatross off our hands, I think we should cut him. It will save some cash, and get targets to players who can do something with them.

As to Hunt, I'm with you. I think he is too valuable to trade, in the sense that what we can get for him is not more than the value he brings to the team. RBs don't hold their value.

Now, question.
Who! could the Browns possibly trade, where, after the trade, the Browns would be a better team?

In the last 12 months, two players have been traded in the league that could have made the Browns better.

Julio Jones, wide receiver was traded from the Falcons to the Titans.
and
Zach Ertz, Tight end was traded from the Eagles to the Arizona Cardinals.

Other than that, I don't think the Browns are going to be able to trade for anyone where they would be better off after the trade.

After the season we just had, you want to push contributors to our running game (and passing game) out the door? Unless you're looking to land Matt Ryan, I don't see why we would want to further gut this team of talent

I agree.
A TON of teams would love to add Kareem Hunt to their roster. TEN would prob love to add 27 to their roster, to supplement their own version of Nick Chubb. They might have beaten CIN today, if they had that extra weapon.

My point: Today- right now- the Cleveland Browns already have Kareem Hunt on their roster.
We are the team that others want to be: top 10 OL, with a knockout 1-2 punch in the backfield.

Why would we give away an essential proven asset for a sack of magic beans?


Now is not the time to be thinking of Kareem Hunt's trade value. Now is the time to use Kareem Hunt on a football field. If other teams would like to have him, we should keep him.
Now is the time to be inking him to a 1-2 year gig with escalators, and ride that wild child style of his right through this window. We've put together 2/3 of a championship caliber team. Kareem Hunt can be an integral part of a real serious run in the next year or two.

Assembling that last third would be severely hampered by having to replace 27's production.

Occam's razor wins here, imho: take the straightest path to the goal.

Jc

Every time I see this thread I go to it expecting to see a discussion about who we are going to trade for. Always disappointed to see talk about who we are going to trade away .

I really don't think we trade anyone away because the guys we want to get rid if are guys who's performance doesn't meet their contract. Nobody will trade for these guys. We will either keep them or release them. The other guys like Hunt have talent and an affordable contract. Why would we get rid of him?

The one exception is if we we trade for a qb and throw Baker in.

My reasoning is we can sign Johnson, we won't sign Hunt after next year. He will cost too much, thus we trade him and get value, or we let him walk and get nothing. I trade him.

Hunt is due to make 6.250 million.

If we are going to take a risk on WR I'd rather take it in the draft. Use a 2nd round pick on Jameson Williams, the Alabama receiver who tore his ACL. I'm more confident in a complete recovery from that injury than anything as unpredictable as Ridley's mental health issues. The Eagles have (3) 1st round picks this year (15, 16, 19), maybe we could trade down with them from 13 to 19 and pick up their 2nd rounder to grab Williams.

They might be set at RB2 with that Foreman guy. He was in beast mode yesterday. I wish they would have fed him the ball more yesterday, as Henry was obviously rusty.

Keep Hunt, ship D'Earnest. Or ship none of them. Felton does not impress me, and D'Earnest is a good back and could start or be number two somewhere else, but Nick and Kareem are our best by far. If the Browns make team friendly deals with both to keep them together a while longer, I'd prefer that. Honestly, some days I'd rather have Kareem out there than Nick. Chubb is a ground and pound back with an elite breakaway second gear, great vision, and great decision-making. Hunt is a bit less ground and pound, and more finesse, quick reads and cuts, good inside, better outside, and also has second gear breakaway speed. Some defenses do better against Chubb than Hunt, and vice versa. Don't get me wrong, Chubb is our stud, I just think Hunt is a stud in his own right and a bit more versatile than Nick. So I'd hate to trade him for a ham sandwich.

Isn't that what we're doing here?

Maybe folks need to look at Hunt for 2020 ( A full season )

2020 Cleveland Browns 16 games 198 carries 841 yards 4.3 per carry 6TD

38 catches 304 yads 5TD

So let me get this straight - going after a current mental issue Ridley who in 2020 (he quit in 2021) had 90 receptions and 1374 yards with a 15.3 y/r avg would be a positive move for the Browns? The same Cleveland Browns that went out and signed a TE to the largest TE contract ever for his 2 previous years where he averaged 93 targets, with 73 receptions for 724 yards with a 9.92 y/r avg and 2 consecutive Pro Bowl nodes and then put him in an offensive scheme that reduced his target average the last 2-years to 65 (31% reduction), 42 receptions (42% reduction) for 390 yards (46% reduction) with a 9.29 y/r avg (6.4% reduction)? I mean the Browns went out and paid big money for Hooper to which they immediately cut his targets and receptions nearly in half. What the hell are you going to be posting here when Ridley puts up numbers 40-50% lower than his 2020 stats you're drooling over?

Ridley, or any other FA WR for that fact, is not going to sign with the Browns knowing the current offensive scheme is going to reduce their targets and receptions between 30-50 percent.

OBJ was a self-centered a-hole in my book but let's not confuse what happened with OBJ. The Browns just completed a playoff appearance of 2-games and had the 5th rated QB in the NFL. OBJ went to the FO and demanded a trade in the spring - early summer timeframe. His issues had nothing to do with Baker Mayfield - hell, he only played in the first 7 games of 2020. It's also common knowledge that as a team, the Browns performed better without OBJ. The breaking point is how he was used in 2019 (pre Stefanski), OBJ had 133 targets, 74 receptions, 1035 yards with a 13.99 y/r avg. That worked out to 8.31 targets, 4.63 receptions for 64.69 yards with a 13.99 y/r avg per game in 2019. Stefanski arrives and though only playing 7 games due to injury, OBJ's per game average for targets dropped to 6.14 (26% reduction), 3.29 receptions (29% reduction) for 44.57 yards (29.6% reduction) with a 13.55 y/r avg (3.2% reduction) per game in 2021. OBJ seen a 30% reduction in receptions from 2019 to 2020 which had a huge bearing on his requesting a trade before the 2021 season even started.

Look, Stefanski chased Diggs out of Minnesota due to his play calling. It appears he's chased OBJ out of Cleveland for the same reason. Posters here are calling for Hooper's head yet Stefanski is doing the exact same thing to him. As a fan, you might be completely comfortable with Stefanski's scheme. However, top notch WR's or QB's for that matter if it floats your boat, are not going to consider Cleveland as a landing spot to be utilized 30 - 50% less than what they are used playing. If the Browns are not going to build to the skill sets of the player's then plan on keeping the lower tier players because the top tiers won't be coming to Cleveland. Not with a scheme that has your QB in the bottom 30% of the league in attempts and your usage will receive the same fate.

I agree. Receivers only shine if the ball is thrown to them. Be it offensive scheme, the QB, or some of both.

I will make an early prediction that probably will annoy a lot of supporters on this forum.

Kevin Stefanski hasn’t so far showed anything that reminds me of a coming elite coach. Nothing in his role as a head coach or play caller gives indication that he can take this team to a conference win, not to mention a Super Bowl. Beating a old and injured Big Ben don’t count in my book. I’m officially #Skiout2022