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PitDAWG #1921970 01/26/22 02:48 PM
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Oh, I agree with you. I'm just saying that if that's how the draft falls (somehow), it actually wouldn't be the worst thing in the world given our short (and long) term RT situation and how much we've used 6 OL plays in the past.


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PitDAWG #1921979 01/26/22 03:20 PM
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It's not just depth, though. It's planning for the future. It's uncertain, I think, that Conklin plays a significant amount here next year, and with his injury it is questionable that he is ready in time or whether he can play at the level we need him to play.
It's generally 6 months to recovery, but 12 months before you're "optimal" following a patellar tendon rupture (and then he may also be getting a surgical repair for that triceps, too... we don't know).
On top of that, his contract voids after 2022, so unless he is 101% recovered and plays at a Pro Bowl level, we likely won't be sending another contract his way unless he is to become the Swing Tackle following 2022.
So, the prudent move is to get a new RT now when we're actually positioned pretty darn well to grab one.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

cfrs15 #1921984 01/26/22 03:30 PM
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Plan B could be to move Bitonio out to LT and sign a FA LG, or pick one in a later round of the draft -not in the 1st round. Wills could return to his familiar RT spot. I think Bitonio graded out really well when we used him at LT this past season

Dave #1921987 01/26/22 03:38 PM
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Free agency aside; If you have a bonified LT sitting there at 13 and a bonified DT sittin , you might just flip a coin ! lol

cfrs15 #1921993 01/26/22 03:59 PM
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W I D E Receiver!

waterdawg #1921996 01/26/22 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by waterdawg
Free agency aside; If you have a bonified LT sitting there at 13 and a bonified DT sittin , you might just flip a coin ! lol


You might, but I think DT would have to get the nod. A DT who can collapse the pocket would be huge.


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PrplPplEater #1921999 01/26/22 04:12 PM
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I just believe that for one thing, it's not even possible to know where we are and what we need until the FA signing period is complete. And secondly, as it stands today, without re-signing players whose contracts are expiring it appears that our DL is certainly a much more immediate need with that first round pick.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Milk Man #1922003 01/26/22 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...

Dane Brugler Mock Draft 2.0 willynilly

13. Cleveland Browns — Treylon Burks, WR, Arkansas

The Browns passing offense desperately needs another playmaker and Burks has the ability to create big plays. He has an outstanding blend of size (6-3, 228) and speed (4.45) with the tracking skills and catch radius to be a quarterback’s best friend. Burks, who led the SEC with 22 plays of 20-plus yards in 2021, reminds me of a linebacker-sized Deebo Samuel.

44. Cleveland Browns — Drake Jackson, edge, USC
I like this kid a lot...


For his size, Burks has deceptive speed and can make a lot of defenders miss in the open field. He’s also an extremely physical receiver, showcasing Derrick Henry-like stiff arms.

Here’s more on his strengths, per Oliver Hodgkinson of Pro Football Network:

“Burks contains deceptive speed, which, combined with his size, makes him a handful in coverage. Additionally, he is extremely fluid in his movements. This allows him to ghost through soft spots in coverage, often resulting in chunk plays for Arkansas’ offense.

The unique combination of size, speed, and athleticism allows Burks to produce yardage after the catch consistently. It’s rare to see him brought down on the first contact.

Finally, Burks’ versatility should only add value to his NFL Draft stock. Although Burks took most of his snaps out of the slot, he has experience out wide and in the backfield. Arkansas uses him in motion, and there are even examples of him aligned on the end of the offensive line as if he were a tight end.”


Weaknesses

Despite having huge hands — Burks has custom 5XL size gloves — he can lapse into complacency, resulting in some frustrating drops. Other scouts have concerns about a high-motor to finish plays.

Brian Lamb of NFL Draft Lounge goes into greater detail:

“His blocking is inconsistent and he has a tendency to give up on blocks before the play is over. At times, Burks will round off some of his routes, giving up the space create from his quickness off the line of scrimmage. Finally, he has an inconsistent motor when he’s not the intended target and will give up on plays before they’re over.”


https://titanswire.usatoday.com/lists/2022-nfl-draft-titans-treylon-burks-scouting-report/


Weaknesses seem coachable. Can't coach that athleticism and size into many other candidates.

Baker needs a big, reliable target. Someone that opens the window much higher and helps him "trust his eyes".

Upside? Our own Deebo, with more speed, size and strength... and a Nick Chubb-sized stiff arm.

Hype is hype, but watch some YT vids, dude makes some unbelievable catches and makes most everything look easy.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
Ballpeen #1922007 01/26/22 04:25 PM
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I agree on the DT being a big, big hole for us but ( wait for it lol ) don't know if I could walk by a Big time for sur LT ... I really count on handful of our posters when it comes to College players and the Draft. Only so much College ball I have tome to watch.

PitDAWG #1922008 01/26/22 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I just believe that for one thing, it's not even possible to know where we are and what we need until the FA signing period is complete. And secondly, as it stands today, without re-signing players whose contracts are expiring it appears that our DL is certainly a much more immediate need with that first round pick.

And for the "Analytics" haters out there, this is why we have them around.
They can look at all of the players hitting free agency and all of the players coming the draft, and they can model the best paths to take ... e.g. sign this guy, draft that guy.
They have grades on every player out there, and I'd be surprised if they don't have secondary grades specific to how they'd fit within our schemes, and they can roll all of that into the models and then start talking to agents to explore whether or not a FA is even a possibility to come here. If not, he gets removed from the models, if he might, then he gets priority in the models based on their grades. It also lets the models start looking at what it might look like in terms of cap & contracts, how that changes the look for the coming year, etc... and we can then prioritize the moves that net us the best outcomes.

BUT, in the absence of anything happening in Free Agency, yet, I'm still more in favor of taking an OT. We saw how poorly our offense performs without Conklin and we're looking strongly at starting the season without him, and we're looking beyond next season - almost guaranteed - to be without him, and I don't think Hudson is the long-term answer there. We need an OT and Hudson can be the Swing.

Now, all of this is absent any sort of player grades... if the DT sitting there at 13 is graded way higher than whatever OT, then we ABSOLUTELY go with the DT. It's all about the conjunction of Need, BPA, Fit.

Last edited by PrplPplEater; 01/26/22 04:33 PM.

Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

PrplPplEater #1922011 01/26/22 04:46 PM
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I don't really disagree with you. That's why it's so very hard to know with any degree of accuracy what positions we will be most in need of heading into the draft. Because as we've seen, need and position play a consideration in the draft. While I certainly also agree that we have anybody waiting in the wings at the RT spot, I think it's too early to give up on the likes of Hudson as being the long term answer. I think what they see as the progress and potential of guys like Hudson moving forward will also have an impact in their decision.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PrplPplEater #1922014 01/26/22 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
And for the "Analytics" haters out there,
I think 'haters' could have been in the singular form. tongue


On a side note, for anyone hoping we draft in OT with the 13th overall pick, I'd say the chances of that happening are zero point zero, considering the amount of money already tied up in the OL. Especially, considering the contracts just given out both Bitonio and Teller and the recent high investment in Wills. I'd be surprised to see them even go after an OL in the second round let alone the first.

FATE #1922018 01/26/22 05:24 PM
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I like the versatility, but those weaknesses are hard to get past. IMO, if you put together a list of qualities from a starting WR that will NOT work in this offense, it would be that section of his writeup.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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oobernoober #1922029 01/26/22 06:09 PM
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I have always been one to say never go into the draft and say we will take position X.

Maybe when you have the first pick and you don't have a quarterback and Andrew Luck is there.

But as a rule keep you options open. Your hope is that your biggest need intersects with the BPA.

With that being said: Check out this film study.

https://watchstadium.com/videos/liberty-qb-malik-willis-film-study/

oobernoober #1922033 01/26/22 06:26 PM
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I don't know bro. As to the first part, "hands" are obviously a prerequisite to being a solid WR, but everyone drops passes. Sounds more like maybe someone over-analyzing as everyone drops passes from time to time. For Njoku, all it really took was Landry calling him out on Hard Knocks and telling him he better "hit the jugs machine". The same Landry that dropped two critical 4th quarter passes against the Steelers for the first nail in our coffin this year. Drops happen. (and yes, I know, Njoku is still not the poster child for "sure handed").

As to the rest, that's where you dive a little deeper... almost along the lines of "teammates didn't come to his birthday party" lol. Is he some arrogant a-hole that thinks those things don't matter or is he a work in progress?

Every year around this time we have the "experts" (not picking on you) tell us what is correctable and what is not. Mahomes and Allen were "way too raw"... and that's nearly every analyst talking.

I argued that Allen was generational talent. The experts here (and everywhere else) patted me on the head and told me accuracy was NOT correctable. I countered that it didn't even matter -- Give me Paul Bunyan in the AFC North, a QB that can make any throw to any part of the field, on the run... can run around you or over you and jump up with a smile on his face... every third and short is a first down, runs like Rob Gronkowski in the open field... Would you trade that for 2.2 bad passes a game? Didn't have to... his completion percentage and accuracy have improved drastically, 52.8 his rookie year, 63.3 this year (69% last year).

It's all a crapshoot. Invest in the things that truly can't be coached (size, speed, athleticism) and let the chips fall where they may. Obviously behind plenty of due diligence.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
bonefish #1922036 01/26/22 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
I have always been one to say never go into the draft and say we will take position X.

Maybe when you have the first pick and you don't have a quarterback and Andrew Luck is there.

But as a rule keep you options open. Your hope is that your biggest need intersects with the BPA.

With that being said: Check out this film study.

https://watchstadium.com/videos/liberty-qb-malik-willis-film-study/

Uh oh

cfrs15 #1922041 01/26/22 07:22 PM
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It is very early in the process.

Malik Willis played his high school ball about ten minutes from my home.

I want Baker to play this year.

However, that would not stop me from drafting a quarterback in the first round "if" I loved the guy.

Quarterbacks have been successful in the NFL with many different skills. Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Lamar.

Mobility and real run skills with arm talent, decision making, and accuracy adds a different dimension.

The Bears are all in with Justin Fields. The 49ers gave up a lot to move up and take Trey Lance.

The Chiefs /Bills game Mahomes and Allen led their teams in rushing.

You don't want to be a GM and five years down the road think "damn, I wish I would have" because you were looking for a receiver.

bonefish #1922044 01/26/22 07:39 PM
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Let’s just say I’ve been watching a lot of Malik Willis lately. . .

cfrs15 #1922045 01/26/22 08:06 PM
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Check

cfrs15 #1922054 01/26/22 08:46 PM
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It looks to me like Willis has a strong arm and a quick release and is very athletic. The criticism I heard (that I can neither confirm nor deny because I just don't know) is that there are questoins about his decision making. My impression is that he could be very good in the right system. I actually thing he would thrive in Baltimore's Lamar Jackson system. I however so not think he would be a great fit for the Stefanski offense. JMO


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Jester #1922062 01/26/22 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester
It looks to me like Willis has a strong arm and a quick release and is very athletic. The criticism I heard (that I can neither confirm nor deny because I just don't know) is that there are questoins about his decision making. My impression is that he could be very good in the right system. I actually thing he would thrive in Baltimore's Lamar Jackson system. I however so not think he would be a great fit for the Stefanski offense. JMO

The reason I became interested in Willis was because I was listening to a podcast where they discussed him a bit and they said he was a great fit for our scheme.

cfrs15 #1922064 01/26/22 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Let’s just say I’ve been watching a lot of Malik Willis lately. . .

Berry is going to have to trade down to get him...... and I wouldn't hate it.

cfrs15 #1922080 01/26/22 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Jester
It looks to me like Willis has a strong arm and a quick release and is very athletic. The criticism I heard (that I can neither confirm nor deny because I just don't know) is that there are questoins about his decision making. My impression is that he could be very good in the right system. I actually thing he would thrive in Baltimore's Lamar Jackson system. I however so not think he would be a great fit for the Stefanski offense. JMO

The reason I became interested in Willis was because I was listening to a podcast where they discussed him a bit and they said he was a great fit for our scheme.

I don't know who said that but I would disagree.
If they are right and I am wrong, I wouldn't have an issue taking him at #13


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Jester #1922085 01/27/22 12:25 AM
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It was Dane Brugler and Lance Zierlein on The Athletic Football Show. They said it and then I watched some Willis highlights. I then imagined Willis rolling out on a bootleg and then taking off for 30 yards.

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Those guys tend to know their stuff. I still disagree with them.
The only way to know which one of us is correct is for the Browns to draft Willis.
If we do, I hope I am epically wrong.

Last edited by Jester; 01/27/22 05:37 AM.

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He's my #1 choice at receiver.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Ballpeen #1922096 01/27/22 07:42 AM
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So far for me the receivers I like are:

Burks and Drake London.

I like power forward type receivers that win 50/50 balls and high point the pass.

The NFL is loaded with fast corners. Really hard to get separation. You have to fight for the ball.

The back shoulder pass is deadly to try and cover. I really like the physical type receivers.

There are a few guys like Hill that have serious quickness to separate but they are rare.

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We have that extra 3rd rounder this year....I would use it to draft Cade York, K LSU.

Let's just fix that position. The kid has been clutch, accurate, and has the leg from around 60 yards.

Let's just fix the dadgum position. Use the 3rd rounder we didn't have last week and fix the position rather than monkey around hoping someone falls to the 6th or 7th round. York will probably go 4th round, 5th for sure. Just take the guy.


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I think decision-making can be improved so long as the QB has the capability to process what he's seeing quickly.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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oobernoober #1922112 01/27/22 09:58 AM
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I read where Todd McShay said Mahomes made him evaluate quarterbacks differently.

I used to have this argument with vers.

Look more at what a quarterback can do well than what he does not so well.

Look at the ceiling. Mahomes and Allen are now in a separate class because of the xtra things they bring to the table.

I heard Tomlin he is looking forward to evaluating quarterbacks and mobility counts.

When a quarterback is in third and long from the shotgun and runs a quarterback draw for 30 yards. It scares defenses. They have to honor that ability or get killed by it. As Any Reid says "when it is grim: be the grim reaper."

Malik Willis adds a dimension. I have a lot more looking to do before I would say draft him. But he has my attention.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
We have that extra 3rd rounder this year....I would use it to draft Cade York, K LSU.

I’ve banged the drum for Cade York as well.

A quality kicker matters.

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I think Malik Willis has a ceiling like Mahomes and Allen. He’s likely going to move up quite a bit on the draft boards as the draft nears. I don’t think any other QB in the draft has a ceiling as high as Willis.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
I think Malik Willis has a ceiling like Mahomes and Allen. He’s likely going to move up quite a bit on the draft boards as the draft nears. I don’t think any other QB in the draft has a ceiling as high as Willis.

Bingo. I’ll buy the Malik Willis lottery ticket over anything else at this point.

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If the Browns take WR at 13 and he's available...Garrett Wilson is my choice. I think he's the best WR in the draft with Jameson Williams second, but he has the injury to rehab.

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He will be gone before #13 - most likely. Too many teams drafting ahead of the Browns that need a QB.

See: Redskins, Falcons, Lions, Panthers, Giants, Panthers, Broncos, etc.

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Long way to go.

Willis will be broken apart under a thick magnifying glass. He played for Liberty.

His tape is not all good. He makes mistakes.

The evaluation process is long. Lots to look at. He maybe the first quarterback taken. He may not be.

Over the next three months his game will be broken down.

With that said. I love his upside. He can do things many can not.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
We have that extra 3rd rounder this year....I would use it to draft Cade York, K LSU.

Let's just fix that position. The kid has been clutch, accurate, and has the leg from around 60 yards.

Let's just fix the dadgum position. Use the 3rd rounder we didn't have last week and fix the position rather than monkey around hoping someone falls to the 6th or 7th round. York will probably go 4th round, 5th for sure. Just take the guy.
Whoah! It's not very often 'Peen drops the "dadgum"! Get 'er done Mr. Berry!


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Williams will be a bust imo. he is your typical body catcher. I think he should go in the 3rd round. Wilson's hands and ability to high point the ball are really, really good.


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bonefish #1922211 01/27/22 05:00 PM
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Daniel Jeremiah - NFL Network

The pick: EDGE Travon Walker, Georgia

The analysis: Jeremiah views Walker (6-5, 275) as a "physical freak" who could be among those who show out at the upcoming NFL Combine. He sees Walker as the third EDGE player to come off the board after Aidan Hutchinson and Kayvon Thibodeaux, both of whom he projects in the top five.

This guy would be a great compliment to Myles.

I watched some tape today. Powerful dude. Very explosive. Overpowering bull rush. Can move inside. Takes great angles.

I will watch some more of him, but I see why Jeremiah picked him to the Browns.

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bonefish #1922250 01/27/22 06:34 PM
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It would be a good pick. Then we could address WR or LB in FA or in later rounds.

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