DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How close are.the Browns to a SB appearence?5555

5 years ago when Mayfield was drafted, the rose colored glasses
Part of the fanbase proclaimed the Browns were headed
In the right direction. Super Bowl was in the sights
Even alot of the highly visible football mouthpieces
Had the Browns locked for a SB.
Since that time, the Browns have shown glimpses
Of being a top 4 AFC team.
The roster is plenty talented.best oline in the NFL.
Best backfield in the NFL.
potentially the best young secondary in the AFC.

But this team has underachieved.
What is holding this franchise back from a SB appearence?
You cant say injuries. Every team deals with injuries
Is the answer complicated?

How close is this to being a SB contender realistically?
It is the only team in the North not.have won a AFC Championship game.

Baker was drafted in April of 2018. That wasn't five years ago. It will have been four years ago in April.

Do you its a scheme issue thats holding the Browns back

What is holding this franchise back from a Super Bowl.
You could start with my signature, and screen name.

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In 2021... After watching them get dominated by teams with vastly lesser talented players, and the success of teams that fit that mold like the success in 2021-22 of the Cardinals, Chargers, Titans, Patriots, ... bills, ... 49ers and rams, if not the raiders, ...
Then it brings me to ask,
What are the other teams doing?
If the Browns can't get performance out of their parts, then it feels like they are a 1000 miles away.

With solid quarterback play, 1 excellent deep threat at WR, and an upgrade at ILB and DT, I think 2 years.

With subpar QB play (thus looking to start over at that position in 2023), a continued inability to stop opposing TEs and at least one of our own TEs not stepping up consistently (and a tough AFCN for years to come), I'd say we won't be sniffing a SB appearance for the next five years at least.

jmho

A QB away. So not close.

All boils down to injuries. Healthy? Might be next year. Injured? There’s no time limit.

Is a team that adds Dishone Kizer fixing the problem of being a quarterback away? What about a team that adds NY Giants Qb. Daniel Jones? What about Trevor Lawrence, or ... Trey Lance? (what kind of a point am I trying to make?) only that the properties of the Qb might not be the problem, it may be what the Browns do with the Qb once he gets to them that is the problem.

Come on Eo. We have been buds on this board for maybe 20 years now. We had OBJ, Jarvis Landry, and Hooper. Before they came here they were every bit classified as studs at their positions.

I am not going to get in to the debate on where the problem exists, but I seriously doubt all 3 lost their skills for natural reasons once they came to Cleveland. Something other than receivers is the problem.

I like your breakdown. I'll sum mine up a little more. We already have a top 5 defense. If we can come up with a top 10 offense to combine with that top 5 defense we have as good a chance as anyone.

I figure I've got 20 years of living left,so the answer is 21 years away

... or just a year (or even an offseason) away.

Bingo.

I agree. I had no idea our defense graded out at top 5 though.

We were right in the middle of the pack in points allowed. Defense got boat raced in two games to inflate that number though... and played much better down the stretch.

We lost six games by 6 points or fewer. Defense gave up lead in most of those games. Although the offense had it's chances, I'd like this defense to become a little stingier, if not nastier, with those games on the line. Especially if our offense, QB, and play-caller continue to "pucker" when put in the same position.

I think we are in position to contend next year. The Bengals were further away last year than we are this year.

A healthy, 2020 level, Baker Mayfield.
A #1 WR to stretch the D.
Probably a replacement for Landry - because it just doesn't feel like he's going to be here.
Resign Clowney. Probably resign Harrison. Get two starters for the DL interior.
Hope Conklin is back close to 100%.
I'd like an upgrade at MLB.
Upgrade depth wherever you can - especially OL.

I think you can go all the way with that. Luck, injuries, officiating - all need to be evenly split in terms of bouncing for and against us.

My number might be a little less than that, but I sort of go with your theory.

I agree we need some play makers (I’d like to draft Jeremy Ruckert in the 3rd-4th round).

Interesting to see you changed your stance of years saying dime a dozen/solid receivers to now needing studs. I don’t mean that as a negative, just found it interesting.

I defiantly agree on Ruckert he is a star in waiting OSU did not use him enough ... JMO

My said after we were married 45 years ago that the Browns will win the Super Bowl the year I die ...

He has some excellent hands. Very solid receiving TE

Ruckert with Bryant and Njoku would make a fearsome TE Unit ...

Pit ! how do they not have a top 5 offense ? but a top 5 defense. I saw Bitonio, Chubb and Teller in the Pro Bowl game representing the offense. Garret and Ward on the defensive side.

I really thought the Offense was going to rock this season ! Hopefully the Browns can put a top 5 defense and offense if not better on the field this season.. My fear is as one is good the other is not.

The Defense had many injuries also, just never heard why Garrets name wasn't being called more. He was dealing with injuries, but it wasn't spoken of as much as Bakers. Bakers injury over shadowed most of the others.

Ooof! How did I overlook a kicker. A definite need. An upgrade at TE would be nice. Not essential.

Like the question and thread !

looking back to "99" there is only one thing that hasn't changed. Ownership has changed, the front office , the coaches, the players, fans !!

What hasn't changed ? the one thing ? The stadium that was built in a hurry ! yes the dang stadium ! Change the stadium, put a retractable dome over it. Heck tear it down and build a new one !!

Honestly I wish the Browns would get a hurry up on it because I have lost my father relatives and friends who wanted to see a SB in Cleveland and never got the chance and my ass is lucky every new season to be around ! so please someone figure this out because the thought of having to wait much longer is going to be the death of me !! lol

To answer your question.. I just don't know !!

Our number one issue keeping the Browns from making the Superbowl is quality depth.

Depth prevents you from overusing your starters. Depth is needed to pick up the slack when injuries do occur. Depth is the backbone of special teams.

A football season is a war of attrition. Very few teams can finish the season with all their prize starters. Teams combat that by trading for replacements. Teams can get lucky and not lose many.

In theory, having the best 2nd and 3rd options trumps all others' secondary options. Having sufficient options allow you sustainability. You need the right players to execute your designed schemes. Otherwise, you're downsizing your playbook to fit the talent.

I just thought I'd quote this post, because CLE fans need to read it more than once.
We have too much talent drop-off from starters to 2's.
We have too much talent drop-off from 2's to 3's.

Added bonus: when you construct a team in this fashion, you also build in longevity. The team can contend for years because the roster is deep and balanced.

I agree. I am just not sure how long you can keep or afford depth. I think the teams with depth are more or less a bit lucky to have it.

With us, a part of that may be analytics. The flaw with analytics IMO is that later in drafts teams might be looking for that boom or bust player. I am not saying we don't need some of that, but you also need solid special teams players and I think you might be better suited finding those needs with the 3 star guys...guys who started at smaller schools as backers, DB's, etc.

Maybe in a short draft you don't need to draft those guys, but I sometimes wonder how many players are brought on board with the understanding that the only way they make the team is as a special teams guy, and I am not talking about kickers or returners.

I might be thinking out loud here, but something tells me there are a lot of guys who would make pretty damn good special team guys who will never be starters, or even very good position back-ups. I have always heard that the special teams coach gets to pick the last guy on the roster...a special teams player. I wonder if that is still true, and if so, maybe that number needs to be 2 players.

When it comes to special teams around the league, it is usually just 2-3 players on kicks that make a difference on a regular basis. Sometimes just 1 player.

Teams always talk about the importance of special teams, but the special teams coach is usually given the leftovers. Guys with talent no doubt, but little interest in playing the role. Each unit needs a few guys who are viewed as special teams starters. Cribbs was a special teams starter. A guy who in college lacked some of the skill at his position. He was never going to be a NFL QB, but a guy who played his ass off every kick. That 3 star kid I mentioned who had a nice long NFL career as a special teams player.

Teams could go to nearly any small conference team and find that all-conference LB or whatever who isn't going to be a NFL backer, but could be a great special teams starter

In the absence of knowing exactly where to put this - I'll place it here. I think many of us think one of - if not the - single biggest needs on the team is a genuine #1 WR.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pros-and-cons-of-top-5-wide-receivers-2022-nfl-draft-chris-olave

This is PFF's take on the top 5 WR candidates. One of the WR not on this list is who Dane Brugler has us taking in his first mock - Treylon Burks.

13. Cleveland Browns — Treylon Burks, WR, Arkansas
The Browns passing offense desperately needs another playmaker and Burks has the ability to create big plays. He has an outstanding blend of size (6-3, 228) and speed (4.45) with the tracking skills and catch radius to be a quarterback’s best friend. Burks, who led the SEC with 22 plays of 20-plus yards in 2021, reminds me of a linebacker-sized Deebo Samuel.

I'm not sure we know exactly what we have. Baker played with a torn labrum in his shoulder since week 3. I'm sure there will be at least some upgrades at the WR position. So it's possible we will have a top 5 offense next season. But with circumstances being what they were, we didn't have one in the 2021 season.

I agree with you and Clem about depth. But I think it goes deeper than just using the word depth. If you look at the teams who always seem to have depth, they are mostly established teams who have had the same HC and system for many years. They draft players and then develop those players over time in an established system. They bring players up through the pipeline. Their team mates have been in the system for years. Help in learning and fitting into the system not only comes from their coaching staff but from team mates who surround them.

There's a tried and true method for building depth and I don't think we're quite there yet. The salary cap doesn't allow you to just go out and sign quality players in the FA market to fill all of your depth needs. That only comes with a combination of developing players and signing FA's. Quality depth comes from and is developed through the draft among very established teams with stability at the HC level.

I don't know how much I'd complain about our depth when we just had the season we had. Our depth (and sometimes our depth's depth) was spending time starting, and we kept many games close.

but, ultimately, we lost many of them because we were limited by our depth.

Our problem was we had to go so deep into our depth, particularly at the OT spots. Remember, at points, we were starting the 4th and 5th string OT's and we were even playing a backup OG at OT at one point because the OT wasn't ready to see the field.
It's nearly impossible to go that deep at a position and NOT have it affect what you can do, much less when that position has to stop every top tier edge rusher in the league.

Anyone the Browns draft in the 1st has to be a certain age young, so i'll ask if he fits in the under age 22 by opening day category. Guide posts or something they call it. ( I disagree with that fwiw.)