DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Joe Rogan Spotify Cluster*

I'm sure people have heard about the ongoing situation with Spotify and Rogan.

The gist:
Joe Rogan interviewed two guests that were throwing out misinformation. Rogan is getting slammed for "amplifying their message". Spotify didn't say anything, and then musicians started demanding that Spotify remove their music from their platform (musicians taking a stand vs misinformation). Spotify is now sorta standing by Rogan (I believe he's one of (if not the) main content creator for them, but more musicians seem to be getting outraged. Musicians are demanding their music be pulled, and there was a campaign for customers to cancel their subscriptions (which I believe was briefly VERY successful as they got Spotify's customer service channels ground to a halt). TLDR - Rogan had guests on his show that said some whacky stuff and now people are getting all bent outta shape.


I've only seen a handful of clips from his show, but I'm about halfway through the Dr. Epstein episode right now, and if this is any indication then this controversy is totally ridiculous. I'm no Joe Rogan fan, but it's clear to me that his whole shtick is getting interesting people to come on and just letting them talk. Interesting does sometimes slip into ridiculous (he had Alex Jones on one time), and Rogan's shows are more chit chat where Rogan really doesn't say/ask all that much. Because of this, Rogan doesn't push back on what's being said. IMO, I guess that leads some to assuming 'no argument = agreement', but I came away not knowing what Rogan feels about the topics discussed.

I think it's hilarious how people are all bent outta shape about this. My understanding is that these people expect Rogan to steer conversation towards sterile conversations or that he should be squashing misinformation or inappropriate talking points like he's supposed to be some sort of thought police, which I completely disagree with. In the Epstein episode, I saw Rogan have his guest give an unfiltered rant about his beliefs which allowed me to see that this guy is absolutely full of the stinky stuff.

When you choose your guests knowing their beliefs and positions, you are certainly giving them a platform to disseminate misinformation by design. And here are some actual claims Rogan has made....

’Ivermectin can drive this pathogen to extinction’

‘mRNA vaccines are gene therapy’

Lockdowns ‘make things worse’

Not only that, Spotify felt the need to pull 70 episodes of Rogan's podcasts over racial content......

Spotify Removes 70 Episodes of ‘Joe Rogan Experience’; Podcast Host Apologizes for Using N-Word

None of the dozens of segments pulled by the streamer were related to COVID misinformation

https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/spotify-removes-joe-rogan-episodes-n-word-1235172972/

I certainly feel people have the right to disassociate themselves with a place who allows such content to be disseminated without any recourse.

I support people's choice to not pay Spotify if they don't like the decisions leadership of the platform make. I think making your viewpoint known with your wallet is great (even if I don't agree with your point).

I think the outrage because people need to have content sterilized for them because they can't engage their brain to come to their own conclusions is ridiculous.


add: I don't know much about Rogan, so thanks for putting that out there.

Well if disapproval of content is grounds for cancellation I have a whole list...

As a musician I will say musicians should shut the hell up, they expect people to listen to their opinion, but want to fight back against someone else's.

When things have been resoundingly disproven, spreading that misinformation has been proven to only create chaos and continued resistance of doing the very things that can help control a pandemic and help keep American deaths lower. If you actually are expecting people to engage their brains, I strongly suggest you look around you. Jan. 6th is being called "legitimate political discourse". I could go on but we live in a world where people choose to listen to those they support. They refuse to use science or any rational thought process. I normally don't have any angst against differences in opinions and views, but when it comes to the point that it's killing Americans, well I feel the need to draw a line somewhere. So if you actually believe that many Americans are going to "engage their brain" I feel you will be sadly disappointed.

That's why you have a choice. I mean I guess you can choose Rogan. But a lot of the covid misinformation he keep spreading aren't opinions. They're lies. There's a difference.

This whole Rogan thing is an absolute joke, both the Covid stuff, the N-word drama, but ,generally, how it is all being politicized.

I listen this these two a lot. On the left is Glenn Loury, Professor of Social Sciences, Economics @ Brown University and the other is John McWhorter, Professor of Linguistics @ Columbia University. It's only a small snippet of their conversation but I think it is a valid position on both issues re: Rogan.

Rogan is just another iteration of "shock jock" mentality that dates back to Howard, Rush and Alex.

The difference is that Howard accepts that he is putting on entertainment, and the others are driving an agenda.

Listeners know and accept the fact that they are being fed a line of crap that they can use to defend their common agenda.

Rogan really isn't smart enough to understand what he got himself into. Rush and Alex are.

The political commentators never have counter viewpoints or counter discussion. Too intellectual. It is reinforcement of their belief that drives their ratings.

I use the same mantra as others. I don't like them, won't listen to them, and think that if someone wants to pay them a 100 million, well that is America.

If artists do not wish to be associated with Spotify, that is there prerogative as well.

Incorrect.

It's all good to me if you post a laughing emoji. But when you do it less than a minute after the original post based on a position that includes an 8 minute video you clearly didn't watch, you're only making yourself look bad. But that's not very hard for you to do.

And people have a choice to turn it off and ignore it to. It's not like his show is advertised as news.

And I say this as someone who does not listen to him, I only know of his show from 2 or 3 youtube videos I watched of it based on a guest he had.

I guess I agree with this in that he brings people on his show that he knows have alternative (probably an overly generous description) viewpoints.

How come when Pat McAfee had Aaron Rodgers on his show, people were slamming Rodgers and not (for the most part) Pat. How come this time we're only talking about Rogan and not the guests?

Rogan has invited various people, on various topics, with varying viewpoints (incl. politically) come on to his show. To equate Rogan to Howard, Rush, and Jones tells me one has never seriously listened to any of his podcasts. Once people claim a topic discussed shouldn't be talked about, debated, or shared, whether you disagree with it or not (minus extreme examples like calling for certain things), we are heading in a very dangerous direction. We literally had our government stop short of telling Spotify to cancel Rogan....yes, our government. For all the correct hate, IMO, of those who called out Trump for these equal threats when in office, this should be taken just as serious, in my view.

He had Bernie Sanders on his show. There are countless things I don't agree with...that doesn't mean Rogan should be censored as a result, or Bernie's opinion's for that matter. Re: Covid as a recent topic, there have been many things early on claimed misinformation that ended up being incorrect, or at a minimum, still being debated or unsure. There is NOTHING wrong with having these conversations.

Again, this whole things is a joke.

This is the crux of what I was trying to explain in my original post. It's ironic, too... the Epstein conversation was mostly about a few orgs' outsized control about the information we receive on the internet.

j/c:

This only hurts the intent.



#CeeUNextTuesday

I think people give Twitter too much credit. The vast majority of the US pays no attention to twitter, I just looked it up and Jr has like 7 or 8 million followers, so that means 380+ million other Americans would never know or care what he has to say on Twitter unless someone shows them.

Unless media picks up his Twats, then the world goes on as if he doesn't exists.

jc

didnt read the comments. i can't ignore how rogan has advocated for black americans and POCs every chance he gets, destroying the right wingers on his show explaining systemic racism and why its important to invest in struggling communities.

i can't ignore all that just cause he dropped the n-bomb a few years ago, especially if it wasn't from a supremacist perspective.

dude just needs to apologize, and move on. i need more "aliens did it" content, though.

I don't have a problem with a guy having a conversation on his show with differing views. I think it's ok to question things that we are supposed to just accept, because of what the government tells us. If you chose not to get a vaccine because of rogan's show, you were probably not going to take it anyway, and were just waiting for a viewpoint from someone.

I have not really listened to his shows, it's funny that you mentioned aliens though, as I think the one ep I did listen to was the Bob Lazar interview (pretty intresesting ep)

Part of the problem is that the media does pick up Twats... and serve up sloppy-seconds.

Refs: This thread clearly belongs in PP.

I'll reserve my comments until it's moved to the forum that is already full of this kind of crap.

Oh, you mean like you did in the PP forum just minutes before this? Mmmmm hmmmm....

Yeah, I thought about where I would put this for a while. It looks like it's going in that direction. Oh well.

You mention this, but I think it's actually evidence for my argument. I WANT to know the people that would call Jan6 that. I think it's important that kind of talk is out in the open vs behind closed doors and never talked about.

I don't disagree with you. The only thing we really seem to disagree with is that you, at least in this post, have limited choices with the people who are listeners. This thread originated and has evolved into seemingly saying others do not have a choice. Spotify has a choice on which people they choose to do business with. The artists who do not wish to be associated with a company who decides to disseminate Rogan's misinformation have a choice.

Boycotts and people choosing not to do business with certain people have always existed. Everything from political motivation to religious motivation. In this case it's medical disinformation. This is nothing new and I don't see why it should be pointed out as anything special or different.

But I mean there are people trying to insinuate that misinformation about a pandemic that has killed over 900k Americans is political.

One is something that has happened and we are seeing people try to whitewash it. The other is a pandemic that has killed over 900k Americans. I don't see much of an actual comparison there.

There might be more complexity to one vs. the other, but both are in the bucket of misinformation.

I wasn't making a comparison. You mentioned Jan6 and what the RNC is saying about it. I'm saying we absolutely SHOULD be hearing the spin-job they're trying to pull right now.

I don't disagree with you about Jan. 6th. And I would probably agree with you about Rogan if the type of misinformation he and those like him have spread hadn't led to so many Americans dying and continuing to die because of it.

I agree the artists have the choice to, and my comment about "they should just shut up", is based on the idea that music is essentially expression of their thoughts, opinions and emotions. And the whole idea behind music is that freedom to express yourself even when others don't agree with it. They have fought the government over the right to express their opinions in their format.

Did you post an 8 min video re: your position or just a sentence that took less than one minute to read?

Ah, trying to excuse that you used the same tactics elsewhere. That's become a very common thing to do these days.

Yes, artists have fought the government. Spotify and media outlets are not the government. I also don't consider "expression of their thoughts, opinions and emotions" the same as spreading that proven scientific facts are false information that leads to American deaths.

Not as common as goal post moving.

I'm sure you have your goal post moving equipment handy and close by. I mean you just used it.

I guess where we differ (and to be clear I have not heard the episode in question, only guying by what is reported here), is from what I can tell Spotify and Rogan didn't do anything wrong. His guests used the platform to say what they wanted to say, Rogan is no more an official on the subject matter than you or I. At worst he's guilty of not challenging what they said, but without having heard the show myself, I can't say that he did or didn't.

If he had challenged them we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't follow Rogan, so this one with Epstein is the only show I've seen. Honestly, I like the format (as I've explained above). He lets his guests talk/gets them talking and largely steps back. The Epstein one was interesting because I thought I could tell that Rogan wasn't buying many of the things Epstein was saying (asking the same questions over and over throughout, asking for clarification), but he's not going to go full-stop on an interview. Again, I like that... I like seeing someone constructing wrong or misleading arguments. Having Spotify open in a desktop browser window, I was looking up a handful of the things he was saying and getting a lot of "technically yes, but..." type of information about his assertions. He also had a couple times where he completely fabricated explanations for certain study results ("well, Google obviously knew what we were up to and took steps to cover their tracks"). Rogan never challenged the most absurd claims he had.

What this boils down to, is the right and freedom to spread false or misinformation and lies. The first amendment ensures free speech, but are proven/known lies and misinformation really free speech OR something we can legislate against?

I don't care for Rogan, but he has a right to have who he wants on his show and to talk about whatever he wants to talk about. Others have a right to tune in or not. Spotify is feeling pressure for their choice, which is also a right for both company (free speech) and public (boycott/protest). The musicians and advertisers are all within their rights as well. So I guess we'll have to see how the free market resolves this. But if I were a betting man, I'd say before it's over, Rogan will have a platform issue similar to Trumps, where the complaints and lost business eventually cause Spotify to move on from him. Since he's there most listened to creator, that might take a while. So, just watch and see what happens, is how I feel.

After the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Tucker, Hannity, and Ingraham; Rogan is more acceptable IMHO. But some of his guest, the topics discussed, and his world views in general are definitely registering on the wackadoodle scale of idiocy. Yet there has been some decent stuff come out of his shows too. But he's not far removed from that alt-right talking head ilk, I can say that much about him. And all of this is not new. The left has been trying to demonetize Fox for twenty years. The left took down a few higher ups there with this method of protest, going after the advertisers, well before Rogan's Show was even a thing. Now that ire is turned toward him.

Totally agree.
People aren't interested in watching interviews of people that have nothing interesting to say. That's just the way it is. Joe Rogan's interviews are 3 hours long and he has done hundreds of interviews of all sorts of people. People are going to say things that are not true or contentious. Nobody would listen to a show like this expecting to agree 100% with everything the guest says or everything the host says.

Mainstream media is pushing this argument because their business is threatened by podcasters and more importantly, their oligopoly on the narrative is being threatened. It won't be as easy to lie us into wars if people get news from independent creators.
They also don't hold themselves to the same standard. When George Stephanopolous interviewed Trump, and Trump lied, was there any discussions about ABC cancelling their show? Were they pressured into running disclaimers before their broadcasts?

If we held this message board to the same standard, then it should be shutdown, because people, including myself, have posted opinions or information here that has proven to be wrong.

I even listened to a little bit of the Malone interview (I didn't have the attention span for 3 hours), and everything that I heard him say was true. If you put the entire 3 hour interview under the microscope, would something be untrue or contentious? probably, but that seems extreme.

When it comes to providing true information, I would put Rogan's batting average up against any of the mainstream guys on either side, any day of the week.

I doubt much happens at all, in the end, most Spotify users won't want to change services over an issue that doesn't affect them at all in their daily lives. A few may, but the vast majority probably don't even know about any of this.