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#1924491 02/10/22 01:42 PM
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Everyone knows the story. He is due $14.3 with a cap hit of $16.4.

Does Jarvis want to remain in Cleveland? I don't know. The Odell mess may still linger.

Sides were taken. Would Jarvis take half? Hard to say.

I love what Jarvis brings to the table. He plays hard. He prepares hard. He is tough. He is a leader.

My guess is: All good things will pass. His time with the Browns is over.

The money could bring more production. He will be UFA in 2023.

If he would take less money. Maybe he would stay. But, I doubt he will. He is better off trying to strike a two year deal elsewhere.

What will he get in 2023? Maybe a string of one year deals at $8.

If Berry lets him go. It will happen before free agency. That will give Jarvis a good start with another team.


bonefish #1924493 02/10/22 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish


My guess is: All good things will pass. His time with the Browns is over.




Agreed.

bonefish #1924494 02/10/22 02:03 PM
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My guess is Landry would react to any overtures about restructuring about the same as Sheldon Richardson did last off-season.

bonefish #1924498 02/10/22 02:22 PM
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He's gone. He's a professional, but checked out after the OBJ trade.

For a guy who was always out front and speaking to the media during the week and postgame, Jarvis never spoke to the media after the OBJ trade aside from his Thanksgiving charity event.

Regardless of contract dollar amount, Jarvis brought a lot to the team in not only ability, but leadership in the WR room.

bonefish #1924499 02/10/22 02:29 PM
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Our WR room is going to go from strong (when it was assumed that OBJ was going to start living up to the hype here), to weak when he didn't and then left. Jarvis was banged up most of last year so he was largely a non-factor. But if he does come back to full strength by TC, then he'd the the only vet contributor on the team. He saw the lion's share of pass targets before and was a reliable catcher. If we let him go, then that makes re-making the WR room that much harder, because we'd go from 'weak' to 'needing warm bodies'.


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Milk Man #1924501 02/10/22 02:32 PM
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On The NFL Show the host, Kevin Clark, was interviewing Charles Robinson. They were talking about the Browns and what happened to them this season. Robinson said that he talked to Kevin Stefanski at training camp and one of the first things Stefanski told him was the Landry can’t run anymore. Not great.

Landry’s on field productivity never matched his salary. I think he did bring some level of professionalism and legitimacy to the team because he is/was respected around the league.

I think the team will ask him to take a pay cut, he’ll turn it down and we’ll cut him. I think he’ll end up getting about $6 million in free agency.

Milk Man #1924502 02/10/22 02:32 PM
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Cryptic tweet!


bonefish #1924504 02/10/22 02:35 PM
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If he is a good player why wouldn't you keep him on your team?
Because you don't want to pay money?
How much does a team pay their Wide receivers?
Does Cleveland have to be a team where nobody can play unless they are getting paid a lot less than what players in the NFL get paid?
... If Cleveland doesn't want to have a football team that pays it's players what players make,
then that would be a pretty crappy statement on the city of Cleveland.

What kind of an NFL team would it be if it tried to advertise that they could never have more than triple A prospects and has beens, or nobody who knows how to play the game yet because they don't want to pay market value to field a team when NFL teams are pulling in the kind of money they are, from television contracts and ticket sales?

There are smarter people than me who think about these things.
I just never like reading the justification that because someones contract is going to go up that they have to be replaced by a cheaper option.
If they win, and it's about winning then play the winner. If they don't play as good as the young cheap guy, then it's different


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
bonefish #1924508 02/10/22 02:43 PM
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I think their is a risk at times when you sign a FA WR
And you expect them redefine the WR room.

Jarvis I think wanted to really help turn the Browns culture
Around. And on paper it looked liked a good pairing
Bringing in OBJ.

But then ask yourself, why did their original teams
Want to part with them in the firstplace?
Friendship runs deeper than a front office trying
To construct a playoff team.
Who's side do you think Jarvis took regarding OBJ-Mayfield
Drama?
His silence said it all.
Jarvis was happy as long as OBJ was happy.

This should be a lesson for the Browns
It's better to build your WR room of draft picks rather
Then bringing in other WRs that their teams cant wait
To move.
Cultivate the WRs the way you.want.

Look.at the playoff teams. Most of the WR rooms are made up of drafted
Guys and the number #1-WR on that team is drafted, not a FA.

The Browns history of signing FA WRs or trading for one
Since 1999 has been a complete diaster.

Iluvmyxstripper #1924513 02/10/22 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I think their is a risk at times when you sign a FA WR
And you expect them redefine the WR room.

Jarvis I think wanted to really help turn the Browns culture
Around. And on paper it looked liked a good pairing
Bringing in OBJ.

But then ask yourself, why did their original teams
Want to part with them in the firstplace?
Friendship runs deeper than a front office trying
To construct a playoff team.
Who's side do you think Jarvis took regarding OBJ-Mayfield
Drama?
His silence said it all.
Jarvis was happy as long as OBJ was happy.

This should be a lesson for the Browns
It's better to build your WR room of draft picks rather
Then bringing in other WRs that their teams cant wait
To move.
Cultivate the WRs the way you.want.

Look.at the playoff teams. Most of the WR rooms are made up of drafted
Guys and the number #1-WR on that team is drafted, not a FA.

The Browns history of signing FA WRs or trading for one
Since 1999 has been a complete diaster.

Are you posting with some kind of voice-to-text software? I don't understand the capitalization of the first word of every new line, so I'm guessing its a software glitch. Its very distracting.

Dave #1924514 02/10/22 03:04 PM
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I think it’s a poem

cfrs15 #1924517 02/10/22 03:15 PM
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Or software with a fubar word-wrap.

bonefish #1924518 02/10/22 03:16 PM
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bonefish #1924521 02/10/22 03:19 PM
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At some point money spent has to equal production.

Jarvis is a leader. But his days as a top line receiver are over.

There was a game not sure but I think the last Steeler's game. Where it was a broken play. Jarvis had broken off a short dig route.
He turned went deep and threw up his hand. The corner closed on him and he was covered. I was watching the play and Baker threw to the other side of the field. I thought wow Jarvis can't run. He is slow. His route tree is limited. His role has been reduced.

I think he knows it. He will choose to leave because he will have a better shot at bigger money. And, he may think with another team he may get more targets.

It happens. That is life in the NFL. You age fast. Injuries take their toll. After 30 you try to hang on. You don't get long term deals.

The Browns are forced to rebuild the receiver room. And Berry will do that. The money gained will give more options.

JC Tretter is due $7.9. Cap hit $9.8. UFA in 2023. Not much different. He never practices. His knees are shot. But come game day. He plays and plays well. They might cut him. They might try and get that last year from him also. Nick Harris is not bad at center. He will be starting his third year. He maybe ready to start.


bonefish #1924526 02/10/22 03:35 PM
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It would be foolish to cut J.C. Tretter for cap savings. Tretter was the 6th highest rated center per PFF.

This team is in win now mode, not cut costs mode by releasing a very productive player.

If you want to save money on someone that gives little return, send Keenum packing.

Milk Man #1924527 02/10/22 03:47 PM
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All of that will be considered.

Tretter is a good player. But time marches on and he may not play as well. Or, maybe the difference between him and Harris is not much different.

We will see. Berry has lots to think about.

bonefish #1924528 02/10/22 03:50 PM
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As it stands we need at least two upgrades at the WR position. Letting Landry go would make it far more difficult to have a strong WR room. Despite the general consensus I think a further weakening of the WR room would only complicate the issue. And I highly doubt anyone would argue that currently Landry is the best WR on our roster. Cutting your best WR in an already weak position group on your team doesn't sound like a smart move to me. But stranger things have happened.

I think at least some of the comments are based more about he and OBJ being friends than the actual evaluation of where we are in regards to the WR situation on the team.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Iluvmyxstripper #1924529 02/10/22 03:53 PM
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The silence from Jarvis said it all? How many other players spoke out about the departure of OBJ?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1924537 02/10/22 04:26 PM
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Jarvis maybe the best currently. Honestly that is a low bar.

His production dropped a lot from 840 yds in 2020 to 570 yds last year. He was hurt and so was Baker so there maybe justification.

But my eyes see a slower guy. He can still find holes in zone. But he is not getting separation in man.

Jarvis is a tough guy. He was never a speedster. But he has played hurt often and time slows you down.

I don't see him making $15m. So he may ask for a release.

There are some veteran free agents. The draft should land a starter. DPJ should be better. Schwartz has much to prove.

Maybe Jarvis will take less? Who knows.

If the Browns could get a decent year from him at less money. He maybe worth it. The good thing about Jarvis is you know he will play hard. He will prepare. I have always loved his attitude.

cfrs15 #1924540 02/10/22 04:34 PM
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Landry’s on field productivity never matched his salary.
Agreed. Landry is a good WR and we got a good deal to acquire him, but he never met the price tag value in any year after he signed that contract.


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
bonefish #1924543 02/10/22 04:44 PM
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I think your circumstances is a huge factor in what you consider the value to be. If Jarvis was our second or 3rd WR and we had other very talented WR's on the roster, I would certainly agree with you. Under those circumstances paying him 15 mil. would certainly not be justified. If we were in salary cap hell when paying him that much would put strains on the ability to fill other holes I would agree with you.

But none of that is the case. What I think you are doing is making a blanket opinion without taking all of the circumstances surrounding the situation into consideration. I'm very careful about claiming younger players "should be better". We really have no idea if they will progress or regress. No WR on our roster had 600 receiving yards and the most TD receptions from any WR was three. Even Higgins looked like hot garbage when given opportunities. In 2020 Higgins had a catch rate of 71.2%. In 2021 his catch rate was 51.1%. If what you are describing was isolated to Landry, once again I would agree. But the things you describe ran through the entire WR position.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #1924544 02/10/22 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
As it stands we need at least two upgrades at the WR position. Letting Landry go would make it far more difficult to have a strong WR room. Despite the general consensus I think a further weakening of the WR room would only complicate the issue. And I highly doubt anyone would argue that currently Landry is the best WR on our roster. Cutting your best WR in an already weak position group on your team doesn't sound like a smart move to me. But stranger things have happened.

I think at least some of the comments are based more about he and OBJ being friends than the actual evaluation of where we are in regards to the WR situation on the team.
This 100.

For all talk of "overpaid", we likely need to overpay again, just not to that level... and I'm cool with that.

His "lack of speed" is a misnomer as far as his value in a more succinct role. And for someone who is tagged as "slow", his YAC is uncanny in relation.

Great personality, great teammate, hard-hat "do the work" player, with great hands and running proper patterns, finding weak spots in the defense... that's who I want mentoring the young pups.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
FATE #1924546 02/10/22 05:07 PM
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His "lack of speed" is a misnomer as far as his value in a more succinct role. And for someone who is tagged as "slow", his YAC is uncanny in relation.

YAC/Reception:

2021- Landry was 5.3 (63rd in the NFL)- David Njoku was higher
2020- Landry was 4.7 (75th in the NFL)- Kareem Hunt was higher
2019- Landry was 5.3 (64th in the NFL)- Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt were higher.
2018- Landry was 3.4 (119th in the NFL)- Duke Johnson, David Njoku, Antonio Callaway, and Rashad Higgins were higher.

Just saying. It's not the end all stat or anything but I don't think he was this YAC monster everyone thought he was.


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
PitDAWG #1924548 02/10/22 05:15 PM
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I mentioned the injury to Baker as a factor.

Jarvis is a complimentary receiver. He is not a X number one guy. DPJ is not that guy either. He was a sixth round developmental player.

Higgins was a fifth rounder and a borderline backup player. Odell was the guy. Now Odell looks good because he is not the guy. He is not drawing double teams. Cooper Kupp is the guy.

Look at the Bengals. Their third receiver is better than anyone we have. Chase 1455, Tee Higgins 1091, Boyd 828 yds.

If the Browns passing game is going to improve. Baker will be counted on to return to the form of his 2020 year.

However, he will need much more than what is on the roster. Higgins will be gone. Schwartz will be expected to be better but will not be counted on.

Berry will invest in free agency. He may bring two and draft a guy in the first. There will be an upgrade and competition.

Jarvis may have a role. But some of that may depend upon him.

IMO he will leave.

MemphisBrownie #1924549 02/10/22 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
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His "lack of speed" is a misnomer as far as his value in a more succinct role. And for someone who is tagged as "slow", his YAC is uncanny in relation.

YAC/Reception:

2021- Landry was 5.3 (63rd in the NFL)- David Njoku was higher
2020- Landry was 4.7 (75th in the NFL)- Kareem Hunt was higher
2019- Landry was 5.3 (64th in the NFL)- Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt were higher.
2018- Landry was 3.4 (119th in the NFL)- Duke Johnson, David Njoku, Antonio Callaway, and Rashad Higgins were higher.

Just saying. It's not the end all stat or anything but I don't think he was this YAC monster everyone thought he was.
I should have been more specific, his YAC when running in traffic or catching the ball in traffic was uncanny. I don't have "stats" to back that up... but I watched it for the last four years. Obviously, one of the most important factors in determining overall YAC is the receiver's separation at the catch point. He seemed to "make something out of nothing" at a pretty high rate, again, when considering his overall speed.


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FATE #1924551 02/10/22 05:28 PM
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Obviously, one of the most important factors in determining overall YAC is the receiver's separation at the catch point. He seemed to "make something out of nothing" at a pretty high rate, again, when considering his overall speed.

I don't disagree that there were several times, each year, that he made something out of nothing...no question there. But I'm not sure with the "at a pretty high rate" part. It think people recall the few times where he made a huge play because of his yards after contact and that gets exacerbated to a degree. But many WRs do that. It's the ones that do it more often than not is where their average spikes, obviously.

A possible argument in favor of Landry and against that stat is the amount of receptions he has received in those years, the type of throws those were intended to be, and that might be a reason to suppress the average to a degree. Then again, four years is a decent sample size.


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
bonefish #1924552 02/10/22 05:36 PM
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I like Landry as a slot receiver who gets you 1st downs, but I think a WR making what he's scheduled to make needs to be a game-changer. Its not his fault the Browns overpaid, but I don't think he'll get much more on the market than the Browns would be willing to pay him on a re-structured deal. The only question is whether he wants to return.

MemphisBrownie #1924553 02/10/22 05:37 PM
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running in traffic or catching the ball in traffic

Yeah, that would be hard to quantify and perhaps very subjective based on who decides what is "in traffic".


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Dave #1924554 02/10/22 05:40 PM
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And for the record.... I'm all for keeping Landry if the price is right. He definitely has value and his a good teammate. I don't know what price tag is according to he FO but I think it is roughly half of that, at best.


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
MemphisBrownie #1924557 02/10/22 06:11 PM
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That is why IMO he will leave.

Jarvis will meet and discuss with Berry. He earned that and Berry will want to do right by him. His agent will be consulted. They will look around and determine his market.

He may find a two year deal? He has a year left here. No way they will resign him after next year.

So, he maybe able to find a better deal.

This is between Berry and Jarvis. I am just guessing. Whatever, is decided I am good with.

But somehow someway it all comes back to money.

MemphisBrownie #1924558 02/10/22 06:15 PM
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I’m all for keeping Landry even if the price is wrong. Our WR room is weak. Why make it worse?


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lampdogg #1924560 02/10/22 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lampdogg
I’m all for keeping Landry even if the price is wrong. Our WR room is weak. Why make it worse?
Maybe its weak because JARVIS is your best WR.
Jarvis has reliable hands.thats about it.
He cant blow the top off the defense.
He isnt dangerous after the catch.

bonefish #1924562 02/10/22 06:42 PM
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Market value for Chris Godwin who is 25 years old is: $18m on on four year deal. He had 98 rec. for 1103 yds. UFA

Christian Kirk is 25. His market value would average around $11m. He had 77 rec. for 982 yds. UFA


Kirk is very good in the slot.

Godwin is a productive player and still young.

We could still draft a receiver at 13.

No way Andrew Berry is not going to address the receiver room aggressively.

lampdogg #1924568 02/10/22 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lampdogg
I’m all for keeping Landry even if the price is wrong. Our WR room is weak. Why make it worse?

We get to acquire other playrs.

cfrs15 #1924569 02/10/22 07:01 PM
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Say whaaaat!?


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
bonefish #1924575 02/10/22 07:33 PM
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Godwin will be coming off a torn ACL, so he & his agent will likely be wanting a 1-year deal so they can try to cash in bigger next year. That said, if we WOW'd them, we could get him.
Prior to Brady retiring, I'd have firmly said there was zero chance of him going elsewhere, but without Brady, it's a cinch that he leave the Bucs.

If by some strange magic we could land Godwin AND Kirk (no chance at all of this happening, and probably less than a 30% chance that we get even one of the two), we would be VERY well off.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

PrplPplEater #1924576 02/10/22 07:35 PM
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I disagree. Godwin has enough production where he doesn't need a rebound year contract. He'll get a multi-year deal and teams will offer him it. There may be some injury/games played clause in it, but he'll get offers, IMO.

The dude is 25.


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
MemphisBrownie #1924577 02/10/22 07:38 PM
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You could be right, but my reasoning is not because of the production, but because of the injury. A WR coming back from ACL isn't a guarantee. Although, now that I think about it, it could be an incentive-laden deal, but that wouldn't work here in this offense unless it has REALLY modest targets for the incentives.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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If there is never a player that the fans don't demand restructure for less money. (Or Hit the road)
Then what are they fans of.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
PrplPplEater #1924582 02/10/22 08:36 PM
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I don't know who we will get.

I mentioned Godwin and Kirk because of their ages and production.

I am certain that Berry will get somebody someway somehow.

I expect the Browns to go to camp with DPJ, Schwartz, maybe two FA and high draft pick and maybe another pick later.

Jarvis may or may not be with the team.

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