DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jarvis

I want Jarvis to be here.
I doubt that Jarvis will be here.

We need at LEAST two high quality WR's to be brought in. Our WR Room, currently, is best described as "Wish in one hand, poop in the other... see which fills up first."

Very funny!

I hope Jarvis stays on a reduced contract, then go get a top WR in FA and draft the best WR at #13 (Wilson) ...

I agree with your thought he is our best receiver....or at least was. Even saying he is, we still need to consider "is he worth it"?

I am not going to get in to if he is or isn't, mainly because my opinion doesn't count and don't know what the team might be planning for the position. If I had to guess it would be that we will move on. Just purely looking at salary v production, he isn't, but more goes in to that decision.

The thing is, we have a guy that's (I'm assuming) ready to take over his spot. Who's going to make cutting Jarvis an easy decision? Higgins? He's probably gone too.

I guess the way I would look at this - business perspective only - is it better to pay Jarvis $15M which seems about $5-7M more than his current ability warrants. Or better to pay a guy like Godwin $20M ? Or Mike Williams $18M ? ... those numbers come from The Athletic as guides to how much they could earn.

To me that is an easy decision. You sign the better, younger talent for more money. Then you have to figure out the truth behind the story that KS told someone 'his legs are gone' ... making a restructure but a multi-year deal also a question mark.

My argument is "why not both?"... but I acknowledge that you have to kinda ignore reality to go that route.

i guess im trying to figure out why we would trade landry?

more and more posters keep saying our receivers suck, so the answer is the make it worse? Landry has absolutely produced as advertised. if Baker needs more talent, what sense does it make getting rid of the ONE dude he can rely on?

the FO better keep landry if they can make it work. we need to replace the talent we lossed when OBJ left. thats gonna be the big offseason hit or miss for this FO, and that's IF we're supposed to believe our receivers are that mediocre.

and i then i have to ask because the posters seem to really dodge this perspective: if landry and the locker room was THAT affected by OBJ being released.....how would swapping them out with other players solve the problem? the common denominator is still on the team, correct?

lets just say for the sake of argument we trade juice away and we got Devante Adams. Adams production level drops, becomes unhappy, and tries to get out cleveland.

how many posters on this board will start claiming that Adams is an overhyped WR?

That's fair. I've always liked Jarvis. I think since he as been a Brown he has impacted the team positively way more than his stats show. I think this season he was hurt and tried to come back too soon and that impacted his play dramatically after whatever week it was he got dinged. Keeping him and adding veteran FA is definitely an option. I guess without voicing the the concerns - two things are niggling at the back of my mind: [1] Did KS really say before the season that Jarvis's legs' have gone? I guess only they know. [2] Does he want to be here ? I never questioned it before because he was such a team leader, but after the OBJ mess, I don't know one way or another.

I don't care if OBJ did not want to be here. Players want things all the time.
The bottom line, imo. is if the Browns, Org. had more integrity, then OBJ would have been here until seasons end no matter what. Even if he spent 10 weeks on the freaking bench!
And if he signed somewhere else for over 14 million after the season, the Browns would have gotten a decent supplemental draft pick. Instead the Browns didn't even get the proverbial Ham sandwich and roll of medical tape, they got squat because they caved!

High quality WR's don't grow on trees. If they did then Greg Little's and Julio Jones' careers would have been interchangeable.

Well to me there is an easily observable and repeatable thing.
If nobody ever has to earn their playing time on your team the level of winning doesn't improve.
meaning
If you bring in younger guys just because they are younger, and 'everytime', instead of making sure they are better than the player you already had.

That's kind of my feelings as well. Is Landry worth 15 mil.? The answer to that depends on your situation. From a purely production standpoint, no. His numbers alone do not match up with that salary. But let's look at where we're at. We know for a fact we need at the very least two upgrades at the WR position. One at least in FA and at least one high draft pick at the position.

But if Landry is gone, who will these new WR's look to for veteran leadership in the locker room? What other WR on the roster commands the respect that these new players will listen to and can learn the system from? There is value in the huge investment we will be making at the WR position as it pertains to a smooth transition when they arrive. Landry can be pivotal in that transition. Your situation and circumstances are a part of what value a player holds to your team. If we were the Rams, Landry wouldn't be worth the price tag. If we were the Cowboys or the Bills Landry wouldn't be worth his price tag. But we're not any of those teams. I think trying to simply look at his stat sheet is very short sighted in the big picture of things.

Landry is not getting traded. He's not tradeable with his contract being what it is.
He is either playing this last year at the current value, renegotiating/restructuring/taking a pay cut, or getting cut.... and the first option listed is unlikely.

I wish it weren't so. He brings a LOT to this locker room that other than what he does on the field, but what he does doesn't warrant $15-16 million, even for just the one year; not when we only have like $29 million in cap space to play with and half a defense to re-sign.

and, yet, that doesn't change the fact that we need at LEAST two of them.

Not sure if that's what you meant, but I don't think any trades are on the table. I think it's whether we cut him or not.

Besides that, I'm totally with you. The only thing worse than creating holes in the roster that aren't there is making current holes that much worse.

Paying a player significantly more than they are worth instead of allocating that money to help the roster in other ways is poor planning. The money that is saved if Landry is cut will be used to improve the roster in other ways (including signing wide receivers).

Or used towards a pricier QB.

Has Landry said or gave any indication that he really wants to stay in Cleveland?

As far as I know Landry has not spoken to Cleveland media since Beckham's release.

OK...so you know it really isn't possible unless we cut some other players at other position.

By the time camp rolls around I would bet we have a new FA receiver on board, maybe 2, and at least 1 drafted receiver who was drafted before round 3. My bet is round 2, but it could be round 1. My hope is round 2. There will be a lot of good receivers on the board in round 2.

Getting back to your bending reality comment, I think there is a chance we opt to keep Landry one last season, Keep him as the high priced receiver on a 1 year deal rather than a high priced FA on a multiple year deal and draft a player or two on rookie deals to learn from Landry for a year. Heck, is extending Landry for 1 year possible? If we are talking about signing someone for 18 mil over 2-3 years, why not just extend Landry?

If I didnt know any better by going off some of these comments
I could swear Landry was putting up Kupp, Chase and Jefferson type
Numbers.
Some have said he provides leadership. Shouldnt that come from the
QB position? Yeah it was great Landry stood on a lunch table years ago
And gave a great speech.
But this WR room needs a severe infusion of playmakers
Landry is not a playmaker. Yeah once in awhile will be part of a gadget play
And it works.
But the Browns have zero end zone threats from the WR room.
Draft some WRs that have produced TDs in college as in double digits
Look at some FAs WRs.that have a good TD to catch ratio

Landry doesnt want to be a Brown anymore. He doesnt believe that Baker
Can this team to the SB.

j/c...sort of. I tripped across this tidbit this morning:

DPJ "led" Browns WRs with 597 total receiving yards...TOTAL yards...Chase had 651 yards for the Bengals...of YAC.

The Bengals #2 & #3 WRs combined had 679 yards of YAC...the combined YAC of EVERY Browns WR - including DPJ - was...492.

Remarkable

how many targets compared to chase?

Chase - 128 targets (81 catches)

DPJ - 58 targets (34 catches)

"Landry doesnt want to be a Brown anymore. He doesnt believe that Baker
Can this team to the SB."

I wonder if that is true?

I don't know. You could be right.

If that is the case. When he meets with Berry that will come out. Berry will ask if he would like to stay and get paid about half?

If he does believe that. He will refuse a pay cut and ask to be released.

It's just something he made up.

I have yet to.hear Landry come out and say "I fully support Baker
Mayfield in his abilities to lead this team to a SB" "I believe in him"
Landry has been quiet ever since OBJ left town.
Kinda funny for a guy that was never at a loss for words
When he was signed by the Browns.

And you haven't heard him say he doesn't. Like I said, it's just something you made up in your own mind.


I'm sorry you think someone has to stand in front of a microphone in order to be supportive. He made it obvious to Baker which is all that really counts.

Jarvis and OBJ are friends, but they are two different kinds of people. IMO, Jarvis was not effected by OBJ leaving. I think the lack of talk from Jarvis was due more to the fact that he was hurt most the season, after a career where he never missed games. His self-pride probably hurt him more than OBJ leaving. Jarvis and Baker have a close relationship, that started before OBJ came here. I don't see Jarvis as a guy who would hold a grudge against Baker, because it didn't work out with his friend. I would venture to say, that Jarvis probably doesn't like the way things panned out for either guy. Jarvis is not a self-centered person like OBJ. Odell has a completely different personality than Jarvis. Just because they are good friends, doesn't necessarily mean Jarvis agrees with everything Odell does.

Odell wanted out from the start, I'm sure Jarvis knew this. People pick sides with Baker and OBJ, and I don't want to. I saw games where Odell was open and Baker did not get him the ball, or threw a bad pass to him. But I also saw Odell, who many claim has some the best hands in football, drop easy passes that hit him in the hands. Passes that would have kept drives alive, and are easy routine catches. So while Odell is pointing the finger at Baker, it could easily be Baker pointing the finger at OBJ. It is funny though, how when, after being here a year working with the offense, he still lined up wrong, now he goes to LA and is praised for learning the offense so quickly. IMO, his heart wasn't into it here and it showed. As for Baker, he needs to get healthy and prove he can play at a high level, or it will be time to move on from him also.

As for Jarvis, I'm sure he will do what is best for him career wise. But I can guarantee this, if it is here or elsewhere, I'm sure he will give his all. It is just the way he is wired.

We don't really know any of these people.

My reality comment was merely about tying up so much money in the WR position when this teams is as focused on the run as it is. I think the FO will be committed to finding a WR in FA that can take that #1 WR spot. As much as I hate on OBJ, the reality is that there was a hole in the offense when he left (he took coverage away from others). Seeing DPJ pre and post OBJ, I think he's going to be one of those guys that's better than many/most #2s, but not quite a #1 (sorta like a Juju situation in Pitt).

So if the FO has to go and get a guy that's going to cost a bunch, plus with an eye to the future knowing (one way or another) we're probably going to have to pay a QB soon, I don't see them paying Jarvis on top of the expenses they're going to incur in the WR room.

Speaking of Ju-Ju.... I could see us parting ways with Jarvis and signing Ju-Ju, and possibly even a Godwin, then drafting a big time target.

It's not that we're super focused on the run, but more that we're just really, really, really balanced. Probably to a fault, but that also may change with a healthy QB and a healthy pair of OTs.

Berry mentioned on his post-season presser that we're a run-focused or run-first team. I don't remember his exact wording, but that's what the guy making the FA decisions said. I agree on the argument over the definition, but when Berry said that that whole conversation became moot, IMO.

I do not recall Berry saying that in his post-season press conference. Here were his comments regarding the scheme in that press conference.


On if the Browns need to see more production from the WRs and if it is a priority to upgrade that position in the offseason:

“It is a good question. Again, I think that is really across the roster. That is what the next couple of weeks are going to be for. I told you guys at the bye week that I thought our passing offense was too inconsistent at that point, and I think that remains to be the case as we exit the year. We will pull it apart, look at it and obviously make the necessary changes and improvements that are needed, whether that is externally, internally or schematically.”

On if the Browns will discuss during the offseason whether it is best for Stefanski to remain the offensive play caller:

“Mentioned it a little bit earlier in terms of looking at everything because we really do have to go through everything because we did not meet our level of expectations this year. That all being said, feel good about Kevin as a play caller. I think that is something that is one of his strengths. There are a lot of things that we will need to improve over the next several months, and it really all has to work together. I do not think it is any one thing or any silver bullet. That is why we are going to tear it apart and plot the best path to go, whether it is personnel wise, schematically wise or operationally, with an eye towards improvement in 2022.”

https://browns.1rmg.com/transcripts...ns-general-manager-andrew-berry-1-11-22/