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Id like to see the Browns sign Trubisky to backup Baker.

Eww.

I'd much rather we either keep Keenum or just let some young kid sit behind Baker.

Your the one cherry picking, first off Cousins didn't play for Minnesota in 2017 and your comparing Cousins' snaps counts for 2019 when he only played 15 games with 2018, 2020 and 2021 when he played 16 games. Also your not taking into account that Vikings WR Adam Thielen missed a big part of the 2019 season. If you figure in a 16 game season for Cousins in 2019 he threw 474 times without one his best players (Thielen) for 6 games and the fact that he finally had a healthy Cook. In 2020 with a healthy receiving group Cousins threw for 517 times exactly 43 more times than 2019 which is about the number of catches they lost in 2019 due to Thielen being out. Your just looking at the numbers and not how they came about.

Thanks for proving my point. Theilen missed 6 games in 2019 and yes that was a big target. Diggs though played every game that Cousins did and had his targets reduced from 149 in 2018 to 94 in 2019 - a reduction of 55 targets or a 36.9% reduction. The fallout didn't just hit Diggs because their Pro Bowl TE Rudolph had his targets also cut from 82 in 2018 to 48 in 2019 - a 41.5% reduction in targets while playing all 16 games. You can try to hang your hat on Thielen being hurt but you can't explain the drastic reductions in Diggs and Rudolph's targets when you'd naturally expect an uptick with Thielen sidelined for 6 games. Spin it any way you want - Stefanski has a history of suppressing the pass and through 2-years the Browns are in the bottom half of the conference in passing and scoring. That is "NOT" a formula for a consistent winner when you cannot compete on the same level as your opponent through the air.

This offense needs receivers who can spread the defense. Let the TEs do the dirty work over the middle.

Drafting receivers in the first round or paying a high-priced FA is all well and good, but it doesn't serve the overall goal of this offensive scheme

Stefanski needs situational receivers speed and red-zone. Speed is needed between the 20s mixed with hands and route-runners in the red zone.

This scheme is all about chewing up clock with scoring at the end. Keep our defense fresh. Wear down the opponent's defense. We fans have watched this time after time seeing Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Seattle, and New England over the years. It's not flashy but it wins. Berry and Stefanski are not building an offense that will win you money in fantasy football leagues!

Spend early draft picks building the OL, DL, and secondary. Yes, you need offensive playmakers, but having a strong OL allows you the freedom to be situational.

It's not an issue winning low-scoring games.

I call shenanigans.

I don't believe Stefanski is a run first coach, I believe the situation and the personnel dictate the play calling a lot of the time. If Stefanski had Tom Brady, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, and Gronk he's not going to run Fournette and Jones 60% of the time.

Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt are two of the best backs in the league. If we threw it 60% of the time people would be complaining we weren't running enough.

Also, keep in mind that Stefanski was long gone before Diggs was traded to Buffalo. Kinda hard to say he hated Stefanski's scheme and wanted out when Stefanski wasn't even there.

So.... I say bubkis on this whole theory.

Why did the Vikings get rid of Diggs?

Stefon Diggs says he wanted out of Minnesota because the Vikings were too committed to the running game. ... "(The Vikings) were kind of gearing towards a run-heavy (offense) at that time," Diggs said, per a transcription by The Viking Age. "I didn't know it going in. I didn't know it was going to be that way. Dec 14, 2020

Diggs, a University of Maryland product and the older brother of Dallas Cowboys rookie cornerback Trevon Diggs, reportedly suggested that he was misled about the Vikings' plans to implement a ground-and-pound approach on the offensive side of the ball.

"They were kind of gearing towards a run-heavy offense at that time," Diggs said on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown," according to Viking Age.

"I didn't know it going in," the 27-year-old explained. "I didn't know it was going to be that way. They only would allow me to do so much. In my eyes, it wasn't going to be in the best interest of my career."

Diggs then invoked a colorful turn of phrase when explaining how he felt the organization wasn't fully forthcoming with him.

"People were kind of -- I'm not going to say peeing on me and telling me that it's raining, that's a little bit harsh. But once you don't have trust with the person, it's hard to do business."

Clearly you don't know that Diggs demand to be traded occurred in December long before the Browns made Stefanski their new head coach. There's no smoke here when a player experiences a 36.9% reduction in targets and publicly calls out the team as running a run-heavy offense and suppressing the pass.

You can ignore the trend all you want but the fact still remains that Stefanski suppressed the pass as OC in Minnesota and has done the exact same thing here in Cleveland. Truth be known, OBJ had the same issue with Stefanski and more likely than not led to his formal request to be traded during the May-June timetable of 2021. Additionally, Stefanski clearly cut the targets to TE Rudolph while in Minnesota in 2019 and has blatantly cut the targets of Hooper after signing him to the richest contract ever for a TE at the time.

To say that passing more would take away from Chubb is just hogwash. CIN had a 1200 yd rusher with an explosive passing game. 2 out of the last 3 years the GBP had a 1,000 yd plus rusher with an explosive pass offense. Dallas had a 1,000 yd rusher with an explosive pass offense.

This trend is going to have a huge bearing on the Browns ability to rebuild the WR room. IMHO, no top tier #1 WR is going to consider coming to Cleveland willingly to have his targets cut by 25% or more. So now the question becomes are the Browns really trying to put Mayfield in the best position to be successful? According to Aaron Rodgers that answer would be "No."

Or....you can ignore the real truth that Stefanski was gone months before Diggs was traded and that you're blaming the wrong guy.

Also, and contrary to your claim, targets to TEs actually went up under Stefanski not down.

The problems in Minnesota were still there. The problems in Cleveland still exist. We definitely need better receivers or better receiver play. I don't agree that a #1 is not coming here because of the offensive scheme.

I think comparing Minnesota years with Diggs just shows how explosive our offense can be. Almost 18 yards per reception under Stefanski. He's not come close to that in any other season. We need to get ourselves a true #1 with speed. Baker has never had that.

j/c

I think the best way to view the KS offense with regards to the Brows personnel is to look back to the run of games in the second half of the 2020 season when the team and Baker was pretty healthy. We didn't have a true #1 WR - but the offense was ticking nicely.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2020/gamelog/

Pass attempts were anywhere from 20 to 53 per game ... average probably around 30-32-ish.

It seems to put Cleveland at the low end of the average - but only a few passes per game less than the teams in the middle of the pack.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-attempts-per-game?date=2021-02-08

I am not 100% convinced that the KS offense would prevent legit #1 WR's from coming to Cleveland - there are some (and Diggs and OBJ are two) that would probably be considered somewhat 'Divas' and might well want more glory and be more about their stats . But I don't think that is necessarily typical of every WR. And if we draft Burks or Wilson in the first round, it won't matter none anyway

That's exactly how it works. Having a losing season insures you never make the playoffs. Winning is the entire goal. You play to win the game. Showing how running a different system that you're promoting has led to losing games surely isn't a positive. I mean he has used examples of how passing more caused Minnesota to lose more games. Showing how using a system he dislikes led us to an 11-5 season and led us to the playoffs for the first time since 2002.

Coaches who win keep their jobs. Coaches who lose get fired. It's odd to see fans complain about winning.

Also j/c

The thing about 2020 is that we had a 2-3 game stretch where we played in awful weather for the long ball. Not to mention a game without receivers.

I have a feeling we won't see too much excitement on the QB front. In other words, Baker will stay but we may bring in a different backup. For as bad as Keenum is I don't think you can pay him that much.

And about Diggs, he's the only one telling you he didn't like the amount of passes his way, but I'm sure there's some stat guru (aka coach) out there looking at his 2019 thinking he had a great season. The thing is, the # of catches are great for things like fantasy football, but you can catch 2 yard passes all day long and never get a first down. 18 yds per reception? That's how you're going to win a Super Bowl.

We can win with our scheme, we just need the right personnel and need a little more speed.

Let me explain this again, in 2018 Cousins threw 606 times because the Vikings had no running game. In 2019 Cousins only threw for 474 times due to Cook being healthy and the loss of Thielen for 6 games and playing limited minutes in 4 others. In 2020 Cousins threw 516 times (which is approximately how many times Cousins would have thrown with a healthy Thielen in 2019).

Everybody's targets dropped from 2018 to 2019 because they finally had a running game and didn't have to throw so much coupled with Thielen's injury and the drop in Rudolph's targets was due to them drafting TE Irv Smith, in 2018 the Vikings had Rudolph and Conklin at TE Rudolph had 82 targets to Conklin's 7, in 2019 Rudolph had 48 targets to Smith's 47 targets.

Joe Burrow is the most overrated player in the NFL. Below average arm strength, cannot make all the throws, and is nothing without Chase. His entire playoff run his defense carried the offense. He didn't make one wow throw. His recipe of 8 yard lollipop, 8 yard lollipop, 8 yard lollipop, jump ball to Chase is going to catch up to him. His last three TD passes in the playoffs were a bubble screen the RB turned into a 50 yard TD, a jump ball to Chase in the red zone, and a jump ball to Higgins on a broken play in the Super Bowl that had no business of being completed.

Yet the media drones on and on and on about Joe Cool. Guy's head is getting bigger than the door he's trying to walk through. Did you see his suit he arrived to the Super Bowl in? Do you hear the things he says about expecting to be where they are? As much as I bag on Baker and his play, if he said those things or showed up like that, the media would be making fun of him. But not Joe Cool. Yet no one realizes he's one Chase injury away from 8-9.

Agree 100% with the last sentence.

I concur with The Rish (for once and only once)...

The only disagreement I have with your entire post is the 8 yard lollipops. He throws some 8 yard lollipops for sure...but he throws many more lollipops at or behind the LOS that get YAC'd. His long ball #vomit reminds me of the punts that Flacco used to throw.

People like to bag on the Bengal OL (including their own fans) but a crap OL does not create the #3 rusher in the league (Mixon) nor does it win playoff games. Joe may have a not-good OL (I'd say slightly below average) but he holds the ball like a Jr High kid holds his poop until school is over...yet no one talks about that. Baker holds the ball too long with Hance/Hudson "protecting" him on our weapon of an OL while throwing to a broken Landry, developing 6th Rd and a track guy. Riiiiight. With Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Ozamoah and Mixon (with Perrine) there is no excuse to hold the ball like Joe Annointed does.

Baker tells the world that he is the guy to turn around the Browns fortunes and he's labeled as Manziel. Joe talks shiz all postseason and he's Joe Namath. Bengal/Buckeye fans forgave Joe for bailing on the Buckeyes and taking his talents to LSU while Browns/Buckeye fans spew hatred at Baker for a flag-plant after he punked the Bucks and damn him for being a tough SOB and playing through a broken body. You can't make this stuff up for a movie.

Also, it was Zimmer who dictated how the offense would be ran in Minnesota after he fired DeFilippo and named Stefanski the OC.

From The Athletic....

The interview process that led to DeFilippo was one Zimmer grew to regret. He didn’t fully realize, despite the interview, that DeFilippo was going to run a shotgun, pass-heavy offense that was so contrary to what had led to Cousins’ previous success in Washington. Zimmer grew furious with the game plan and fumed after a loss in New England about how frequently they threw against light boxes, telling one coach they could’ve rushed for 200 yards that night. Instead, they finished with 95 rushing yards and only 10 points.

He fired DeFilippo a week later and hired Stefanski to overhaul the offense and transform it into a zone-rushing scheme relying on Cousins under center and using play action. The change flummoxed some on offense who didn’t understand why Zimmer maintained so much say in the scheme despite being frequently absent from offensive meetings. Zimmer dictated how the Vikings offense would look, seeking balance and an emphasis on the run game, but didn’t help with the offensive game planning. His desire for balance between the run and the pass left some players confused in a league that’s shifting more toward passing. It ultimately contributed to wide receiver Stefon Diggs demanding a trade.

Yep.

In 2019 while Stefanski was the OC Diggs caught 63 passes for 1130 yards averaging 17.9 yards per reception and 12 yards per target (his highest of his career)

This past year, Diggs caught 103 passes for 1225 yards (only 95 more yards on 40 more receptions) averaging 11.9 yards per reception and 7.5 yards per target (his second lowest in his career). These are Jarvis Landry possession receiver-like numbers.

Oh there will be many more.

I like Burrow as a QB, and I have seen him drop some dimes on longer throws. I do not think his throwing arm is as strong as Mayfield's, but I'm not sure that's all that important, having been a fan of Brian Sipe, and also Bernie Kosar after his elbow got wrecked in Kansas City. I stiil think Baker can be the man here, and I hope he shows that this season. There's more than one or two types of QB. What cracks me up about Burrow was how the media turned him into a personality all because he smoked a freaking cigar. Joe Cool, because he smoked a cigar. That's so lame its laughable. The other part of it is, if that had been Baker Mayfield puffing a stogie after a big win, he'd be crucified for an excess of in-your-face bravado, and oh, what about the example he's setting for the children? Total double standard, based on the narrative they want to emphasize.

Watch the games.

Bengals should be very concerned with how many hits Burrow is absorbing. They better take steps to protect him, or he might not play a full season next year. I don't know what injury he incurred in the SB, but it looked bad, like another ACL.

You make it sound like it is so easy for Burrow or for that matter
Any QB. To say Burrow is overrated seems like more indictitive
On disappointment that Baker has to reach Burrow's level
As a QB.
Like it not, Burrow is the best QB in the North and is probally
Top 7 in the NFL.
Burrow reached the SB in less than 30 NFL starts.
Thats behind a oline with issues on the right side
And a not exactly a Lindy Infante running the offense
You say.He is nothing without Chase, but Burrow was
Putting points up the board last year.
Chase is a unicorn, but that doesnt Burrow any less of a QB
Burrow is really good at pre snap reads, throwing recievers wide
Open and being able to change a culture
Things that Baker struggles with.
Lets see if Baker can ever rally a team in the 4th q.

J/C

a few random thoughts.

At the end of the season, teams do an evaluation of the previous season. Adjustments will be made via positives/negatives of the previous season, adjusting to changes in roster, getting healthy players back and etc. There will be changes to the offense/defense, how much of a change isn't known. It may be very minor, but the point is learning lessons happen every year. This is how a FO/coaching staff grows.


This whole talk about a #1 receiver not coming here is overblown. First off, the basics - we don't even know if the FO strategy is trying to sign one of the top receivers. Maybe their focus is on the middle tier and drafting a WR in the first or second. Second, if we are going that route, money talks. On average, free agents wish list ranking isn't how many targets they get...its usually money, winning, location then individual stats. There might be some changes to that formula, but either way money almost always rules with playoffs/Super Bowl contender second.

As Browns fans how many QB's have we had that "won over the city" and produced on the field...and we tossed them the next year because they fell short?

Cincy winning the Super Bowl will help attract free agents
Much like The Browns being able to reel in Johnson, Hill , Clowney last
With a very promising 2020 campaign.
The Browns and Bengals should in the running to win the North in 2022.
Im sure the Bengals will look into a Terron Armstead and Conner Williams
In FA. They wont go into 2022 with that oline from 2021.
Plus Cincy retains their coaching staff. Thats huge.

j/c

I think Burrows was easily a top 5 QB this year. I like that he's accurate and processes the game quickly. His arm strength is adequate. Complaining because he throws up jump balls for the best WR in the NFL seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. If the Browns had Chase I sure as hell hope we would design plays for the ball to be tossed up in the air for him to go get. I am also not sure complaining about a passing scheme that completes short passes that turn into YAC seems a like a winning argument. If it was that easy - & if Burrows was that trash - or that average - then every team would be doing it, and they aren't. When the Stefanski offense is ticking, we should see a lot of play action - I see people complain about that as if it's a knock on Baker because he can't throw from the pocket or something. I see Baker roll out and people complain about that. . . . it seems that when coaches design plays and offenses to help their players be successful, someone somewhere is suggesting it is because the player(s) aren't good. . . . Hell I might be guilty of that myself a little with Lamar - I have always been skeptical of him as a passing QB, Always said he will get hurt like other running QB's before him, I did give him mad props when he had one season with much better accuracy, but he seemed to struggle again with the passing this year. But bottom line is the Ravens are using Lamar to his strengths as they should.

Yes you can because you just did.

I guess, eventually, we'll see if that's true... maybe.

I would say that the answer to "money talks" is both yes and no. It depends on the age of a WR and how much difference there is in the money. And then one has to look at the contract structure. The only thing that really counts in an NFL contract is the guaranteed money. Everything else is invisible ink that can disappear at any moment. So the overall number of the contract is virtually meaningless.

Then we combine the age and money factor jointly. If a FA is say in their mid 20's, they could easily see another big contract in their future. In their late 20's they could get another huge deal. So if the money is close on two offers presented to them, they could see that just a little less money now in a system that is a pass heavy offense may help inflate their numbers for a future offer later. I mean three or four years an a pass heavy offense would surely look better three or four years from now than being in a more balanced offensive scheme that may limit your targets when looking for another contract on down the line.

If these kids didn't have lawyers, agents and advisors, I would tend to agree with you that it may only come down to immediate dollars. And sure, if an offer is much larger than the others it would be a no brainer. But then that team would be put in a position of paying over market value. So I think if you look at all of the details, it's not as cut and dry as it sounds.

If he has a future, both knees have already been damaged, and if Cintucky keeps ignoring their OL it won't be a long future ....