DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2022 NFL Season 2022 NFL Draft Offensive Lineman at #13?

Since OL is a major key to the Browns offense, I thought I start a thread on the offensive lineman.

Tyler Linderbaum, Center from Iowa, may be someone to look at. I remember how Alex Mack contributed. I'm not usually a fan of taking IOL in the first round, but you don't see good Centers ranked this high.


Kyle Crabbs Grade: 88.00/100 (First Round Value)

Doubt he's there when we pick... also, don't want OL in first round this year... our OL is pretty good... we need play makers... I'll be shocked if we don't go WR at 13

Well it would seem to continue the thinking of the last 58 championshipless years.
Touchdowns matter. Offensive linemen don't score touchdowns, or field goals, or defensively.

I get what you are saying, but why overpay on a player that last year would be the fourth or fifth best for that position? What one team had success drafting last year may not be the same this year.

Drafts are not like the grocery store where you can get what you need. Good teams learn to adapt and take advantage of what is available.

Tyler Linderbaum is one of those players that doesn't come along very often at the center position.

I believe there is a trend starting. Teams are building a stronger interior part of the offensive line. It is more cost-effective. They are making more use of the TE to help the tackles. Protecting the QB at lesser expense provides more cap space to add playmakers.

No, I don't think the Browns should start using early draft picks drafting interior linemen. Like JOK last year I think very good players fall to the second day. I do think teams in the middle of the first round will get some very good players because teams early in the round over-drafted.

Unfortunately, I think this year is not much of an advantage drafting early. It will be interesting what Berry does in this draft.

If he is there I think we would be foolish to pass. He might be the best player in the draft, be it non sexy.

Oh, he is absolutely a need. Who doesn't need all-pro type players? He also fills a need because Treeter is about done.

If you are drafting for needs, you aren't doing the best thing for the team.

You do realize Tretter just turned 31 this month. How many more years can you rely on Tretter?

Normally, I would agree with you, but in this year's draft, Center may be the value pick.

I remember Alex Mack. He was a pro-bowler for many years. I remembered when Cleveland drafted Alex. Browns Nation went ape s__t. It turned out he was a pretty solid pick. I think this draft has some very similar characteristics as 2009.

We have an heir apparent at C (Nick Harris).

I wouldn't be totally averse to the idea, especially if this draft really is as deep at WR and DE as folks are saying. You could easily get comparable production out of a 2nd round WR as you would a 1st round WR in this year's draft.


Tretter is golden here, but he's a free agent after this season and if this kid is this good then we fix a future hole before it happens.
I think that a Right Tackle is a FAR more pressing need if we were to go OL in the 1st, but, again, if the kid is this good, then it is hard to pass on.... he could well be BPA at #13.
Additionally, releasing Tretter pre-June 1st is a savings of $8.23 million on this year's cap. We have a TON of money tied up in that OLine as well as a bunch of age. It needs to start getting younger and cheaper at some point.
Tretter & Conklin are the obvious, immediate, places to look. Bitonio will start to get looked at in a year or two, though, he just needs to stay until he chooses to retire.


But, for as much as we need help on the OLine, I really want to get this offense some weapons that actually scare the bejeezus out of a defense and we are sitting perfectly to get one of the best WR's in this class.
Though, I guess that begs the question: just how good is that best WR? If they were in last year's class, or the class before that, where would they fall? Sure, they're the tops now, but where do they grade against guys already in the league?

I don’t see why we should be looking to get rid of Tretter. And if we did I would like to have his replacement on hand instead of hoping someone else doesn’t draft him.

This is the exact draft someone should take a center high because he’ll be a starter for years.

Well, IF this were to happen, you wouldn't release Tretter until after the Draft. You don't even have to wait until after June 1 since he is in the last year of his contract, the savings is the same pre- and post-June 1st.
You also wouldn't be pressed to release him at all unless you REALLY needed the additional $8.2 million in cap space to bring someone else in (or do a contract like Baker or Njoku or Ward).

Yes. I just don’t get the rush to replace him. Especially when our first round pick can be used to fill an actual hole on the roster.

This Kid (Tyler Linderbaum) may be as good at his position as Quentin Nelson was at G coming into the draft ... JMO

Tretter will be back next year and it will be another year for Nick Harris to develop to likely take over in 2023.

After all the money recently invested in the OL and the 1st round pick spent on Wills, the chances of the Browns going OL in the first round are....

j/c...

I just looked at the last 30 years of NFL Drafts. Only 16 centers have even garnered a 1st round pick. The highest of the bunch was the Browns Steve Everitt, drafted at 14.

I see seven Pro Bowlers... in 30 years of 1st round centers.

Is Linderbaum a perennial PBer and possible HOF talent? He would be the highest drafted Center since 1976.



Well, the easy answer is "at least one".

There is no way (in my mind) you can pass on the bulk of *possible elite* WRs available, at our slot, when that intersects with our area of greatest need.

Big picture? Draft for the future? We need to draft to see if we have a future. At least the future we thought we had planned for.

I draft a WR high, I sign another high-production WR in FA. I find out if this offense, coach and fQB are what I want on my payroll.

That is the only path to the future, and the best way to finish meandering towards an accurate pic of the future. It's now or wait another three years to see if you have a fQB never.

Don't forget we traded Austin Corbett to the Rams for a 5th round pick. Another young guy who the fans wanted run out of town because he was not a pro bowl player right away. He started 17 games for the Rams this year and he has a Super Bowl ring. Just another example of a player who the Browns fans wanted run out of town because they expect pro bowl players after their rookie year

He may be starting for the Rams but he is anything but a Pro Bowl player, unlike Teller who is a Pro Bowler.

Corbett was a bust and another poor draft selection by the Doof aka Dorsey.

He is no pro bowl player, but he is ten times better than most Browns fans gave him credit for being. Just more proof of Browns fans bashing good players because they are not pro bowl players. Were you one of the posters who wanted him run out of town?????? I don't remember.

Newsflash - I don't run anybody out of town and no I did not bash him, either.

The Browns traded Corbett (2nd round draft pick 33rd overall) for a 5th round pick. In 14 games for the Browns, he started exactly 1 game. He was given the RG position after Zeitler was traded and he was not able to keep the starting job.

And Jo Jo Natson will step in as a stating receiver.

It's called planning ahead?

We are not in the position to sit a first round pick for a year.

It does bring up an interesting discussion which was my intention.

I get the need at WR. After watching Chase last season, there will be many disappointed fans thinking these receivers will produce the same results.

As good as Chase was/is to the receiver position, you could tentatively state Linderbaum is to the Center position. Saying Nick Harris is the answer is all well and good until a few years from now. Fans are looking at an average receiver and average center wondering why Berry is a poor drafter. I can identify with what GMdawg stated.

FATE brought up some interesting statics regarding drafting a center in the first round. I did not know a Center wasn't drafted early since 1976.

I think many fans, me included, don't really know Berry's true plan to build this team. I am speculating the receiver position is not a key concern. The reason I say this is because the "pass-catchers" were not the key focal point in the play-calling last season. OBJ left not satisfied with the plan. Njoku was not utilized nearly as much as Hooper even though Njoku's receiving numbers were better. Other than OBJ and Landry the receivers were average at best.

So far, Berry drafted a Left-Tackle and Cornerback in the first round and a safety and hybrid-linebacker in the second. If Berry lets Landry walk, he is relying on a third and sixth-round wide receiver to lead the room. We can say he'll fix it by getting a FA receiver, but why let Landry go to pay someone else? Stay tuned to see how this plays out!

I agree with cfrs15 here. Berry drafts Linderbaum Tretter is gone. Andrew is making an expensive move drafting a center in the first round.

Don't get me wrong I like Tretter, but Linderbaum is projected to be equal or better than Alex Mack. It took Alex three or four games to nail down the position.

Fate,

I posted the same thing about centers in the draft thread on the 11th. I don’t see a need to draft for one this high with other needs, and if we do…there better be a trade back.



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Quote
Over the past 20 NFL drafts, 10 centers have been selected in the first round. Of those, the highest drafted center was Damien Woody, selected 17th overall by the Patriots back in 1999. The other nine centers have been drafted anywhere from 18th thru 31st, with an average pick of 23. Suffice to say, centers rarely go early in the draft, and on the random year when a center does get selected in the first round, somewhere like #21 overall (where the Bengals are sitting with their first round pick) would more than likely allow a team like the Bengals to select the best center in the draft



Link


Draft history by position




Anything’s possible, but if we are targeting a center….then I would expect a trade back.


Edit: last time a center was drafted close to our pick 13 was Steve Everitt (#14) 1993 Browns

Not the same thing. Harris has played some and played pretty ok. His only struggles have been when he's been asked to start at guard.

If Berry thinks the value is there, I don't think he'll hesitate to pull the trigger. I just doubt the math works out in the mid-first round.


If this guy that's God's gift to the center position drops into the back-half of the first or into the second (ala-JOK), then I think that primes Berry to make a move. Berry is a guy that can't ignore value at a draft spot.

I'm here too. It's extremely unlikely - bordering impossible - that we draft Linderbaum at #13. . . . [1] because of the top heavy investment in the OL already [2] Teams routinely show you do not need a stud at every slot along the OL to be win a SB [3] We have much bigger needs.

I doubt Linderbaum falls out of the middle of the 1st round and presents as a 'steal' - ALA JOK. He's possibly a top 10 player in the draft - uber athletic, skilled and smart.

Are you suggesting that the team traded Corbett because the fans didn't think he was good?

We traded him because of his on-field performance, limited though it was.

Ironically, getting rid of Corbett opened a spot (and maybe drove the acquisition of) Teller. So the same phenomenon that sent a 1st-round pick to the Rams to start on their SB-winning Oline also had us pick up (arguably) the best guard in football off another team's scrap heap.

So what I'm trying to say (if anything) is... I have no idea what to make of Olinemen that prove they have talent, but only after they leave their first team. It doesn't seem to be limited to highly drafted ones.

I mentioned Linderbaum as a potential player the Browns might take at 13 a couple of weeks ago. My thoughts are that Tretter is gone after this year as he will be a Free Agent and we have to much cap space tied up in the Oline to re-sign him and Conklin plus the fact that in my opinion Linderbaum is probably the best player in this draft. I know we have Harris and he has played OK when called upon but he was a 4th round pick for a reason and there is no guarantee that he could handle the position on a full time basis. I would prefer we take a WR at #13 but if we don't go that route than Linderbaum would be my pick.

Well you know, he isn't a pro bowler so he must be a bust. People can't seem to figure out that only 88 players in the entire league make the pro bowl each year. An average of less than three players per team. So you know, all the rest of them are busts.

So we’re saying John Dorsey traded a player he picked in the second round the prior the year because the fans didn’t like him?

Nothing I posted had anything to do with that. I'm not sure how you could have even used your imagination to come up with that. It was in response to this.......


It actually points out two things. Dorsey should probably never made the decision to let him go and that saying because a player doesn't make the pro bowl means he's a bust is a foolish thing to say.

Never said he was a bust because he was not a Pro Bowler.

I said he was a bust (for us) because he could not start anywhere on the OL for the Browns even though they traded Zeitler away expecting him to be the starting RG on the OL in addition to being the 1st pick of the second round (33rd overall).

IMO, that qualifies him as a bust (for the Browns). For the Rams, not so much.

That's what happens when you expect a rookie to step right in. He didn't have the time here to know if he was a bust or not. There are posters on here, including myself, who believe that you can't really evaluate a draft for three years. I think that's what happened here. Thanks for clarifying your intent.

Wasn’t he expected to start his second year? That’s below expectations for a second round pick, right?

As I said, and I'll say it again, I don't believe you can decide if a drafted player is successful until after three years. In his second year, 2019, once he went to the Rams he started 7 games. Since being a starter in his second year seems to be the point you're trying to make here. In year three Corbett stated all 16 games. In 2017 he started all 17 games. How anyone can consider that a bust is beyond reason.

I believe "I" can decide if a player is a bust in less than 3 years. "You" believe you cannot.

You draft a player in almost the 1st round and he starts 1 game in that time and is subsequently traded for a 5th round pick - yeah not a bust. You are right, year 3 was the year it was all going to work out.

I give Dorsey credit, he shipped him out while he could get a little something for him.

Also, really impressive that he started 17 games the year before he was drafted.

Dorsey thought he was a bust, correct?

I like Teller. The 2 problems I have are he is in his last year and he is at the point in his career where he doesn't practice during the season.

You might be right. Maybe Harris will be OK.

The question was asked if it is possible we go lineman and Linderbaum's name was brought up. I see Treeter at the end of his run in Cleveland and probably the NFL soon enough. Fine, maybe we don't go for a lineman in round 1. I agree it is a good bet we don't, but don't try to justify not taking Linderbaum because we have Harris.

The justification is no one has drafted a center that high since 1993.

IMO, Tretter isn't the odd man out if we draft this Linderbaum guy. It's Harris. He was built for this offense, and he's had a couple years to get everything in.

If we're confident in Harris, there's no chance that we take this Linderbaum. If we find Harris questionable at this point, then we very well may find ourselves with a new center. Either way, absolutely nothing would happen with Tretter before then, and even if we aren't enamored with Harris, unless we address WR sufficiently in free agency to where it isn't a dire need, there is little chance we'd drop our 1st on a Center. As much as I want us to take a Right Tackle, the same applies for it.

DLine and Wide Receivers are the priority until they're not, or until there are no more options available to help us this year.

I think you're arguing with yourself here. Of course it seems Dorsey thought he was a bust. Yet you said he should be a starter in year 2. I gave you factual evidence he did start 7 games in his second year. He has started every game since. So no matter what anyone thought, he has proven not to be a bust in the NFL.

Hammer.... Sure you can decide who you think is a bust in less than three years. But after seeing the fact that Corbett has started 40 games in a row since just past half way in his second season I would hope you see the flaw in that.

I think we pretty much agree here. I find the odds of going OL in the first very slim but not impossible. My reasoning as to why I think it's slim is the evidence of how I've seen Berrry attack the draft thus far. When he has seen a unit that needs heavy attention, he has tended to focus on building that unit through FA's and the draft in the same year. When you look at how he attacked the secondary in both the draft and FA. Then then have Wills and Conklin in the same year. It just seems he focuses on the department in terms of the most need.

As many resources that have been invested in the OL in terms of FA and the draft, I just don't believe the odds of investing heavily in that department again with a first round puck this year is likely. I have often believed that looking at what needs have been addressed in FA is a way to see what you probably won't see invested heavily invested in during the draft. But when looking at Berry's track record, it seems he will very much double and even triple down when rebuilding a unit.

I'm not sure that with such a WR heavy draft in terms of talent that I wouldn't wait until round 2 to address the WR position this year. I think there will still be a ton of talent on the board at that pick and the return on your investment may be better seen by doing that. But if Berry's history to date is any indication, he will hit the WR hard and early. If not I believe he may see DT or DE a more pressing immediate unit to address at the time if value can be found at those positions.

It will certainly be interesting.

Tab, 99 times out of 100 I am agreeing with what you are saying. There are two players in this draft Tyler Lenderbaum and Kyle Hamilton who are the exception. These are first-pick-in-the-draft quality guys if it wasn't for the position. It is why Aaron Donald wasn't taken first. I get it.

At thirteen, IMO, you have to give these two serious thoughts. It will be interesting to see what Andrew Berry does if one of the receivers are availabe along with Lenderbaum and Hamilton.

I think Penning goes mid to late 1st round, Tab.

Yeah, most mocks I've seen have him going late 1st to early 2nd.

This draft is definitely a riddle needing a solution. Many teams who do not think it through will suffer. In five years, less than a handful of the first-round picks will become starters. Watch and see how many are dumped and signed as situational players in five years.

There are many good players in this draft simply not great. If GMs approach it in this matter, they can gain value toward the depth of their roster.

Take what it gives. If you get a solid starter and a few back-ups or good special teamers, so be it.

Yet a lot of us thought the same thing about JOK so hope springs eternal!

So? That is a reason to follow today? It doesn't matter. The guy will probably go before our pick.

If that happens it will be a totally different departure and an entirely new trend for the Center position. Not saying it's impossible but I see it as very highly unlikely.

I believe the reason Centers are not taken early is there are positions of need (QB, Edge, OT, and Corner) that are higher priority. Not many teams will have these positions filled where they can justify drafting an interior lineman early.

I am still not sure Linderbaum is the correct choice at #13. For debate purposes, is the best Center in the last decade a better option than the third or fourth ranked Edge, OT, or Corner in this draft. For that matter, is it better than the second or third best receiver?

Lastly, is Linderbaum enough of a "difference-maker" to justify at #13. Personally, I am firm believer games are easier won by having strong players in the trenches. I am sure there are others who will strongly disagree and have valid reasons for it.

It is a reason to follow today. It hasn't happened in 30 years. Is it possible? sure, but it doesn't make sense.

We could still get a highly ranked WR, DE, LB, DL, CB. All who could have a huge impact on our team (especially if a team or a couple draft QBs in front of us). JC still could go another year. If we have to start Nick at least he's surrounded by two excellent guards in Bitonio and Teller and at least knows the system.

IMO, the reason Centers go around the 20 mark is the depth of the draft is starting to thin out. Every draft isn't deep, if a draft is deep in one or two areas say DE for example usually by 20 those top 4/5/6 DEs are already picked.



If we are picking a Center at 13, I am question the depth of this draft. A highly ranked DE, WR, DL playing at a Pro-Bowl level is way more important then a Center playing as one to us.



top 10 centers according to PFF (yes I added more)
Rodney Hudson - drafted 2nd round
Corey Linsley - 5th round
Frank Ragnow - 1st round (20th)
JC Tretter - 4th round
Jason Kelce - 6th round
Brandon Linder - 3rd round
Ben Jones - 4th round
Erik McCoy - 2nd round (48th)
Ryan Kelly - 1st round (18th)
Chase Roullier - 6th round
Ryan Jensen - 6th round
David Andrews - undrafted
Alex Mack - 1st round (21)
Matt Paradis - 6th round
Mitch Morse - 2nd round (49)
Creed Humphrey - 2nd round (63)
Trey Hopkins - undrafted
Bradley Bozeman - 6th round

I wanna see us take a WR at 13 Look at how well it worked out for the Bengals.... Question, is there a guy that good available at 13?

The Bengals had the third pick and took a receiver who has the best rookie season since Randy Moss.

Do you think there are any in his "league" in this draft?

No. And if there were they wouldn’t be available at pick 13.

Weird... Moss was drafted at #21.

Thank you for your response,,, can you tell me if there are any close to him we might be able to get at 13? If so, that's what I'd like to see us do.

Not because of his talent level.

Anyway, my point is that receivers like Chase aren’t available every year.

I don’t see anyone close to Chase being available in this draft.

I don't know if Chase's numbers will be matched by a rookie for awhile.

Yes he's a great player, but he also ended up on the same team as another great player who happened to be his teammate during the most prolific passing season in college football history. He already had great chemistry with his QB. That helps a lot.

Baker hasn't shown the level of trust Burrow showed in Chase in any of the receivers that have been here. I doubt he'll suddenly show it to a rookie he'll have never played in a live game with.

Unfortunately, it's not just about the player. It's about the situation that he's thrust into.

I don't see our situation resulting in a Chase-like outcome.

Maybe a healthy, confident Baker will "surprise" me (I do expect him to play better). I'm not sure that I see huge WR numbers in this offense, though.

We should sign Dede Westbrook.