Do elaborate. I'm not picking on or lashing out at you, just curious as to what you have to say. I honestly feel that most men in this country are soft as babies bottom.
After a night of sleep and upon reding the comment a second time, I see it maybe wasn't directed specifically at me. I understand your point, we do have a lot of wimpy people in this country. Too much wishbone and not enough backbone.
If we were attacked, I would like to think many would fight, but then I don't have all that much faith many don't really care for the country and what it stands for.
I do think you would see some pockets of the country simply fold.
There are a lot of reasons for this that would be for another thread, but you are probably right.
Something that struck me recently. My wife and I wanted to downsize so we cashed out on the home recently to get away from all the home maintenance, etc. Plus, it was a good time to cash out. You know, buy low, sell high. We may buy again when that time becomes right.
We now live in a nice 2 bedroom apt. Almost 1400 sq feet, so it isn't dinky. We have a daily valet garbage pick-up at the complex. Recently the mgt. sent a memo about people putting 2 bags out or not properly placed in the garbage container. They requested we take a picture and send it to them to report the tenant, who would be assessed a $25 fee per bag, per violation.
We don't do that. I don't have a problem getting out of my chair and walking a bag of trash over to the compactor if we have extra in any given day. My point is WTF is that all about? First, have the employee or contracted employee make the report, and second, what kind of a little wimp is going to do that? If the neighbor is doing that, knock on the door and tell them their garbage is leaking on the hallway carpet making it look bad and smell.
If that doesn't work or they give some sheet, then report them. Don't slink around like some little punk taking pictures.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I’ve been thinking about this. I really hope I don’t jinx the situation, but I think Putin overplayed his hand.
I started thinking about what Russia’s end goal is, which is speculative, I admit. But let’s assume they topple the government, remove or even kill Zelensky, and install a pro-Russian government. They can’t just leave. They will have to stay. That requires occupation.
I don’t think Russia is prepared for an occupation.
We struggled with occupation, and we toppled two governments that were autocratic and oppressive. Russia is invading a country that had a grass roots movement to elect a democratic government.
It was something the people believed in and installed. We see that with the continuing resolve, from the president, the ex-president, the troops, and the citizens.
Putin is essentially invading and telling them that they can’t have what they want. They have to have what he wants…and they’ve already had what they want in place for 8-ish years.
He’s a very cunning leader, but like Swish mentioned, he never put himself in a risky position like this one. He always waited for others to screw up, without actually taking his own initiative. Now he’s officially crossed the rubicon of being an open aggressor vs an opportunist.
He’s been asking the military and citizens of Ukraine to turn on their government, an out of touch request that seems to have fallen on deaf ears. He’s been met with a lot of defiance. I don’t think it can work out well for him.
Heaven forbid he actually thinks he can extend beyond Ukraine and engages in a fight with a NATO partner. Then he’s tasked with both occupying Ukraine while simultaneously engaging in active combat with another country.
Maybe some of those who have been part of our occupying forces could shed more light as to the validity of my speculation.
I’m sure some of my speculation is based on hope of his failure. We’ll see.
JMHO
thats basically it.
people have to remember that when we were in afghanistan and iraq...it wasn't just us, our allies, and whoever the enemy was. Russian soldiers were out there in the afghan mountains as well. other countries aligned with Russia had some units out there as well. just like there were saudi and iranian units in iraq. and they weren't assisting the US...
it isnt just us occupying the country. it rarely ever is. there's always somebody else trying to gain influence throughout the chaos.
destroying enemies and being an occupying force are two different things, and a lot of times our education/media doesn't make that clear to the people. destroying enemies involves defense, offense, take their stuff and leave.
occupying a country is a hearts and minds game. the goal is to NOT be their enemy, but convince them that we're assisting them and defending against the true enemy. even still, that's relative to the observer. Putin was banking on a divided EU/NATO. remember, for the last 4 years, he had a POTUS do all the divisive work for him. trashing european allies, undermining NATO, taking his side over american intelligence in a live press conference, arguing in favor of Russia being brought back into G7 and such, and so many other things. that division is what led to some european leaders questioning NATO, making their own trade agreements with regard to energy, etc.
Putin was banking on that level of divisiveness to carry over in the Biden administration and the EU. he was hoping for a quick victory against ukraine, which makes it easier to occupy ukraine with complete access to the Black Sea. at that point. its easier to "build a wall" near bordering NATO countries, because you already have a buffer zone in ukraine with a puppet regime in place. that completely negates any sanctions, because he gained territorial control without losing any leverage with oil and gas production.
his mistake was banking on the divisiveness to cover his ass long enough to take ukraine. not only did the US and EU unite far quicker than he anticipated, but ukraine is putting up much more of a fight than he expected. and its coming to light that since 2015, America has been training ukrainian special forces and other units this entire time. the fact that we are somewhat quickly resupplying ukrainian forces is throwing Putin off.
again, the sanctions dont mean anything if taking ukraine was relatively quick. however, that isnt the case now. the longer this drags out, the more anti-war sentiment that grows within his own borders. its one thing to be hated in ukraine; its another to not even have the backing of your own people. Russians didnt care about crimea because it was more or less taken without much hostility.
and his biggest mistake was thinking ukraine and most of the EE supported his delusional ideology.
the thing about occupying territory is you actually have to behave like an ally. i can go on about the failures in iraq and afghanistan, but at least we had thousands trying to assist us in making the area safer, regardless if it failed. Putin isn't getting that. he is being straight up rejected by ukrainians and his own people right now. he can't occupy Ukraine in the traditional sense, because he has very little support. for Russia to have Ukraine, it has to be a real take over. its hard to take over when you have the POTUS calling your strategy out before you even make it. its hard to take over with ukrainian people straight up pushing back against you, and its gonna get harder to even justify the invasion once the sanctions start hitting the russian people even harder.
This is what happens when you try to go it alone. when you're the "i alone can fix it" guy. you realize the hard way that nah, not only are you NOT doing anything alone, the majority doesn't want anything to do with you.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
again, Putin's war has had the complete opposite effect. we have countries wanting to JOIN NATO more, not less.
good job playing yourself.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Putin may have bitten off more than he can chew, but I warn everyone to not underestimate him. He seems hellbent on putting the Soviet Union, or a Russia with borders like those of the Czars in place before he exits the world stage. I think any number of things might happen. Most of them bad.
You got that right. He's an old man with an ego problem, and has a lot of nastiness at his disposal.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Putin may have bitten off more than he can chew, but I warn everyone to not underestimate him. He seems hellbent on putting the Soviet Union, or a Russia with borders like those of the Czars in place before he exits the world stage. I think any number of things might happen. Most of them bad.
I agree. He may be trending to more deranged, but I’d have to believe he’s still extremely smart and savvy, and definitely not to be underestimated.
This will get way worse before it could get better.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
again, Putin's war has had the complete opposite effect. we have countries wanting to JOIN NATO more, not less.
good job playing yourself.
IMO this all could have been avoided, if NATO routinely accepted any country that asks to join NATO. And to make it official within days rather than years. Also NATO countries should show the same defiance as Putin and threaten preemptive military action against countries like Russia who threaten sovereign states to a bloody war who are asking to join NATO.
‘Enlargement of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) is the process of adding new member states. NATO is a military alliance of twenty-eight European and two North American countries that constitutes a system of collective defense. The process of joining the alliance is governed by Article 10 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which allows only for the invitation of "other European States", and by subsequent agreements. Countries wishing to join have to meet certain requirements and complete a multi-step process involving political dialogue and military integration. The accession process is overseen by the North Atlantic Council, NATO's governing body.”
Last edited by PerfectSpiral; 02/26/2211:50 AM.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
He says something very interesting right around 11:00 in the video, something that western media has been very slow to pick up on, which is that this war has been going on for 8 years and he specifically says "not a frozen conflict but a hot war". I feel like media either intentionally or through ignorance is portraying this as an abrupt and unprovoked attack. It is not. We have been pumping money into the country and through proxies been providing training on guerrilla tactics for 8 years. Tens of thousands of people have already died, the vast majority of deaths have been caused by the Ukrainian militias upon the separatist rebels.
Ukranian leaders like this man have kept this conflict on-going by arming these militias and refusing to abide by the terms of the Minsk Accord, which they agreed to.
The U.N. needs to stand with the Ukrainian people in this invasion, but must also stand for the rights of the ethnic Russians within the Donbas. While this Ukrainian leader is inspiring, people need to understand that his militarism and eagerness to engage in conflict is part of the problem that has prevented a cease fire over the last 8 years.
Agreed. But nuke us? We nuke back. While we apparently don't have as many nuclear bombs as Russia, we have enough.
Here's the thing about all of this talk about "who has the most nukes". Both Russia and America each have more than enough nukes to destroy the face of the earth several times over. At that point "who has the most" is irrelevant. At that point the question becomes who has the most sophisticated method of deployment.
Russia deploying nukes, or any other country doing so for that matter, would insure the total destruction of their own country as well. It's a no win proposition.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
what I find interesting is that Russia is fighting a war with Ukraine with troops, tanks, planes, and guns.
The rest of the world seems to be using Twitter to make up false reports of downed plans, blown-up tanks, and other Ukraine's successes to rally Ukrainian people and get them to fight back.
Also, people are using social media to get Russians to march in the streets and condemn Russia.
War today is much different than war 10 years ago.
it also goes to show you how easily/quickly people can be manipulated.
He says something very interesting right around 11:00 in the video, something that western media has been very slow to pick up on, which is that this war has been going on for 8 years and he specifically says "not a frozen conflict but a hot war". I feel like media either intentionally or through ignorance is portraying this as an abrupt and unprovoked attack. It is not. We have been pumping money into the country and through proxies been providing training on guerrilla tactics for 8 years. Tens of thousands of people have already died, the vast majority of deaths have been caused by the Ukrainian militias upon the separatist rebels.
Ukranian leaders like this man have kept this conflict on-going by arming these militias and refusing to abide by the terms of the Minsk Accord, which they agreed to.
The U.N. needs to stand with the Ukrainian people in this invasion, but must also stand for the rights of the ethnic Russians within the Donbas. While this Ukrainian leader is inspiring, people need to understand that his militarism and eagerness to engage in conflict is part of the problem that has prevented a cease fire over the last 8 years.
So if Russia backed a takeover of say Florida and Russian separatists took control of Florida, the US shouldn't fight to take that part of the country back? Sure there are no pro Russian forces in FL (other than the orange orangatan) and it doesn't border Russia... But you get the point.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I have no idea how Americans weren't aware of this ongoing conflict. It was years ago when Trump tried to use military aid that had been approved by congress as blackmail against Ukraine while this was all going on. Did people forget already?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Lol. She's asked about how we can support Ukraine. It took all of 30 seconds to bring up Trump and spent the remaining 6 minutes talking about him. American politics at it's finest.
I made myself listen to the one minute mark and quit, thanks for taking one for the team.
I wondered why OCD posted it... for about two seconds.
Reminder, Hillary Clinton's foreign policy was a complete and utter disaster. She doesn't really have any expertise or experience to speak on such matters. She is NOT someone I'd want to consult with considering her past failures.
I have no idea how Americans weren't aware of this ongoing conflict. It was years ago when Trump tried to use military aid that had been approved by congress as blackmail against Ukraine while this was all going on. Did people forget already?
The Trump stooges don't wish to acknowledge when Trump illegally withheld already appropriated funds that were to aid this ally who was at war with Russian separatists, or to accept why this was so egregious. I forget the reason Trump did that now, I am sure it was for something very important to our country.
Last edited by mgh888; 02/26/2203:23 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
This is very true. Putin must have thought that with the gas and oil he was selling to European countries like Germany, they were going to be hands off. He also thought that he could just waltz thru into Kiev and also fracture NATO. What he is finding out on both fronts is he horribly miscalculated. There is help coming from other countries also
This is very true. Putin must have thought that with the gas and oil he was selling to European countries like Germany, they were going to be hands off. He also thought that he could just waltz thru into Kiev and also fracture NATO. What he is finding out on both fronts is he horribly miscalculated. There is help coming from other countries also
Yep - Putin really needs an epic, global bitch slap. And China shouldn't be left unscathed for their enablement and if their was truly any duplicity.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Pretty certain there's video of Biden basically bragging about withholding funds from Ukraine if they didn't fire a prosecutor.
trump canceled 400 million aid to Ukraine near the end of 2019 when they would not investigate the Bidens-
Biden on Friday released 350 million more aid to Ukraine-The third time this year we have released aid to Ukraine totaling more than 1 billion dollars.
From the article with link listed below
President Biden late Friday ordered the release of up to $350 million for military aid for Ukraine.
Biden ordered for the money to be allocated from the Foreign Assistance Act “in defense articles and services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training, and to make the determinations required under such section to direct such a drawdown.”
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a statement on Saturday that it represented the country's third drawdown of money to Ukraine in the last year, totaling more than $1 billion.
Japanese bulk carrier hit by missile, count of stricken ships rising to 3, Ukraine Posted in Maritime Security by Mikhail Voytenko on Feb 25, 2022 at 16:56.
Japanese bulk carrier hit by missile, count of stricken ships rising to 3, Ukraine Japanese bulk carrier NAMURA QUEEN was hit by Russian missile on Feb 25 at Yizhniy Port outer Anchorage, Ukraine, Black sea, according to ship’s agent report. Superstructure was hit, inflicting serious damages. 2 or more crew were injured, there was fire, which reportedly, is already extinguished. So the photos published earlier and named as photos of shell-hit tanker MILLENIAL SPIRIT, are actually, the photos of missile-hit Japanese bulk carrier. NAMURA QUEEN arrived at Yuzhniy Anchorage on Feb 23, she’s to load grain. MILLENIAL SPIRIT meanwhile, is said to suffer fire, destroyed lifeboats, other equipment, and crew reportedly, abandoned the ship. Overall, by evening Feb 25 Russian shells, bombs and missiles hit at least 3 ships, including Turkish bulk carrier YASA JUPITER, bunker tanker MILLENIAL SPIRIT, and Japanese bulk carrier NAMURA QUEEN.
This is very true. Putin must have thought that with the gas and oil he was selling to European countries like Germany, they were going to be hands off. He also thought that he could just waltz thru into Kiev and also fracture NATO. What he is finding out on both fronts is he horribly miscalculated. There is help coming from other countries also
Maybe the US has discussed exporting some of our 84 year supply of natural gas to some of these countries. Driving home thinking last night -- there are plenty of things we (the rest of the world) can do to make things very painful for Russia.
Let's hope this SWIFT ban goes through.
There's an outside shot at this being the dumbest decision, and dumbest move, by any wold leader in modern history.
Like I said. False equivalent. Details matter. You are better than that - or you aren't paying attention, or you bought into the right wing MSM spin, or you don't care.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
One of the main reason's Ukraine isn't in NATO -- Corruption. Ukraine has to do more to eliminate corruption to enter Nato.
At the time of the $1 Billion loan guarantee - it was stipulated by the USA that in order to receive the funds a prosecutor that the rest of Western Europe AND the USA had identified as either being corrupt or someone not doing enough to address corruption had to be removed.
When Biden visited - the prosecutor had not been removed. Biden - acting on behalf of the US and with the backing of European counties, forced the prosecutor to be removed.
If you think that is the same as Trump delaying and threatening to cancel already appropriated funds unless Ukraine reopened a case against the son of his political opponent --- well I really don't know what to tell you.
The two things are nothing alike - I suggest you change your news source if you have been led to believe differently.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The left on this board will never criticize Biden. He gets a free pass on everything. Just have to accept it, just as we accept the sun will rise in the east.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
On the thought of Putin is in over his head. If he can't take Ukraine, but is too stubborn to pull back/give up, and Russian anti-war protests continue to grow. How likely is it Russia will destabilize? If it destabilizes , what's the risk of a madman get hold of Russia's nukes?
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
The left on this board will never criticize Biden. He gets a free pass on everything. Just have to accept it, just as we accept the sun will rise in the east.
When Biden deserves criticism - not for a bogus story about withholding funds from Ukraine. But then details and specifics matter. I am sure it's much easier just to post "never" and "free pass on everything".... Hell, OCD pretty much hates Biden and everything he stands for, but you probably wouldn't want to acknowledge that. Just label him a Leftie Libtard Biden Lover.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Biden has surprised me with a few things. He's been fairly progressive at points. But I think some of the Manchin drama was staged on the Build Back Better plan. And the thing I dislike most is that he thinks he needs the Party of insurrection to move forward as they do their best to destroy democracy from within…
He says something very interesting right around 11:00 in the video, something that western media has been very slow to pick up on, which is that this war has been going on for 8 years and he specifically says "not a frozen conflict but a hot war". I feel like media either intentionally or through ignorance is portraying this as an abrupt and unprovoked attack. It is not. We have been pumping money into the country and through proxies been providing training on guerrilla tactics for 8 years. Tens of thousands of people have already died, the vast majority of deaths have been caused by the Ukrainian militias upon the separatist rebels.
Ukranian leaders like this man have kept this conflict on-going by arming these militias and refusing to abide by the terms of the Minsk Accord, which they agreed to.
The U.N. needs to stand with the Ukrainian people in this invasion, but must also stand for the rights of the ethnic Russians within the Donbas. While this Ukrainian leader is inspiring, people need to understand that his militarism and eagerness to engage in conflict is part of the problem that has prevented a cease fire over the last 8 years.
So if Russia backed a takeover of say Florida and Russian separatists took control of Florida, the US shouldn't fight to take that part of the country back? Sure there are no pro Russian forces in FL (other than the orange orangatan) and it doesn't border Russia... But you get the point.
I think you misunderstand the history of Ukraine. They are called separatists as a way to disparage them. The government of Ukraine, prior to 2014 was democratically elected. It represented the interests of all Ukrainians and they got by via compromise. No one group got everything they wanted, but they weren't murdering each other. This state of compromise allowed them to walk the line between Russia and EU and NATO. That government was overthrown with the aid of the U.S. and a right wing government installed that was very one sided, so right wing in fact that actual Neo-Nazis are represented in the government. Because some parts of Ukraine refused to recognize this new government, they are called "separatists".
Should the Ukrainians fight? They have been for eight years. I think they should negotiate a cease fire. Allow the Donbas region to form its own independent country, reject talk of joining NATO ( the citizens don't even want that), and leave the door open to entering the EU (which their citizens actually want). If they had taken that approach a year ago, there wouldn't be a Russian invasion.
Maybe - but I think it's a giant and enormous assumption to suggest that most Ukrainians don't want to join Nato or that they should be stopped from doing so because Russia doesn't want to allow it. I mean - I am not an expert, the internet is often full of misinformation, but the first article I find if I google the questions suggests in 2021 62% of Ukrainians are in favor of joining Nato. https://www.statista.com/chart/26933/ukrainians-survey-nato-eu/ --- no I cannot vouch for the credibility of the info or website.
And based on your logic - should Quebec and French Speaking parts of Canada that want to seed should be allowed to? The Basque separatists should be given what they want in Spain? What about Scotland and being part of EU or Scotland? What % of a region/country needs to be in favor of separation for it to be valid? 50.1% .... We just had the UK leave Brexit through such a (stupid) vote - all it did was create division and hate and there isn't much end in sight to the bitterness 5 years later. Then if we go back to Russia - what happens to the old USSR territories ? Can Putin regroup and launch similar occupations of Georgia or Lithuania or the other 10+ countries? Which ones have a % of the population that are pro-Russia? If they all move to an annex bordering Russia would it then be okay?
I think what you are suggesting is a rabbit hole. Without really knowing enough - it smacks of people thinking they have a simple solution to real world problems that are so much more complicated. The middle east, Northern Ireland, Palestine ... There's an expert somewhere that tells you "All you have to do is .... "
Last edited by mgh888; 02/26/2206:05 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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