DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

Have amazing respect for this man... prying for his safety and his country.... amazing leader... and the Ukraine people have shown amazing resolve...

I think it's mostly what Squires implied. Pretty sure he is reserving his tougher forces until after he tested the Ukraines first. I have to believe this because how on Earth can the Russian Military be this wimpy?

It's impossible to keep up with all the reporting on Ukraine.

It happens on every schoolyard playground: The Bully and his crew run s# for years, through fear and intimidation.

Then, one day, the bully picks on his next-door neighbor... that Quiet Kid- and Quiet Kid doesn't back down. In fact, when Bully starts up some physical mess, Quiet Kid has no problem with that, either. He doesn't just cover up and take a beating like that Crimean kid. He swings back. And he connects. More than once. Now, Bully's nose is bleeding, his crew is stunned, and the entire schoolyard is watching. What next? Bully goes to "the nukes"... his version of "Wait 'til my big brother comes here... you'll all be sorry-"

The entire schoolyard looks on...

Now, all those other kids who have been watching Bully & his crew, wondering when they'll be next, are starting to openly pull for/support Quiet Kid. Strength in numbers, we see newfound courage from all those other smallish Quiet Kids who just tried to get along with everyone, while trying to escape Bully's gaze. Some of them actually live on the same block as The Bully. Others live only 1 block away, and feel only slightly safer than their less fortunate schoolyard friends.

_______________________

I really think this dude stopped listening to anyone but himself quite some time ago, and has brought all of us to this place because of the internal monologue that's running in his head.

I want to think that he'll eventually see that this thing he's done has had the opposite outcome that he'd envisioned, that he read the room poorly, and that he'd just give it up/retreat/hit 'refresh'. The realist in me won't allow that from myself. I'm extremely concerned that this little man who has cornered himself by his own actions will take this to a Cold War Horror Scenario we all feared, but never experienced.

We are living in extremely dicey moments, right now.

Because anything surge at this point automatically triggers NATO intervention. The threshold has already been crossed, so nobody is gonna let Ukraine fall to Putin. And it looks like supplying them with intel, training and equipment was all that was necessary. They held their own against Putin. But remember, that’s US/NATO/ally equipment and such aiding them in their fight. It’s Russia and…who else?

Remember, he can’t use the big stuff anymore. You see the US hasn’t for a while now. That’s not what combat is. It cost way too much money to rebuild cities that you just spent a crap ton of money blasting away. No point in taking Kyiv if you destroyed it. There’s nothing to occupy then. We don’t do battles in the middle of nowhere anymore. That’s where all the big toys get shot at, but that’s not how warfare is fought today. Putin has the big guns, but today’s environment says you needed smaller units trained for urban operations in those conditions. That was completely neglected by Russia. You can tell my their trash equipment and poorly trained soldiers. You can tell how the US trained Ukrainian soldiers why they are holding their own. Better equipment and better strategy.

It’s like Obama and the pentagon been telling us for years now. The roll of war changes, the equipment needed is different. We’re not storming the beaches of Normandy anymore.

If the nukes fly, none of us will have to worry for long bro. Just saying.

I agree with what you said.

Unfortunately I believe Putin is the kind of dude that will nuke his own country before he surrendered or admitted defeat.

But if that happens we are all dead anyway. We can’t let clowns like that be able to hold that over the worlds head.

Dear Lord, I pray that never happens...

Nobody is nuking Cleveland

Meanwhile in Atlanta we are dust.

I live about 10 miles from NORAD. If the nukes fly, it was nice knowing you all.

I hope Putin is somehow assasinated by his inner circle because he is crazy. And they will just report he was sick and died.

If the nukes fly, you should hope you are lucky enough to go during the initial blasts, and pity the survivors. After all out nuclear war, the chances of survival are slim to none, and those who survive will suffer the most.

I saw one clip during his nuke announcement and his general, defense staff, some of them looked very unsettled and apprehensive about what he was saying. I would have to believe if he gave the order to push the button they wouldn't do it. I would hope so.

I would have no problem with that outcome whatsoever.
Truth be told: I'm actually OK with any measure that would lead to the same outcome.

And if it was grim, gory, wet, and captured in 4K... it would be the first and only snuff film I'd ever allow myself to watch.

See, I’m now that’s what I would have thought too, BUT, he needed to take over Kyiv in a very short timeline in order to make any of this work. However, he sent in a bunch of greenhorns. Maybe he thought he could get away with doing just that, but it seems pretty clear he could not.

It doesn’t make sense to me. As a parallel, it would be like us saying “Hey, we know where Bin Laden is. We need to act really quickly. Before the other countries know what we’re doing”

“Okay, cool. Send in the reserve unit from Omaha naval reserve.”

After Nick Berg, nothing shocks me anymore. I'd seen death in real life, on video, in pictures, and books. But that video sort of switched off my humanity when it comes to these things, like in the Vampire shows. When the world kills a monster, I want the video out there. Maybe the would-be-monsters will watch and think again. Or perhaps it will help those terrorized sleep just a little better at night. There is good in everything, and this f'd up world needs all the tiniest bits of good it can find.

Are there any DT posters who don't admire Zelenskyy at this point? If your country was being invaded, would you fight for and with a President like that? I'm not man crushing, I'm just putting the question out there.

If this was football, he'd be Tom Brady. The GOAT.

Putin’s allies abandon him over Ukraine invasion

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-allies-abandon-him-over-145753271.html

Several of Russia's closest allies and former Soviet satellite states have sharply rebuked President Vladimir Putin over his unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Why it matters: As the Western world seeks to make Putin an international pariah, even his closest allies are resisting showing support for his assault on Ukraine.

Driving the news: Czech President Milos Zeman and Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban, both historically strong pro-Russian voices in the European Union, condemned the affront as "an unprovoked act of aggression," AP reports.

"Russia has committed a crime against peace," Zeman said.

Zeman, who earlier this week insisted that Russia wouldn't attack Ukraine, changed course and has called for harsh sanctions against Russia, including pulling out of the SWIFT financial system.

Orban, who has pursued a diplomatic and economic strategy with Putin called "Eastern Opening," condemned "Russia's military action."

“Hungary’s position is clear: we stand by Ukraine, we stand by Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty,” said Hungary's Foreign Minister Peter Szijijarto, per AP.

What's happening: Kazakhstan, one of Russia's closest allies, denied a request for its troops to join the attack on Ukraine, per NBC News.

The Czech Republic closed Russian consulates in the country and stopped issuing visas to Russians except for humanitarian cases.

The president of Bulgaria, which was Russia's closest ally during the Cold War, said the invasion was "absolutely inadmissible."

The ruling coalition leaders in Romania called Russia "the architect of the worst security crisis since World War II."

Moldovan President Maia Sandu said Russia’s attacks were launched "in violation of international norms," and the international community "unanimously condemns these military actions."

And Germany and Italy, which have strong economic ties to Russia, are both poised to support a European Union measure to cut Russia from the international SWIFT financial system.

Between the lines: China, which has deepened economic and military ties with Russia in recent years, has straddled the fence between supporting Russia's "legitimate security concerns" and calling for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity to be respected.

China abstained from a UN resolution on Friday criticizing Russia's attack, a departure from its usual practice of vetoing Western-led measures.

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nevermind, right wingers. looks like you gotta scratch Hungary off the list of places to move to for right wing utopias.

Couple things. First, Putin may be in charge of the nuclear arsenal, but he doesn't push the button, so let's hope those that do are in the circle that is abandoning him.

Second, when this is all over, I imagine Putin will be removed from power, what do you all think happens in Russia with the government? Do the people demand a change in the structure and control?

I don't know about that. What could be worse that radiating the largest supply of freshwater in the world? Dropping a few in Lake Superior would eventually find it's way to all the great lakes.
?

j/c…

I think it possible Putin is a bit unhinged. When you have been a world player for as long as he has, it must be hard to see your influence diminishing. This could be an expression of him wanting it back. Hitler became that way in the later stages of WWII.

We have to hope we can talk this guy down. Fighting it out isn't going to solve anything. Not being able to just run over Ukraine in a conventional manner has to be a blow to the guys ego. I am beginning to wonder if some of the troops might not be trying all that hard to do so.

My hope is the inner circle in the Kremlin are having doubts about Putin and his capacity. My hope is those Generals and kids sitting in silos have a lick of sense. Much like Rommel and several other top Nazi generals came to the conclusion that Hitler had gone mad, and tried to blow him up, my hope is something similar happens in Russia.

I think 95% of the citizens of Russian and the military don't agree with this move. The problem is what 5% does?

your second question is the interesting one. the world left Russia alone when they collapsed in the 90's. i cant imagine we do that again.

the US shouldnt be directly involved, but i would like to see the EU take control over the oil and gas industry at minimum. its a good way to make russia pay for all the crap they caused, and would greatly benefit energy for our allies and our own country.

He said that whole thing without skipping a beat and a smirk on his face. Dayam

What's "a sharp rebuke" worth these days? Lemme know when any of those guys actually do anything.


My family is all Hungarian, and if there is anyone that should NOT be in the bag for Russia, it's them. The things the Russians did to Hungary after WW2 were pretty gnarly.

Even if Putin is removed, the Oligarchs control the money, power, and influence, and they will replace him with somebody who will serve their interests unless there is a full blown rebellion that topples them too (ie. the French revolution)...

Interesting seeing the polling and reporting on what the average Russian thinks of this invasion... based on what I've seen, it is fairly evenly divided between those who support this and those who don't. Those who don't are generally younger, active on social media, understand that Russia is invading a sovereign nation, view the Ukranians as their brothers and sisters, and just want peace. Those who do are generally older, remember the glory days of the Soviet Union, think it can be rebuilt, and believe the propaganda and misinformation campaign that Putin has pushed out about how Russia is really the victim in all of this.

People can read into that whatever they want, but if anybody thinks we are all that different from them, they are naive.

j/c...

Good, but, I thought we were already doing that.

First, I just want to say how much I appreciate you aggregating and posting all the stuff that you have. Seriously, I cannot fully put into words how great it is to come to one place and see everything that's already gone through a filter. Just wanted to say that first.


That said, how confident are we regarding the info we're getting about Russia's progress? I'm no military expert person, but I was expecting Russia to steamroll Ukraine regardless of level of resistance. So hearing about Russia's military getting their nose bloodied, while inspiring, has me highly skeptical.

Just asking where everyone else is regarding what we're hearing.

Nice post and I agree. And to add, Russian troop morale is low because who really wants to kill their brothers and sisters.

It has been reported that some of the captured Russian troops have said they weren't even aware that they were invading Ukraine, they thought they were on a training exercise. So considering that most soldiers are of the younger group, I can only guess they thought that if they told them what they were doing, they may not have complied.

Long thread on all the Russian equipment/tanks/vehicles that have been destroyed...

I would imagine confirmation bias plays a part everywhere in the world in what people choose to believe and support. What the older generation being fed propaganda in Russia choose to believe is not a whole lot different than what large parts of the US wanted to believe with 'Make America Great Again' .... The confirmation bias simply prevents some people digging deeper to find reality or alternate perspectives. And when alternate perspectives are presented they bunker down.

Specifically with regards to the question of Putin and a replacement - no doubt the Oligarchs hold most of the power and can prop up a new despot/corrupt leader. The question is can anyone be as aggressive, divisive and such a threat to world peace as Putin. I'd say the answer is unlikely in the extreme.

I meant to also say that to others as well. Appreciate all the posting/aggregating that's going on in these threads by everyone.

The big difference is that their misinformation comes from the state run media. Imagine putting Alex Jones in charge of the official (and only) US media.

I think much like a lot of the reporting in recent years during conflicts - the western "news" is going to be overwhelmingly positive. Whether you call it propaganda or not - idk - but western news sources will have a bias to wanting to present Ukraine's resistance in the most positive light. The truth is - much like conjecture about Putin himself - we don't know. I think it's gone well - better than maybe most were expecting - we simply don't know why, to what extent, if there is an iron fist somewhere cloaked in these relatively weak initial skirmishes. We don't know if Putin has lost touch, lost his strategic cunning because he's had so much success in Georgia and Crimea before ... we don't know if he simply miscalculated the depth of reaction.

I think being skeptical of everything until this is truly actually over is a healthy position to take.

I agree. To answer oober’s question, I am confused and pretty shocked. I don’t know how much of the positive news is actually true. However, it seems to be pretty evident that things are not going nearly as well for Russia compared to what they were originally banking on.

I think my original assumption was expecting a hot knife through butter and then trying to figure out how we would stop them from being even more aggressive after they swept through Ukraine.

That has now transitioned into “WTAF is happening?” Now my speculation is that Russia May still take over Ukraine, but they won’t be able to hold it. I also wonder what the world’s reaction will be if/when the Russian brutality increases.

It makes almost zero sense how seemingly inept the reporting is painting the Russian forces to be.

Of course, the reporting is very one-sided. We're only seeing reports from the Ukrainian side, and every side in war will propagandize their feats. Afterall, nobody will rally to the fight if the reports are that they're getting their asses handed to them.
It's impossible to tell if video being circulated is legit, or perhaps stock footage taken from something decades ago. A blown up tank in 2D and low light looks the same no matter what.

Lastly, even if - or, especially if - the reporting we're getting is true, that's great, but it raises some BIIIIG questions. I mean, by the accounts we're seeing here, it makes it appear as if the Russian Army is simply crashing like waves on the rocks, and that makes so little sense that it is actually kinda scary.... and starts the mind wondering if this somehow isn't some insano-scale gaslighting.