I would imagine confirmation bias plays a part everywhere in the world in what people choose to believe and support. What the older generation being fed propaganda in Russia choose to believe is not a whole lot different than what large parts of the US wanted to believe with 'Make America Great Again' .... The confirmation bias simply prevents some people digging deeper to find reality or alternate perspectives. And when alternate perspectives are presented they bunker down.
The big difference is that their misinformation comes from the state run media. Imagine putting Alex Jones in charge of the official (and only) US media.
Well, we'd know how to get the best workout supplements and where the dimension portals are located.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
That said, how confident are we regarding the info we're getting about Russia's progress? I'm no military expert person, but I was expecting Russia to steamroll Ukraine regardless of level of resistance. So hearing about Russia's military getting their nose bloodied, while inspiring, has me highly skeptical.
Just asking where everyone else is regarding what we're hearing.
As has been mentioned by others, what we're seeing should certainly be taken with a grain of salt. Possibly the entire salt shaker. Some of what is being reported can not be denied. Russia hasn't mowed over Ukraine in a couple of days. Zelenskyy has stood strong no matter the odds. The Ukranian people are standing strong and are willing to fight in the face of Russian aggression.
Otherwise what's actually happening on the ground is hard to verify. But at some point you have to question how important that really is? If Russia is dominating what good would reporting that truth be to Ukraine? As of now the message is what is most important and making that a positive message no matter the reality is in the best interest of Ukraine. You can see it with each passing day. Direct military aid from the EU is nothing short of amazing to see. Sanctions and increasing actions from the rest of the world is growing stronger with each passing day.
The longer Ukraine holds out the less likely it is that Russia can sustain occupying Ukraine for the long haul. The longer Ukraine holds out the more support they are getting from the rest of the world.
I think propaganda coming from both sides has always been and will always be a part of not only politics, but of war. The thing I concentrate on most is what the motivation of the propaganda is and what it's trying to accomplish. In this case Russia controls every word its people hears and their message is that they are under a direct threat from Ukraine. Something we all know is false and is an excuse for an unprovoked war. In contrast Ukraine is and will use propaganda to promote their nation remains free and are free from a foreign occupier. Ukraine and its government knows this will most likely be a long haul situation and are waging their propaganda war with that in mind.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I would be interested in any source that you have that would provide a different take on the seperatist control. Every piece of information that I have found suggests that they are overwhelmingly ethnic Russians that are in support of being separate from Ukraine. I understand how a solution can appear 1-sided, but I don't view things from the perspective of what makes a certain person or country look weak or strong or victorious or defeated. I don't care about the egos of politicians or the power that they stand to lose or accumulate. I look at it from the perspective of normal people in an unnecessary conflict, harming each other for no real benefit. Sometimes, the best solution to a really bad marriage is divorce.
I don't believe that Russia really wants to takeover Ukraine. It would be too costly. In fact, some have even been speculating that the U.S. has actually trying to provoke them into a Ukraine occupation because we know it would financially wreck them and destabilize their government. Maybe they want to overthrow the Ukrainian government, but mostly I think they are simply trying to force Ukraine to the negotiating table in order to prevent any further NATO activities in the country and to secure the separatist regions. That's just been what my intuition is telling me.
I shared a video link earlier which is a bit of a deeper dive into Ukraine and it's history and relevance to the issues going on today. That seemed to indicate a heavy Russian influence in the separatists actions and certainly it does not appear to be organic.
Another article I read from 2014 - https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know - seems to indicate that there is "some" organic support for those breakaway regions, but the biggest influence is Russian. But then, I guess a bit like the war, relying on any reporting is going to present mostly a compromised or influenced perspective.
To explain one reason for my skepticism. . . . Looking at Northern Ireland and the IRA from the 70's and 80's - it was presented that Sthn Ireland had strong support to ouster the British from Northern Ireland and it was an unwanted/oppressively regime. The reality was the IRA and Sinn Fein at the time had extremely low support for their violence, most of Southern Ireland was more than happy to leave the situation as it was. But that's not the way it was presented. I remember the IRA had less than 15% support of the public in southern ireland - but they were driving and dictating events and 'politics'. When I see parts of Ukraine with heavy Russian support and backing - I am truly skeptical that the majority of the native Ukrainians in the region truly support the ideals being promoted by the separatists.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
In fact, some have even been speculating that the U.S. has actually trying to provoke them into a Ukraine occupation because we know it would financially wreck them and destabilize their government.
Did any of those "some" speak at the America First Political Action Conference or have strong ties to the communist party?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'll just throw this in here instead of the "Binge-Worthy" thread.
If you have questions about the resolve of Ukranians, this doc is well worth your while. (Netflix)
Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom
"I came here to die", means I've already accepted the worst case scenario... and it's worth the fight.
And this demonstration started because people were fed up with their presidents shenanigans that were keeping them out of the EU. In the end, they forced his resignation.
As police move from barricades to beatings, from rubber bullets to real; the demonstrators built their protection with walls of fire and took pickaxes to the street to arm themselves with the bricks... and nobody wavered. Old ladies walking down the street with pots on their heads.
These people will never give up until all are dead, each proud to die for the cause.
It makes almost zero sense how seemingly inept the reporting is painting the Russian forces to be.
I can think of 3 possible explanations, 1. either the Russian ground military was that ill prepared and inept. 2. Vlad really thought this would be enough and he was actually trying to minimize casualties and genuinely believed he would be "welcomed" 3. The big assault is coming.
Quote
Of course, the reporting is very one-sided. We're only seeing reports from the Ukrainian side, and every side in war will propagandize their feats. Afterall, nobody will rally to the fight if the reports are that they're getting their asses handed to them.
I disagree with this a bit. Many (especially within Ukraine) want to see the western allies (NATO) get more involved and take a stronger stand, even send troops, reporting that the Ukrainians are doing well on their own isn't going to make that happen. If you wanted the cavalry to saddle up and ride in to save them, wouldn't you report that they were getting crushed and humanitarian crises and abuses, etc?
Quote
It's impossible to tell if video being circulated is legit, or perhaps stock footage taken from something decades ago. A blown up tank in 2D and low light looks the same no matter what.
Lastly, even if - or, especially if - the reporting we're getting is true, that's great, but it raises some BIIIIG questions. I mean, by the accounts we're seeing here, it makes it appear as if the Russian Army is simply crashing like waves on the rocks, and that makes so little sense that it is actually kinda scary.... and starts the mind wondering if this somehow isn't some insano-scale gaslighting.
This kind of wag-the-dog type of conspiracy stuff is a very dangerous road to go down. I know that the media can shade things one way or the other, and has been caught using old stock photos in the past, but to think that western journalism is just flat out lying and making things up about the status of what's going on over there is just dangerous.
Russian central bank hikes rate to 20% in emergency move, tells firms to sell FX
Central bank raises key rate to 20% from 9.5% Moved aimed at addressing rouble, inflation Russia tells companies to sell FX Cenbank says stopped FX interventions due to sanctions
but to think that western journalism is just flat out lying and making things up about the status of what's going on over there is just dangerous.
Regardless of how one views it, it IS a very real possibility. Especially when so much reporting comes by way of social media posts, and in an age where seemingly real-life video can be faked, where video of a Russian fighter being shot down was actually footage from a video game, and "deep fake" videos are now a thing. The tech and cost-barrier to entry on this stuff is trivial today. Almost anyone can do it.
We *literally* live in an age where you cannot believe everything you see. Video can lie. "Trusted" western newsanchors and such have regularly told BIG lies. On air and in writing.
To think that western journalism has anything more concrete than blind, undeserved trust is just as dangerous.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Well if Putin does have an ace in the hole, he might want to use it.
cause right now he is headed toward the biggest L in human history...for absolutely no reason.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
but to think that western journalism is just flat out lying and making things up about the status of what's going on over there is just dangerous.
Regardless of how one views it, it IS a very real possibility. Especially when so much reporting comes by way of social media posts, and in an age where seemingly real-life video can be faked, where video of a Russian fighter being shot down was actually footage from a video game, and "deep fake" videos are now a thing. The tech and cost-barrier to entry on this stuff is trivial today. Almost anyone can do it.
We *literally* live in an age where you cannot believe everything you see. Video can lie. "Trusted" western newsanchors and such have regularly told BIG lies. On air and in writing.
To think that western journalism has anything more concrete than blind, undeserved trust is just as dangerous.
I'm not suggesting that we should accept every photo or every video as absolute truth because I do understand how easy it is for any 14 year old kid with a decent computer/phone to fake them. I also understand that a lot of what reporters do is report on what other reporters have said to be true so one person gets fooled and suddenly a dozen news outlets are reporting the same thing.
What I'm talking about is the overall direction of the conflict, whether entire towns have fallen under Russian control, etc. Things that can't be faked with a single photograph or a single 10 second video clip... I just think the whole of the global media is far less likely to get things like that totally wrong.
One thing that is feasible is something I saw on CNN with a military analyst. He seems to think Russia’s original strategy was to try to win everywhere and when you try to do that, you don’t win anywhere. They came in with a spread out force in all directions vs a targeted attack on the epicenter. He thinks they may pivot to the latter now that the former was a debacle.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
One thing that is feasible is something I saw on CNN with a military analyst. He seems to think Russia’s original strategy was to try to win everywhere and when you try to do that, you don’t win anywhere. They came in with a spread out force in all directions vs a targeted attack on the epicenter. He thinks they may pivot to the latter now that the former was a debacle.
I saw that interview, which is why I think the resistance is much greater than Putin anticipated. CNN has had a serious very good/qualified guests on to discuss this and other issues.
How worried is everybody about Russia cyber-attacking our banking infrastructure? Anybody taking any steps just in case, like getting out some cash to get through if it happens?
I will say CNN’s coverage, from verifying and dispelling certain events, to getting people on-site to review battle ground, to speaking with Poroschenko and so on has been rather impeccable. Even the anchors who tend to draw more controversy typically - hace set that aside and for the most part done a great job at triaging live coverage and expert opinions.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
It makes almost zero sense how seemingly inept the reporting is painting the Russian forces to be.
Of course, the reporting is very one-sided. We're only seeing reports from the Ukrainian side, and every side in war will propagandize their feats. Afterall, nobody will rally to the fight if the reports are that they're getting their asses handed to them. It's impossible to tell if video being circulated is legit, or perhaps stock footage taken from something decades ago. A blown up tank in 2D and low light looks the same no matter what.
Lastly, even if - or, especially if - the reporting we're getting is true, that's great, but it raises some BIIIIG questions. I mean, by the accounts we're seeing here, it makes it appear as if the Russian Army is simply crashing like waves on the rocks, and that makes so little sense that it is actually kinda scary.... and starts the mind wondering if this somehow isn't some insano-scale gaslighting.
It's almost like the Ukrainian victories are being used as propaganda, lol. I think they are handing Putin his ass. He just rumbled in thinking they would lay down. He was wrong.
Not that this can't escalate or that Russia can't win, but right now, Ukraine definitely has him on the ropes.
Cleveland would be a top 5. one nuke here wipes out 20% of the world's freshwater and 84% of North America's surface freshwater.
How? Cleveland is not the only city on the Great Lakes. There's plenty of coastline.
So, keep in mind we have Perry Nuclear Power Plant and Davis-Besse both about 50 miles from Vermilion. That would be a catastrophic loss of water supply to the USA.
Chicago would also be a high-priority area along with La Poudre Pass Lake.
I agree. To answer oober’s question, I am confused and pretty shocked. I don’t know how much of the positive news is actually true. However, it seems to be pretty evident that things are not going nearly as well for Russia compared to what they were originally banking on.
I think my original assumption was expecting a hot knife through butter and then trying to figure out how we would stop them from being even more aggressive after they swept through Ukraine.
That has now transitioned into “WTAF is happening?” Now my speculation is that Russia May still take over Ukraine, but they won’t be able to hold it. I also wonder what the world’s reaction will be if/when the Russian brutality increases.
With almost all democratic (free) people in the world backing Ukraine, Putin has created a massive alliance against himself and his country. Increasing brutality, which is already happening as they turn to residential area attacks, might trigger a worldwide intervention of some sort. I could see NATO and non-NATO allies saying enough is enough, since Zelensky seems to have won the hearts and minds of most of the world. I'd say the nuke threat is about all that is stopping them now. I'm sure some of these countries in Putin's shadow are ready to step up and fight too. An unhinged Putin, is too dangerous to leave in power and the whole world knows it. The nuke threats will only deter the world for so long. He has shown that he and his army are weak. Honestly, I think it's the end for him, and I'm just as worried about what he might do on the way out as I am about his nuke threats. I think that like Trump, he won't go easy.
For the past couple of years, I've been watching this guy's YouTube channel as he crosses Eastern Europe and visits some parts of the old USSR. Not all places he visits are in these areas, but I knew he would be in Ukraine. To me, it's interesting to see these two videos. I'd suggest even seeing more of his travels. Anyways....
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
It's almost like the Ukrainian victories are being used as propaganda, lol. I think they are handing Putin his ass. He just rumbled in thinking they would lay down. He was wrong.
Not that this can't escalate or that Russia can't win, but right now, Ukraine definitely has him on the ropes.
You might be right - but I think any assumptions of any kind would be a poor choice. Deal with what's in front of us - treat all information with some skepticism - don't rush to conclusions. Hopefully the free thinking world unites in the strongest possible way and the most peaceful solution can be found notwithstanding we are dealing with Putin.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Maybe things changed today, as I wasn't able to keep up, but I'm really surprised at the lack of coverage of civilian casualties. You'd think the western media would be all over every occurence. Is there just not that much to report?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Maybe things changed today, as I wasn't able to keep up, but I'm really surprised at the lack of coverage of civilian casualties. You'd think the western media would be all over every occurence. Is there just not that much to report?
Are there any DT posters who don't admire Zelenskyy at this point? If your country was being invaded, would you fight for and with a President like that? I'm not man crushing, I'm just putting the question out there.
Dude is becoming a legend... praying for his safety and the safety of all Urkaines.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I was thinking of my own perspective but i guess it cuts all ways.![[Linked Image from i.redd.it]](https://i.redd.it/ro8tfl5kkkk81.jpg)
![[Linked Image from pbs.twimg.com]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMsxvoEVkAII1BF.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
