That was good. I still hope there are enough of us at the end of the day who let rationality and objectivity control, despite any other differences we have.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Are there any DT posters who don't admire Zelenskyy at this point? If your country was being invaded, would you fight for and with a President like that? I'm not man crushing, I'm just putting the question out there.
Dude is becoming a legend... praying for his safety and the safety of all Urkaines.
It is weird to think that if Ukraine expels Russia and maintains their independence and goes on to prosper, future generations will celebrate Zelenskyy like we celebrate George Washington... and we are watching it in real time.
The big difference will be that this history won't rely on a ton of subjective hand me down lore.. there will be a million hours of video, twitter records, etc... really kind of cool
While we fight and bicker about our Presidential candidates Ivy League education, military experience (or lack of), law degrees, willingness to fight the big fight, ability to stand up to the bullies of the world, business success (or failure), seriousness of their plans and platforms, whether they have ever said anything the least bit offensive...
The legend of Zelenskyy is growing on the international stage and he is almost globally admired for his willingness to fight alongside his people and stand up to one of the largest armies in the world..
And he once stood on stage in front of a theater full of people and played "Hava Nagila" on a piano with his genitals. Maybe we are thinking about leadership all wrong.
Or, generally speaking, Americans fail to recognize and appreciate genuine humility. Humility and humbleness are qualities, not character flaws or signs of weakness.
While we fight and bicker about our Presidential candidates Ivy League education, military experience (or lack of), law degrees, willingness to fight the big fight, ability to stand up to the bullies of the world, business success (or failure), seriousness of their plans and platforms, whether they have ever said anything the least bit offensive...
The legend of Zelenskyy is growing on the international stage and he is almost globally admired for his willingness to fight alongside his people and stand up to one of the largest armies in the world..
And he once stood on stage in front of a theater full of people and played "Hava Nagila" on a piano with his genitals. Maybe we are thinking about leadership all wrong.
Putin's fears of a unified, stronger Europe are fast becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy Eli Stokols, Tracy Wilkinson Sun, February 27, 2022, 4:05 PM
Russian President Vladimir Putin's brazen and unprovoked assault on Ukraine is fast turning his fears of a more resolute Europe, and potentially expanded NATO alliance, into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
NATO has come together behind stiff economic sanctions against Moscow. Finland and Sweden, after decades of neutrality, have signaled a new interest in joining the alliance while more autocratic members of the defense pact have excoriated Moscow.
And in an effort to shore up Ukraine's defenses, the European Union for the first time will finance the purchase and delivery of weapons, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Sunday.
In short order, Europe's leading powers have shifted into a position of heightened defensiveness toward Russia.
"We have to realize that we are now faced with a new normal for our security," NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said Sunday in an interview on CNN, noting the beefed-up NATO troops' presence in its eastern countries and weapons deliveries to Ukraine. "This is just the beginning of the adaptation that we need to do as a response to a much more aggressive Russia."
On Sunday in Berlin, Germany's new Chancellor Olaf Scholz delivered a rousing speech to parliament declaring that the country would spend more than 2% of its GDP on defense — Putin having accomplished what former President Trump sought for four years, and President Obama before him. Scholz also announced a special 100-billion euro fund (about $111 billion) to upgrade the country's army, a fundamental shift by Europe's most powerful nation after a long stretch of limited military spending in the decade after the European debt crisis.
Describing Russia's war on Ukraine as "a turning point in the history of our continent," Scholz told lawmakers, "it is clear that we need to invest significantly more in the security of our country."
Constanze Stelzenmüller, a Germany expert at Washington's Brookings Institution, called the speech "Germany's Nixon to China moment," a reference to then President Nixon's pivot from anti-communist hawk to taking his historic trip to China.
Similarly, Scholz's speech was all the more significant coming from a Social Democrat, one known for fiscal austerity who came of age at the end of the Cold War, a time when many believed democracies were ascendant and would remain so.
"Many Germans mistook the fall of the Berlin Wall as a validation of their method, and they have hung on to that belief well beyond the point that it started being proven out of date otherwise by events," Stelzenmüller said. "This is the end of that illusion, and the beginning of a new era in German foreign policy, and that is really a historic moment."
Since taking office in December, Scholz, who served as finance minister to former Chancellor Angela Merkel, had seemed reluctant to take a firm stance toward Putin, given how reliant Germany's economy is on Russia. But war breaking out in Europe has in short order altered security calculations and stiffened its leaders' spines.
Scholz's speech came as the EU also announced it would bar Russian planes from EU airspace and expel Russian state-owned media outlets Russia Today and Sputnik from all 27 members of the European bloc.
The EU said its defense aid package could even include fighter jets and that member states are willing to provide them. “We're not talking about just ammunition,” EU's Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrell said. “We are providing more important arms to go to a war.”
"Just like President Putin has unified Ukraine against him and against Russia, President Putin has also unified the NATO alliance," former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor, who also served at NATO, told SiriusXM radio.
Part of what has helped toughen resolve among European leaders like Scholz, as well as France's Emmanuel Macron and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, was their realization of how blatantly Putin lied about his intentions in Ukraine. He claimed, to their faces until the last minute — and even now as his troops have mounted an amphibious assault and are sweeping into the north of Ukraine — he has no intention of invading the smaller neighbor.
"They were doing direct head of state diplomacy, and Putin lied to them," said Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group, a risk assessment firm in New York.
"Putin has behaved in a staggering, outrageous fashion to rip up what the Europeans thought were kind of inviolable norms," he said. The shift among European leaders "shows that this is not about Ukraine, it's a change in the global order that we have slipped into a new Cold War with Russia."
Scholz announced last week that Germany was halting certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, a priority for Putin, who'd sought greater control of Europe's energy resources. Saturday Berlin announced it would be sending weapons to support Ukraine, another shift in posture after Scholz's initial offering months ago of sending 5,000 helmets had been widely derided. At the same time, Europe, along with Canada and the U.S., announced an agreement to sanction Russia's central bank and to bar select Russian banks from the SWIFT international communications network used by banks around the world, a move that came about only after Germany overcame its reluctance.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine is at heart an attempt to revisit the end of the Cold War, to redress the westward drift of former Soviet republics and to regain additional territory that's been independent from Russia for 30 years. Although the conflict is just days old, the reality of Russian tanks and missiles in Ukraine has shocked Europe's leaders into action, as has Putin's sinister language stating that he is "de-Nazifying" Kyiv by attempting to oust its president, Volodymyr Zelensky, who is Jewish.
"In his mind, he is re-fighting World War II, which suggests that everything is possible," Stelzenmüller said. "I think that may have played a role in focusing policymakers' minds in Berlin. To hear a Russian leader talk about a peaceful sovereign country in that way was truly galvanizing."
Swiss President Ignazio Cassis said on Sunday that it was “very probable” that neutral Switzerland would follow the European Union on Monday in sanctioning Russia and freezing Russian assets in the Alpine country.
The leaders of Finland, which has an 830-mile land border with Russia, and Sweden indicated when the fighting began in Ukraine that they were newly inclined to consider applying for membership in NATO, the 30-nation security alliance that, under Article V of its charter, treats an attack on any member nation as an attack on all.
Moreover, their leaders have since brushed off the Russian foreign ministry's warning that their NATO membership would trigger "serious military-political consequences." Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto said Saturday that "we’ve heard this before." And Sweden's prime minister, Magdalena Andersson, said Friday that Sweden "itself, and independently, decides on our security policy line."
Along with nearly every other European nation, Sweden has also committed in recent days to sending weapons and defense materiel to Ukraine.
Even NATO member states that are hardly democratic nations, like Turkey and Hungary, have joined in the strong condemnation of Russia and efforts to fortify Ukraine's defense. On Sunday, Turkey's foreign minister officially recognized Russia's attacks on Ukraine as a "state of war" and said Ankara was implementing an international treaty allowing it to limit warships' passage through the strategic Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits.
President Biden, remarking on revived support for NATO in an interview Friday, marveled at how Putin was "producing the exact opposite effect that he intended."
Biden has worked hard to keep democratic powers together in their response to Putin. Aware that Europe is under graver danger from Russia given its geographic proximity, and its greater economic reliance on Moscow, he has waited for consensus before pushing specific sanctions measures and deferred to European leaders to announce the elements of the West's response.
That approach stands in stark contrast to his predecessor, who cozied up to Putin and bullied European leaders, even threatening to withdraw the U.S. from NATO altogether in 2018 when he felt member countries weren't taking seriously his demand that they contribute more to their defense. Trump went as far as to order home some 12,000 troops stationed in Germany, a move many national security officials saw as punitive. Biden scuttled the plan just weeks after taking office last year.
Although Putin's actions are strengthening unity across NATO and the European Union, these can still be precarious alliances with chances for a breakdown or new internal conflict. Daniel Serwer, a scholar at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies who specializes in conflict, said the longer term resolution will likely continue with a Europe riven by what he called a "plywood curtain" — not as strong as the Iron Curtain but with a clear pro-West and pro-Russia divide.
"Europe 'whole and free' will remain a Western mantra," he said. "It will not however be a serious proposition so long as Putin or someone of his ilk governs in Moscow."
This story originally appeared in Los Angeles Times.
gonna be interesting how this gets handled. this is the part where it gets tricky, because a drone strike is taking out that convoy with ease.
but the potential consequences for taking them out early cant be quantified.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
That's his best clip you have shared so far. In addition to the unknown reason why the Russia attack was less successful to this point than expected ... And he touched on the new norm of debating outright lies. The outright lies that led to Brexit. The corruption of British politicians taking payments from convicts. And Trump attacking American leadership while praising the enemy.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Just to add to the comment arch made about the convoy headed to Kyiv.
Huge Russian convoy nears Ukraine's capital as invasion enters sixth day
Satellite images showed a 40-mile-long Russian military convoy approaching Ukraine's capital of Kyiv on Tuesday. The plodding Russian advance on the ground came while Ukraine's second-largest city, Kharkiv, was hit by intense shelling as Vladimir Putin's invasion of the neighboring nation entered its sixth day. The U.N. human rights office said Tuesday that at least 136 civilians had been killed by Russia's assault, including 13 children.
Talks between Ukrainian and Russian representatives lasted several hours Monday and both sides agreed to meet again in the coming days. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a video address late Monday that he believed Russia's continued shelling was meant to extract concessions from his country, but it wouldn't work.
More and more countries and companies worldwide taking steps to punish Moscow for the invasion. They left Russia's currency, the ruble, plunging to a value of less than a penny.
Perhaps feeling the pressure of Russia being targeted by increasing international scorn and his troops' advance being slowed by fierce resistance from Ukrainian fighters, President Vladimir Putin put his nuclear forces on high alert on Sunday.
The first reports I heard about this convoy it was 40 to 50 miles away from Kyiv. Now it's almost to the city itself. Which begs to question, if Ukraine had the military ability to target and bomb this convoy, wouldn't they have done it far away from the city where civilian casualties would have been virtually non existent? The first images I saw of this convoy they were pretty much in the middle of nowhere.
I can't imagine that Ukraine would have allowed this convoy to continue its advance if it had the ability to take it out.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Putin has to determine whether or not bombing the crap out of the cities he wants to occupy is worth the financial cost.
As we’ve all said, from a straight up fight perspective, Russia clearly has an advantage. But this is urban warfare, not open field.
He’s getting more aggressive with the bombing because of the resistance within the cities. But the more aggressive he gets, the more pushback he gets from the global community because civilian casualties are mounting.
And we have to all remember that having all those bodies within a small space is a layup for the resisting forces. All Putin would be doing is placing his military into unnecessary choke points. Ukrainian forces have the city advantage, from the top of buildings, windows, small streets, etc.
It looks like Putin is thinking about throwing bodies at Ukrainian forces, trying to overwhelm them with a surge of forces. But Ukraine is getting resupplied by NATO and other Allie’s very quickly, so trying the quantity vs quality route is risky as hell, especially in urban warfare.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Also, ukraines best option is defensive combat within the cities. Getting into a open field battle with beefed up Russian convoys isn’t tactically or politically smart. Not only would a preemptive strike make the propaganda wing that Putin relies on stronger, but they risk also losing that fight and losing the city due to very limited resistance.
Unfortunately ukraine can’t be proactive like they would hope to be.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Is it feasible to ponder that the Ukrainian forces haven’t openly engaged the convoy yet because it would pose more of an open warfare to Russia’s advantage? The pause is allowing for more receipt of javelins? Perhaps they have a point in their minds where the convoy crosses and they engage? All just ponderances in my head. Of course the worst possible thing is that they’re just completely underprepared and unready.
It was interesting to hear Clapper on CNN yesterday. His eyes got kind of wide and he said something along the lines of “Boy if I saw vehicles that close together, Id be salivating at the chance to go after that column with a couple of A-10s.”
Obviously the Ukrainians don’t have that capability, but perhaps it somewhat speaks to Russia’s potential sloppiness.
Last edited by dawglover05; 03/01/2201:36 PM.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Yea Ukraine definitely has limited capabilities, and they have to really be careful with their strategies because Russia is right there across and inside the borders.
Russia had way too many points of invasion. Maybe 3 max and they would’ve made better gains, but the forces were already spread thin. So Putin has increased forces, but the surprise/ambush style of fighting is completely gone. If you take a look at where the forces are on the map that CNN has, right now it looks like Ukraine has a top 5 offensive line in the nfl. It’s a nice pocket right now, so there’s no need to to a risk breaking it to go on the offensive.
Especially since the longer they hold out, the more advance the equipment they’re receiving gets. Right now Ukraine has a resource advantage if they maintain the defensive posture.
Any sort of major offensive counter would have to be done with NATO, meaning that the civilian casualties/refugee situation crossed the threshold for real intervention.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
And you expounded on the point I was attempting to make. Drone strikes, bombings or missile strikes against the convoy. If they lack the capability to do this I think the fault clearly rests on the shoulders of NATO. As we saw posted NATO countries are sending in fighter jets but is it a matter of "too little too late"? With all of the funding that has been sent Ukraine's way, shouldn't they have been sold or supplied with weaponry to deal with something like this?
Open warfare as in troop and tank battles in such a situation would be a fools move by Ukraine much as Swish described.
And Swish, as far as the propaganda battle goes, the only minds left to have any questions are those being fed Russian state media information and those lines have already been drawn. Currently Putin is using the "Ukraine is a Nazi regime" not only in his own country, but even in the U.N. A nation ran by a Jewish leader with open and fair elections who chose it's president. When the vast majority of the globe has your back, you've already won over anyone who can be won over. At that point you must use everything at your disposal to defend your country.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Kadyrovites, is a paramilitary organization in Chechnya, Russia that serves as the protection of the Head of the Chechen Republic. The term Kadyrovtsy is commonly used in Chechnya to refer to any armed Chechen men under the control of Head of the Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
However NATO has determined its best to just play defense right now. Putin is the one escalating the situation, so it’s best to let him. I guess they’ve determined that if Ukraine holds out long enough, Putin will become more and more isolated.
It’s risky, and I would’ve definitely sent the drones in and ended it, but Putin is becoming desperate and more aggressive so we shall see.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
It seems plausible that social media is making Ukraine stronger than they are. Which, ironically, could get thousands of people killed. Russia seems committed to their cause.
Bro, I think the only reason any of these governments has stepped up since this began is the way regular people around the world have reacted. This Zelensky infatuation, has shaken governments and NATO, including ours. The backlash for not doing more for Ukraine was imminent, and they all knew it. But it's not enough to save Ukraine from Putin. 130 countries banding together against Putin has not changed his mind. He needs to go BEFORE he gets this foothold in Europe.
It seems plausible that social media is making Ukraine stronger than they are. Which, ironically, could get thousands of people killed. Russia seems committed to their cause.
I don't think that social media or news coverage has anything to do with what's happening on the ground in Ukraine. Putin's actions or lack there of will have nothing to do with social media.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It seems plausible that social media is making Ukraine stronger than they are. Which, ironically, could get thousands of people killed. Russia seems committed to their cause.
I don't think that social media or news coverage has anything to do with what's happening on the ground in Ukraine. Putin's actions or lack there of will have nothing to do with social media.
SB is right in my opinion, that social media is a major part of Ukraine getting additional aid and Zelensky becoming famous overnight. But Russia is going to do whatever they do regardless of social media.
