DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns franchise tag David Njoku

Doesn't that depend on rolled over cap space spending? Where do we stand with that? And I would think Hooper is gone, too. Bryant and Carlson are both serviceable. Why do we need 6 TEs on the roster? I could see 4, maybe 5. The other two, not named Hooper,
are practice squad players.

On the long term deal, another thing might be that he simply he wants too much, and we're going to kick the can in hopes of drafting his replacement? Thinking they don't want to tie big money up long term at this position makes a lot of sense, IMO. Drafting TEs annually keeps the price much lower at the position. Combine that with KS TE love, having 6 on the roster at once, the need to either pay Mayfield or wheel and deal for a QB, and it really makes sense. I'm actually thinking they want to reload as many as they can this year to make a run, so Hooper might stay. And if they don't succeed, Njoku and more big names looking for deals will be gone. We have a one-year window, this year, then we either eat big salaries and play Moneyball with the other positions, or draft replacements. The Haslams think they have their coach. AB and KS might want to make wholesale changes if this team can't get to the post season in 22.

Reloading for a run makes more sense for the upcoming Mayfield decisions than rolling with rookie (cheaper) WRs and TEs this year.

I could be totally wrong too! It's just a hunch.

DPJ and Schwartz to start. I think they add another speed receiver in this draft. Speed is needed to provide space for the short pass and run games.

I look at KC, NE, and San Fransico having a clutch receiver and TE. They are mixed with complementary pieces.

I still believe Landry is the focal receiver until they find his replacement. If not Landry, who are they getting for less until said receiver develops?

Njoku? He should be Mr. Dependable. He must be even better than last year. As for his contract, I guess we shall see. I like David, but I'm not seeing the Kittle or Kelce type. I don't mean that level. I mean being as dependable. David disappears in games.

I believe Berry and Stefanski are building a ball-control-style offense that plays complementary football to the defense and special teams. I think OBJ leaving has set the plan back. The receiver room was something that was to evolve over time.

I am completely missing something.

I don't believe Njoku is signed to a long-term deal. I think they may pay him and Landry until they develop players.

Njoku is not signed to a long term deal. He was just offered a long term deal.

Landry is going to be cut.

WR Tiers - #1, #2, #3 and so on. D. Adams is a #1 WR. He's earned that position ranking because of his performance on the field. If he becomes a FA - his asking price would and should be at the top or very close to the top of the WR market because his play has earned that level. A Russell Cage is a 2nd or 3rd tier receiver. He might want to be a top tier but his performance to date has him a #2 or #3 receiver. Just because the Browns sign a guy like Cage to be their #1 WR doesn't automatically make Cage a top tier WR. The Browns surely wouldn't be paying Cage the same money an Adams would demand just because he's the Browns designated #1 WR. Njoku has not earned the consideration of getting top tier money at the TE position.

IMHO, this franchise tag is going to scare off WR free agent candidates. It's sending a signal that Stefanski is intending to run multiple 2-3 TE sets again in 2022 which is going to strongly effect the WR usage within the scheme. I hope I'm wrong and the new league year is just starting but very cautious about what I see happening in the early going.

Not surprised by this one bit. First, they don't have any solid receivers under contract assuming they cut Landry as of today. Second, whether you cut him on June 1 or in next year's offseason, you are still eating $7.5MM in 2023. So, why not just keep him and try to get some performance out of him? And also, in a post June cut, yes you save $9.5MM in 2022 (and still eating $7.5MM next year), but by June, I'm assuming you've spent the majority of your cap money in the FA and draft. I guess there is always the possibility of signing a vet cut in training camp or trading for one just before the season but do you really need that lump sum then?

The contract sucks for a player who has wildly underperformed so far. I think a restructure is still on the table.

Jason_OTC
@Jason_OTC
·
9h
If the #browns keep Hooper and Njoku on their contracts as is they will have $24.181 million in cap charges for their two tight ends. The two combined for 74 receptions for 820 yards in 2021.

That's $327,000 per reception and $29,489 per receiving yard going into 2022. To put that in perspective - Kelce's 2022 cap charge is 8.855M for 92 receptions and 1125 yards in 2021. That works out to $96,000 per reception and $7,871 per receiving yard going into 2022. The Browns are currently slated to pay 3.4 times more for every reception and 3.75 times more for every receiving yard by Hooper and Njoku than Kelce is scheduled to be paid in 2022.

It's hard to imagine the Browns being able to put a competitive product on the field when you're paying 3 to 4 times the productive rate for a single position on the team. Using Kelce as a guideline, Hooper and Njoku would have to combine to have 313 receptions for 4,219 receiving yards to break even for dollars spent for production received out of the position as it currently stands. Those are unattainable numbers combined with an unrealistic cost.

The numbers are what they are - the Browns currently are slated to grossly overpay for the TE position in 2022. Assuming Landry gets released, the Browns have no #1 WR or #2 WR, no starting DT's, only 1 starting DE, a weakness at LB and poor OL depth that needs to be addressed. It makes you wonder if this over investment into the TE position is in the best interest of the Browns going forward. Time will tell..................

Basing anything off our offense in 2021 would be pointless.

Injured QB playing like the 32nd best QB in the NFL.
Injuries to RB's.
Injuries all along the OL.
Injuries to WR's.
Offensive production that was nothing like 2020.
Based on 2021 Baker is grossly overpaid at $18M per.

You got to look at the player, ask if you believe in him, what direction is he trending, what do you believe he's worth to the team or the cost to replace him. Clearly the Browns FO believe in Njoku and it has ZERO to do with 2021 stats.

I would hope that any worries about who we do/don't currently have on the roster to catch passes is mitigated by this specific FA and draft (good for WRs). I, for one, would love for Hooper to be cut so those reps can go to others, but maybe the FO decided the $$ they get back just aren't enough. He's more valuable to us taking up a roster spot than to spend the money in cutting him just to spend a little more money to go and get another TE (even if it's a mid-rounder draft pick).

I'm not a huge fan of Hooper's contract, but this looks like cherry picked facts to support a conclusion that the guy had already made. Kelce signed a backloaded contract and plays as basically a primary target/wide receiver in a pass happy offense. If we compared Hooper's stats and contract to those of Jonnu Smith, we'd be getting a "bargain." Kelce might be the best "bargain" as far as "productive rate" in the sport currently.

Did we "overpay" Hooper? Absolutely. But we were a laughingstock with no proven TEs bringing in a coach with a scheme that uses lots of TEs. To get a guy in his prime coming off repeat pro bowls to come to the Browns in the state we were, we had to pay him. Given the circumstances, Berry did what he had to do.

"Grossly overpay" is just standard Twitter era attention seeking hyperbole.

We're in fine shape to have a perfectly competitive roster. "Can we get/stay healthy?" is the bigger question. Can we finally start developing draft picks (or just make better picks in the first place) so we don't need to bring in high price free agents to be competitive?

"Time will tell.........."

You can't ignore 2021 for Njoku because that's the year he supposedly shined and now should be looked at as an ascending player. If you're going to ignore 2021 (I agree by the way), then you're saying that Njoku earned the franchise tag for producing 19 receptions in 2020 when the Browns were a playoff team. At his production level over the first 4-years (eliminating 2021 because it is pointless as you say), the Browns just franchised a guy for 10.9M that contributed only 19 receptions during their 2020 playoff year and has a grand total of 112 receptions over first 4-years for 1,279 yards and 11 TD's if you eliminate 2021.

Besides those facts, Njoku has a serious issue with drops. His percentage by year is 2017 8.6%, 2018 12.5% (league high number of drops for TE's), 2019 28.6% (league high drop pct for TE's), 2020 6.9% and the pointless year of 2021 5.7% (3 drops on 57 targets - 8th highest pct for TE's in 2021).

The little-used tight end will now get around $10.9 million in 2022 with Cleveland applying its franchise tag to keep him on the roster. Njoku in 2021 ran a route on just half of the Browns' passing plays and was targeted on a meager 19 percent of his routes. 5.7% of those targets were dropped by Njoku further hurting his value to the team. In his five years with the Browns, Njoku, 25, has only two games in which he's seen more than seven targets. The Browns, who use two tight end sets as much as any team, will have more than $22 million tied up in Hooper and Njoku this season as it stands.

Plus, there's the aspect where the laws of Supply & Demand come into play every free agency period. He was the best TE available, by far, that offseason.
Eric Ebron got $12 mil per year in that same offseason. Hunter Henry was franchised.

The consensus is that we overpaid, but the reality is we paid what was essentially a very fair market value for the best available at a position of need at the time.

I am not saying he earned the tag in 2019 - no.

I am saying the Browns organization looked at the player Njoku has become - what they think he will continue to develop into and the cost to replace him with something as good ... and made a business decision. That decision has nothing to do with his stats in 2021 either.

It's not hard to see the argument that Njoku's second contract should be among the elite, but the FO better have an ironclad reason (if for nobody else but themselves) as to why his skills haven't translated to better numbers over the past 2 years. We love to complain about Hooper (I do), but at the end of the day, Hooper played more snaps and caught more balls than Njoku. There should be an explanation for that.

My point exactly, if you're going to bitch and moan about the level of play from Hooper and the pay that goes with that then you should be beside yourself that the Browns just used the franchise tag on a player that played less snaps, caught fewer balls, and has a history of poor performance and drops to such a deal for less than 2/3 the production Hooper has provided the last 2 years. Hooper 84/780/7 - Njoku 55/688/6

Hooper had 53 yards in his most productive game last season. Njoku had almost triple that in his.

It's a big play league, and that's not Hooper's game. Fortunately for him, he can help spring others while also providing a release valve.

There are different styles of TEs. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

I think what it means is that our passing game was pretty subpar much of last year. Baker was hurt, our TEs as a group didn't produce anywhere close to what was expected when we thought we had 3 good ones and it would be a real strength and they are buying themselves a year to figure out what the long term plan is between Njoku, Hooper, and Bryant...

I'm not sure which you're complaining about the most. That we actually signed Njoku or the fact you think we should cut Hooper by paying him not to be here?

chief needs targets. i get that we spread the ball, but Stefanski still has to balance that with getting our most talented players the football early.

Hard to have big plays when you catch and fall down in the same motion every single time.

He has mastered that...

Cutting Hooper with his dead cap would absolutely be foolish. Paying Njoku on an extension or the franchise tag is equally as foolish since he's been out performed by Hooper no matter how bad people think Hooper has played. If the Browns ran a 13 scheme Hooper numbers would be more in line with what they paid him for but running 22 or 31 sets reduces the amount of targets so because of that - Hooper's production and contract are bad. Signing Njoku or using the franchise tag is even a bigger mistake because the plays are not going to be there to warrant the price. The Browns just compounded the problem by now having 2 TE's grossly over payed. A TE making 30 something receptions per year should not be making 10.9M to 13M per year. A player that has had only 2 games in 5-years where he caught 7 or more passes in a game shouldn't be your franchised tagged player either.

This is the big mystery.

Njoku went 7-7 for 149 and a TD against the Chargers last year.

It took the next 7+ games to equal that yardage.

From there he finished the year with 13 targets in 4 games.


We drafted him for his upside and athletic ability and have basically done everything possible to stifle it. In the meantime he's become a much better blocker and has gone from "hit the JUGS" to sure-handed.

Figure it out this year... or hire JAG for 3.5M per year and save yourself a boatload of money.

No. NFL contracts are only based on past performance. There is never any projection involved.

Unless you hire Master P as your agent.

Those are great questions.

That is the whole point of the conversation. Hooper was paid based on his past performance: 2 years in a row selected to the Pro Bowl, over 70 receptions each year and averaged over 700 yards receiving per year. He was a highly sought after TE and his contract was based on the need of the highest bidder. Naturally, the Browns talked with him about their plans but the expectation most certainly was that Hooper would bring the same type of production to the Browns. IMHO, I most certainly doubt the Browns ever talked about cutting his targets by over 30% or that the passing offense as a whole would be reduced across the board. Just a note: it's been stated that the Browns were forced to get Hooper and sign him to that large deal because the Browns were a laughingstock with no proven TEs bringing in a coach with a scheme that uses lots of TEs. To get a guy in his prime coming off repeat pro bowls to come to the Browns in the state we were, we had to pay him. Given the circumstances, Berry did what he had to do. That may be true but Njoku was the starting TE at that time and they deemed he needed replaced.

Fast forward 2-years and now the Browns are paying franchise tag money to a player (Njoku) that just two years earlier signed Hooper to replace. Njoku's past performance for his deal has risen to the level of 55 receptions over the last 2-years and 688 yards receiving. Now that 2-year total doesn't even add up to one of the years that Hooper brought to the table when the Browns went after him yet the Browns are paying top TE dollar for Njoku's services. IMHO, it's a total misconception to think that after 5-years of below par production that suddenly Njoku is going to become a top 5 TE. Let's not forget, in the 2-years that Hooper has been on the team, he has outperformed Njoku in every facet of the game at TE and has provided less production each year than Hooper.

The bottom line is that unless Stefanski has plans to change his scheme, he intends to run a 2-3 TE offense that will feature two TE's making over 10.9M each for 50% at best production. That 10.9M the Browns used to tag Njoku could have been used for a starting DT of which the Browns currently have none!

I know this might be shocking to you but we still have cap space (and will have more in a few days) and will be able to sign players.

Please grow up and add something to the conversation. Having x amount of cash to sign players was not the point of the comment. Using that money in a smart way was what was implied. IMHO, spending 10.9M on a player that has never been close to what a #1 TE should be is wasteful. That money could have been used to address other areas. 10.9M for a part-time player when you are already locked into paying that type of money for the other PT player whether he's on the team or not seems foolish to this fan. And since contracts or tags are based on what you have produced on the field and the hope that those numbers will be equal to or better with a new deal - paying 10.9M for an average of 30 receptions over the last 5-years is grossly over-paying a player for what he is bringing to the table from his past performance. IMHO, it's a very very bad deal and is postponing what eventually will happen - a divorce well past due.

It's perspective. As long as we have the cash to do what we need/want to do, then this whole logjam at TE is just a bump in the road.

Let's see what he does in a season where the team's plans for the offense don't include OBJ (and might not include Landry.) Maybe they plan on giving him more opportunities which will merit his pay check.

We're not exactly bursting with pass catching weapons at the moment. It doesn't make sense to let a guy in his prime (he's only 25) go when he's shown he is capable of making explosive plays (See last years Chargers game.)

They like TEs. If they didn't bring him back, who were they going to replace him with?

All your talk of his lack of receptions doesn't account for his value as a blocker or the way defenses approach defending him which can open things up for other players.

Signing players for what they've done isn't the purpose of NFL contracts. You're trying to maximize value with what you think they can and will do going forward, while also maintaining a roster that can run what you want to run. They want to run multiple TE sets. They feel they are unlikely to get one better than Njoku at that price point. The cap just went up a healthy chunk, ~$11M could end up being a bargain. Kittle got $15M/yr while the cap was depressed due to COVID. The next round of contracts are liable to go higher.

I agree. You can't expect the same production out of a TE if you are spreading the chances 3 ways.
If people are expecting 70-80 receptions with yardage totals over 700 yards as it stands today, they better think again.

On other teams you have 1 TE catching 90% of the chances with 1 other TE who might catch 15 passes all season.

I'm really starting to think that is a much more sustainable model, salary cap and scheme-wise.

Then you don't pay the guy like he's going to get 70-80 receptions for 30-40 tops. You don't pay a player top wage for a 1-game bust out that then takes the next 7 games to equal that total of 1. Or a paying top tier pay for a player that only gets targeted 13 times in the last 4 games. If the intention is still to run 2 to 3 TE sets 50% of the plays as in 2021, then it's absolutely nuts to be paying two TE's top tier money for 1/3 or less of the targets to be split between them. Hooper was brought in to replace a totally ineffective Njoku in the first place. I can say with total confidence that Hooper was never told nor did he even dream that coming to Cleveland after 2 consecutive Pro Bowl nods that his targets would be cut by more than 30% coming to Cleveland. Fast forward two years and Hooper is getting more plays, more receptions, and still out performing Njoku even with the massive reduced work load yet the Browns intend to sign Njoku to a 10.9M top tier TE franchise tag. A tag for a player that hasn't come close in any of the last 3 years of putting anything close to what Hooper brought to the table when the Browns went out and got him. People can continue to live in ferry land hoping Njoku might get more than the 2 games in 5 years where he caught 7 or more passes but his well documented history shows that that hope is a wish and a dream. It's a bad deal and they are grossly over paying Njoku for what he's done and what he will bring to the table in the future.

Is one of the guardrails something like:

Don't overpay for potential?

Maybe not...but I'm thinking so.

I think you're thinking of "don't pay for depth." Potential doesn't show up on the sheet that has gone around.

Hopefully this means Njoku gets starter reps.