DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DeShaun Watson II

I'm not believing the "women because they're women". I'm believing that at least some of them are telling the truth because there are 22 of them. The first accuser was Ashley Solis which is a very successful and reputable massage therapist that from everything I've seen gives me no cause to believe she would make this up.

There is not evidence-less narrative. We have the sworn testimony of 22 individuals.

You do take things "on belief" - because you continue to most definitely paint a narrative where 22 individuals are all lying. You ignore the very damning text from his regular masseuse. You choose to BELIEVE Watson.

I am not believing the women because f their sex - neither are most people. Most people are believing the women because of the overwhelming probability that 22 women didn't all lie. That the texts that say "I warned him he's getting a reputation and needs to stop" implies he was doing exactly what the women allege.

Looking for truth / angles / motive / alternate theories is commendable. Not taking things at face value is a good philosophy in any walk of life. Being faced with compelling evidence - albeit circumstantial or based on individual testimony, hell just having seen 40 odd different massage therapists is enough for a sane person to stop and go "hmmmmm" without the testimony. Does it mean he is guilty? No ... does it mean we might well pay attention to the MANY women telling us what happened? Probably.


And disregarding all this based on nothing more than ... well based on nothing ... is not commendable or justifiable. Thinking that if someone didn't seek counselling after an incident like this then the incident didn't happen is nuts on so many levels.

Just in case anyone doesn't know what the actual allegations are - this is a pretty decent account.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/11/deshaun-watson-what-we-know-one-year-after-first-lawsuit

But, have you received and reviewed all the facts in the case?

Here's your problem. What you seem to be advocating is that the Browns shouldn't consider this. That it should be ignored and that we should just take it on faith everything will be fine. That would be stupid. What you seem to be saying is we should weigh the word of Watson over a very reputable woman and other reputable women and make a business decision based on ignoring all of this.

I hope nothing like this ever happens to someone close to you. because then you would have to explain how you won't believe them until they get a conviction it in a court of law. Because until they do, you won't possibly believe them, right?

j/c...

Discussion begins at the 1hr 12min mark on the podcast.

Cliff notes?

He probably will to some degree. There are probably some jump on the bandwagon claims. Once money is possible, lot's of things can be said or stretched.

Why not listen if you care?

I'm in the middle - but the FIRST THING is that there is corroborating text about seeking advice for a therapist after she was abused by a pro athlete immediately after the incident.

Other points noted:

And other massage therapists who alleged the same thing - but have not filed suit.

Text from Deshaun that apologies for making one of them feel uncomfortable.

Not uncommon for victims of sexual assault to maintain some sort of relationships.

Bunch of athletes said 22 different massage therapists is unheard of. Seems the actual number is over 50. Most have at most 'a handful'.

Not unusual to not have corroborating evidence in sexual assault cases. In this case there is some - and the testimony is considered evidence.

Police described the 10 women interviewed in criminal case as credible and reliable.

NFL interviews seemed like victim blaming - focused on their behavior not Watson's. This was different than the Police interviews.

Looking at the allegations over timeline - you can see a pattern of escalation in behavior.

Please please please pick cleveland!!

Some chicks from Diamond's Men Club were seen deboarding the plane with oil up to their elbows...

He's in!

Pretty detailed. He's definitely a scumbag. His behavior escalated as time went on. Criminal cases like this hard to indict. Was going to plead the 5th at civil case deposition, but changed his mind with his attorney after criminal charges dropped. Further details are expected to come out in this deposition. Teams will want to see or will have requested transcripts.

Worth the time to listen.

Cool. As long as we follow that up with armed security around any massage parlors in Berea to keep him from going in, we might be ok!

Yeah, this doesn't help him at all.

A Couple More Things to Remember (on top of Watson being a jerk):

1.) He could always be charged tomorrow. A new piece of evidence could come up -- a new district attorney could be elected. The prosecutors office is not bound by the grand jury, and can always choose to indict anyway.

2.) A guy who does this at least 22 times isn't very likely to stop tomorrow just because he got off the hook....

IF he picks Cleveland, you have two years to win a Super Bowl before he is gone. And I will laugh my ass off if Baker kicks our asses consistently.

Two years, at most. He could well decide to sit out, demand a release, etc... and, after what has already happened, does anyone REALLY think any of that is far-fetched?

If we were only so lucky. This is going to drag out.

No, I don't think it's far fetched.

Add in he will probably be suspended for.........2, 4, 6, 8 games?

Just, at this point in time, ineptitude on behalf of the Browns, imo.

As the possibility of him coming here becomes somewhat likely, the more I come to the realization that I don't actually want him here.

I watch sports for a break from the world's awfulness. I don't want to think about Watson's issues every time the Browns' offense is on the field.

Maybe I've been subconsciously looking for an excuse to stop watching televised sports altogether.

I mentioned this before somewhat in jest - but but based on historical treatment by the NFL, if Watson goes anywhere else I think he gets 6 game ban. When he signs here - he's going to get 10 weeks minimum.

I guess we are trying to imitate Pittsburg and Baltimore now. Fill the team up with criminals and get a SB ring because apparently team members young kids can look up to don't matter anymore ... Is winning the only thing that matters the message we want to send to our Youth? I hope not.

Definitely worth the listen, but I'll take one for the team...



Interview is with someone covering story since beginning.

Lawsuits piled up in a hurry, she tried to get to the bottom of "what's actually going on".

People were perplexed by the timing coinciding with the backdrop of Watson wanting out of Houston.
"Why now?"...

She says the story had actually been percolating for some time.

2 dozen accounts (24 total criminal and civil lawsuits) exposing himself, touching therapists hands with genitals, a few accounts alledging sexual assault.

Thinks they didn't go to police because many brushed it off and quit treating him. Word in the industry is these things are very hard to prove in a court of law with no video evidence.

She had spoken to many therapists in Houston area before getting in touch with "Mary". Mary had plenty of evidence including text messages and the gory details from her own experience.

Mary told the therapist who refereed him to her about her experience. Veteran therapist told her "all of the creepy stuff he does every time, there is only one therapist who hasn't complained".

A number of therapists admitted they submitted to consensual sex.

The amount of therapists he worked with was very uncommon (over fifty). He found many on instagram.


Evidence to Grand Jury was six hours behind closed doors. Course of action to indict was declined in all nine criminal cases. They were shown video of police interviews, only one person was called before jury to provide direct testimony. Warrants from police investigators over the course of a year described all ten complaints as credible and reliable.

Criminal complaints ranged from (3) alleged sexual assault / indecent exposure / sexual misconduct


Interviews with women said the NFL's questioning during their investigation made them uncomfortable. "Victim blaming" focusing on their behaviors rather than his... "what were you wearing".

NFL had plenty of corroborating evidence before deciding not to place Watson on exempt list.

Watson hasn't given any explanation to this point and lawyers will only say that any sex acts that occurred were consensual. Hopefully we'll get more details during civil lawsuits.


When asked "One most egregious incident?"

Accounts of women singularly may not seem that bad, but accounts escalated over time with Watson knowing full well he was making therapists uncomfortable. Taking any singular account is flawed and ignores a pattern of behavior that had become more reckless over time. Whether criminal charges stick should not be an indication or excuse for trauma caused by his actions, and should be carefully scrutinized by the team that hopes to sign him; if not the criminal justice system.

"A number of therapists admitted they submitted to consensual sex."

Who does that? What kind of therapists are they?

He could be our new QB!!!!!!!

YIPEEEEEE!!!!

There have been reports all along that some of them solicit on Instagram with subtle phrases like "BTW, I'm not a licensed therapist" *wink wink*

Do they mean that a number of the therapists that are accusing DW admitted they submitted to consensual sex?

I agree that is possible but I would think unlikely because whatever team he ends up with he basically picked. To do any of that would be admitting you made a mistake and I don't get the impression that he is the kind of guy to admit mistakes.

The kind of therapist you find on IG. IMO, dude's clearly a predator (in that he seeks out women that may or may not (wink wink) be actual therapists).

Sounds like Denzel ward may be a part of the trade for Watson and hunt and 2-3 picks abs baker traded elsewhere.

No one credible has revealed our trade package. The Saints reportedly offered three first round picks and Omar Ruiz.

well, it only means that he picked from the list of teams willing to give up the capital to make a trade. He may like the idea of trying to get to free agency sooner, while he's in his prime. Like any free agent going anywhere, he may decide that this place isn't what it was represented to him as being, etc.. lots of ways to twist it.

Creep. Not a predator. From that info, he contacted those women who let it known they offering a lot more than massages. And the fact that it’s consensual means you can’t call him a predator.

Again, a certified creep? Absolutely. being a creep isn’t illegal. Being a predator most certainly is.

Anyways, seems like teams are waiting to see where Watson lands, which means that adding Watson to the locker room is gonna hype the players up, not divide. Hopefully we can get Will fuller here.

Even if he serves a 4-6 game suspension, we have more than enough talent to win some games until he returns. On top of that, he will be in OTAs, training camp, etc.

And we don’t even know if he’ll actually get suspended yet.

She didn't speak specifically to the overlap and had interviewed many over the course of a year that didn't file charges. I'm sure it can be assumed that a small number (who filed charges) did admit to consent, or were later found to have.

Also of note: "Mary" did not file charges adding (imo) even more credence to her testimony and direct evidence.

What I got from the interview was that only some of the women let it know they were offering more. Many were just doing massages. There was also an account of a person who turned him down and was upset but he accidently messaged her again not realizing he had already tried her. It did come off as quite predatory.

The more info I assimilate from articles and you fine folks, the more I don't want this Creep.

Uhhh, you're speaking to a small number of the 50+ therapists. Seems like a pretty whack way of determining the validity of the experiences of those who did not consent.