DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker 2

AND NOBODY SAID THEY WANTED AN ADULT AT HIS POSITION. Bakers situation was way different. This organization done him dirty and MKCs tweet is hot garbage. She barely wrote two paragraphs that said jack crap.

Well it's not 22-1 and conclusive. We don't know who is telling the truth. That's the essence of the discussion.

To me, and logically speaking, the more people independently saying the same or similar (or escalating) testimony then the more serious you have to take the possibility something is true.

To dismiss everything 22 women say because they provide licensed (or otherwise) massage services is just stooopid in the extreme. It's ignorant. Are there probably some freeloaders jumping on the train? Yep. Does that mean that we can dismiss everyone else? No.

I mentioned elsewhere, the Police claimed the victims were credible... Does anyone think that any of the women known or inveatigated and found to have provided rub n tugs would have been called credible?? I know I don't

it worked for every politician.

Umm...? Use the reply button please.

I certainly think many people have decided that winning at any cost has become more important than their own morals. I think some have decided to rationalize their morals in order to make excuses why this is okay.

And yes, when they try to label all of these women as prostitutes and money grubbers, at that point I do think they're morally deficient.

I think many people refuse to try and put themselves in the shoes of the victims because if they did, they would certainly not be posting some of the things they have.

It's not a one size fits all but it's certainly a size many are quick do their best to fit into.

Now you resort to being the grammar police as a way of changing the topic, and attacking? Classic.

I'll let the adults figure out what is wrong with your reply to me - you know, this reply. ^^ Your questioning my education, and understanding of the written English language and punctuation is a sad reflection on you.

So what can we realistically expect to get for Baker?? A 4th?

I see you still don't comprehend that there is a big difference between a question mark and a period at the end of a sentence. That's either a question of how you were taught, what you were taught or a comprehension issue. I'm not saying which one. Try taking a poll and see the results of people who do and do not understand the difference between a question and a statement. Maybe that's what it would take for you to find out just how critical punctuation is to discern the difference. Maybe even that wouldn't do it. I don't know.

As long as you are sticking with the story that asking you a question is an insinuation rather than a question I think you're swinging at thin air again.

Just saw a report that said Browns are letting others know it'll take a second day pick for baker... not sure how true that is or if we'll get it... we'll see...

I agree with most of what you are saying, but your point about them all independently saying similar things would carry more weight if they didn't all have the same questionable lawyer.

I find the article that you linked quoting the woman that didn't join the lawsuit as more credible. Definitely disturbing. I just have a sense that Buzbee could have (not that he did) "trumped up the charges" to have a media sensationalized story as he tries to run for office. If there were 22 women telling the DeShaun acted inappropriate and disgusting during a massage story, I'd find that more consistent with the available evidence. If it was as extreme as some are making it out, I'd expect some hard evidence.

Yes, escalating behavior is a thing. But lawyers know that, too, and higher charges result in higher payouts, make better headlines, and inflame more emotions. Without more facts, it's hard/impossible to know how bad it got.

Lumping extreme fabricated stories with "less severe" (/misdemeanor) believable (still deserving of punishment) true stories seems like a possibility.

While I'd prefer to have no reason to wonder about my team's QB's personal habits, being an inappropriate creeper who accepts rejection is much more rehabilitatable than a flat out rapist (castration might be too kind.) I still don't like it, but it's potentially palatable.

I'd have preferred that Baker had worked out, but he didn't.

I can only wait and see how this works out.

Ham sandwich?

Sans the bread.

Is that you, AkronJoe?
How'd you hack Rish's account?

I'd expect a first round next year or a 2nd this year

Before the petulance and silliness Baker exhibited in this offseason - I think a 2nd round pick this year would have been more than realistic. Baker is better than Wentz and look what the colts gave up there. Now, I don't know. Regardless of cost - Baker won't be a Brown no matter what. I sort of think the NFL might impose a full year suspension on Watson, and Baker for a year rental might have been in both our interests. But that isn't going to happen. So there is no leverage with any team unless by some miracle there is a bidding war .... but doubtful.

BAKER to the SAINTS for a 1st next year and a 4th this year!

Just putting this out in hopes it materializes. Tired of waiting.

Do we really have any bargaining power with Baker? If no one offers us anything we will just cut him right? Why wouldn't the few teams that may be interested just wait for that to happen?

Then they have to bid with other teams. I think they would rather trade.

I think we should hang on to him until we get what we think he’s worth in a trade. Or at least, close enough.

I think we should hang on to him until we get what we think he’s worth in a trade. Or at least, close enough.

Someone will want him eventually.

exactly... they can trade a draft pick and get him on his current deal which gives them a year to figure out if he'll work out for their team... if we cut him then it's a bidding war where you could potentially have to give him a long term deal right away... I would think teams would be more likely to give up a pick for him...

Yea I definitely thought that at first, but that is assuming there is a market out there for him...Other than Seattle inquiring, I have not heard anything.

Baker is a bridge QB right now. He can come in and settle a QB situation until
A better option now. But he simply isnt that kind of QB that a QB needy team can
Pin their SB hopes on.

j/c...

I'm no expert on how cap space works. How long can we hold Baker and still sign free agents while he's hogging 18M of the cap? Timing is (maybe) critical to finding Baker a home.

The odds are already against us since teams know he has to go. Time is another enemy if it's preventing us from signing other players.

No way we get a first.

Cap space is a non-issue.

Why not? Name a QB in this draft that will come in and perform better. It is arguable even to say their ceilings are as high as what Baker has already achieved in his Jekyll and Hyde career. If you are really looking for a First Round QB to build your team around. Next Year is the Draft to do it in...not this year. So unless you plan on tanking...which seems to be a viable option these days...Baker is a more than solid option. I think a first rounder would be fair...He is better than a journeyman...Heck Carson Wentz got a first round pick for Philly....Speaking of Philly look at these QB's that garnered a 2nd round pick...AJ Feely, Kevin Kolb, Nick Foles...You could consider Baker similar to Sam Bradford...who was traded several times for a first...

A lot of people saying the Colts. But The Colts don't have much in the way of draft capital...especially this year...So I wouldn't mind knowing what it would take to pry DeForest Buckner away. I mean if you don't ask you can't get...

I think the Saints will prefer to chase Winston due to their familiarity and may not consider Baker a large enough upgrade (if at all)

Atlanta is going to try and make Matt Ryan feel welcome...so I don't think they are in play.

That leaves Seattle, who probably won't want to give up #9 overall....Carolina who won't want to let go of #6 overall....NY Giants have 2 1st rounders but both in the top 10...not sure I see them letting one of them go unless they REALLY want a Baker and Barkley Tandem...which they might...who knows...lol.....Detroit has 2 firsts this year...but will we take #32...maybe with something else....But I haven't heard a peep about Detroit being interested...

I think if Detroit offered #32 the Browns would take that deal in a heartbeat. Besides Detroit #32 I don't see any team offering a 2022 1st. I could see a team offering a 2023 1st if they think Baker is a long term option and would sign him to an extension before the trade is completed.

Next years first would be considered a 2nd rounder this year...and Baker is worth AT LEAST a mid 1st...So I don't see the Browns taking just 32(essentially a 2nd rounder) or just a 1st next year... JMO (especially with this years QB class and Next Years QB Class)

Hope your right. I just don't see it.

Baker isnt worth a 1st RD pick. His tough guy and chip.on.the shoulder narratives
Has ran its course. Those are fine in a hyping up a player regards to his draft status
But at some point that player has to have physical attributes to make him special

The QB position has changed to the point where the QB is expected to manufacture
Big time splash plays. The 13 to 16 play drives are becoming well yesterday
Offenses are being built on being able to.score in less than 10 plays
Baker simply was not a big play QB. He wasnt going to burn defenses with a 70 yd TD
Pass. His game is 7 yds here..13 yds there. 5 yd completion there.
Now Stefanski has a QB capable of producing big time throws past 40 yds every drive
Not just every 3-games

That is not the baker I know. He is going to he very good next year

Healthy Baker is a gunslinger. His future team will be lucky to have him.

Baker Mayfield's trade value is all based on marketing. Those who have the dream of Baker drawing a 1st round pick look at Baker as a franchise QB. The Browns haven't marketed him that way. You can't market a guy as not "being a grown up," unable to take the team to a championship, and not use his skill set for 2-years and expect to stamp a 1st round pick marker on his forehead while branding him as being unworthy of that position. You're not building his value if you're suggesting you'll keep him as a backup if you don't get what you're asking or worst yet even considering cutting the player.

Another point, I wasn't aware that the Browns were so flushed with cap money that they could afford to cut Baker and take on his 18.858M as dead cap when they already have 12.398M accumulated in dead cap even before you add in Hooper's dead cap. I mean the Browns have already kicked the can down the road on close to 100M already in future cap hit's due to guarantees and absorbing 30.796M (12.5% of the 2022 cap) as dead cap money just doesn't seem feasible.

Realistically, the Browns are sitting on an 18.858M guaranteed contract, bad mouthed the player, has shown no appreciation or commitment, and already secured a new starter and backup at the position. The Browns are hoping that the potential need of a trade partner will outweigh the poor marketing they have exhibited. At this point IMHO, the Browns would be lucky to get a 3rd round offer for Mayfield. I mean what are they going to do - cut him? I think not! Heck, I'd start out offering a 4th rounder to see what shakes out.

History says you are wrong...The going rate for Mayfield will start at a first. If Carson Wentz can garner a 1st...and the Colts ARE interested...then that is the floor, the starting point. Not to mention he is worth more than all of those QB's I mentioned that garnered a 2nd. Mayfield is a SOLID QB when healthy (which he is usually) Combine the fact that there is not another QB in this draft that can or will perform at the same level that Baker is capable of. Baker isn't GOD. That is why we are not talking multiple firsts. Consistency has been an issue. But so has the consistency of his play calling. Baker's Game requires a bit a movement, it buys him a little time and gives him better views down field. Last year, after he hurt his shoulder, I think Stefanski tried ...unsuccessfully...to try and protect him a little by keeping him in the pocket more to prevent those open field hits he could take...But that isn't Baker's game and our issues with Health at the Tackle position exacerbated that. Throw in the amount of dropped, catchable balls last year (maybe his passes were just funky to catch last year because of the slight change in his throwing motion...should that matter??? He did have an inordinate amount of balls dropped by 2 notorious receivers with great hands... in OBJ, and Landry...) Throw in the expectations...and Mayfield had his down year...Maybe he was due for a down year...that seems to be his MO...Good Year, Bad Year, Good Year, Bad Year.....But he IS worth at least a first. He is more than a bridge QB, with the "potential" to be a franchise QB...he has shown those types of flashes. When he is hot...he is SCORCHING...When he sees the field and the play...he can be one of the most accurate QB's at any distance. Again....we are talking a first....not 2...not 3, etc. If he was the bonafide back up the past seasons...you would have a point. Goroppolo went for a second...but he barely played at that point. Baker has started for 4 years and has a Playoff win (almost 2) under his belt. Also take the "sources say" thing with a grain of salt. "Want an adult" could be a personal opinion of a low lying fruit in the org. or not even in the org. and not the opinion higher up.

If you want to talk Wentz...Yes he took Philly to the Super Bowl...But, the Eagles were not losers for "decades" before Wentz. They weren't mired in a culture issue. And he had had MULTIPLE bad years in a row before being traded...he still garnered a first...

Baker worth a first is my opinion...sure...but it is based of of past QB trades and not some super fandom geekout...

j/c...

Adam Schefter is currently on WKNR and just stated the Browns had a conversation with a team over the weekend discussing Baker Mayfield. The Browns stated they wanted 'x' pick for Baker. The team responded to the Browns by saying, "how about you send us a pick just for taking on his contract."

Schefter is saying Browns will likely get a low pick for Baker and the market is quite small.

Isn't he on a rookie contract?

that and he still needs to pass a physical. maybe a 3rd is about all we'll get for him.

Yes, but it is the 5th year, so he is due maybe 17 mil, so that will make him harder to trade. We might end up keeping him.