DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield 3.0

I'm going to make one more post about Baker and move on:

It would be so much more sincere and factual if people wanted to discuss Baker's growth - and lack thereof - without making up crap about what he works on and what kind of teammate he is/was...as if we have any idea. It's now a moot point, but he ABSOLUTELY had struggles with aspects of the game that were concerning....things he needed to get better at...shoot...we already know what those things are. But since those things are hard to pin down as to the fault/reasons...the discussion always devolved into BS comments and statements of "fact" with absolutely no fact behind them.

It doesn't take a football genius to see that Baker was a square peg in a round hole in 2021. Who? What? Why? That's for fans of another team to fret about now. I and others will likely follow him as he moves on and will be forever grateful for what he accomplished here. One year ago today...we had our FQB...OBJ was going to come back with a vengeance and the OL was intact and ready to roll...an ankle...then an elbow...then a knee....blah, blah, blah.

Watching Browns fans eat their own QB after decades of downright incompetence under center was ridiculous, frustrating and almost surreal. The FO recreated that likelihood with the new guy as some folks aren't going to get over the sexual allegations. My wife and adult daughter are both willing to give him the benefit of the doubt...so there is hope that most fans will/can come around. If they do, fine...if they don't, I don't blame them.

From frying pan to fryer...the more things change the more they stay the same...you get the point.

I am not sure it was for the wrong reasons. He is gone because the team was able to significantly upgrade his position. That's what teams try to do.

In that case it would be nice for them to look at the last half of the 2020 season in which this team went to the playoffs with an 11-5 record and then make sure they took Baker's shoulder injury into consideration of the 2022 season and stop pretending that has any indication of "progress". Or his performance right up until the injury qappened this year. But I know that's not going to happen.

Look, I don't think Baker is the best QB since sliced bread. I have no issue with the team trying to improve the position. I don't approve of wallowing in the slop along with the hogs to do it, but that's not the issue here.

For me the issue is that some fans try using a year where Baker had a terrible shoulder injury and was playing hurt and try to use that as an indication in regards to "growth or progress" of him as a QB. That's disingenuous at best and purposefully manipulative at worst.

Then some claim, "opposing defenses figured him out!". They seem to believe that NFL teams can't figure out that a QB with a torn labrum in his shoulder is limited in what he can and can not do and it had more to do with the injury than Baker himself.

There are plenty of ways to show Baker wasn't the best QB. There are plenty of ways to show that DW is an improvement at the position "on the filed" than Baker.

But trying to twist and paint a picture that doesn't exist to accomplish that is something that's easy to see through.

I hope you are correct. Our now-departed QBs were a win or two - actually a couple of plays away - from repeating into the playoffs. They have to do better than that...and must do so without a slew of draft picks to the rescue.

Bakers play/stats for the 1st 4-6-8 games will likely be better than DWs...DW hasn't played for a year...DW will be new to the offense (not that we've not seen that before)...this needs to work on many, many levels.

Bottomline- the NFL doesn't value Baker Mayfield. Lots of QB jobs are GONE. Baker will have ANOTHER chip for his shoulder. Thanks for your efforts, but- again, Dorsey, the player genius messed up....GO Browns!!!! First and second picks Dorsey made NOT on team. Ugh!!!

The NFL doesn't value Baker Mayfield at $18 million. There is a difference between that and not valuing him at all.

Mayfield will go on to be a top 10 qb in the near future

...in the 8 team USFL?

Maybe Baker heads to the CFL. While he is the 34th best QB in the NFL, he would
Be the best in the CFL.
People keep on.bringing up Mayfield's torn labrum as a reason why he had
The season he had.......
But how does that factor in his regression in reading defenses and
Choking in the 4th q. ?
The Browns gave Mayfield enough time to be the best QB in the North and
A top 7 NFL QB. They finally said " we are NEVER going to reach the SB with him"

They also know we aren't going to keep him on our roster and there are only a couple of teams in a play for a QB so they will wait to see if we release him.

Buddy Boy to the rescue.

We have no reqason, at all, to release him. If you want to make him 3rd string, in case of a catastophe at QB, then do so ..... but it makes no sense to cut him, lose $18 million anyway, and maybe have a team you don't want to have bring him in a a minimum, do so.

I wonder if Baker goes to the Lions for a year, they draft Willis who sits for a year and Baker gets a chance to earn a starting job for the following year ? I see more and more Willis being targeted as a Lions pick #2.

j/c:

I think the guaranteed money is a factor, but is his salary which is close to $19 million really all that much for a qb who folks were saying was the best qb in the league, or top 3 in the league, or top 5? Is it really that much for a starting qb?

What is Carson Wentz's salary? I thought he was paid more than Baker? What did the Colts give up to acquire him last year? How much does Jimmy G make? Goff?

I am also not buying the Browns can't move him because teams know they have to move him. Did Watson play last year? Were there not at least 8 teams interested in him? Did not four teams go after him hard and were willing to give up three first round picks and more? Haven't other players like J. Ramsey forced their way off of teams? Didn't their new teams receive compensation?

I do think Baker is one of the best 32 qbs in the league. Probably somewhere between 25 and 30. However, it's too early to give up on some of the guys he is ahead of. Youngsters like Z. Wilson, T. Lawrence, J. Fields.

I also think that Baker's salary is a factor in why teams aren't lining up. However, his poor play is another factor. When former players and coaches talk about things having to be perfect for Baker to succeed, they are not talking about the team's prior record, who the HC is, etc. They are talking about how he needs a great OL who doesn't allow any pressure and not only gives Baker time, but also a huge amount of space to to survey the field. They are talking about having a dominant run game that forces teams to bring up an extra man or two into the box which gives the receivers more room to get open. They are talking about a scheme designed to hide his flaws, such as him not being good in the pocket. They are talking about limiting Baker's reads and responsibilities. All those things can be accomplished, but teams adjust. Folks are fooling themselves if they think otherwise.

I also think Baker's personality is a factor. I don't think Baker would be good for the locker room if we keep him to back up Watson and/or start in the case Watson is suspended. I don't think Baker will handle it well if he has to "compete" for the starting job w/a guy like Drew Locke. I think Baker's arrogance while displaying such insecurities is alarming. That is not the guy you want to lead grown men. Stomping off the field after a win because some fans booed you after throwing 3 picks and then chastising the fans and media is not a good look.

Dan Orlovsky, who is one of the very, very few former players to defend Baker suggested that Baker should go to Tampa Bay to sit behind Tom Brady for a year and learn what it takes to be a pro. Baker does have arm talent. Maybe he can salvage his career if he understands how to become an adult and a professional.

I have a hard time seeing Baker to Detroit with Jared Goff's contract being what it is. If they saw Baker as the future, maybe. I don't see Baker and Willis both being there when Goff is on the cap for ~$31M, or ~$41M if he's cut. Paying ~$50M-$60M for a bridge QB seems unlikely. Maybe the Lions can finagle something trade wise if they eat some of Goff's money, but I don't readily see any takers.

I hadn't realized Goff had that big a contract. Ouch. If Detroit run with Willis and whichever veteran QB is a placeholder for a year, Goff is as good as Baker.

Goff is a good comparison to Baker in some ways. He looked good for a while and played well at times, but the Rams got rid of him after a playoff run. Now he is with the Lions. and plays decent, but now there is talk of him being replaced already. Once the league has your number, you have to learn to adjust and improve your game. Neither Baker or Goff achieved that. I always liked Baker, but, it is clear that he could not adjust. It is also abundantly clear that defensive coordinators and players figured out how to stop him. They knew once he was pressured, he would get antsy in the pocket, and he did. They knew he had problems seeing the field and many times just laid back a bit and timed his passes to bat them down.

I truly believe Baker will always have trouble with his mechanics due to the fact that once he faces pressure, it is in his head. Getting sacked a lot, and then being hurt and being hit a lot has messed with his psyche. Once he leaves this team, I really don't care how he does. He gave us some good games, and played all out all the time. But bottom line, is unless he does some serious work on his game, I think he is destined to always be a guy who shows flashes, but is never consistent.

There are ways around the cap, as we have seen.

They could designate Goff as a post June 1 designation, and have that save them about $20 million against this year's cap. They could then trade for Baker, and redo his deal as a 3 year deal, with the $17 million as a signing bonus, and then add "ghost years", which will likely never be paid.

If he is seen as a starting QB with above-average ability then there would be at least one team willing to trade for him, and not have to compete with other teams in case he is released. If he is seen as a starting QB with above-average ability then the 18M salary would be reasonable.

Someone else made the analogy - your house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Not what you think it's worth. Not what the house next door sold for that's exactly like yours or not even as nice as yours.

Right now - NFL QB market - extreme buyers market. Whoever is looking has no rush. No pressure. No competition. Lots of options.

I mean folks can believe Wentz has more upside if they want. You'll not convince me in 2022 that Wentz is better than Baker. Wentz on a good team and healthy was a little better than Baker with all his injury issues in 2021. Baker in 2020 - with a half season of very bad QB play ended the year significantly better than Wentz - not just the last 9 games, taking the entire year into account.

A bit like the Watson off field issues - we are just going to have to let this play out. Those crowing about how bad Baker is and no-one wants him ... might be a little premature. I think he's still a good starter when healthy ... maybe he will tank and be like Darnold or Wentz .... time will tell.

j/c

If the Browns sat Mayfield after the torn labrum...we would be talking about 2022 being a year to see the Browns "pick-up-where-they-left-off" after Baker's terrific, top-5 back half of '20 and his carrying that over until the injury. That...and what to do with a 1st, 2nd, (2) 3rds and (2) 4ths in the top 120 or so.

If you just landed on the planet and read half of the Baker "critique" on message boards, you'd never know he tore his labrum, had no one to throw to and knew there was a turnstile at LT & RT throughout the season.

j/c....

That's what a bunch of us said when it happened. Made Haslam look like an idjat. So - desperate - Haslam bends over and gives the guy with 22 civil cases against him the biggest guaranteed contract in the history of the NFL. . . . The biggest guarantee not by a little, not by a medium size amount ... by unprecedented, stupendous mind numbingly gargantuan amount. I've said it and others too - Baker is in this situation with not having a team because of himself and taking everything public. Very childish.

Don't disagree with you that Baker gets a little unfair criticism because he played hurt last year... partly his doing as he probably felt like he had to play since he turned down the $30m offer last year so he wanted to prove him self...

but



really? We had no one to throw to? we had no weapons on this team? come on...

Sorry...we had guys with Browns football jerseys on.

TE - Hooper...not coming back...not good enough to keep
Cancer - OBJ...not coming back...one can hope
WR - Juice...injured for much of '21...not worth the $$$ on old deal...might get some reality and come back
WR - Higgins...active when his mind was right...not coming back...not good enough to keep
TE - Njoku 36 catches on 53 targets

DPJ - still developmental...leading WR for us ranked >64th in the entire league
Schwartz - hopefully gets to being developmental.

No team in the AFCN had such a dearth of pass-catching "talent".

Having people to throw the ball to is not the same thing as "weapons". When DPJ is your #2 WR and #3 is Shwartz I think you're using the word weapons very loosely. I mean every NFL team has to line up somebody in the WR positions. That doesn't mean they are weapons. Let's see who lines up at WR #2 this year.

The last year Watson played 2020, he had this as his WR depth chart.....

Brandon Cooks, Will fuller, Randall Cobb, Kenny Stills, and DeAndre Carter.

IIRC, The Giants where in cap hell.

Picking Barkley as high as they did hasn't worked out well, eh?

I didn't realize Jones was only 12-25. The Giants aren't anything if not patient. I'm sure their fans have another word for it though, lol.

Baker and the NY media would be fun from an outsiders view looking in

Was thinking that would be really interesting... not sure he'd do well with the NY media...

Baker does not take criticism well.at all. The Cleveland media is the most non rabid around
In a matter of speaking. And Mayfield couldnt deal them.
His career as a starting QB is almost done. His immaturity did him.in

j/c…

j/c...

A game of who blinks first.

There is no incentive to cut Baker. Eating salary makes the most sense at this point but there is no rush.

But there is certainly an incentive to have at home him sitting on the couch while you're paying him.

Haha.....this has to be coming from someone in the Browns' FO as to not seem like the Browns feel immediate urgency to trade him, thus will take something really low in terms of value.

Like they really feel comfortable going into the season with Baker on the roster? Yeah, ok.