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#gmstrong
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[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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ROFL.
I'm on the writers' side. There's no reason they shouldn't see money from internet properties (which will be growing by the years)
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these really dont help their cause in my book.
maybe they should try to do some real work before they complain that they arent getting enough.
Every Cleveland fan is a diehard fan...everyone else quit watching
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These guys are talented. In a different way than the players we root for on Sunday, but at the same level within their field. The idea that they can have their product distributed online and having companies making money off of it without them seeing a dime isn't right in my book. They are willing to look at percentages and not a flat fee to balance the studios claims that the internet is still too flexible to have a set fee. They are willing to relinquish claims on DVD sales to get rights to internet sales. I've done some writing in the lower levels (radio ads, etc.) and have a nice collection of rejection letters from a book I tried to sell. The amount of work that went into that thing, if it had become a huge success, I'd have really wanted a nice chunk of change from it.
My only problem with the WGA strike is the timing. They timed this to hit the studios/other workers around the holidays. They did that so there can be stories about how some gaffer on some show that has been shut down not being able to have a traditional Christmas, etc. That rubs me the wrong way, but on the actual points I think the WGA has some actual claims (This from a guy that is pretty staunchly anti-union).
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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1st String
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these really dont help their cause in my book.
maybe they should try to do some real work before they complain that they arent getting enough.
And how is what they do not real work? A job is a job, dude and not everyone is talented enough to drive a backhoe or shovel horse manure. The fact that these people use their brain to earn a living and not their back makes them no better or worse than someone who pulls on a wrench all day. I'd like to see you write 5 episodes of topical television a week.
If their labor is being exploited by their employers, what does it matter? They are only demanding their fair share of the profits now that new technology has changed the market. Like you'd just sit back and say nothing in their position.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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these really dont help their cause in my book.
maybe they should try to do some real work before they complain that they arent getting enough.
And how is what they do not real work? A job is a job, dude and not everyone is talented enough to drive a backhoe or shovel horse manure. The fact that these people use their brain to earn a living and not their back makes them no better or worse than someone who pulls on a wrench all day. I'd like to see you write 5 episodes of topical television a week.
If their labor is being exploited by their employers, what does it matter? They are only demanding their fair share of the profits now that new technology has changed the market. Like you'd just sit back and say nothing in their position.
LOL...that reminds me of the story of what my grandpa told my dad when my dad said he was going to become a teacher.
Grandpa: "So what are you going to do for work?"
Dad: "Well, I think I'm going to become a teacher."
Grandpa: "No I mean what are you doing to do for WORK!"
Dad: "I told you I'm going to become a teacher!"
Grandpa: I KNOW you said that but WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR WORK??????"
GrandMA: "HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO BE A TEACHER, BEN!!!!!!"
Grandpa: "THAT'S NOT WORK!!!!!!"
Translation: if it's not manual labor, it's not work, according to his backwards way of thinking.
Ironically, my dad thinks my pre-graduation work should be manual labor, aside from internships.
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I think the WAG has some actual claims (This from a guy that is pretty staunchly anti-union).
So you are pro union when it is something that hits kind of close to home??
The issues they are facing are similar to what most unions are fighting for. I think you are showing a bit of classism here. When it is writers which is something you are very familiar with it is a good thing but when it is just some schlub working in a factory making things you use everyday screw them and their union .
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I think the WAG has some actual claims (This from a guy that is pretty staunchly anti-union).
So you are pro union when it is something that hits kind of close to home??
The issues they are facing are similar to what most unions are fighting for. I think you are showing a bit of classism here. When it is writers which is something you are very familiar with it is a good thing but when it is just some schlub working in a factory making things you use everyday screw them and their union .
KING
I think the difference is, in the case of the auto industry, the unions are one of the biggest reasons why they're losing money hand over fist, whereas as far as the writers strike goes, the writers are a huge reason why the profits are soaring for these companies, and what their asking for won't drown their profit margins.
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I think the WAG has some actual claims (This from a guy that is pretty staunchly anti-union).
So you are pro union when it is something that hits kind of close to home??
The issues they are facing are similar to what most unions are fighting for. I think you are showing a bit of classism here. When it is writers which is something you are very familiar with it is a good thing but when it is just some schlub working in a factory making things you use everyday screw them and their union .
KING
I think the difference is, in the case of the auto industry, the unions are one of the biggest reasons why they're losing money hand over fist, whereas as far as the writers strike goes, the writers are a huge reason why the profits are soaring for these companies, and what their asking for won't drown their profit margins.
I would agree with you ammo. Nice post.
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[I think the difference is, in the case of the auto industry, the unions are one of the biggest reasons why they're losing money hand over fist, .
Who said anything about the auto industry?? I didnt. There is much more to unions in this country than the auto industry.
I will not comment on the problems with the union AND the mangement in the auto industry because that is for another thread.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I'm still trying to figure out how shows like Letterman and Leno can't go on during a writer's strike. While I understand that quality jokes and bits are usually written for these guys I am suprised that they can't do 45 minutes or so with ad libs and their guests...go figure.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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All Pro
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I think the WAG has some actual claims (This from a guy that is pretty staunchly anti-union).
So you are pro union when it is something that hits kind of close to home??
The issues they are facing are similar to what most unions are fighting for. I think you are showing a bit of classism here. When it is writers which is something you are very familiar with it is a good thing but when it is just some schlub working in a factory making things you use everyday screw them and their union .
KING
I think the difference is, in the case of the auto industry, the unions are one of the biggest reasons why they're losing money hand over fist, whereas as far as the writers strike goes, the writers are a huge reason why the profits are soaring for these companies, and what their asking for won't drown their profit margins.
The union is not responsible for the "failures" of the auto companies. It's the management of the auto companies. How is it right that auto workers are being forced to relocate, accept a buyout, or accept around a 50% paycut while the executives earn multi-million $ bonuses on top of their multi-million $ salaries. One of the old CEOs of ford (i think he was ceo, but i cant remember for sure) got a multi-million $ buyout just to leave the company. I think that's money that can be more wisely spent, don't you think?
The situation can be compared to the oil companies. We are paying more and more for gas and the oil companies make record profits! It's ridiculous!
Sorry about taking the thread a little off topic, but i had to say my peace.
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The union is not responsible for the "failures" of the auto companies. It's the management of the auto companies. How is it right that auto workers are being forced to relocate, accept a buyout, or accept around a 50% paycut while the executives earn multi-million $ bonuses on top of their multi-million $ salaries. One of the old CEOs of ford (i think he was ceo, but i cant remember for sure) got a multi-million $ buyout just to leave the company. I think that's money that can be more wisely spent, don't you think?
The unions AND management are to blame for the downfall of Ford, Chrysler and GM. The unions wanted it all for many years and they had it for many years. The demands the unions placed on the co's was just idiotic and it's now showing -- pay, benefits, etc. -- all that adds up especially when you are making an inferior product.
So, the unions got what they wanted for many years and now it's time to do something or start working at Honda or Toyota.
Unions had their place in the 1800's when you could go to work and die b/c of bad conditions, but that time has passed. So too has the time for unions.
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Quote:
I think the difference is, in the case of the auto industry, the unions are one of the biggest reasons why they're losing money hand over fist, whereas as far as the writers strike goes, the writers are a huge reason why the profits are soaring for these companies, and what their asking for won't drown their profit margins.
First off, I disagree that the unions are sinking the auot industry. And I don't think that they're *not* a huge reason why profits have soared. I don't know where the auto industry analogy first came from, but its baseless....the auto industry has a limited earning capacity, and the union members don't make jack. The entertainment industry has a practically unlimited earning potential and these guys are very well off, in many cases filthy rich. You're talking about shows that spend more money in one day on petty cash than your yearly tuition costs. In the end, both scenarios involve workers who think the company's earning enough money to mandate better compensation...the auto industry's in a bind because their earning potential is limited, so they've got to make sure they're filthy rich enough before they throw crumbs...the entertainment industry has very little (almost imagined) financial constraints...the earning capacity is almost endless....and their workers are living the dream...but they too see the mind-boggling amount of money they raise...
We'll win. No doubt. We've got the people, the leverage (the SAG and most other entertainment guild contracts fall in consecutive years....if they don't fix this one, the actors go next  ).
But the biggest difference between auto and entertainment unions is that one can be quantified, creatively. This guy wrote this script...it's a no brainer that he deserves a bigger chunk....but what about the auto worker? He assembled this car, right? Shouldn't he get the profits? The inevitable answer is that he did it with the company's technology, equipment and parts....but how does the writer manage to pen these episodes? He's afforded the creativity to do so by free days without labor, courtesy of funding by the network...he is given a team to work with...technology to make the paper three dimensional....in short, he too is using the company's technology, equipment and parts.
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The reason that I'm largely anti-union is my belief that unions have greatly outlived their purpose. Unions were set up to ensure safe working conditions, rid of child-labor, etc. If unions didn't exist when they started, people would have been seriously injured and/or even killed in their jobs. I get that. Yay union! Now, however, its become something where workers get together largely to try and milk every cent out of companies (no problem) by ensuring jobs and promotions for workers that have been there the longest (big problem). I worked in a union shop in college, in a warehouse. It was amazing to see the consistently mediocre getting nice pay raises and promotions. It takes a lot of the driving force away from the exceptional workers because unions have set it up where its largely based on how long you've been there, not how well you work. I have a problem with that. Unions probably still have a purpose, I just think that in 99% of the circumstances its greatly over-stated.
During the economic boom of the mid-to-late 90's unions demanded pay raises, better retirement packages, more insurance, etc. They could do that because business was going pretty well, at least on the surface. Now that the economy isn't as prosperous, these same unions are costing people jobs by demanding more increases and perks, based on what they previously got. The one head of the union where I worked asked my opinion when I worked there of what I thought they should go after in their next contract (This would have been in 2003ish). I said a high buy-out and job security. He laughed and said I didn't understand unions. They got what they wanted in increased benefits for current workers and a $2.50/hr. pay raise over the 10-year contract. They also had the plant close in 2005. Unions have started looking out for the unions and not for the workers, something that is almost mind-boggling.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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What on earth are you talking about???? We are talking about creative license here. If you are going to compare the writers to the auto industry, then you at least need to make similar comparisons. The Writers are not the same as the guy on the line....In the auto industry, the closest thing I can think of to the Writers would be the engineers and designers. In the auto industry the engineers and designers create, design and develop the product that the company eventually builds and then sells. The writers create, design, and develop the product that eventually the companies will air. If anything the autoworkers are more in line with the production crews like the gaffers, grips, set builders...etc. We are talking about CREATION ....not ASSEMBLY. The thing is, that creation is something that cannot be trained into a person. The skill can be developed, but it can't be taught . But as long as someone is physically able, assembly can be taught. Now if the autoworkers designed, engineered and then built and assembled every single piece of that vehicle(or even a small group of auto workers) you might have an argument. How many writers are on an average sit-com???? 15- 20????? a little more??? How does that compare with the number of people used to assemble a car???? Quite simply there is no comparison. Quote:
and the union members don't make jack.
The following is from http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-28-buyout-packages_x.htm
In Detroit, where generations of families have made solid, middle-class livings working on the line, autoworkers worry about what they're giving up when they agree to walk away from jobs. They earn about $57,000 on average for jobs requiring little more than a high school education and a clean criminal record. They get health benefits unmatched by any other industry, paying next to nothing for medical bills. Unionized workers get paid even if they're not working.
**** ok....I make a little more than they do on average and I needed a bachelors and 10 years in the industry......And I do a job that most (if not all)of them CAN'T do.....You want to go on and tell us how bad the union autoworkers are doing???? Of course this isn't California where the cost of living can be double what it is here....but around here, you can live pretty comfotably (but not lavishly) on that kind of salary and benefits. Most people out there needed to spend thousands to get their degree and then years in the field to get to this point.
Now I am not trying to besmirch the autoworkers. They bust their butt literally and physically. But don't expect me to think that their work is in any way comparable to those who have to create, design, develop for a living. One requires training...the other requires a gift from birth that not anyone nor everyone posesses. And frankly that deserves more of a share than the other. Simple supply and demand....you can find far more people to do the autoworkers job then you could find to do the writers jobs.
This is about the ownership of an idea....not the assembly of a product.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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"...This is about the ownership of an idea....not the assembly of a product"
If I hire you to assemble the doors of a car on an assembly line who then does the finished product belong to???
If I hire you to write jokes for me and you do...don't I have the right to use those jokes in whatever manner I choose short of claiming authorship? Is there a copyright issue on jokes?
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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If I hire you to write jokes for me and you do...don't I have the right to use those jokes in whatever manner I choose short of claiming authorship? Is there a copyright issue on jokes?
Perhaps you have a point, however the current WGA contract allows the writers to get paid per episode. If you watched The Office version, the studios have been getting around this by classifying all web content, all sales through online brokers, as promotions. Tell me how that is right. The bigger issue, that you are driving at, is the concept of residuals. Once that automaker puts the doors on the car, that car can be sold once. Once a writer finishes a script, that script can be used multitudes of times and sold over and over again at pure company profit. Perhaps you are right in the writers shouldn't get a piece of that, but if that is the case, each script should be worth a LOT more than it is right now and the studios would never allow that because only the successful shows make money and those lost shows would become extremely expensive to produce. I like that idea a lot, but neither side would ever allow it to happen. Studios would worry about production costs and writers wouldn't want the lesser writers to be left out in the new contract.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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and the union members don't make jack.
As was mentioned before, they make a healthy living. My bigger issue is, why do they make a healthy living? I'm not trying to knock anybody here, but these jobs require a diploma (not even all of them require that). I know its tedious labor, but I'm looking at it thinking that the job should probably pay $12/hr. and rise to a max of $15. If they want more than that, they are more than welcome to look elsewhere. Instead, unions have helped create an economy where people no longer think that it is necessary to further themselves, because they can make a living doing work like that. While education shouldn't be the only factor in a job market, I cannot understand why the auto industry continues to cave and giving pay raises to less qualified workers. Giving raises to them, means giving raises to middle management, then to upper management, etc. They are paying way more than they have to, its hurting their business, which is in turn killing the industry.
I'm not trying to take money away from anybody on here, I just can't understand the feeling that these people are some how entitled to salaries that high.
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these guys are very well off, in many cases filthy rich.
Some, yes. But not nearly as many as you think. The writers who are filthy rich are the very successful ones at TV and movies. The Judd Apatows, Aaron Sorkins, Chuck Lorres, and Greg Daniels are all doing fine because they are the heads of the shows/movies and work out bigger, private contracts. Its much more the actual writers who are losing out in this deal. The guys who you wouldn't know if they were wearing a resume around their neck. Some of these guys are very talented, and make a decent wage, but are far from filthy rich as you state.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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these really dont help their cause in my book.
maybe they should try to do some real work before they complain that they arent getting enough.
Let me guess. You made some bad life choices and/or you have no creative talents, and so, to make yourself feel better as you slave away at your POS job, you jealously proclaim that this is not real work because they don't break a sweat. Don't take your personal frustrations out on others. If this is not real work then you should be able to write an episode. I challenge you to back up your ignorant statements by writing something that can match what these people do.
The writers are getting screwed from behind by these greedy corporations. I think the timing is perfect.
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. They got what they wanted in increased benefits for current workers and a $2.50/hr. pay raise over the 10-year contract. .
$2.50 a hour over 10 years??!! Are you kidding me? Thats ..25 a year. That is barely cost of living. If the company went out of business for giving pay increases that barely covered cost of living then I doubt it was the union that caused the business to go under.
I didnt really want to get into the union discussion again, its bengone over so many times and we all have made our positions clear. I guess I have been lucky to work long term in two jobs that the union /company relationship worked for both sides the way it is supposed to. I was just saying that I find it ironic for someone who is anti union to support this union in their fight for better pay and benefits.
KING
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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$2.50 base starting over that 10-year period. The hired workers had a salary structure already worked out that they kept (I think 3.5-4.5% annually, but I'm not certain on that). I should have been more specific on that, my bad.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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The Writers are not the same as the guy on the line....In the auto industry, the closest thing I can think of to the Writers would be the engineers and designers.
No doubt...I said the example given was apples and oranges.
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We are talking about CREATION ....not ASSEMBLY.
Yeah? You watched some of the stuff they trot out?
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You want to go on and tell us how bad the union autoworkers are doing????
$57 G's a year plus benefits is - when comparing the apples and oranges of the two professions - making jack.
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Some, yes. But not nearly as many as you think. The writers who are filthy rich are the very successful ones at TV and movies. The Judd Apatows, Aaron Sorkins, Chuck Lorres, and Greg Daniels are all doing fine because they are the heads of the shows/movies and work out bigger, private contracts. Its much more the actual writers who are losing out in this deal. The guys who you wouldn't know if they were wearing a resume around their neck. Some of these guys are very talented, and make a decent wage, but are far from filthy rich as you state.
Trust me, I don't think, I know.
When it comes to late night talk shows - depending on your network - you're looking at the green rookie starting at about $80k a year, with about a 5-10% yearly increase in pay if they stay on. Couple that with the residuals for appearances made on the show (and some talk shows use their writers in heavy rotation in sketches)....you're talking filthy rich. And when I say filthy rich, I tend to think in a grand scope, a global or comparative scope...and six figures is filthy...Daniels and Lorre make unimaginable money...the guys on the low end of the pole aren't swimming in money...but they're not hurting right now....they're not cancelling Christmas (the crew of some programs, on the other hand...)
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the whole auto union/ writers union you have going on is a little off base... look at the first video in this thread again.
This is an issue of distribution. It is a matter of getting paid for secondary, and tertiary avenues of distribution.
It isn't a matter of creation, assembly, or any of that this is more akin to an automotive company saying if we sell a car you build in the States, then you get paid, but now that we are selling cars in Europe, and making in roads into China, thsoe cars you dont get paid for.
IMO
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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the whole auto union/ writers union you have going on is a little off base...
It's way, way off-base. I didn't throw it out there...I was just working with the comparison.
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It is a matter of getting paid for secondary, and tertiary avenues of distribution.
Like I said, an industry with an almost unlimited capacity for revenue...first-run, reruns, DVD, t-shirts, syndication, internet.
The auto industry isn't really comparable, but like many things on this board, they're compared for the sake of argument anyway.
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are you trying to say that people on a message board argue sometimes for no reason but to hear themselves  
When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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"...Tell me how that is right. The bigger issue, that you are driving at, is the concept of residuals. Once that automaker puts the doors on the car, that car can be sold once. Once a writer finishes a script, that script can be used multitudes of times and sold over and over again at pure company profit. Perhaps you are right in the writers shouldn't get a piece of that, but if that is the case, each script should be worth a LOT more than it is right now and the studios would never allow that because only the successful shows make money and those lost shows would become extremely expensive to produce..."
The idea of what is right in a contract dispute is a non issue until a dollar and cents amount is agreed upon.The studio is the customer/consumer and the writer,producer,actor,grip,stunt man are the sellers...let them work it out.
What I find really silly is the notion that "artists" such as the writers and actors have a union which claims that their work is individual in creation and distinct from all others but at the same time in need of protection as a group. If the artist is producing individual works of art why can't their creations be observed and enjoyed by the masses on a grand scale[TV, internet, IPOD] once the initial commission is payed to the artist.
If it was good enough for Rembrandt,Van Gogh and Salvador Dali why not good enough for a writer on the "Daily Show"????
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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$2.50 base starting over that 10-year period. The hired workers had a salary structure already worked out that they kept (I think 3.5-4.5% annually, but I'm not certain on that). I should have been more specific on that, my bad.
They are getting 3.5 to 4.5 % plus .50 a year?? Thats doesmt make sense. 3% is a fair deal usually.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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3.5-4.5% in annual raises, worked out a bump in base (starting) salary by $2.50 over 10 years. That was the deal that was presented. In exchange, the union lowered the contract buy-out to next to nothing and lesser medical package.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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As was mentioned before, they make a healthy living. My bigger issue is, why do they make a healthy living? I'm not trying to knock anybody here, but these jobs require a diploma (not even all of them require that). I know its tedious labor, but I'm looking at it thinking that the job should probably pay $12/hr. and rise to a max of $15.
So like I said you don't feel somebody who works for a living should be able to make a decent living. Thats pretty selfish of you. Also like I have tried to point out many times but the Autoworkers are a small percentage of union workers in this nation and are definitely not a model or the average union shop. $12 to $13 would be a pretty average starting rate for a lot of union shops and a scale up to about $15 to $16 a hour would be about normal.
Getting a college degree isnt for everybody but if you dont get one you should still be able to go to a job and work hard and make a decent living, which is what the majority of union workers do.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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The $12-15 rate I have no problem with at all. If they can find those jobs, great for them. Its when you see people making $25-30/hr. to put car doors on that I have a problem. Maybe saying "have a problem" is the wrong term. I don't begrudge these people their jobs. My issues comes much more in the fact that the companies will cave and keep raising the salaries of those jobs and then complain about their profits sinking. If they would set a max pay scale, stick to it, and let their employees walk if they didn't like it, their numbers would look much better. It wouldn't be popular (nor should it be) initially, but its a much better business model. These companies have a large pool to grab workers from and are willing to keep raising their own costs. It doesn't make sense to me from a business perspective. Why should a person who puts a door on a car have their job valued (in some cases) near $30/hr.? I cannot grasp that. I don't begrudge them for making it, but it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Right, what they should do is only hire illegals and pay them close to nothing.  Great idea. Makes sense from a business standpoint right? 
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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NavyDawg....We are generally on the same page but neither you nor I has much input into the wages paid the workers. If the automakers are hiring illegals for $8/per hour they'll be caught quickly...but to claim that only a wage of $24-32/hour is just is silly- unless the retirement benefits are drastically reduced.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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I was being facetious.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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The $12-15 rate I have no problem with at all. If they can find those jobs, great for them. Its when you see people making $25-30/hr. to put car doors on that I have a problem. .
The thing is thought that the automakers have no problem in paying these salaries to their current employees and the never have. At one time it was a great situation for all involved. the companies were making great profits, front office executives and personnel were making great money with lots of perks, and the workers on the floor ere making a decent living. Nothing wrong with that right?? The problem the auto corporations are having now is as they get older and older they have a incredible amount of legacy that they are paying for while foreign autoworkers are squeezing their profits. I don't see how you can blame the workers for getting contracts with what the companies were willing to offer them. The companies and unions were short sighted in a time of great wealth. Most of the unions have made huge concessions but the US autoworkers are kind of a dinosaur that doesn't represent the model of most unions yet is held up as one every time unions are discussed.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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The $12-15 rate I have no problem with at all. If they can find those jobs, great for them. Its when you see people making $25-30/hr. to put car doors on that I have a problem. Maybe saying "have a problem" is the wrong term. I don't begrudge these people their jobs. My issues comes much more in the fact that the companies will cave and keep raising the salaries of those jobs and then complain about their profits sinking. If they would set a max pay scale, stick to it, and let their employees walk if they didn't like it, their numbers would look much better. It wouldn't be popular (nor should it be) initially, but its a much better business model. These companies have a large pool to grab workers from and are willing to keep raising their own costs. It doesn't make sense to me from a business perspective. Why should a person who puts a door on a car have their job valued (in some cases) near $30/hr.? I cannot grasp that. I don't begrudge them for making it, but it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.
Why shouldn't they?
The auto industry could afford it then, now they are struggling because of the price of cars, not the price of worker salaries and benefits. People buy hondas, toyotas, kias, etc. mostly due to price and gas mileage and it's killing the auto industry. It also doesn't help that the CEO of Ford makes more in bonuses than the top 30 executives of Honda make in a year salary.
you can't expect workers to be okay with taking a 50% paycut. If they take a buyout they get the equivalent of a years salary (which they can pay off bills with) but then they have to take a job that pays the same 50% of their previous salary.
In comparison to other factory jobs are auto workers higher paid, yes by about $10/hour. However, that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be paid. Theres nothing wrong with getting paid good money.
The union isn't demanding too much from the auto companies becuase the union is already giving up a lot to them now.
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I don't see how you can blame the workers for getting contracts with what the companies were willing to offer them.
I wouldn't say that I am blaming them, if money is there, you take it. What I am saying is that their work is overvalued in the current market by a good amount.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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I worked in a car plant one summer and for the most part I was ridicuously overpaid at $15.63 an hour 8 years ago. Good summer job while in college. The one job I did I felt I was getting paid well compared to what I was doing. The rest were 10-12 dollar an hour jobs...
I witnessed people abuse the system left and right which falls on both the union and management. Guys that would take off for hours and go to the bar and made 28/hour made me sick. My uncle worked 12 hours shifts 7 days a week for year and raked in over 100 grand each year. That's not so bad considering how much of his life he gave to the company. It was the guys who were milking the system, showing up drunk/high, pretending to work when they weren't, etc that pissed me off to no end...
#gmstrong
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