DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield 3.0

Given the exact same situation how would you feel... The Browns botched this entire deal... Baker may not be the best out there... My guess is that Watson will be better. But Baker gave it up every week... He put it out there.... He didn't deserve to be treated in this fashion.. I think he earned the right to be a little bitchy....

I think Baker showed his ass in this - I've made that comment before. But the team absolutely screwed this up and with the help of sensationalistic media, made this a drama instead of 'business as normal' ... Both sides own fault.

With that said - it's sort of funny - if not outright hypocrisy - to call Baker a bitch for his attitude when Watson refused to play for the Texans after simply not being allowed to choose the next HC. So - from some - not only is he getting a complete free pass on 22 civil cases against him - he's getting a complete free pass on behaving far worse than Baker EVER has throughout his entire career and "mental midgetness" as those that love to pile on and judge Baker in the harshest light have have branded him.

Agreed...the way the FO botched this whole thing leaves Mayfield with the equivalent of a no-trade clause. All he has to do is refuse to renegotiate his contract if he's pegged to be sent to a team he doesn't want to play for. I think "it" is the reason why teams tell players they are free to seek a trade...said player (agent) contacts the team(s) said player is interested in playing for and willing to renegotiate with.

The problem I have with this is:

IMO...I think that it's clear the FO was done with Baker. IMO they lied about "seeing" Baker as the starter for next year - in an attempt to create the illusion of leverage with other QBs. The FO pulled down their pants for DW...and he said no...then they pulled down DW's pants too...filled it with a stupid amount of cash...and THEN he said yes. No pun intended...maybe. THEN the Houston FO got in on the action with the pantless Browns FO and bent them over...and now we have a QB we can't move...with an 18.9 mil cap hit...and no 1st Rd pick for the next three years (which = forever in the NFL) and Jacoby Brisett as our likely starting QB for x# of games. I don't know how this could have been handled any worse.

Hindsight alert: Knowing that they were done with Baker...and "knowing" that even IF they land DW he will miss x# of games which wastes 2022 anyway...the FO should have gotten out in front of this debacle and the QB trade/move frenzy...and beat the Colts to the Redskins trade.

I think the smart guys (who I like) simply outsmarted themselves. The FO has made a lot of moves since their start to build credibility with how they handled vets they no longer wanted by early releases or trades...but this debacle (whether you love or hate Baker or are somewhere in-between) reverses a lot of that hard-earned credibility. If this FO can do what they did with the "face of the franchise", they can do "it" to anyone...so it would appear.

This should make Stefanski sleep well at night.

Yep...now the QB is THE guy THEY chose/bent-over-for...he'll have the "power" that eluded Baker...with Ski now in that web. What could go wrong?

Or there could be a different take on Watson's getting out of Houston:
link

Not getting to have a voice in the HC may have been the last straw for Watson. Perhaps he was tired of lousy OLs, his best teammates being traded for peanuts, and being treated like an "inmate." If they weren't going to let him be involved in the "running of the prison," why stick around?

Hey...I mentioned the Giants....LOL....

Daniel Jones doesn't do anything for us except maybe give us a QB3 that we can't put on the practice squad....

Barkley, well......yes our RB room is STACKED....but it could give us more flexibility for trades. I think if we are able to hold on to D'Ernest Johnson (which I think is likely) that adding Barkley would give us more flexibility to trade Johnson which might be more enticing to teams because of Barkley's injury past (and they don't have to worry about doing crazy accounting to try to sign Johnson outright).

Then, I think everyone would agree that a healthy Barkley is better than a healthy Johnson. So with a true 3 headed monster at RB, we have the opportunity to keep Barkley healthier with out having to carry 100% of the Offense like he had to do in NY. Add to that the Offensive Line he would have here compared with what he had in NY...well I think he could be very productive for us leading to another trade to get picks back.

The question I would have: Is Kenny Golloday a better option for us? He hasn't lit the world on fire but could be a pretty solid addition to the WR room. So what would a trade look like with Golloday instead of either of the other 2...

The upside for Mayfield is limited to the obvious (IMO). It's in his best interest to facilitate a path off the Browns roster.

This. It's tempting to draw parallels between Baker's and Watson's situations, but (IMO) they don't hold up to scrutiny.

This conversation about Baker playing while Watson is suspended, for example the first 6 games, and "balling out" thus giving the Browns more leverage when trading Mayfield mid-season is just crazy. First of all, no team would trade for Mayfield mid-season unless they could extend him. Why would any team give all that capital for a 9-10 game loan? Why would Baker even think of agreeing to a trade after "balling out" knowing he is going to be an Unrestrictive FA in 10 weeks? If Baker was to "ball out" as you suggest, he would be an idiot to accept a deal favorable to the Browns and sign any kind of extension with a single team when he would know that his value has risen and he could negotiate with multiple teams in less than 4 months or so. Just another note - imagine if you will that Baker goes 6-0 and 'balls out" yet is replaced when Watson returns. What happens if the Browns lose those first couple of games due to the fact Watson is playing in a new system, is rusty from sitting over a year and a half, and the offense struggles because of the different scheme deployed between Mayfield and Watson? It would be total armageddon in the press and locker room.

Armageddon is a Cleveland Browns tradition.

I agree. There is no reason for Baker to restructure anything or add years unless it is for a team wanting his services.

That request would have to come from a team wanting to trade for him, not the Browns. I doubt he is going to do the Browns any favors and unreasonable to expect, or even hope he does so.

Excuses for Watson? Man the guy gets cut more slack than any other player I have ever seen. Wonder if that changes the first hiccup he has with the Browns ? Should it matter what the rest of the team was like? If Watson doesn't like the Browns D - or if our OL gets worse in the next 3 years we think it will be okay to have Watson say he's not playing?

We talk about Baker being mentally weak and immature - but you think the owner making an off the cuff comment about inmates running the place and he's justified in quitting his team, his coaches and teammates. ey ey ey.

You are definitely the contrarian in chief.

This is the type of response you get when someone knows they have been nailed to the wall and lack a legitimate response. They resort to shallow, immature personal attacks like an elementary school child. I gave you the entire scenario of what it would take for a player to come out and support Mayfield. The reason they wouldn't do it. And you came back with? Nothing but a bag filled with personal garbage. I certainly don't expect you to man up and actually have a conversation about it because you know you don't have a case to make here. What a joke.

Contrarian in chief is a bit hyperbolic, but I can see where you're coming from. It might be worthy of a line in my signature. Though, there might be people on the board I'd have to fight to truly earn the title.

I don't know if it's entirely fair to say Watson quit on the team. The team paid him to stay away because of the legal issues. Would he have showed up if they wanted him there? It's hard to say definitively. Did he want traded? Absolutely. No one wants to waste their prime amidst a rebuild. That roster is 0-16 Browns bad. It might actually be filled with 0-16 Browns players.

It's hard to consider the inmates running the prison comment off the cuff when Mr. McNair later does an interview and says he doesn't regret saying it, but does regret apologizing for saying it. That's allegedly what led to Hopkins holding out and getting traded.

Hopefully our team won't get as bad as the Texans are while Watson is here, so we won't have to worry about Watson wanting out.

I'll complain about him if we reach that bridge.

Yet more immaturity from the peanut gallery. I see you refused to address the actual subject too.

Baker doesn’t have to agree to restructure. We would just pay down some of salary before he is traded to the acquiring team doesn’t have to take on as much salary.

What's your definition of "actual subject"?

While I haven't heard any players voice vocal support for Baker, nor have I heard any say that they are glad he's gone, they have remained fairly neutral, which they should...

But what is telling is how OBJ expressed an interest in coming back with Watson here. Jarvis seemed reinvigorated to stay with Watson here. And Clowney also seemed more interested in resigning with Watson here. That doesn't mean that they don't like Baker, but it does indicate that they view Watson as the much better QB to get them and the team in a better place.

It also speaks to the fact that knowing they had a QB was a huge mental upgrade to the lack of surety of the Baker Mayfield situation.

The more details come out, the more I feel like Baker slammed the door behind himself on the way out last season.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines a bit:



Seems like Bake was strictly "talk to my people" as far as his m.o. towards the FO this offseason. I'm sure there were plenty in the locker room that knew that.

Wherever he decides to slide that goal post.

"Seems like Bake was strictly "talk to my people" as far as his m.o. towards the FO this offseason. I'm sure there were plenty in the locker room that knew that."

I'm confused there...don't most players allow their agents to handle the ugly side of "talks"? How could the locker room know what was and wasn't being discussed in the offseason?

I imagine Watson hasn't personally spoke with the ding-dongs running the Texans org either.

I'd guess that all these guys who work, sweat and bleed together have a pretty good idea when a key member is playing "talk to the hand" with the org. Especially if it's the QB. Not that I really know... thus the word "seems".

Your explanation/input ^ makes sense...this does not:

"Seems like Bake was strictly "talk to my people" as far as his m.o. towards the FO this offseason"...with a trailer comment/opinion that the players knew that that was (going to be?) Baker's m.o. with the FO in the off-season...the players aren't around during the off-season....how could they have any idea of Baker's post-season m.o.?

The last time the players were together, the FO told the world that Baker was their starter for next year. While battling with each other DURING the season, did Baker let-on what would be his off-season m.o. with the FO without then knowing that they were going to move on form him?

I'm assuming that teammates talk to each other during the off-season.

Maybe they don't.

The issue is the Browns do not want to pay - they have over played and over valued their hand combined with the way they handled the situation. The second part of the equation is two-part 1) Mayfield is going to get paid 18.9M in 2022 - period and 2) Mayfield being in his final year is more of a problem than the 18.9M. Any trade is going to be a 1-year loaner unless the team negotiates an extension. Now a team would certainly take a gamble on Mayfield for 8M with the Browns picking up the remaining 10.9M and throwing in a 3rd round pick but nobody is going to pay 18.9M for a one-year loaner. The Browns screwed themselves royally the way they handled this. Like it's been previously stated, Baker basically has a "no trade clause" because of the way they handled this. In fact, the longer they play this cat and mouse game the less value Mayfield has to the Browns. IMHO, the longer the Browns hold on to Mayfield the more teams will look at the way he's being treated than his last played injured year. Especially considering this: what has anyone heard from Baker or his camp since he said he wants to be traded? For a person that has been classified as being immature a thousand times on this forum, where is he showing that immaturity? Mayfield was not the only NFL player that requested a trade this off season. I mean it wasn't Baker that quit on the Browns, it was the Browns that said he wasn't good enough to continue to lead the team so they wanted to explore upgrading the position when in reality, they were making an offer for that replacement. Mayfield is a FA in 2023 and because of how the Browns handled this no team is willing to take that gamble not knowing whether the investment is a 1-year deal or longer. I don't expect Mayfield to cooperate with the Browns in any way, shape, or form. This is what happens when you "screw the pooch!"

But, the Browns got the shiny new toy/turd that makes everyone think the Browns are, once again, THE team. Off season crap...............Oh, this year...........or maybe next year......

Wash, rinse, repeat.

arch, I don't consider the Browns the favorite this year. And I know you like Baker and am not trying to be mean. However, the Browns think Watson is a huge upgrade. This board has been like an alternative universe. The football world has been on to Baker for quite some time. The former NFL players that talk about him are almost all against him. They don't like his attitude and they don't think he is very good. The analytics say he isn't good. He is a bottom tier qb. His teammates don't care for him. They haven't defended him. They did defend OBJ, yet this board crucified him. I am not lumping you in w/some of the guys on here that I think are dishonest. I just think that you like Baker and thought he he was a good player. That's cool. It's fine to have different evaluations of the player/team.

The one thing to think about is how so many said he was so great. Yet, the Browns wanted to move on from him. Houston did not want him in the trade for Watson and their QB is Davis Mills. LOL. The Colts passed on him for a 38 year old qb. The Falcons took Marcus Mariotta. The Panthers say they don't want him. It's been reported that a team said they wanted a draft pick in return for trading for him. I'm not sure if that is true, but my God!

There are posters on here that can pretend that the Browns, the NFL, and posters like me are whacked.......but, the reality is that there is a consensus of who Baker is as a player and a teammate. That won't change no matter how some try to spin it. And again, I am NOT including you in that group. I just think you are a fan of the guy and there is nothing wrong w/that.

Only saying this at face value of the sentence.

This isn’t a 100% true statement. Franchise and Transition tags.

Well, I wouldn't go as far as I like Baker. To an extent, yes. But other things contribute. You know, like his injuries this past year.

My "we got the shiny new toy/turd " comment was more of a statement of "look what we got". Like a kid at Christmas.

We've got people say DW is awesome. We're well on our way. Dude hasn't played a down in over a year, and it could be close to 2 years, really.

I'm a Browns fan. Always have been, and always will be. I'm old enough, and smart enough, to say "SHOW it, don't talk about it."

I'm done with the hype. Shoot, when we got OBJ, had Jarvis, Chubb, a great o line, had Kareem..............I was sky high with optimism.

I shall never again be sky high with optimism again unless and UNTIL they do it.

Wife got me a Baker Jersey over a year ago. I've worn it once. so, to say I love baker is wrong. I like our qb/players and will root and cheer for them and the TEAM.

(I've also told my wife to never again buy me a jersey of any player until after they've finished their career, and been successful, in Cleveland)

Well said.

Hang in there, arch. Maybe one day we'll find the promised land.

LOL...........ain't it crazy how loyal so many Browns fans have been? We are the guys you want beside you in a dark alley.

Hang in there, brother.

Amen... I've been burned enough... my next jersey will be Joe Thomas...

I've just got a Landry and a Chubb jersey. Couldn't resist and would wear them proudly -- even if they changed teams.

Sadly, as we continue this long arduous journey, I've started (meaning over the last ten years lol) buying custom jerseys... for the buddies I've lost along the way. The dudes that I drank beers with from the 80's, 90's and forward while we shared a game and solved all the Browns problems. Had to put a close friend on one last year "Jackson 67" for one of my BFFs that went way, way too soon. Even sadder, I'll likely have to switch jerseys every quarter to give them all a taste of our first Super Bowl. Dark alleys, lonely bar stools after those tough losses in the late 80's, but someday... SOMEDAY... "promised land".

i keep going with does baker get 230 mil. or does watson....someone was gonna get paid.

There is that option. I think the franchise is around 25 mil. Transition a few mil less. I am not sure anybody wants to pay that. If so, I don't think they would balk at his current salary.

In the end, any deal will have to include some sort of extension. If he doesn't want to play for a team, he doesn't have to agree to sign.

That is his power play, but one that could become career limiting. He needs to be smart in the way he plays his hand if some team steps forward and wants him to sign a 2 year extension to a incentive laden contract..

The Browns have enough cap space, around 22 million atm, while still paying Mayfield, that they can afford to sit and and wait it out. After June 1, they will add another 9.5 mil in space due to the release of Hooper. This would force other teams (Pittsburg, Seattle, Carolina) to make decisions to trade, instead of waiting for the Browns release Mayfield.

I think it has to do with the timeline. Though it's true the Browns can hold on and wait - are they willing to take the backlash that will come with it? Do you let Baker participate in OTA's or camp or do you order him to stay home while you're paying him not to practice? Mayfield has 18.9M reasons to wait it out plus he basically has a "no trade clause" if the deal is contingent on an extension. Like I said, the Browns "screwed the pooch" and Baker has the power to make life difficult for the Browns. IMHO, the longer the Browns play this cat and mouse game the less value they will get from moving Mayfield. I wouldn't be surprised if Mayfield and his team haven't already weighed the options on not playing in 2023 because the Browns won't trade him. Collecting 18.9M in 2022 only to be a FA in 2023 to go wherever you want with the look of mistreatment by the Browns might be the best option. This would be especially true if the Browns suffer though a poor season due to the Watson suspension being significantly longer and Brissett performing poorly while Baker sits.

I asked this before and i don't think it was answered. Can you actually order a player to stay home if he's under contract and being paid to play football? If not, it could make for an uncomfortable situation where Baker could force his hand if the Browns want to avoid a media circus.

j/c

The agenda posting on here is nauseating. I've not read ONE SINGLE POST where the author was trying to state that Baker is "better" than Watson...not ONE. The reality is, that Watson is very, very ,very likely a better QB than Baker. Only a select few are trying to make it seem as if that is even the debate...it's simply not...and even if it were...it DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE. More on that below.

There has been more BS floated on this board about "Baker the Person" by people who have never met the guy, never heard a player B&M about the guy and flat out make accusations with absolutely ZERO evidence to back it up - other than what they want YOU to believe. In two decades on this board I have read ONE poster whose opinion I believe when it comes to the inner-workings of the Browns and that is GM...he has consistently been correct in those matters...while also seemingly being very careful to not be seen as someone that cannot be trusted with sensitive info.

In situations like this...no player is going to come out and vocally support nor trash a former-yet-current teammate...no one...trying to piece together the meaning or intent of one's silence is agenda-posting at its worse.

The supposed lack of interest in the trade market is yet-another example of the agenda driven BS we've had to endure since Baker was drafted. He is recovering from significant-if-not-major surgery. He couldn't pass a physical today if the Steeler doctor's were checking him. The Browns have replaced him with a $230 mil guaranteed guy after giving up (3) 1sts, a 3rd and (2) 4ths. The Browns have made it very clear that they are D-O-N-E with Baker. The Browns FO has painted themselves into a corner...with a rabid dog...and with a self-inflicted flesh wound...all through their own doing. They are staring at the likelihood of paying to get rid of Baker...not because he sucks...but because teams know that they have screwed the pooch here...they hold absolutely no cards in the game.

Posting BS about Baker's "trade value" while NOT mentioning ^ is as dishonest as posting about Baker's '21 season without even hinting at the injury or the ridiculously awful pass-catching weapons at his disposal...and I mean disposal as most all are now gone. There are things about Baker's game to be debated...lots of things...they aren't nearly as sexy though as making up %^&$...and now they simply do not matter.

It is very easy to appreciate what Baker brought here in the (4) years where he endured more BS than Tom Brady has endured in 20+ years...while understanding that that time has passed and a new "era" is upon us...while not even debating that Watson has been a better QB than Baker. It is easy to be very disappointed in the FO for how they handled this obviously-desired change while simultaneously liking what they've done overall. It's not so easy to sit back and think (and be honest) about where we were pre-Baker and what we've endured WITH Baker while getting ready for yet-another re-start (hopefully not re-build)...the agenda BS only makes that more difficult.