After that it seems like it is all opinion based upon need or BPA.
I know a little about maybe the top 50 in this draft. Really a little. I have concentrated on guys who we might go after. First when we had pick 13 qnd now 44.
So I have looked at receivers, edge, DT, and I looked at the quarterbacks but only to a degree.
The guy that I believe that is underestimated is Desmond Ridder. Most analyists have him as qb 4. Behind Pickett, Willis, and Corral.
My reasons are. He is a four year starter and a four year winner. Every year he played. He got better.
He took a small program a long way. He is a excellent athlete with good size. 6'3" 215 lb. He ran a 4.52.
He has a good arm. Not elite but he has no problem making any throw needed.
He is a mature married guy with a child. He is a respected leader. In four years his completetion average is 62.1. He has thrown 87 td's 28 int's.
His record is 44-5. never lost a home game 26-0.
He is currently the only active FBS player with 10,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing. He is a pass first guy but can run fast.
The knock on him is ball placement and to a degree accuracy.
When I watch his tape. I see a lot of things I really like and only some small things to clean up. IMO Malik Willis has the biggest upside.
But I like Ridder best of the quarterbacks in this draft if you are looking for a guy who could start the soonest.
I don't like any of the QBs in this draft, but then again, it's almost impossible to evaluate how collegiate qbs will translate to the NFL.
Here are two guys I think that might be underrated at positions of need for the Browns.
From PFF:
DT DEVONTE WYATT, GEORGIA Last season, Georgia’s defense was ridiculous, stocked full of athletically gifted NFL-caliber players. Players like Jermaine Johnson II even had to transfer away from the program just to get the opportunity to showcase their play.
Because of all of that talent, attention seems to be getting drawn away from Wyatt, who generated the best PFF grade of any defensive lineman on the team and the second-best grade of any Georgia defender.
While Jordan Davis could get drafted in the top half of the first round because of the potential of the player he could become, Wyatt is already a wrecking ball. He was the best-graded defender at the Senior Bowl and is a prototypical player in terms of traits.
WR SKYY MOORE, WESTERN MICHIGAN Despite his season-ending ankle injury, USC's Drake London will likely be the first receiver off the board and could be a top-10 selection. Western Michigan’s Skyy Moore earned the same 91.8 PFF receiving grade and an even better overall grade this past season.
Moore racked up 1,291 yards and 10 touchdown receptions, averaging 3.40 yards per route run, and he was another player who answered any potential athleticism concerns with an impressive performance at the combine.
The 5-foot-10, 195-pound pass-catcher ran a 4.41-second 40-yard dash and put up solid numbers across the board. His 10-yard split was in the 99th percentile and matched the kind of quickness he consistently showed on tape.
The NFL chases “special” wide receiver prospects, but some of the best receivers in the game don't have cheat-code type size, speed or explosiveness. Instead, they are simply peerless craftsmen at the position. That’s what Moore can bring to the table, but evaluators seem to be overlooking him so far because of that focus on measurables.
Cameron Thomas, DL, SDSU seems to kind of be the forgotten man in this edge class. He's stylistically similar to a JJ Watt-lite. Not quite the length and power, but not many do. Can push back OTs with one arm and gets the other in passing lanes. Has inside-outside versatility. There is a small level of competition concern in the MWC, but he faced frequent double teams and still produced. He was a 3 time 1st team all conference award winner. He hurt a hamstring early on at Senior Bowl practice and has subsequently missed most of the testing circuit. He did do some testing recently, but the hammy still isn't 100%. He had some 1st round hype at one point, but he's been kind of out of sight, out of mind.
With the fact that we added his DL coach to our coaching staff, he might be a name to keep in mind.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
With the fact that we added his DL coach to our coaching staff, he might be a name to keep in mind.
This is the kind of stuff that makes this site invaluable. Thanks for pointing that out. I would imagine that if this guy starts to slip in the draft, that same Dline coach could give the proverbial 'thumbs up' and sway the draft room.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Cameron Thomas, DL, SDSU seems to kind of be the forgotten man in this edge class. He's stylistically similar to a JJ Watt-lite. Not quite the length and power, but not many do. Can push back OTs with one arm and gets the other in passing lanes. Has inside-outside versatility. There is a small level of competition concern in the MWC, but he faced frequent double teams and still produced. He was a 3 time 1st team all conference award winner. He hurt a hamstring early on at Senior Bowl practice and has subsequently missed most of the testing circuit. He did do some testing recently, but the hammy still isn't 100%. He had some 1st round hype at one point, but he's been kind of out of sight, out of mind.
With the fact that we added his DL coach to our coaching staff, he might be a name to keep in mind.
Thomas was in the conversation for being a top 50 selection in January, but as you already pointed out missing out on the testing circuit has seemingly dropped his stock at least in the eyes of the media.
His tape did nothing for me. Those measurables sounded nice. Play on the field was a quick no. Possibly could be depth we add late in the draft. If he's playing major snaps, though, we'll be in trouble I think
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I mistakenly thought he might be available in the second round or maybe late first. I like him better than Davis because I think he is more complete, but he probably won't be available for us.
His tape did nothing for me. Those measurables sounded nice. Play on the field was a quick no. Possibly could be depth we add late in the draft. If he's playing major snaps, though, we'll be in trouble I think
His tape did nothing for me. Those measurables sounded nice. Play on the field was a quick no. Possibly could be depth we add late in the draft. If he's playing major snaps, though, we'll be in trouble I think
He is a day 3 prospect with upside imo.
I wish his teammate Will McDonald IV hadn't gone back to the Cyclones for his senior season. He's the one that popped for me while watching Uwazurike's highlights.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Could be a poor man's Garret. More likely, another raw freak athlete that never reaches his potential. Cleveland is a horrible place for developmental players. But he does look like a decent pick in mid-rounds.
I wonder if we can bring him in as a local prospect and not have him count against the top 30 visits? Also curious what his RAS would be at TE since he's a converted wide receiver (and Stefanski's fascination with TEs.) I know a guy that used to coach at Canton McKinley, might have to try to get the scoop on Robinson.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Probably just the nature of being a highlight video, but I thought I saw quite a bit of questionable tackling technique.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Why is Cleveland a horrible place for developmental players?
In the past his statement is accurate imo. We have had such a high turnover in the coaching staffs and front office personnel that it was hard for players to stick, let alone develop here. I think that has changed with the stability we are starting to see.
Why is Cleveland a horrible place for developmental players?
In the past his statement is accurate imo. We have had such a high turnover in the coaching staffs and front office personnel that it was hard for players to stick, let alone develop here. I think that has changed with the stability we are starting to see.
It's kind of sad that an FO and coach going into year 3 together is thought of as stability. I get where you're coming from, but still can't help but shake my head a bit.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Matt "Punt God" Araiza is the most underestimated player in the draft.
This is the correct answer.
For some reason a guy playing a position that you hope sees the field as rarely as possible being projected in the 3rd round potentially seems unlikely to have been underestimated.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Matt "Punt God" Araiza is the most underestimated player in the draft.
This is the correct answer.
For some reason a guy playing a position that you hope sees the field as rarely as possible being projected in the 3rd round potentially seems unlikely to have been underestimated.
You maybe right. I love his potential but IMO he will need to go to the right team and sit at least a year.
But there is no doubt about his potential. Great kid with all the physical tools
The offense he came from though was for the most part a single read with RPO. He needs some good coaching and year to watch and learn.
Like Allen in a few years he could be something.
I was just watching NFL Live and Matt Miller said Desmond Ridder has caught the attention of many recently. I brought him in this thread but about a month or so ago. I was thinking the Browns should take a shot at him in the second round. Now the thinking is he may go top 20.
I do think he is underestimated. I am not saying he will be great. But I do believe he is closer to starting in the NFL than the others.
Matt "Punt God" Araiza is the most underestimated player in the draft.
This is the correct answer.
For some reason a guy playing a position that you hope sees the field as rarely as possible being projected in the 3rd round potentially seems unlikely to have been underestimated.
I first had to diagram this sentence .... but this is a good point.
I dunno... we seem to be pretty decent at developing oline talent. D'Earnest Johnson has developed well. Delpit, despite injuries and some initial tough-sledding seems to be making the jump. Greedy doesn't seem to be, but still has some time.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
For some reason a guy playing a position that you hope sees the field as rarely as possible being projected in the 3rd round potentially seems unlikely to have been underestimated.
I first had to diagram this sentence .... but this is a good point.
It was rather a monstrosity of a sentence.
Speaking of monstrosities, Micheal Clemons has some pretty monstrous reps. He can bully tackles. Unfortunately, the Texas A&M DE isn't particularly consistent. Some draftniks give him a 3rd round grade, but I hadn't really heard anything about him. He is older, has been injured earlier in his career, and has some off the field concerns. However, the tools are there to develop into a quality starter as a power rushing DE. Video of his pregame speeches make him look like a guy that his teammates rally around.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
In early March Ridder was the quarterback that I wanted to take in the second round. At that time we had pick 13. Ridder was considered the fifth quarterback. The more I watched his tape the better I felt about him.
It is interesting to see him rise up the draft Boards.
I hope he does not end up with the Steelers. Quarterbacks are really hard to forecast into the NFL. Obviously the NFL has a hard time picking qb's.
Ridder is one of those guys that at first does not jump off the screen. Then you keep looking and he does everything well.
NFL COMBINE & PRO-DAY RESULTS VIEW >> OVERALL RATING: 82.8 / 100 GAME PERFORMANCE WEIGHTED RATING HANDS: 57% SHORT RECEIVING: 68% INTERMEDIATE ROUTES: 71% DEEP THREAT: 73% BLOCKING: 54% DRAFT GRADE: 3RD POSITION RANK: #17 COLLEGE GAMES: 26 COLLEGE SNAPS: 812
DRAFT PROFILE: BIO Kevin Austin Jr. was outstanding at North Broward Prep in Florida where pulled in 76 receptions for 1,782 yards and 23 touchdowns in his junior and senior years. After being graded a four-star recruit he received a number of offers from big schools but after a long decision process opted to join Notre Dame.
Austin's college career was a disappointment until 2021. He only made 5 receptions as a freshman in 2018 and then in 2019 was suspended for the entire season. 2020 wasn't much better as he battled through injuries and finished the year making just one catch.
2021 was a major improvement where Austin finally had a chance to showcase his talents. He made 48 receptions, 888 yds with 7 TDs, and had a very good 104.1 QB rating when targetted on the season. As a result, he received a Phil Steele All-Independent First Team spot and a combine invite.
SCOUTING REPORT: STRENGTHS Outstanding athletic talent with an ideal frame for an outside receiver at 6-2 and 200lbs Put on a show at the combine where demonstrated his explosiveness as he ran a 4.43 40 and made a 39-yard vertical leap Explosive quick-twitch player who accelerates quickly, eats up a corners cushion, and has a top gear to beat DBs deep Has a long frame and supreme vertical ability to be an outstanding red zone threat and make circus catches Has the size, length, and strength to defeat press jams. Can make the spectacular catch. A decent open-field runner with some agility and the ability to break tackles. Has top focus and does a nice job catching the ball in stride. A decisive runner who doesn't go down easily Further on in his ability than you would expect considering his limited experience - excellent using head fakes and has a nice stutter step Often used on deep routes, getting separation down the sideline or over the middle on crossing routes A versatile weapon, proving to be effective inside in the slot and outside on the perimeter. Makes plays at all levels of the field. Generally reliable receiver capable of making difficult catches in traffic over the middle or one on one down the sideline A long-striding athlete with good playing speed. Usually sure-handed with the concentration to snatch the ball out of the air Strong runner with the ball with enough agility to make defenders miss in the open field
SCOUTING REPORT: WEAKNESSES Comes off the snap high and upright which can result in him being easy to jam at the line of scrimmage Does not always use his hands to secure deep throws, allowing the ball into his pads and chest. Has only a single year of college production (in 2021) and so must be viewed as a developmental prospect and far from the finished article Has had a history of injuries - two surgeries on left foot, which led to him missing 2020 While he has had run a decent route tree at Notre Dame - he tends to round them off and they will need to become sharper at the next level Needs to work on fighting for the ball better and can be outmuscled at the catch point
SCOUTING REPORT: SUMMARY Kevin Austin Jr. is an interesting prospect who has moved up draft boards following his impressive combine performance. He possesses outstanding athletic traits, most notably deep speed, leaping ability, and overall explosiveness, and during the only year where he had a chance to showcase his talents, he looked outstanding in 2021. However, the fact that he has very limited experience mainly due to injury issues can not be overlooked and as a result, will be looked at as a risky prospect to take early in the draft.
Austin has the potential - assuming he can stay healthy - to become a pro-bowl level impact player at the next level and therefore expect him to hear his name called in the third or fourth round of the 2022 NFL Draft.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Ok a little draft sleuthing - In our video of building the Browns we showed our coach acting as the DC for the Shrine game. In a snippet of his practice he went out of his way and told a player that he really was doing well and impressed.
This young man was #99 and had a Notre Dame helmet. I am pretty sure it was Myron Tagovailoa-Amosa. #95 at Notre Dame
It won't surprise me if we get him late rounds
We are signing Clowney???
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I wasn't able to figure out how to display Kevin Austin's RAS card. But the score is 9.96. He did have a choppy career at ND because of an injury early in his career. He missed some time again around 2019. For the past two years, he's been progressing. Otherwise, I don't see any obvious flaws in his game. This seems very much like a DPJ type of prospect to me.
But aren't there dozens of 250 lb linebackers that fly like the wind every year, and again every other year. I mean that is just the male athlete, athleticism, on it's own, can be found a lot of places, but the love of football, the success in football, and the little things can be camouflaged or disguised so that every athletic guy who hits hard looks the part, but isn't. It's easy to find another guy who runs and hits. It harder to find the ones who know where to run and how to hit.
( I remember a news report from another city when a player was being cut and the reporter said, "He chose the wrong door and several others beat him onto the jet way as he boarded the plane to leave town."
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Sign me up for Leo Chenal.... 250 lb Linebacker that flies like JOK and played at a Big10 school? Yeah, I'll take that.
Think I'd rather go Brandon Smith from Penn State if that's the prototype you're looking for. Similar size and athletic profile, but longer and younger (though both only 21.) Smith looks more fluid in space to me. Maybe a bit less technically refined, but that's Penn State versus Wisconsin coaching. That and I think Chenal has more buzz, so a team can probably get Smith later.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I have not seen a thing on him. I will watch for him.
Every year someone slips through the cracks. Last year I wanted JOK. As the draft unfolded. I was shocked that he was getting passed over.
I never thought in million years that we would get him where we did.
I bet this year there will be someone in the second round on down that later all will think. How did this guy get past everyone?
The key is to be in a position to take on a player like JOK he had no obvious fit in any defense but could make any defense better, but how? That was the rub we could wait and see and develop to a point but most teams think in terms of perfect fits JOK wasn't that and yeah I would think similar chances will continue to come about.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
There could be some positions that Browns fans are not tracking. OT, Safety, linebacker, TE. Most are focusing on wide receivers and defensive linemen.
But if the team has a really high grade on a player and that position is not considered a need. Then your pick comes up and there is this guy sitting there.
Do you just take the highest guy at a position of need? I say no. Take the value pick.
Sure you want to address the need. Come back and do that. Don't turn down a player who is highly ranked because you want a different position.
I always say take the BPA unless you have absolutely zero need, no upgrades needed, and no room for another player in that position group, and that doesn't happen very often.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Experts like Belichick, Ozzie Newsome, and others have addressed that you draft for the long-term and not the short-term need. That is such a simple and logical way of looking at things. You are obviously going to make some mistakes in drafting, but it's best to build your program like you are going to be there forever. I think some teams make even more mistakes when the prioritize need over BPA because jobs [front office personnel and coaches] are on the line.
I think BPA is a very good policy...I also think Need is a PART of the formula towards that calculation. The trick is obviously determining how much weight "need" plays into calculation. Vers makes a great point in drafting for the long term. Another part of that calculation. Depending on the weight you apply those parts of the calculation...the BPA on your board at the time of the pick may or may not be a position of need. I say you still take him. Top of your board.
I am a little confused Peen....In your situation...the team does not have any needs, etc....so why wouldn't they draft BPA in that situation?
It was mentioned concerning JOK that people were concerned how he would fit in their defense and that may have been one attribute of several that contributed to his slide. In thinking about the BPA calculation. Scheme is definitely a part of that. However, I do not think the Browns place a high of weight on that part of the calculation as other attributes. I really think that some of the attributes that have the highest weight are (in no particular order) past performance, physical floor/ceiling, and intangibles such as intelligence, being a football junkie, and coachability. I honestly think the "type" of player is higher on their board than "need"...This is especially seen in the later rounds. Need obviously carries some weight. Greg Newsome and other high picks demonstrate this...But in all honesty...I do think the other traits I mentioned are more important to them. And I think those traits are also higher on their scale than scheme. I think the Browns are more willing to adapt a scheme to players rather than the reverse. Scheme obviously is part of the calculation...I just don't think it is as weighty as other traits.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
I am a little confused Peen....In your situation...the team does not have any needs, etc....so why wouldn't they draft BPA in that situation?
Maybe i didn't explain it enough, or yeah, maybe you are just confused.
I did say it doesn't happen often, and may not apply this year. It can happen at QB. You have your clear #1 guy and your clear #2 guy is young, good, and under contract for a few more seasons. In a case like that you can say you have zero need. If it is a bit later in the draft, you are probably going to pass on selecting some QB who might be at the top of the board. If early in the draft, you are probably going to trade down and not select the QB.
On this team, I don't know if there is a position where we could say there is no need at any position, even QB. We have a clear #1 starter, but then we have 2 guys on 1 year deals and neither has distinguished themselves as a very good QB.
As you alluded to, draft board for teams aren't like looking at the PFF top 150 players. Teams also draft for impact. Impact might not be totally biased for a need but teams do like to get some impact out of drafted players. We may not need a guard, but if the right guy is there who can play better than one of the back-up, that impacts the overall quality of the team. When your team gets better, you are mostly drafting for back-ups and most every position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
He most certainly has a strong leg. There are no videos showing him placing the ball. Is that because his long kicks are so impressive or that he doesn't have any placement highlights?
The other issue is he takes two long steps. I worry that in the pros he will be too slow to get the punt off and have too many blocked kicks.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
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