DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Redistricting.

I've commented before that Gerrymandering by either party is flat wrong ... what they have done in FL with Desantis is particularly nauseating.

And here is a good article that highlights the issue.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-extreme-bias-of-floridas-new-congressional-map/

Politicians should not get to choose their voters.

Ohio Voters Pass Gerrymandering Reform Measure

By
Sam Levine
May. 8, 2018, 08:52 PM EDT | Updated Nov. 5, 2018

The Ohio plan had overwhelming bipartisan support in the state legislature when lawmakers approved it for the May ballot.

Ohio voters approved a ballot measure on Tuesday that changes the congressional mapmaking process, a move proponents say will rein in excessive partisan gerrymandering.

By passing the ballot measure, called Issue 1, Ohioans amended their state Constitution to create four different pathways to draw congressional districts. The new process will go into effect in 2021, when the next round of redistricting takes place.

Ohio voters approved a ballot measure on Tuesday that changes the congressional mapmaking process, a move proponents say will rein in excessive partisan gerrymandering.

By passing the ballot measure, called Issue 1, Ohioans amended their state Constitution to create four different pathways to draw congressional districts. The new process will go into effect in 2021, when the next round of redistricting takes place.

Click link to read more: link


Ohio voters voted to end Gerrymandering back in 2018 and the Republican party is simply giving the finger to Ohio citizens who made their preference clear and legal..!

Now the Ohio GOP is giving the finger to Ohio's Supreme Court and the Court's GOP majority is allowing it to happen. WHAT THE HELL ARE OHIO VOTERS SUPPOSED TO DO..?

After the way you Dems cheated in the Presidential election you have the Gall to complain about redistricting!

The problem is, 888, that nobody trusts anybody else. A state where republicans control things and the map favors them, fear that if a “neutral map” is approved and next election the dems take control they will ramrod a partisan map thru and the repubs will be out of control. And states with dems in control feel the exact same way. So no one will commit to anything.

Your article was about Florida but I read recently about New York making some changes that would result in 2-3 republican seats switching. Both parties have done it forever. I suppose one could go with the “elections have consequences “ quote from President Obama or maybe “to the victor goes the spoils” from somebody. But politicians in control will be reluctant to give it up.

Independent redistricting commission. Other states have nice things. We can, too.

Is this misinformation or pure ignorance? It's up to you, the reader to decide.

You will have to concoct a Sydney Powell or Rudy G. story, and toss in some pizza pedophile conspiracy theory, just because you can’t admit the Mr Braggadocios lost.

No Trump lost because he was a terrible person, President and candidate , and other Republican candidates did better than he did.

I just won’t let your lie go unchallenged.

While seemingly pragmatic - it's a cop out.

Anything that is not in the best interest of the public at large should be challenged. Gerrymandering is so bad it needs addressing.

It's trolling. Plain and simply - anyone with a functioning brain knows the election was won fairly by Biden, there have been lots or words spewed by Trump to the contrary - but other than a handful of individual cases largely initiated by Republics (Meadows is a nice high profile example) there was no voter fraud that changed the outcome of the electing . . . . . Interestingly that's exactly what trump's own hand picked commission determined when he was in power.

Here we go again with the same old crazy talk touted by Trump and his many minions...

SHOW ME THE PROOF OR SHUT UP

Why don’t you ask yourself this question. Why would a political party go to their state Supreme Court and ask them to rule that a signature, matching or other wise, not be required for an mail in ballot to be accepted, aside from the obvious answer of course.

Ask another question. If both the U.S. Constitution and the state constitution identify the legislatures of the separate states as the responsible party for establishing election laws what happens if the state executive or the state judiciary put new rules in place that do not comply with the rules the legislature has passed. In other words, they circumvent the will of the duly elected legislature. Why should votes be counted that do not comply with the legally passed election rules??

So trying to install new electors to overturn the actual vote of the people is what you're talking about? Like they tried to do in Michigan?

Just a typical non response. Are you talking about the people who spent weeks trying to get electors to vote against the popular vote of their state?? Or are you talking about the people who tried to activate the 25th amendment for no apparent reason before the President took office. Or are you talking about people, like you I am sure, who lied for 3.5 years or so about our President being a Putin puppet, a Russian asset, a commie in the White House. You know, the people who spent years trying to overthrow the results of the election.

Don't feed the trolls.

You remind me of the U.S. Naval Observatory master clock. You can always be depended upon……………..to say something dumb.

I'm talking about this Q....

Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw fake electors plot in 7 states

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/poli...s-rudy-giuliani-fake-electors/index.html

You need some help and a less evil source of the whispering that are being fed to your ears. But I'm sure that won't reach you.

Please explain. What is wrong with anything he wrote?

You remind me of a 3rd grade drop out. But I can see how turning 15 and hitting puberty in 3rd grade would be hard.

He sounds like he's fresh from a QAnon meeting Fate, that's what! You guys regurgitating that crap don't realize how MOST of America view what you are saying. And it's not just people like me. There are lifer republicans here that will tell you the same. And don't be snide or coy, because we both know you are plenty smart enough to see it yourself, if you take the blinders off and actually look. Plus, he's a troll. You are not. At least you weren't. I don't mind bumping heads in good conversations, and plenty have seen me do it here, but I'm done entertaining the stupidity bro. Don't play dumb, just don't bring that garbage here because you know we won't let it go. As a Vet, former Republican (diehard until 2008), and an average American man, I can't believe what the party has become or how far right it has moved. I know you see that much.

Lol.

We don't realize how Americans view us for saying a signature should be supplied with a ballot???

Or that election laws should be followed???


Seriously dude, I don't even know how to respond to your madness sometimes.

You know, maybe people being forced to stand in lines to vote for 12 hours in 90 degree heat should be allowed to pass out water too. BOO FN HOO. Stop pointing fingers fate, your side produces more BS than actual bulls. And you could be having real conversations, but you are hanging with trolls now bro. I'd happily agree with you on some of this, but Trumpy bear doesn't get to eat his cake, wear his cake, and shove it in his diaper too. Conversation is a two way street bro, not a look at this crap we made up, you now have to accept this ish as fact, or we will throw a violent insurrection… or act like tough guys with big guns to intimidate lawmakers... Give it a rest bro. You used to be more rational.

And surely to hell you can see, after all the court cases, that Biden won fair and square. The election was one of the most secure in our history, BOTH sides have admitted. So, I would agree about signatures, but really, the only fraudulent voting that has been reported by any credible news outlet has been 100% that GOP voters were committing it. smh.

Also, just for the record, I never even bother reading SBs article he posted because I saw the source is the same one that I mocked him for already. That site is ridiculous and QAnon as hell.

Lol. Everything that doesn't fit in your tiny little circle of just, pure and true is QAnon as hell. And ahhh, the credible news sources say the GOP voters were fraudulent. Someone call Geraldo.

You're a walking, talking meme... you've got to be a blast at parties!

Yeah ok fate. Have a good night.

Which election laws? You realize that election laws are like all other laws. They change, they're different from state to state and are often molded and tailored by the party in power. I mean if you're trying to say shouldn't we agree that the laws should be what Republicans support they should be and all election laws should be the same in all 50 states why don't you just say so? But then don't turn around on the other hand and yell about how you uphold states rights to self govern when it comes to gun laws, abortion laws and things you promote on the other hand. States rights isn't a heads I win tails you lose proposition.

jc

Posted this a few weeks ago, but crickets from the left.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/31/politics/new-york-map-struck-down/index.html

That's odd? Why would anyone think gerrymandered redistricting would be a good thing no matter which party was doing it?

At this point, we are WELL into the willful ignorance stage.

Well pit, you are only responsible for complying with the election laws of the state in which you are registered to vote. Laws vary from state to state but that is irrelevant.

Of course all laws, including election laws, can be changed. How are they changed pit? The same way they were enacted, by the legislature. Not by the governor, not by the judiciary. Are you aware of any legislative changes made leading up to 2020 election?

What we should agree to is that elections should be held based upon the rules the legislature has passed. Plain and simple. Interestingly, as recently as 20 years ago, election integrity was a bipartisan issue. In 2003 or 2005, jimmy carter led a commission on that subject. Bipartisan group. They agreed that the greatest risk of election fraud was in mail in ballots. Increase mail in ballots increases the risk of fraud. There was bipartisan concern then. It is only recently that one party lost interest in election integrity.

So I will ask again. Why would one political party want to eliminate a requirement for a signature on the mail in ballot that matches the signature on file? Honest question. No q anon.

Honestly because it has worked so well in other states for years now. In Oregon it's worked well for decades. In those states voter fraud has never been an issue. And these voter laws do end up in court. It's actually judges who have the final say on election laws by overturning a bias legislature when the judge feels the laws or redistricting maps aren't according to existing law.

What you seem to ignore is that during the pandemic when requirements were lessened, no mass voter fraud was found. It simply wasn't an issue. So conversely why is it one party pushes it to be harder to vote when it's already been shown that isn't needed?

Ohio Republicans saw draft congressional map days before Democrats, court filings show

Jessie Balmert
The Columbus Dispatch
LINK

Hours before Democrats saw a details of the Republican-drawn congressional map, Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose texted a copy to conservative congressional candidate Madison Gesiotto Gilbert.

LaRose sent the map to Gilbert at 2:07 p.m. on March 1. About three hours later, Senate GOP mapmaker Ray DiRossi emailed the congressional map proposal to Democratic staff members with this request: “Since this is being made available before being made public, please do not share until the Commission meeting.”

LaRose's text message, revealed as part of a lawsuit against Ohio's congressional map passed on March 2, is one example of the access that Republicans on the Ohio Redistricting Commission had to the mapmaking process, access not extended to their Democratic colleagues.


[img]https://www.dispatch.com/story/news...ssional-map-days-before-dems/7451561001/[/img]


The map, which is being used on the May 3 ballot even as it's challenged at the Ohio Supreme Court, would give Republicans an advantage in at least 10 of the 15 congressional districts. Only two districts, based in Cleveland and Columbus, would be "safe" seats for Democrats.

Democrats have complained about being cut out of the mapmaking process, often asked to vote on maps for legislative or congressional districts shortly after seeing them for the first time.

A version of the map was introduced on March 1. Senate Democratic spokeswoman Mallory Golski said Democrats first saw a draft of the congressional map on March 1, but it wasn't the final version passed the next day.

Contrast that with LaRose who said he was aware that a congressional map was being drafted between Feb. 26 and March 2, according to his responses to attorneys' questions in the lawsuit. He first saw a draft on Feb. 27, texting Auditor Keith Faber about it that day. LaRose received a copy of the proposed plan on March 1 – the same day as Democrats.


LaRose also kept Gilbert in the loop as the map was approved on March 2.

“One more word of caution and you know this, the maps aren’t final until they are," LaRose wrote in a text message that morning. "I’ll keep you posted if there are any changes made before we pass the map today but of course there’s still always a chance they could get struck down again by the courts. That’s just a risk you need to calculate for in your decision making process.”


After the map passed, Gilbert swapped races from the 9th congressional district, where she was set to challenge Democratic Rep. Marcy Kaptur, to the 13th congressional district, which has no incumbent. Gilbert was later endorsed by former President Donald Trump and could face Democratic state Rep. Emilia Sykes in November.

When did drafting begin?
Court filings indicate Republicans were working on a congressional map draft even earlier. On Feb. 2, House GOP mapmaker Blake Springhetti sent an email titled “Proposed Plan Information” to Ohio House Speaker Bob Cupp, R-Lima; his chief of staff and Rep. D.J. Swearingen.

Ohio lawmakers punted mapmaking duties to the Ohio Redistricting Commission in early February, unable to get the needed votes for a congressional map to take effect right away. The proposed plan that Springhetti shared on Feb. 2 was never introduced as a bill.

The Ohio Supreme Court is reviewing the congressional map to determine if it meets voter-approved changes to curb partisan gerrymandering. Any decision is expected after the primary.

What's happening with state House and Senate maps?
Meanwhile, Democrats are asking Republicans on the Ohio Redistricting Commission to work with them to craft new state House and Senate districts. The Ohio Supreme Court ordered the Ohio Redistricting Commission to submit a new plan by May 6 and the commission has yet to meet.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio filed a motion Tuesday, asking that commission members explain why they shouldn't be held in contempt of court for not working on legislative maps. A federal court decision removed much of that incentive by forecasting which maps they would impose on May 28 if the commission didn't act.

Jessie Balmert is a reporter for the USA TODAY Network Ohio Bureau, which serves the Akron Beacon Journal, Cincinnati Enquirer, Columbus Dispatch and 18 other affiliated news organizations across Ohio.

Republicans just CANNOT NOT CHEAT. And they are ruining Ohio, the country, and world with their fascist BS.

You do realize that Oregon requires a mail in ballot to have a signature that matches the signature on file don’t you. There is a date they have to be postmarked by and a date the ballot must be received by. Those are the rules set by the legislative body. They are the law. So should ballots without a signature be counted?? The state says no. What do you say?

And again. Why does one party want to eliminate the signature requirement??

It's no fair... not everybody has access to a pen! Of course you wouldn't know that, living in your ivory tower!

I get why you act like the poorest among us are capable of doing everything you do in the exact same way. And y'all act like the poor are just an inconvenience to be dismissed from your mind because your life isn't impacted by extreme poverty. It reminds me of old conversations about the homeless when we used to say, “but there is welfare to help people like that”, only to later learn the law made a permanent address necessary to get that aid. Everything from producing a license, to travel to polling stations that y'all intentionally make distant from the poorest folk, to restricting what refreshments can be distributed in hours long voter lines; all GOPer measures to prevent the poorest from voting, but you won't admit that. And GOPers feel a need to degrade anyone who points these things out, like they are being victimized. Your arguments are just souless and uncaring, but that's the GOP. I think a party that constantly wants to end FOOD programs for the elderly and children, wants to end social security and medicare/medicaid, and wants to end democracy to preserve bigotry; well that party is just a crap show from the jump and deserves everything bad that is said about them.

Well, if, IF, that was what the republican party was about, you'd have a point.

As it stands, you are msnbc or roids.

What states want to eliminate matching signatures? I agree that there should be matching signatures. I agree there should be a deadline for ballots to be mailed by. But I do have a problem trying to say that an entire party wants what you are describing. I don't think that's true. Are there some states that are more left than others? Sure there are. Neither party is a one size fits all. You have moderates and extremists in both parties. Could you show what states are trying to pass laws that do not require a matching signature? Most all states also have deadlines for ballots to be postmarked by as well. I'm not saying the extremes you're suggesting don't exist. I'm saying I don't think it's as wide spread as you are making it out to be.

Your man in office is ruining Ohio and the country at large.

The old, “I know you are but what am I?” response. The devolution of America! Thanks to a swath of dysgenic right-wing Americans, representing a small minority, the country is going to hell in a handbasket.