DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Is Homlessness A Crime?

And I am not saying camping on teh sidewalk or the steps to the state capitol building etc should be legal. But this isn't the way to fix it.

But you asked "Is homelessness a crime?" and pointed to this article about this bill.

is it likely more people who are homeless would get caught up in this, but that is NOT what you said. You said the bill makes it a crime to be homeless, which it does not. You were asked several times and you insisted that the bill makes it a crime to be homeless. It does not. You were told what it said, you believed it due to confirmation bias and you thought yourself clever for it all. You are wrong, it does not make it a crime to be homeless.

Is that simple enough or do I need to work harder to come up with smaller more common words for explaining it.

I'm not the only one who sees through your BS. You know it does or are foolish enough that you can't see it. That's a you problem.

So if someone is homeless and they find a spot in a shelter to sleep they will be arrested?

Homelessness won't be a crime. This isn't even a hard one to see.

I did say that it is more likely to catch those that are homeless and not people who have homes, but it does not criminalize homelessness.

If you can't find anything to do but add further hardships on the homeless, you are a pathetic human being, IMO. True leadership would look to resolve the homelessness instead of hiding it out of sight from the affluent. Ask yourself WWJD? Christians where are you? Empathy is free and a desirable trait in all adults. Maybe it should be a prerequisite for office, but that would end the GOP.

Only the blind can't understand that homeless shelters are overrun leaving many homeless to sleep on the streets. People with homes and apartments aren't forced to do that. Try making sense for a change.

Homelessness is usually defined by whether you have a permanent overnight dwelling. This bill would not make it illegal to not have a permanent overnight dwelling.

It makes it illegal to solicit from public roadways and to camp on public roadways. No where in the bill does it make the state of homelessness, the lack of a permanent overnight dwelling, a crime.

You hound people about reading comprehension, yet you continue to exclaim this bill is making homelessness a crime. It is not. Period. Full Stop. No one will be charged for not having an permanent overnight dwelling.

Your real issue is you can't be wrong, well, you can't admit to being wrong even if you are. Insulting people and trying to belittle them because you are wrong doesn't help. Try just admitting you were hoodwinked by a emotional headline, you will end up a better person for it.

People with a permanent overnight dwelling do not sleep in these places. Only homeless people do. The fact you're too blind to see it or too obtuse to recognize that this bill targets homeless people is a you problem. It's obvious who this bill targets. It's not even worthy of a discussion.

Your assertion is that it makes homelessness a crime, not that people who are homeless are more likely to be caught up in this. I have said it appears that people who are homeless are more in jeopardy from this, but it does not make the state of being homeless a crime. There is a very big difference in those two concepts.

People who are not homeless most certainly could get caught up in this. The act of "laying a bedding" in a public space is enough to trigger this bill. That could ensnare a teenage couple looking for a place to get down on a beautiful summer evening.

You have also completely ignored the solicitation portion of this. Here we have people who sell bottled water, newspapers and other sundries on street corners in traffic. This bill would make that illegal. They are not homeless, but they also could be ensnared by such a bill.

Your premise was flawed, you bit on an emotional headline and you are all in on not discussing you were wrong, which is the only thing you seem to care not to discuss.

I'll see if I can make it better for you...... It's a law that targets only the homeless people that would make their need to sleep on the streets a crime.

Is that better?

Except it doesn't "target only homeless people". I gave you two examples of other groups that could be ensnared, which you ignore as it doesn't meet your agenda.

Since you can't believe you are wrong and I am right on this, go into the bill, copy and paste all the portions that make homelessness a crime. Please leave out the portions that make a behavior that could be associated with homelessness and only quote the relevant parts that have the lack of overnight permanent dwelling being a crime.

Or just capitulate and admit this does not make not having a permanent overnight dwelling, homelessness, a crime.

You two should take it to PMs. You know, get a room.

Naw man.. I am ok.

A gross overstatement.

Again it seems all you have derision, and no actual facts.

Does this mean you are capitulating the idea that this bill makes being homeless a crime?

It most certainly makes the homeless a direct target of the bill. Which makes what the homeless are forced to do since they have no place to live a crime. Yes. It's quite obvious.

So you admit you were wrong?

It does not make homelessness a crime. it is more likely to affect homeless people, but it does not make the state of homelessness a crime. We've covered this before, several times. It is really quite obvious.

It makes the actions of homeless people a crime. It targets homeless people. It's a bill aimed at targeting homeless people. Now you can twist around that all you like. When it's the homeless who have nowhere to sleep and you write a bill that targets where homeless people are forced to sleep, it's a bill that makes the actions of homeless people a crime.

If makes similar action by people with homes a crime too. It does not make homelessness a crime, unless you think the homeless are so wretched and degenerate (as a whole, not individuals) as to not be able to follow a law.

You keep trying to twist free of this but you said it makes homelessness a crime, it does not. It may target homeless people (that was not your assertion), it may make actions typical to the homeless a crime (that was not your assertion) but it does not make the state of homelessness a crime.

For someone that professes a high level of proficiency with English you really do struggle with actual meaning of words.

This thread is dead.

People with homes have a place to lay their heads at night. Where do you propose the homeless sleep? Or do they just need to stay awake?
The law doesn't make being homeless illegal, but it makes it impossible not to break the law if you are.

People with a place to live have no need to nor would choose to sleep on sidewalks or beside roadways. Only homeless people do. Dear Lord man.

So having another look at this it appears it only applies to:

It is unlawful for a person to engage in camping:
(1) On the shoulder, berm, or right-of-way of a state or interstate
highway; or
(2) Under a bridge or overpass, or within an underpass, of a state or
interstate highway.

There are multitudes of public places not covered by this. Parks. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Also, your original article seemed to indicate this was a felony, which you took bait and hook.

Notwithstanding § 39-14-414, a violation of this section is a Class C
misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of fifty dollars ($50.00) and community service work
not less than twenty (20) hours nor more than forty (40) hours; except, that a person who
violates this section shall receive a warning citation for a first offense. In lieu of a fine
and community service, the court may require a person convicted under this section to
remove litter from the state or local highway system, public playgrounds, public parks, or
other appropriate public locations for not less than twenty (20) hours nor more than forty
(40) hours.

No felony, no $3000 fine.

You really REALLY did not do your homework on this. It is all right there.

BTW.. I've known drunks with homes that slept on a sidewalk or two.

Again this is not was you asserted it is. It is a public nuisance type bill, nothing more really.

I'm sorry you don't understand what actual impact this bill has. It's you who haven't done your homework. Try and keep up next time.

So you pointed to a bill that does not make it a crime to be homeless so you could then say there is a news article that says it does?

You really will twist and twist and twist.

You had a chance to show me, I asked multiple times, that there is a crime of homelessness. You have failed to do so.

Again, show me the phrase in the law (not a news article about said law), or section/subsection of an actual law that makes it a crime to be homeless. You won't because you can't show me something that does not exist.

I get it. You don't comprehend that changing the language as was pointed out is how it does that. I get you only see things as black and white. I get that you seem to lack the understanding of how politicians word these bills is just as important as the bill itself. You can't comprehend that's the very way they do things.

But that's okay. I have broad shoulders. Hopefully in the future you will overcome your limited understanding of what this bill actually intended and accomplished and how this happens all the time. Until then I'll pray for you.

And I get you still haven't shown me chapter and verse on where it maes lake a permanent overnight domicile a crime, because it doesn't.

But het, fall back to being insulting because you've got no actual game. You are wrong, you know you are wrong so you toss insults.

Put up or shut up as they say, show me where it makes being homeless a crime. The actual state of homelessness, not the fact that people who are homeless and more likely to be ensnared. You do understand that those are two different concepts right?

No one is getting a $50 fine and community service for being homeless.

Great insightful argument.

So you don't actually have a cogent point to make? Don't actual evidence in the form of wording with location in the law that says it makes being homeless a crime? Again, you have nothing so you ridicule and laugh.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one since it seems from the comments you're the only one who doesn't get it. Get it?

No, I don't get illogical "I said it's so so it's so" type arguments.

The best way to shut someone up and prove them wrong it to show it. You can't. It isn't there. The is nothing in the bill you posted that says it will be illegal to be homeless

"is homelessness a crime?" no it isn't

Get your next insult out I suppose since you can't seem to admit being wrong.

Concrete thinker