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#1945637 05/19/22 01:38 PM
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A part of the previous debate was that all of these incidents combined would be considered as a first infraction if some of these cases are found to be valid by the NFL. What I think those people may not be considering is that the NFL may decide to consider punishment on a case by case basis. There is nothing that says they must lump them all together. As each case unfolds the NFL may determine if that case is valid or not and impose punishment as they deem proper. That would mean that each case they find worthy of suspension would be the first infraction, second infraction, third infraction and so on.

I'm not predicting that is what will happen. Neither i nor anyone else knows how this will pan out. But being so positive that the NFL will lump them all together verses deciding each as a separate infraction based on the merit of each case is certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Last edited by Referee 3; 05/19/22 03:10 PM.

Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Deshaun Watson Admits Massage Therapist Cried After Session, per Report

During a pre-trial deposition last week, Deshaun Watson admitted that one massage therapist did cry after their session, but he said he did not know why, according to USA Today.

He left and later sent her an apology text after the session, which read, “Sorry about you feeling uncomfortable. Never were the intentions. Lmk if you want to work in the future. My apologies.”

The Browns quarterback is facing 22 civil lawsuits filed by massage therapists, each detailing graphic accounts of sexual harassment and sexual assault that occurred during massage therapy sessions. The accounts range from Watson allegedly refusing to cover his genitals to the quarterback “touching [a plaintiff] with his penis and trying to force her to perform oral sex on him.”

Per a partial transcript obtained by USA Today, the woman’s attorney, Tony Buzbee, asked Watson, “But you know why you sent that text apology afterwards?”

“Yes, because she was teary-eyed,” the quarterback replied. “And I was trying to figure out what was going on. So, I assumed that she was uncomfortable in whatever reason. And we talked about working in the future. And so, I said, ‘We can work in the future. Just let me know.’ And then I sent my apologies as whatever reason she was teary-eyed for.”

According to USA Today, last week’s deposition was concerning Ashley Solis’s case, who was the first woman to file a lawsuit against Watson last year. She did not reply to Watson’s message, per her filing.

A trial reportedly will not occur until after February, but the quarterback does have other pretrial depositions scheduled for next month, per USA Today.

Although the civil lawsuits are still ongoing, Cleveland traded for Watson in March and signed him to a five-year contract worth a guaranteed $230 million. The Cleveland Rape Crisis Center saw more than 2,300 donations come in wake of his signing, totaling more than $125,000. They received more than 1,000 donations within the first 24 hours of the trade.

The quarterback previously faced multiple criminal complaints; however, he is not facing charges following two separate grand jury hearings.

On March 11, a Harris County grand jury returned nine “no” bills on nine criminal complaints against Watson. A Harris County prosecutor said that the decision concluded criminal proceedings against him in that county, and Watson was traded shortly afterward. A grand jury in Brazoria County declined to charge Watson on a 10th count on March 24.

Watson denied assaulting, harassing or disrespecting any woman during his introductory press conference with the Browns.

He could still face discipline for violating the NFL’s personal conduct policy. According to multiple reports, league officials will meet with the quarterback this week.

As the civil deposition proceedings continue, here’s a recap of what has happened on and off the field since Watson’s last snap.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/05/17/d...therapist-cried-after-session-per-report

Since the other thread was locked, I'll ask again.....

For the sake of argument let's say that Deshawn and his attorney Hardin are telling the truth about watson and Solis discussing other sessions. The question becomes did that conversation happen before or after the incident? It wouldn't be hard to imagine it happening prior to the incident. What we do know from the testimony is that she refused to respond to him after the session concluded. So we know that she was not wishing to have any further contact with him after the incident. Now why would she be willing to discuss future sessions before the incident yet not after it? That certainly doesn't sound like nothing happened. If what watson's claim there was a converstaion about future sessions, obviously something took place that changed all of that.

And one other point that happened in his testimony in March. He made the claim that nothing happened with any of the accusers because he had a girlfriend. Later it was admitted he did have sexual relations with some of these women. He did claim it was consensual but that remains to be seen. So much for the "I have a girlfriend" lie. So we had him say nothing happened then admit something actually did happen on more than on occasion. It goes to show he isn't beyond lying in these cases. Do you apologize for things you didn't do or having no idea what you're apologizing for?


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j/c:

There are some videos that were in the article that you won't be able to view, but it's still a good read if folks are interested in learning more about Watson, the football player.

Quote
Galina: Why Deshaun Watson was the NFL's best quarterback in 2020



By Seth Galina
Feb 15, 2021

As much as we all try to separate the performances of different positions from their teammates in order to isolate production, players with stronger surroundings will always fare better than those without.

We’ve spent the past month praising Aaron Rodgers for his MVP 2020 season and bowing down to Tom Brady for his playoff run to a seventh Lombardi Trophy. And why shouldn’t we? Those two were the highest-graded quarterbacks of the entire 2020 season. They deserve praise. One could even argue that Rodgers’ season was one of the great quarterback campaigns of the PFF era (since 2006).



Of course, both signal-callers played on teams that allowed them to showcase their talents. Brady’s Buccaneers happened to boast a top-five defense to continually keep him ahead of the game in terms of field position and game state. Plus, he had the best receiving corps in the league.

Rodgers was given opportunities to find open receivers via Matt LaFleur’s wide-zone and play-action scheme, and he had arguably the best receiver in the league in Davante Adams. It’s hard to go back and look through the list of the great quarterback seasons of the past 15 years and find examples where quarterbacks did not have other elite factors going in their favor.

That’s why I’m ready to make the argument that Deshaun Watson was not only the best quarterback of 2020, but also that he had the best season of the past 15 years — and maybe ever.



Absolutely nothing went the Texans' way last year, and Watson still routinely played at an elite level. Former Houston head coach and general manager Bill O’Brien traded his team's best receiver, yet Watson played better than ever before. O’Brien was fired midseason, but it didn’t phase the quarterback. He played with a terrible defense, a terrible running game and no star receivers and put up the 19th-best regular-season passing grade of the PFF era (91.2). He’s one of 29 quarterbacks to finish a regular season with a 90.0-plus passing grade.

Those 29 quarterback seasons are generally regarded as the greatest individual campaigns of the past 15 years. Tom Brady’s 2007, Peyton Manning’s 2013 and Patrick Mahomes’ 2018 are all included in this group alongside Watson’s 2020.

Better surrounding factors allow a quarterback to stay away from negative plays. Being down in games forces the quarterback to attempt more difficult passes. Not having a running game puts the quarterback in more ominous down and distances. Not having receivers who can separate forces the quarterback to hold on to the ball.

And yet, Watson torched the league despite having nothing going in his favor.

We can start with the overall records for each of those 29 quarterbacks. If a signal-caller is having an elite year, chances are his team is doing well. Twenty-six of the 29 quarterbacks’ teams won at least 10 games that season. The quarterback is the most important factor, but you can assume that other factors were involved to get to that plateau of wins.

Twenty-eight of the 29 quarterbacks’ teams finished the season at .500 or above. The only team to finish below that threshold is the 2020 Houston Texans and their four wins. Better quarterback play has resulted in wins more often than not. Watson, even while being a part of this elite club, did not have any team support.

For starters, he didn’t have much of a defense. The Texans finished 31st in defensive expected points added per play in 2020. Only the 2006 Indianapolis Colts defense was worse from a league ranking perspective, as they finished 32nd the year that Manning carried them to a Super Bowl win.

Worst defense EPA ranks among 29 QBs with 90+ season grade in PFF era

QB Defense EPA Rank
25. Tom Brady, 2011 28th
26. Patrick Mahomes, 2018 28th
27. Andrew Luck, 2016 29th
28. Deshaun Watson, 2020 31st
29. Peyton Manning, 2006 32nd

Watson is also part of a group of 10 players who notched 90.0-plus passing grades despite their defenses finishing below 20th in the league in EPA. Philip Rivers’ 2010 season in San Diego topped the list, as the Chargers' defense finished second in the league that season.

The Texans also couldn’t run the ball. They finished 31st in 2020 in EPA per rushing play. The next worst unit was the 2019 Seattle Seahawks, who finished 28th in the league while Russell Wilson still produced a 90.0-plus grade. In fact, in 17 of the 29 seasons, the rushing EPA per play of the elite quarterback's team was in the top half of the league. At the top is Manning's 2007 Colts rushing attack, which finished first that year.

When it comes to surrounding talent in the passing game, Watson doesn’t fare as poorly but does find himself in the bottom-third in a couple of categories. The Texans' team pass-blocking grade ranked 19th among the 29 seasons. Aaron Rodgers’ 2014 season was at the top with a 92.1 team pass-blocking grade. And unsurprisingly, Rivers’ 2018 season was at the bottom with a 59.7 cumulative grade.

The 2020 Texans team receiving grade was 20th in this group. Andrew Luck’s 2016 season saw the Colts finish with a 75.5 receiving grade, the lowest in the sample, while the 2016 Falcons and Matt Ryan’s great season finished at the top.

From a macro scheme perspective, we can look at play-action rate and screen rate to see how protected these quarterbacks were. Play-action passes, whether they be RPOs or otherwise, tend to define the reads for a quarterback and create distractions for defenders that a regular dropback does not.

PFF has play-action data going back to the 2012 season, and Watson again comes in pretty low. For this, I used league rank in terms of percentage of throws that were off play action because of how play-action rates have risen throughout the NFL over time. The 2020 Texans sat at 28th in the league this season in play-action rate. Only Brady’s 2020 season and Ben Roethlisberger’s 2015 season were lower relative to the league at the time. The 2016 Falcons finished first in the NFL in play-action rate that year.

PFF's screen data goes back to 2011, and it provides similar results. Watson’s Texans placed 21st in the league in screen rate — 17th-lowest of the 23 players in this selection. Rodgers' 2020 season had him throw the second-highest rate of screens in the league, while Rivers’ 2018 was last at a league rank of 29th that year.

Watson’s 2020 season is at or near the bottom in almost all team categories. River’s 2018 campaign is rough from a scheme and offensive line perspective, but he played with a top-10 running game and defense. Luck’s 2016 season and Wilson’s 2019 campaign are almost as rough as Watson’s 2020.

A big part of PFF grades is the opportunity to have negative plays. If you are 2007 Tom Brady throwing to Randy Moss, your opportunity for negative plays is small. If you are 2016 Matt Ryan, who is not being asked to perform straight dropbacks often, your opportunity for negative plays is smaller. Rodgers playing behind David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, T.J. Lang, Bryan Bulaga and Corey Linsley in 2014 limited the pressure he faced, and therefore, there was less of a chance to have a negative play.

It’s not to say those seasons aren't great — they are, undoubtedly — but Watson’s season, without any semblance of team help and still grading at that incredible level, might be the most impressive.

I’m less concerned with the supposed scheme issues than the talent surrounding Watson. The complaints about lack of play-action chances are definitely founded in reality. With Bill O’Brien coming from coaching Tom Brady, that’s the scheme he brought with him to Houston. No one complains when Brady’s coaches don’t call play action enough for him, because he can drop back and complete passes without it at an elite level.

That’s what happened with Watson this year. He didn’t need play action. Watson was the third-highest graded passer without play action, screens and RPOs this season, behind only Rodgers and barely behind Mahomes. Could the Texans have gone away from the “all-stick route” offense? Maybe, but Watson was playing at such an elite level that he was getting completions on any concept drawn up for him. These macro scheme complaints don’t really hold up when talking about the elite players in the game. Does Jared Goff need play action? Yes. Did Watson require it? No.

Did this stop me from making the same complaint? Also no.



Watson has always had this level of play in him, but like so many other quarterbacks, performing at such a level for an entire season proved difficult over his first three years in the league. Specifically, Watson's floor games of past seasons completely vanished in 2020. Over the first three years of his career, Watson had 12 games where his passing grade dipped under 60.0. He had no such games in 2020. And getting his turnover-worthy play percentage down to 2% from 3.6% in 2019 was part of that.

In the Texans' Week 3 matchup against the Steelers, Watson engineered a superb two-minute drill that showed everything he’s about right now. The Steelers would end the season ranked second in defensive EPA per play, and Watson tore them up. Getting the ball back with 1:14 left in the first half at their own 25, the Texans took five plays to get into the endzone, with Watson going a perfect 5-for-5.



We start with a quick hitch route to Brandin Cooks. Watson really could throw to either tight end Darren Fells or Cooks. On this concept, with the cornerback off, you are reading the first low defender. He immediately buzzes outside, which opens the throw to Fells, but Watson never believes he can get out fast enough to get under Cooks' route, either. He throws as soon as he finishes the end of his drop and puts the ball on Cooks' outside shoulder, where it should go.

On throws that we chart and bucket as “stick” throws, Watson’s adjusted completion percentage jumped from 76% over the previous two seasons to 92% this past year. His grade on those attempts was good enough for second-best in the league. He took what was given to him and kept the chains moving.



The Texans try to start picking up chunk yardage, so they call their sail concept hoping to find Randall Cobb in some space. The Steelers end up in Cover 3, but with the flat defender getting wide immediately off the snap, Cobb settles into the void instead of staying on the run to the sideline. The read for Watson is to quickly check if the outside receiver can win on his deep route and then to read that same flat defender for a high/low with Cobb and the running back.

Again, with the flat guy so wide, it creates space for Cobb to sit into. Watson reads it the same way and delivers into the void. He hammered Cover 3 this season to the tune of a 93.0 grade, which ranked second-best in the league during the regular season.



The Steelers are starting to get nervous and show like they are going to pressure Watson and play man coverage behind it. They end up rushing only four while playing man with a low-hole defender. Watson is looking to his right early in the drop and sees the player covering Fells run and open a window for Cooks on the in-breaking route.

The problem is that the Texans' offensive line has trouble picking up a stunt along the line of scrimmage, forcing Watson to come off his spot. When he’s ready to throw again, it looks like that low-hole defender spooks from throwing to Cooks, so he takes off into an opening and gets outside the pocket before finding Fells on the sideline for another first down.

Plays like this are where Watson really took his game to another level. We’ve always known he can move around outside the pocket, but he was throwing dimes when on the run in 2020. His grade improved from 67.6 on “scramble drill” plays in 2018 and 2019 to 94.5 this season, which led the league.



Again, the Steelers decide to blitz and play man coverage. Watson opens his dropback by looking to his right, but the man coverage on his wide receiver and the outside leverage on Fells by Cameron Sutton eliminates those two routes.

Watson moves his eyes to the left and finds Cobb again, this time on an in-breaking route, for another first down. Watson has always been good at these throws we chart as “horizontal leads.” He produced the third-highest grade in the league on these types of throws beyond 10 yards. He also led the league in the regular season on throws that we chart as “next read” — where his eyes had to work back across the field.



The touchdown throw is a beautiful drop in the bucket to Will Fuller V. The Steelers are showing man to man with one-high safety before the snap, and as long as that safety doesn’t fly over to the sideline, Watson is going to take his shot to Fuller. In rhythm. Beautiful throw. Six points.

This was Watson the whole season, even if the wins and traditional box score stats didn’t come with it. He took his game to the next level, and it’s why whenever you see potential trade packages for him, the return is astronomical.

If this is who Deshaun Watson is going forward — not a one-hit wonder — there are maybe four teams in the NFL that don’t need to take a look at him. Watson was the best quarterback in the league in 2020, and he arguably had the best season from a signal-caller in the past 15 years.

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I don't believe anyone, or almost anyone has questioned his ability as a football player. Or even as a top tier QB for that matter.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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j/c:

I am really, really excited to see what our offense is going to look like w/Watson at qb. I think that Stefanski is a very bright offensive mind. I love the offenses that come from the Shanahan/Kubiak tree. The zone blocking techniques are amazing. It is my hope that we stay w/12 personnel as the package we run most often. Of course, we can now add in some 11 personnel if we want and will probably run some 13 personnel.

The thing that has me so excited is that we have a great OL. They are one of the best in the entire league and PFF had them ranked #1 in 2020. Add in two great backs w/Chubb and Hunt and teams have to really put men in the box to stop the run. Now, w/Watson at qb, teams will get burned if they commit too many guys to the run. Watson is a good pocket passer who can read coverages. Not as elite as Drew Brees, but he's certainly good at it. Then, think about this, we run some boots w/Watson. The Browns ran the 4th most boots in the entire league last year. But, teams are going to be in a world of hurt if they are geared to stopping our running game and in odd coverages, such as Cover1, Cover 3, or Cover 5 because they will be trailing the receivers and Watson will kill them by running for 20 yards or so.

I'm telling you guys that defensive coordinators are going to be staying up late trying to find ways to combat our strengths. Watson, this OL, and RBs combined w/Stefanski's scheme is going to give teams nightmares.

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Agreed and a quick point about Baker. I like Baker and think he can still be a good QB. Baker may not like what our FO did to him and that's fine. He has a right to feel how he feels. However, if Baker is honest with himself he has to understand that our FO is doing what it has to do to make our Browns better. It did by signing DW. Furthermore, If Baker is more honest with himself he should realize DW is a better QB than he is. DW has a better arm, can run much better goes through his progressions better and is probably more mature. I would have tried to upgrade too if I was the FO. We can't worry about one players feelings being hurt when we now have a chance to go toe to toe with any other team and make a deep playoff run. It's a business whose success is predicated on winning. That's what they are trying to do.

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Vers, some of us don't care how good he is if he's truly guilty of this crap. I've read a lot about him and before this scandal, he sounded squeaky clean and a stand up citizen, as well as a top QB. But does that matter if he did these things? It certainly doesn't to me.

As a matter of fact, reading who he was before all of this made me decide to wait and give him a chance to prove his innocence. I mean we all know he crossed the creepy line with so many women involved, but creepy can be a lot of things and not necessarily disgraceful. But if he forced himself on these women, or sexually harassed them, he shouldn't play IMO. And I damn sure won't root for him.

And just for the record, I've been a Baker guy, but he's gone, or as good as gone, and I'm over that bit. So going forward, this is all about DW and how this pans out for me.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 05/19/22 10:13 PM.

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You would think that when a woman walks out of the room crying prior to her finishing the massage and you acknowledge that you saw her crying that you might think you crossed the line. It looks more and more like celebrity power over average person. I will wait for more reports on the depositions being taken but this first one doesn't look good. However, I'm sure we'll read more Watson support posts than WTF posts because winning football games trumps all here but at least in this first deposition, Watson clearly has appeared to cross the line even if he says, "he couldn't understand why she was crying and abruptly ended the session."


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I have no problem if some people won't root for Watson or even the Browns. It's an individual decision. On the other hand, no one is going to tell me who to root for, no matter how many threads they make on the subject. One other thing, I think it's okay if I talk about Watson and the Browns from a football perspective in the Pure Football Forum.

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Looks like for some folks, it's ability over character.. We've not seen Watson play in over a year. I suspect he'll be a little rusty..

Just to ask,, How many times has a Watson led texans team beat a Mayfield led Browns team? Just wondering


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One other thing to consider is that the vast majority of these leaks are being done strategically by Buzbee. I mention that NOT diminish the pieces of evidence themselves, but I think it's significant that we are getting a very slanted view into these depositions.


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Originally Posted by steve0255
You would think that when a woman walks out of the room crying prior to her finishing the massage and you acknowledge that you saw her crying that you might think you crossed the line. It looks more and more like celebrity power over average person. I will wait for more reports on the depositions being taken but this first one doesn't look good. However, I'm sure we'll read more Watson support posts than WTF posts because winning football games trumps all here but at least in this first deposition, Watson clearly has appeared to cross the line even if he says, "he couldn't understand why she was crying and abruptly ended the session."

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but it certainly sounds to me that it is a lack of conscience on his part.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's an individual decision. On the other hand, no one is going to tell me who to root for, no matter how many threads they make on the subject.

Could you tell me who it is that has done that? Who has told you who to or who not to root for?


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Several Deshaun Watson accusers sit for interview with HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel

As the NFL moves inevitably toward deciding whether to suspend Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson for some or all of the 2022 season, or whether to wait until the 22 civil lawsuits pending against him have resolved, some of his accusers will be speaking out.

“Several” of the women who have accused Watson of sexual misconduct during massage sessions have been interviewed by HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel. Soledad O’Brien serves as the reporter on the story.

Per a press release from HBO, the women “detail the alleged abuse they suffering and share their reactions to” Watson’s $230 million contract with the Browns.

The show debuts Tuesday, May 24, at 10:00 p.m. ET.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ith-hbos-real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/


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Gumbel sort of gets on my nerves but he is a well respected journalist.... this should be more than salacious gossip.


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True, but does that offset accusers going on air while their respective cases are still winding their way through the courts? Or is this just a strategic response to Watson being able to pause the proceedings so he can play a season of football?

I'm much more inclined to fall on the "this is shady" side, but I guess fair-is-fair.


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I think I would agree with you IF there were a gag order in place. That would mean that it's wrong and in fact illegal to put this sort of thing out there. But there isn't a gag order in place. Both Watson and his attorney have the very same right to do the same thing if they so choose. I consider the fact that if you look around, Watson is the celebrity here. As we can see people are quick to defend him and have no problem painting the scenario that their lawyer is some kind of scum bag and these women are nothing but a bunch of low life's out for a cash grab.

I don't see how these women sharing their experiences as something nefarious but more to help balance the scales. Both Watson and his attorney have had no problem continuing to claim his innocence in the national media. Very little by contrast is known about these women.

Edited to add. There's no doubt we should take these interviews with a grain of salt since we will only be hearing one side of things IMO

Last edited by PitDAWG; 05/20/22 04:13 PM.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
Gumbel sort of gets on my nerves but he is a well respected journalist.... this should be more than salacious gossip.

He is? he was good as a sports reporter if that is what you meant. Once he got on The Today Show, not so much.

Then again, cred usually is handed out if the reporter pretty much agrees with your take, or you with theirs. There is very little unbiased reporting any more. Be it sports or politics, all of it is pretty slanted.

I have no clue on where things stand with Watson. I am just going to sit back and take it all in and see where the chips fall.


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The actual interview of these women will be done by Soledad O’Brien who is a female reporter for the show. I'm sure Gumbel will add his opinion and narrative at the end of the segment but he will not be conducting the interviews.


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Yeah, I'm guessing the best thing to do is ignore what they have to say.


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Aren't gag orders only done for criminal cases? Honest question, as that's my assumption but I don't know for sure.

I'm MUCH more used to the "we won't comment on on-going legal proceedings" line.


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Often times the quote you mentioned is done by law enforcement or those being sued or charged in a criminal case. In watson's case I think it would be foolish for him to do such an interview. He has already claimed nothing happened with any of these women because "I have a girlfriend". Then later his own attorney admitted he did have sexual relations with some of the women. In his latest deposition he admitted in the one case the woman was crying when she left. His attorney has also claimed, as did Watson they discussed future sessions. Yet the evidence shows that after the incident she refused to have any further communication with Watson. So the obvious conclusion is that they spoke of the sessions before the incident and she refused to respond to him in any way after the incident. That and he calimed he apologized but had no idea what he was apologizing for.

So at this juncture Watson granting an interview would be a crap show for him. He's already opened himself up for a litany of questions that would put him in a no win situation if he agreed to such an interview.

I'm not sure about gag orders being issued for civil cases. What I can say is unless a gag order is in place there's nothing illegal or unethical about giving interviews concerning a case.


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A judge can issue a gag order in a civil case.

I am pretty sure Watsons attorney will bring up that his client receiving a fair trial has been infringed.


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I wasn't sure about that. Thanks.


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It might be interesting to see how the answers in an interview and the depositions/trial differ. In an interview someone can say pretty much anything, there is nothing bounding them to the truth. Yes, people lie under oath but that carries the chance of jeopardy.

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All of this is interesting. All of it directly impacts the Browns. Watching all issues and sides of this should be something everyone that is concerned about the treatment of women, how it may impact the team and what the truth really is. It's hard to imagine that all of these women must be lying and the only one telling the truth here is watson. But anything is possible I guess.


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"Trying" this on HBO............eh, I'm not sure it will prove anything other than "I said".

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
"Trying" this on HBO............eh, I'm not sure it will prove anything other than "I said".

It means everything for guys like Pit. It's extremely important that others agree w/him that Watson is guilty and we should all turn on the team. That's why he keeps saying the same crap over and over and over.

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Yeah, so, I'm not getting into it. Period.

If the proof's there, go to court. That's all I'm saying. Try it in court. Period.

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j/c:

We have read many times about how the GJ not trying Watson is not an indicator of whether he is innocent or not. Some of those arguments read like they believe that Watson is guilty and so do the courts, but they don't have enough information to prosecute him. Perhaps that is true? Perhaps it is not? We don't know, do we?

I will make a prediction that the very same people who have said that Watson not being charged in criminal court will be the ones saying that Watson is certainly guilty if the verdict in Civil Court puts even one ounce of blame on him.

The Alternative Universe is a real thing.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I have no problem if some people won't root for Watson or even the Browns. It's an individual decision. On the other hand, no one is going to tell me who to root for, no matter how many threads they make on the subject. One other thing, I think it's okay if I talk about Watson and the Browns from a football perspective in the Pure Football Forum.

You are correct. I agree 100%. Just as others can and should be able to post without constant shots being taken at their perspective if doesn't align with more popular views on teams. players, etc. For example: I think OBJ was a cancer, many of my friends disagree. But as fans, we can only speculate actual events that are not publicly known to be true. So I have a right to think and express that, it might not be popular, but no fan on DT can prove me wrong, there is no proof of it any more than there is proof Baker somehow sabotaged OBJ during his time here. At least 50% of what is posted here is nothing but opinions. You can't validate or fact check those without ALL OF THE FACTS. And if somebody does say something that is factually wrong, simply pointing out the facts is way better than attacking them. Just saying.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Several Deshaun Watson accusers sit for interview with HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel

As the NFL moves inevitably toward deciding whether to suspend Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson for some or all of the 2022 season, or whether to wait until the 22 civil lawsuits pending against him have resolved, some of his accusers will be speaking out.

“Several” of the women who have accused Watson of sexual misconduct during massage sessions have been interviewed by HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel. Soledad O’Brien serves as the reporter on the story.

Per a press release from HBO, the women “detail the alleged abuse they suffering and share their reactions to” Watson’s $230 million contract with the Browns.

The show debuts Tuesday, May 24, at 10:00 p.m. ET.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ith-hbos-real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/

Something to look forward to BROWNS FANS! Thanks for this fine experience Mr. and Mrs. Haslam... Can't believe that HBOs NFL based show will be a media detractor this season too, smfh. Good thing we didn't win the HARD KNOCKS lottery this year.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 05/20/22 10:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:
The Alternative Universe is a real thing.

Translation: Vers thinks you don't have a clue as a fan because you do not align with is thinking. I find this coded roundabout way of being sarcastically negative toward other posters. You are better than this. And I expect you to call me out for the same when you see it, if you truly want to make this place better.


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Report: NFL Wants to Interview Deshaun Watson Again amid Sexual Misconduct Probe


SCOTT POLACEK
MAY 20, 2022
link


The NFL reportedly wants to interview Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson again as it investigates the allegations of sexual assault and misconduct he is facing from 22 women.

Ed Gallek and Peggy Gallek of Fox 8 Cleveland reported Friday that league investigators already met with Watson this week but are seeking another interview.

"Remaining schedule is unclear but they clearly want to complete it sometime this summer," Watson's attorney, Rusty Hardin, said.

Multiple grand juries ruled in March the Clemson product would not be indicted on criminal charges, but he could still be suspended by the league if it determines he violated its personal conduct policy.

Watson, who Cleveland acquired from the Houston Texans via trade after the first grand jury declined to indict him on criminal charges, is also still facing 22 civil lawsuits accusing him of sexual assault or misconduct during massage therapy sessions.

The Fox 8 report noted the quarterback has given multiple depositions on the cases and was asked if he believes all 22 plaintiffs are lying during one of them.

"I've never had any sexual misconduct with any of these women," Watson said. "I done told you before multiple times from day one I received the lawsuit. I never assaulted; I never harassed; I never disrespected: I never touched: no woman ever touched me, or nothing like that what these women are alleging that actually happened."

Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports reported Tuesday that all 22 civil lawsuits will likely be pushed back to next year given the steps remaining and the agreed-upon moratorium on cases between Aug. 1, 2022, and March 1, 2023.

"The manner of presentation in the cases could make the trials significantly longer than expected," Robinson reported, noting Watson's side could respond to each allegation individually if evidence from multiple allegations are introduced for individual proceedings.

Hardin told Fox 8 "there is no timetable" for when the NFL will complete its investigation, however, it seems likely the league will want to make a decision before the start of the 2022 season.




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Quote
The NFL reportedly wants to interview Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson again as it investigates the allegations of sexual assault and misconduct he is facing from 22 women.

Ed Gallek and Peggy Gallek of Fox 8 Cleveland reported Friday that league investigators already met with Watson this week but are seeking another interview.

"Remaining schedule is unclear but they clearly want to complete it sometime this summer," Watson's attorney, Rusty Hardin, said.

I wonder about the wording of this part of the article.

Are we to believe that the NFL talked to Watson last week and some alarms sounded and they want further conversations?

Or, were a series of topics already on the docket and they didn't get through all of them?

I ask because there is a difference there and I would not put it past the media and some of the Watson haters out there to want to spin the truth.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
"Trying" this on HBO............eh, I'm not sure it will prove anything other than "I said".

It means everything for guys like Pit. It's extremely important that others agree w/him that Watson is guilty and we should all turn on the team. That's why he keeps saying the same crap over and over and over.

I don't know how your screen didn't completely implode in narcissism after you hit the enter key. Must be that alternate universe that only YOU live in.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
"Trying" this on HBO............eh, I'm not sure it will prove anything other than "I said".

It means everything for guys like Pit. It's extremely important that others agree w/him that Watson is guilty and we should all turn on the team. That's why he keeps saying the same crap over and over and over.

It doesn't matter who agrees with me. I didn't bring this problem to Cleveland. I didn't create a situation that brought all of this negative attention to the Browns. I know your character prevents you from placing the blame where it belongs for those actions and you would rather blame me for talking about it. The latest statements coming from his depositions came out just last week. So nobody has been talking about that over and over again as you profess. This HBO interview story is new. So that hasn't been talked about over and over again. The fact you insist on lying about those things speaks volumes.

There will be more details that will continue to come out. More headlines will be made. And they will be talked about here. Rather than throw your regular tantrum about it you're just going to have to learn to deal with it. Or not. Just remember who brought this situation to town. It wasn't me. But it seems you have no intention of calling out the responsible party. No surprise there.

Once again you make snide comments to other posters about me but refuse to man up and address me directly. As I said before, there's a name for people who do that.


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There are things we know happened since last week. In his Friday deposition DW apologized while claiming he didn't know what he was apologizing for. He admitted the woman left crying but has no idea why she was crying. He and his attorney had claimed DW and the woman had talked about more sessions when the evidence has proven she refused to speak to him at all after the incident. So you know, as more things come to light there are more questions to answer. As it should be.


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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
"Trying" this on HBO............eh, I'm not sure it will prove anything other than "I said".

It means everything for guys like Pit. It's extremely important that others agree w/him that Watson is guilty and we should all turn on the team. That's why he keeps saying the same crap over and over and over.

I don't know how your screen didn't completely implode in narcissism after you hit the enter key. Must be that alternate universe that only YOU live in.


It's a good thing narcissism imploding hearts isn't a real thing because this board (and the world) would depopulate quickly.


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