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Groucho Marx

I don't want to get in the middle between you and Vers, but you nailed it... regardless of what anyone thinks of Baker, he worked his butt off, brought respectability to this franchise for the first time since it's rebirth.

The way the team handled this was pure trash. Absolute TRASH!

I think we all know that Watson is probably a better QB than Baker in so many areas.. But for me, character still matters,, Clearly, if it comes to a battle of character, Watson can't hold a candle to Mayfield....

And yes, Character matters to me.

Honestly - I don't think Baker's character is without fault. There are a few things he's done that most fans would prefer he had reeled his neck in - The Duke Johnson comments, the Hue stare down, recently talking about his feelings and players more interested in their paycheck than winning, publicly seeking a trade ... none of that is good. But compared to the new guy - it's better. DW publicly sought a trade because he simply didn't get to have input on a new HC. He has 24 women alleging sexual misconduct or abuse. He paid off a "Spa" owner - who was supplying these women. He's got a minimum of 66 different women lined up over a period of 17 months. Instead of just finding consensual willing Happy Endings - there's clearly a pattern, at one point at least, of wanting to coerce or manipulate the situation. We have a police officer in charge of the investigation who says the TEAM who worked the case all felt crimes were committed.

So Baker isn't squeaky clean by any stretch. But he's a choir boy in comparison. Ironically some are brutally hard on Baker - but give DW an absolute free pass. Shocker.

No he's not. What seems amazing to me is the order of people's priority lists on which is most important and how they wish to detract from the magnitude of it.

How many women have sued Baker Mayfield over real or perceived sexual misconduct.. That's what I'm talking about.

Thanks for clarifying.

Neither are examples of 'exemplary character'. Watson will need to really apply himself to turning things around here. And also: fans have very short memories.

I think many fans have long memories.

Definitely agree that Baker showed signs of immaturity on a few different occasions. I think he is thin-skinned. Hopefully he has seen that it’s in his best interest to shutty on social media.

SO, can you tell me when the last time Baker was in trouble with the Law? When was the last time he was sued by 24 women?

All players with a high motor and high desire to excel like Baker seems to have, will step on toes from time to time.. That's not a character flaw, but it may be annoying.. He's not in danger of getting suspended.

So please, quit trying to measure what DW has done to Baker....They just aren't the same thing...

While, I have differing opinions on Baker Mayfield than Vers....I certainly don't think his comment was "insinuating" that Brisset is a better QB. He is "probably" right that Brissett will "probably" turn the ball over less. He is "probably" right that his maturity may help things in the lockeroom. The point is...he has valid points. He "definitely" did NOT say that Brissett was a better QB. Any "insinuation" is an "interpretation" and "supposition" by the reader. That is on "US"...not him. And basing it on prior posts is not 100% fair. Past posts can provide some "context", but we still need to look at what was said. (Isn't looking at words as written supposed to be the society we are currently in?) Yes, we know Vers doesn't care for Baker...but that doesn't mean we have to put words into his mouth. (or into the mouths of any other poster)

Concerning Baker...we need to separate his "maturity" with him tapping into his emotions to "up his game". There is some correlation of the 2, but it is a fine line that Baker has not been always successful walking while at other times channeling it in an amazing fashion. With that said, his emotions were not, and are not, "always" a detriment in the lockeroom. And there were many that followed that energy in College and in the Pro's. I do think Brissett will turn over the ball less...but I also don't think he will throw for as much yardage or throw for as many scores. Baker is a bigger gunslinger with far more arm talent than Brissett. But in Brissett's defense...he also hasn't had an Oline and running game as he is getting in CLE.

We "seem" (in general) to keep saying the FO handled things poorly or Baker screwed this up... The point being in almost any discussion we act like our American political system and take extremes, looking for single causes to the issue/discussion at hand. Plenty of Blame placing on single entities. The reality is that is it usually somewhere in the middle...even if it could be slanted towards one side. There are always misunderstandings, that lead to a domino effect of actions and words.

The FO was placed between a rock and hard place...If they trade Baker before acquiring Watson, and then don't get Watson...they are in a REALLY bad place. But if they get Watson before they trade Baker they lose leverage in trading Baker. We do know they communicated with Baker's team. We don't know what Baker's Team told Baker. We know Baker plays his best with a chip on his shoulder(pun not intended...lol) and we can expect emotional responses and actions from Baker. I honestly believe Bakers letter to the fans was truly a "just in case" type of message...now was there misunderstanding between Baker and the FO...obviously...The FO may not have divulged the second visits, etc...and Baker may not have had the whole picture. He then makes some bad moves with his trade request (at the wrong time) and his podcast. Now is this completely on Baker....as he should have final say on his actions...but maybe they could also be a result of bad advice...This is not as simple of a case as the FO was crappy in their communication and/or Baker is immature...

And to come full circle...lets try and focus on "facts", not supposition, insinuations, and emotions. Insinuation and emotions only make the discussion worse. The discussion goes downhill from there. Opinions vary, and that is a great thing. And this is a place to express those opinions. But lets also take responsibility for our opinions. We do this by asking for clarification instead of insinuating...we do this by not attacking each other....we do this by not over-extrapolating what little is known and keeping an open mind(and if we do...we present it as an opinion, which is what it is, and NOT represent it as FACT). We do this by not jumping straight to the extremes....

Discussions on here have been tiring and exhausting and I don't come here for tiring and exhausting. I want to come here for fun, to gain new perspectives, to get news, and more importantly contribute to what should be an amazing community. But all I see is extremism, rudeness, dichotomy, and it isn't fun by ay means...

We can do better....

That was a very nice post. I'll get this out of the way. I don't think Brissett is a better qb than Baker. I would say so if I did. I'm not shy about voicing my opinions. LOL

As for the rest.......I don't agree w/all of what you said nor should I. You made a lot of great points and presented them in a civil and intelligent manner. I respect that. I think a lot of guys who don't post a lot or quit posting altogether if folks followed your advice about the board becoming less hostile and more civil. Thanks for writing your post and I won't even say which parts I disagree with. It's best to just let your thoughts stand undisturbed.

j/c...

I wonder if the "triple option" stuff is similar in nature to what Shanny does in SF w/Debo and company and/or what KC did w/Kelsey and the crew?

j/c...

He already "applied himself". that why we're where we are now. Making any attempt to think you can compare the moral situation between the two is totally off base and a crazy thing to attempt. I'd really like to know who actually thinks their character is perfect. Other than the arbiter of all things Dawg Talk that is.

Thanks for providing us w/information regarding the OTAs, Milk.

Thank you, Grateful.

The "impromptu-ness" of it seems curious. Hearing that, to me at least, seems like the team waited until the last minute to let the media know Watson was going to speak so they couldn't get their act together in time to fully gather the questions they wanted to ask. But I'm assuming the media had a bevy of questions piled up for a while anyways.

It really reminded me of the Mike Lombardi hire in the sense that Banner knew Lombardi was considered trash by the town so they announced a early Friday morning PC at the last minute on where media had to high-tail it to Berea to participate.

Perhaps.

My take is a bit different. Her report made me think that it was Watson who wanted to get out in front of things a bit. I have no proof of that, it was just something she said during the course of that piece that made me feel that way.

The press asked good questions. As the tweet shared by Grateful mentions, the biggest waffle and non-answer came when asked about the revelation that DW had offered to settle when Miami was looking to trade for him. (I think that is when he is supposed to have offered to settle). It sort of/seems to contradict some of the things DW said in the first interview - and his answer appeared to me along the lines of "Oh yeah, well that was then, this is now. That was Miami and a different legal team, and this is now" .... I think DW is in a tremendously difficult place to answer questions. And it is all well and good to be forthright in your convictions - in many ways he has to be. But in the face of the newer findings - the number of women, the pay off to the Spa Manager who was sourcing some of these women - sticking by the "I've never disrespected a woman" sounds hollow at best. Just how I see it - but I listened while working so maybe I missed some connotation.

Maybe you can put that crap in one of the many Watson threads? Seriously, how many threads to you Baker fans need to hijack to get your way? I say this because that same info is already in the Watson threads. It's like a handful of you are desperately trying to stop any football conversation by constantly trashing Watson in some lame ass attempt to bring Baker back. Baker is NOT coming back. He's done.

Who the heck was that addressed to?

* To add - Memphis's post was directly related to tough questions Watson faced. Most of the DW interview - the subject of the Grateful Tweet - was about the DW issues. And my comment about the settlement was directly raised in that Tweet/Interview. . . . ey ey ey

Well, it looks like he was talking to himself. That's a red flag.

And the only person that keeps bringing up our Ex-QB is him. Mentioned him by name 3 times in a post responding to a post about Watson's interview and the content of Watson's interview.

Stupid Kicker.


Thank you for bringing us those updates!!

Good grief! "The press asked good questions". There was not one football question asked.

You have an agenda to see this team fail. There is NO doubt of that in my mind.

FYI, trials are not held in press conferences.

Well you would be incorrect. But that's ok.

As for the "good questions" - the comment was directly in relation to the poster I replied to who was implying that the "impromptu" press conference was sprung to avoid hard questions about his legal situation.
Context is a thing - sorry you missed it.

You were certainly only replying in context to something that was already posted by someone else. But don't believe for a minute that will stop them.

j/c...