As I said, your excuses and rationalizations are hilarious.
As you have said thus it must be, as you are the arbitrator of all.
You have a pedantic point that is really meaningless in this whole debate to start with.
You have not shown that: 1) Any military uses an AR-15 over any other battle rifle in combat as a first choice. 2) That military arms are not protected arms from a second amendment perspective.
Your insistence on this point is equivalent to thinking we should regulate the color of guns to keep them from being deadly ala Bloomberg.
At the end of the day no military chooses a semi automatic arm for combat, especially a small caliber like 5.56mm, even if semi automatic is the usual mode of fire in combat. Pretty much all semi automatic arms are specialty arms, sniper rifles, door breaching, anti material arms. But you will continue to argue a meaningless point because you have nothing better to offer the discussion.
As I said, your excuses and rationalizations are hilarious.
As you have said thus it must be, as you are the arbitrator of all.
You have a pedantic point that is really meaningless in this whole debate to start with.
You have not shown that: 1) Any military uses an AR-15 over any other battle rifle in combat as a first choice. 2) That military arms are not protected arms from a second amendment perspective.
Your insistence on this point is equivalent to thinking we should regulate the color of guns to keep them from being deadly ala Bloomberg.
At the end of the day no military chooses a semi automatic arm for combat, especially a small caliber like 5.56mm, even if semi automatic is the usual mode of fire in combat. Pretty much all semi automatic arms are specialty arms, sniper rifles, door breaching, anti material arms. But you will continue to argue a meaningless point because you have nothing better to offer the discussion.
bro what the hell are you talking about? i was active duty for 8 years and deployed multiple times. throughout my career, we were explicitly taught not to put our rifles on 3 round burst unless we are being ambushed because semi-auto allows for a more ACCURATE shot. not only did we use semi-auto almost exclusively, we used the 5.56mm or the 7.62mm NATO rounds. if and WHEN we got caught in a fire fight, if you're running convoys, we aren't using our individual rifles.
were using the big boy weapons. .50 cals, M240B's, and M249's. those last two are all squad-based machine guns that we mounted on top of the gun truck, or one dude would carry mainly for suppressive fire. we not using rifles unless it's in an urban environment, and that specific environment we never used 3 round burst.
now i'm annoyed. you've gone from making some illogical arguments to straight up not knowing what the hell you're talking about.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
the way this dude is talking about weapons makes it seem like he lives in Colombia or Pakistan.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
hell, maybe Frank is some warlord living in a failed state somewhere in Africa. that's now the only way any of his arguments make sense.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
were using the big boy weapons. .50 cals, M240B's, and M249's.
I've posted here that I cannot think of one sound, logical reason for legally owning a 50. Cal sniper riffle that can literally cut a man in half at a mile.... And the answer I got was "No-one is committing mass homicides with those, why should they be banned". But then when we are talking about the guns that are overwhelmingly used in mass shootings - the argument changes to something else.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Again you miss a point. Licensing and registration infringe the right.
I do hope that was very simple enough for you.
Originally Posted by Swish
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
As I said, your excuses and rationalizations are hilarious.
As you have said thus it must be, as you are the arbitrator of all.
You have a pedantic point that is really meaningless in this whole debate to start with.
You have not shown that: 1) Any military uses an AR-15 over any other battle rifle in combat as a first choice. 2) That military arms are not protected arms from a second amendment perspective.
Your insistence on this point is equivalent to thinking we should regulate the color of guns to keep them from being deadly ala Bloomberg.
At the end of the day no military chooses a semi automatic arm for combat, especially a small caliber like 5.56mm, even if semi automatic is the usual mode of fire in combat. Pretty much all semi automatic arms are specialty arms, sniper rifles, door breaching, anti material arms. But you will continue to argue a meaningless point because you have nothing better to offer the discussion.
bro what the hell are you talking about? i was active duty for 8 years and deployed multiple times. throughout my career, we were explicitly taught not to put our rifles on 3 round burst unless we are being ambushed because semi-auto allows for a more ACCURATE shot. not only did we use semi-auto almost exclusively, we used the 5.56mm or the 7.62mm NATO rounds. if and WHEN we got caught in a fire fight, if you're running convoys, we aren't using our individual rifles.
were using the big boy weapons. .50 cals, M240B's, and M249's. those last two are all squad-based machine guns that we mounted on top of the gun truck, or one dude would carry mainly for suppressive fire. we not using rifles unless it's in an urban environment, and that specific environment we never used 3 round burst.
now i'm annoyed. you've gone from making some illogical arguments to straight up not knowing what the hell you're talking about.
So you used your automatic rifle as a semi automatic like I said but you want to know what I was talking about? Maybe you posted before reading.
Shall not be infringed was written in an AMENDMENT. perhaps you should do your research and find out what an amendment is.
The 2nd amendment does not give you the right to own ANY style of weapon, it does not protect you from owning any kind of ammo, and it damn sure doesn’t give you the right to accessories.
Like honestly dude just say you care more about your gun than actual lives. You certainly aren’t protecting anyone except you. Hell you not even protecting your immediate neighborhood.
Every right has restrictions on it. By your own ridiculous logic, even a background check before purchase is unconstitutional. Notice how you don’t come in any other thread and go hard in the paint in defense of any other amendment but the 2nd? You do realize there is no one amendment more important than the other, right? You do realize the entire constitution must be protected for you to even care this much about a single amendment, right?
You know what. This is a waste of time. You’ve clearly sent the message that if the cost to own your precious guns is the blood of children, you won’t lose any sleep over it.
Frank just told every parent who lost their child to gun violence “F those kids, I love muh guns!!!!”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
13 mass shootings took place over this weekend alone, leaving 18 dead and 72 injured
mloh@businessinsider.com (Matthew Loh) - 4h ago link
At least 13 mass shootings occurred in the US between Friday evening and Sunday evening. So far, 18 victims have died and another 72 have been injured in incidents across the US. Among the victims were children as young as 12, including a 14-year-old girl who died. At least 18 people were killed, and 72 more were injured this weekend in mass shootings across the US.
The 13 incidents come in the wake of several high-profile shootings over the last two weeks that have reignited the national debate around gun rights and safety.
Insider has based its tallies on data from the Gun Violence Archive non-profit group and multiple media reports. The Gun Violence Archive defines a mass shooting as an incident in which at least four victims were shot, excluding any shooters.
At least five of the shootings this weekend took place in a public area, while at least three were carried out at graduation parties. Of all 13 incidents, the youngest reported injured victim is 12 years old, while the youngest fatality was a 14-year-old girl.
Here's what we know about the 13 mass shootings over the weekend.
Victims were run over by fleeing cars in Chattanooga, Tennessee Fourteen people were hit by gunfire at a nightclub early Sunday, and three more were struck by vehicles as people fled the scene, according to Celeste Murphy, Chattanooga's police chief, per The Associated Press.
Murphy said that two people died from gunshot wounds, and another died after being hit by a vehicle.
According to Murphy, 16 of the victims were adults, and one was a juvenile; several of them are still in critical condition.
Authorities said that multiple shooters were involved in the incident and that an investigation into the shooting is ongoing, per the AP.
It's not yet clear what the motive for the shooting was, but police believe it was an isolated incident "in which one or more of the victims were targeted," according to CNN.
Panic on a public street in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Multiple shooters opened fire at a popular entertainment district in the South Street area of Philadelphia on Saturday evening, authorities said, according to multiple reports.
"At this point, we don't know whether or not the altercation that took place was between a group of individuals, or if this was tied to another group or affiliation," said Philadelphia Police Commissioner Danielle Outlaw, per the outlet.
Five guns were used in the incident, Outlaw said. One of the shooters was wounded by police and escaped, while another is thought to be one of the persons killed, the commissioner added, per CNN.
The deceased victims were identified as a 34-year-old Gregory Jackson, 27-year-old Alexis Quinn, and an unnamed 22-year-old man, NBC10 Philadelphia reported.
Among the surviving victims are two 17-year-old girls and one 17-year-old boy, according to NBC10 Philadelphia, citing Outlaw.
Teenage girl dies at a strip mall in Phoenix, Arizona A 14-year-old girl was fatally wounded at a strip mall in Phoenix, Arizona, where 100 people had gathered for a party before fighting broke out early Saturday morning, police said, per USA Today.
The fight eventually turned into a series of shootings in the building and spilled out onto the parking lot and street, the outlet reported, citing local police.
"Many rounds were shot into this crowd of people as everyone fled the area," police said, per USA Today.
Apart from the teenage girl — who died of her wounds in the hospital — two women, five men, and a teenage boy were shot and injured, USA Today reported. The two women are currently in critical condition, per the outlet.
The shooter has not been caught, according to Fox10 Phoenix.
Six children shot in Summerton, South Carolina An outdoor graduation party on Saturday evening was interrupted by shooters in two cars who pulled up to the venue and opened fire on attendees, according to a statement from the Clarendon County Sheriff's Office.
Authorities said that a total of 60 to 70 rounds were fired before the shooters left and drove south on St. Paul Highway. The statement added that it is unclear if anyone in the crowd returned fire at the shooters.
The sheriff's office said a 32-year-old woman died of gunshot wounds, and another seven people were injured. Among those hurt were a 12-year-old, a 13-year-old, a 14-year-old, two 15-year-olds, and a 17-year-old.
"It is not sure whether shots were fired at specific persons or just randomly into the crowd," the statement read.
Police believe this was a gang-related incident stemming from previous drive-bys in the county.
50 shots fired at graduation party in Chester, Virginia Another graduation party on Friday night ended in violence, leaving a 20-year-old man fatally shot and seven others injured, police said, per The AP.
Authorities said two separate fights had happened at the mostly-outdoor party before police received calls about the gunfire, The AP reported.
Chesterfield County Police Maj. Brad Badgerow said at a news conference that police found 50 casings fired by four different calibers, the outlet reported.
"Whether that means it was four people shooting — I can't tell you that," Badgerow said, per The AP. "But it looks like there were at least four different weapons that were fired."
Two of those injured were struck by a car as the crowd fled the shooting, and the victims' ages range from 16 to 21, the AP reported.
Teens injured at a graduation party in El Paso, Texas Five teenagers were hospitalized, and two are in critical condition following a shooting at a high school graduation party early Saturday in Socorro, a town near El Paso, Texas.
Those at the party said fighting had broken out between two groups, police said, per the AP.
Gunfire in downtown Grand Rapids, Michigan A man was killed, and three other adult males were injured, after gunfire erupted in downtown Grand Rapids early Sunday.
According to local outlet MLive, police have not released the identities or ages of the victims.
An MLive reporter heard 10 shots being fired, the outlet reported.
Nightclub shooting in Mesa, Arizona Two people were found dead in a parking lot and two others were injured after a shooting at a nightclub early Sunday morning, police said, per CBS affiliate AZ Family.
Authorities are still working out the events that led up to the shooting, although officers said they saw someone speeding away from the venue as they arrived at the scene, per the outlet.
One of the injured persons is a security guard, police said, per AZ Family.
Five shootings in residential areas; 21 victims in total On Saturday evening, 19-year-old Cleveland Raines was killed in a shooting at an abandoned house in Macon, Georgia, according to the Bibb County Sheriff's Office. Three other victims, 19-year-old Ralph Hughes, 23-year-old Jarvis Devon Hill, and 22-year-old Alizya Sinclair, were injured, authorities said.
Police have not said why the victims were at the abandoned house, and an investigation is still ongoing.
In Omaha, Nebraska, 31-year-old Pierre R. Hightower was found dead at the scene of a shooting on Friday night, while three other victims were sent to hospital, ABC affiliate KETV Omaha reported.
Nassau County Police are also investigating a Saturday night shooting in Hempstead, New York, where a 19-year-old male was killed and three other men, aged 23, 31, and 35, were hospitalized with gunshot wounds to the ankle and thigh, NBC News reported.
Meanwhile, in Ecorse, Michigan, four people were shot early Saturday in an incident reportedly involving a party bus, per the Gun Violence Archive, which cited a Facebook account that monitors dispatch radio. There have been no reported deaths so far.
In Saginaw, Michigan, two men were pronounced dead at the scene of a shooting and one woman died of her wounds at the hospital, the AP reported. Police responded to the shooting on early Sunday, the outlet wrote.
Another two men arrived at the hospital in personal vehicles and are being treated for injuries, per the AP.
I really thought we were on some Iraq:Afghanistan nonsense.
Nah, it’s way worse.
We’re an active war zone because this country is bored out of its mind, and has nothing else better to do than be up all in their feelings like some daytime talk show and lash out violently.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
33 mass shootings in a week and 1/2. .. 246 so far this year. China and Russia are winning their war against the USA without firing a single shot. We’re killing ourselves with guns and fentanyl.
Last edited by PerfectSpiral; 06/06/2209:46 AM. Reason: Guns and fentanyl are killing US
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives. – Jackie Robinson
Answering the original question: Why can't anything be done.
It seems pretty obvious now. Most people's idea of debate is ridicule and mocking if they disagree with you.
I have cited statistics that show AR pattern weapons are used in very few actual mass shootings, I have cited SCOTUS rulings on militia and scope of the second amendment, and someone else has posted about mental state of mass shooters, but in the end the reason the counter arguments come down to:
"mah rights" like someone how anyone that thinks this is a people issue and not a tool issue is a backwoods hick. The very idea is condescending and insulting. They tell you that you want people dead and don't care how many die just so you can has your guns.
Until people stop wanting to yelling emotional rhetoric and start looking at fact based solutions nothing will happen.
So enjoy your little echo chamber of insults and emotional rhetoric, I won't read this thread again. I certainly will not spend time digging into statistics and actually reading SCOTUS opinions (ok, I will continue to do that as being an educated person learning more is important).
Most people's idea of debate is ridicule and mocking if they disagree with you.
I would not say "most" people, but there is a group of posters on here that resort to that tactic on a constant basis and they usually do so together, like a gang or mob. It happens in this forum and the so-called Pure Football forum all the damn time.
I would not say "most" people, but there is a group of posters on here that resort to that tactic on a constant basis and they usually do so together, like a gang or mob. It happens in this forum and the so-called Pure Football forum all the damn time.
Like this gem from you in Pure Football?
Quote
This is pure opinion, but I feel that if Watson had been traded to Atlanta or New Orleans, their respective local media and fan base would never have made as much stink as our dumb-ass fans and local media has about the situation. Our own people are actually lobbying for a stiff suspension. Sometimes, I think Browns fans are the dumbest fans in the league and local media is right there w/them. Look at this board. We actually have people working very hard to get others to trash Watson and the team. Absurd. And I can't wait for the next "Analytics, Had Enough Yet" thread.
And there are no "people working very hard to get others to trash Watson and the team". That's just a flat out lie you can't stop telling. As long as you include yourself in the group you describe, that's fine. If you don't, there's a a name for that.
You are such a victim.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I get his concerns as a black activist. This definition gives the right ammo to point fingers at the black community, which by this definition would become the biggest contributor to mass shooting statistics. The last thing the black community or America needs is the rightwing pointing fingers at the black community, instead of addressing the hate and fear-based gun movement in their ranks that has contributed to many of the most horrific of these events. However, we shouldn't overlook this violence in the black community just because it makes people like him uncomfortable with facts as they have been defined. Murder is murder, and the last I checked it didn't matter what color the trigger puller's skin was to determine it was murder. Political and Hate influenced mass shootings are however somehow worse, considering the general population's reactions. I'm not sure if that is so much an overlooking of murder in black communities or the shocking regularity that we are seeing the AR-15 armed right-wing leaning mass murders. It should also be pointed out that the right-wing doesn't have a monopoly on those, the Steve Scalise shooting can attest to that.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Imagine if our "leaders" could make as much sense. Absolutely love this guy and wish he would throw his hat in the ring in Texas. This is what truth and leadership looks like.
I get his concerns as a black activist. This definition gives the right ammo to point fingers at the black community, which by this definition would become the biggest contributor to mass shooting statistics. The last thing the black community or America needs is the rightwing pointing fingers at the black community, instead of addressing the hate and fear-based gun movement in their ranks that has contributed to many of the most horrific of these events. However, we shouldn't overlook this violence in the black community just because it makes people like him uncomfortable with facts as they have been defined. Murder is murder, and the last I checked it didn't matter what color the trigger puller's skin was to determine it was murder. Political and Hate influenced mass shootings are however somehow worse, considering the general population's reactions. I'm not sure if that is so much an overlooking of murder in black communities or the shocking regularity that we are seeing the AR-15 armed right-wing leaning mass murders. It should also be pointed out that the right-wing doesn't have a monopoly on those, the Steve Scalise shooting can attest to that.
Except that the NRA and conservative policies are responsible for providing these acts of violence with weapons in the high poverty areas within these cities. Hawaii has a high level of poverty, a low level of gun violence and is an island in the middle of the Pacific. So called "democrat run cities" are islands of gun control policies surrounded by oceans of access to weaponry.
So... are people going to start calling for black gang members to be illegal like they do for guns?
Our community calls them out all the time. The fact that you aren’t aware of this shows how ignorant you are of the activism that goes on in these communities in your own country.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
So... are people going to start calling for black gang members to be illegal like they do for guns?
Our community calls them out all the time. The fact that you aren’t aware of this shows how ignorant you are of the activism that goes on in these communities in your own country.
What community? People in the country don't have gangs.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
But I guess people don’t create guns either. God does.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
But I guess people don’t create guns either. God does.
no no.. don't twist my words.
I said, "People in the country don't have gangs."
Oh I know exactly what you’re saying. It’s just about as ridiculous and illogical as a trump tweet.
It’s about as ridiculous as saying “people in the country don’t have mafias”. You’re trying to make a point that just makes you look worse and worse the more you try it.
It’s like the old “guns don’t kill people. People kill people”. As if you can separate one from the other.
But I expect nothing less from you.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
But I guess people don’t create guns either. God does.
no no.. don't twist my words.
I said, "People in the country don't have gangs."
Oh I know exactly what you’re saying. It’s just about as ridiculous and illogical as a trump tweet.
It’s about as ridiculous as saying “people in the country don’t have mafias”. You’re trying to make a point that just makes you look worse and worse the more you try it.
It’s like the old “guns don’t kill people. People kill people”. As if you can separate one from the other.
But I expect nothing less from you.
First and foremost, trump is a fricking moron and I would never vote for him.
Also, it's important to understand that in the country/rural areas, a gun is a tool used for protection from wildlife, for hunting, and that requires a lot of practice to stay sharp.
Secondly, the point is that people are stupid and crying to eliminate guns when the vast majority of shootings are coming from gangs in urban areas. So.... let's just throw every gang member in jail for life and mass shootings will drop by 80%.
In fact, 90+ of shootings happen in urban areas. so... How about we make discharging guns in urban areas illegal? oh wait... it already is already illegal in every city and major metro in the USA. hunh... so... that law didn't work? OMG!!!! I'M SO SHOCKED! How can that be Swish!?!? It must be because... criminals don't follow laws and evil causes people to do these horrible things.
So yes...... getting rid of guns, ropes, knives, various poisons, hydrogen peroxide, or any other household chemical that can be turned into a bomb. will not solve anything. Doing that could be the nail in the coffin that may cause a civil war again and could split the country into pieces. Ironically, everyone will be using guns at that point.
I don't know what the proper answer is on how we improve things. I do think we need to get rid of evil, educate more, and I personally, don't know how we can do that as a country.
I expected more from you.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
Notice how far away you got from your “people in the country don’t have gangs”?
Then you just said a whole lot of nothing.
Your illogical comment with that says you never heard of RICO charges. They’ve been arresting street gangs for years now with that at a rapid pace. Used to be the mafia. RICO has effectively made street gang activity illegal. Like come bro this is common knowledge. Or at least I thought it was…
You’ve also made it clear you don’t pay attention to anything I’ve posted. If you did, you know I don’t want a complete ban on guns and never advocates for an all out ban.
But that’s what happens when you don’t pay attention and make illogical arguments. You get post just like the one you posted.
Again, I expect nothing less.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I get his concerns as a black activist. This definition gives the right ammo to point fingers at the black community, which by this definition would become the biggest contributor to mass shooting statistics. The last thing the black community or America needs is the rightwing pointing fingers at the black community, instead of addressing the hate and fear-based gun movement in their ranks that has contributed to many of the most horrific of these events. However, we shouldn't overlook this violence in the black community just because it makes people like him uncomfortable with facts as they have been defined. Murder is murder, and the last I checked it didn't matter what color the trigger puller's skin was to determine it was murder. Political and Hate influenced mass shootings are however somehow worse, considering the general population's reactions. I'm not sure if that is so much an overlooking of murder in black communities or the shocking regularity that we are seeing the AR-15 armed right-wing leaning mass murders. It should also be pointed out that the right-wing doesn't have a monopoly on those, the Steve Scalise shooting can attest to that.
Mass shootings are mass shootings no matter who is doing the shooting.
When you get down to it, shootings of one person outnumber the totals of people shot in mass shootings, no matter the definition.
I don't see the justification in hiding who is doing the shooting. It is what it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
RICO has effectively made street gang activity illegal.
Interesting.
So... why does illegal gang actiiity still exist in every major city in America?
We've had this convo on this board a thousand times already. That’s like asking why does the mafia still exist. Why do I have a feeling you’re gonna respond with the old “well why make it illegal when criminals don’t follow laws” rhetoric.
Always a different version of the same crap.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
RICO has effectively made street gang activity illegal.
Interesting.
So... why does illegal gang actiiity still exist in every major city in America?
We've had this convo on this board a thousand times already. That’s like asking why does the mafia still exist. Why do I have a feeling you’re gonna respond with the old “well why make it illegal when criminals don’t follow laws” rhetoric.
Always a different version of the same crap.
moreso, we should enforce the laws that exist?
To your point... If "RICO charges" are so effective... we should be able to throw all of the gang members in jail and "mass shootings" will be reduced by 90%
yet here we are... people still blaming a fork for making people fat. We should make silverware illegal - it will solve our country's obesity problem.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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