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What's sickening is Baker fans saying others are ignorant. As for the rest, you are entitled to your opinions. I won't resort to the tactics that Pit and 888 bring to this forum and others day after day after day.

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This play is indicative of either a poor read or being too greedy. I don't think it had a thing to do w/injury. This crap happened over and over and over again. But yeah, I am ignorant.



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Here is an explanation of why it was such a stupid read. Of course, maybe Baker's eyes were injured.


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Originally Posted by steve0255
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:

Some people are so desperate to defend their beloved Baker that they don't even consider that Baker might have been making yet another excuse for his bad play. It's not like he hasn't blamed teammates, coaching changes, the fans, his coach, etc, etc before. No, not Baker. The HC and medical staff cleared him to play. Perhaps he was healthy enough to play and Baker overplayed the injury card because of his contract situation? Let's not consider that. Let's make more excuses for the player who receives more excuses than any other.

Most of Baker's bad throws had nothing to do w/his injury. Bad reads, bad decisions, inaccurate throws due to him not being able to make accurate throws in the pocket due to teams keeping him in there and getting their hands up and changing his arm angles. None of those things were visible to the Baker fan club.

There are so many reasons being thrown about for Baker's poor play and if even half of them were true, he would be another team right now. Other NFL teams could recognize why his throws were off. They could have recognized the terrible scheme that Stefanski ran. They could recognize how terrible Baker's supporting cast was. Of course, the Browns FO and all the other NFL teams can't evaluate talent and football on the field. Only Baker fans can.

rolleyes

This has been hashed about so many times it's sickening. Just some facts again Vers, Mayfield is the winningest QB in the history of the NFL that started his career with 3 different HC in his first 3-years. Mayfield actually had 4 but interim coaches are not included. Not an excuse but a proven fact. The amount of injuries that were on the offense last year was vast and only slightly less than BAL that's been using that reason for their poor season since last fall. Again, a fact you continue to ignore. Stefanski, you, the FO or anyone else that buys into the rouse that Mayfield said he was playing and Stefanski had no choice in the matter is just plain BS. In fact, if Stefanski continued to play Mayfield with the problems he was having from his injury because Mayfield says he was going to play, then Stefanski should be fired immediately because it is clear he doesn't have a once of control of his team. I have to tell you, anyone making a statement that with Mayfield's poor play that Stefanski continued to play Mayfield because Mayfield said he was playing is trying to dish out the biggest piece of BS ever posted here. The person responsible for trotting out Mayfield each week was the damn head coach. He is the ultimate decision maker and it doesn't matter if he was medically cleared or if Mayfield said he was playing. Anybody watching those games could tell the injury was effecting his play so much so Stefanski even changed to scheme to compensate for not only Mayfield but the issues at both tackles and WR injuries you never give credence too. Mayfield playing all those games injured was a Stefanski decision and ONLY A STEFANSKI DECISION! If you're pissed about Mayfield's play, why don't you blame the guy who trotted Mayfield out there week after week when he wasn't able to perform up to the level he exhibited in 2020 and the first 2 games of 2021. But no, you hate Baker and everyone else gets a pass.

Finally, Mayfield is still on IR and no team is going to invest in a player they don't even know will be ready at season start with only 1 year left on his deal. You're a football guy and you know what I'm saying is true in every sense of the word but your disdain for Mayfield clouds your judgement and you know it. GIVE IT A REST DUDE!

1. Justin Herbert has had 2 HC in 2 years
It hasn't stopped him from being a elite NFL QB.

2.I think Stefanski has proven to be a better HC than Mayfield has a QB

3.the injury excuse can only be used so far in regards to the surrounding cast of the QB.
QBs drafted in RD 1, especially in the Top 16 of the Draft are expected to weather personal changes
Due to injury etc.
For example Joe Burrow had the worst oline in the league last year
Yet he didn't let that stop him from getting the SB.

4. Teams are shying from Baker cause of how he lost the Locker room last year
They are also not lining up to sign him because the fear is, perhaps of his inability
To pull games out in the 4th Q. He is not a clutch QB. He wilts when it's time make 4th Q plays
18 million for a,QB is relative bargain in the NFL
Baker's Injury is a easy one for a player to recover from.

Last edited by Iluvmyxstripper; 06/09/22 07:33 PM.
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Mayfield is the winningest QB in the history of the NFL that started his career with 3 different HC in his first 3-years.

LOL.

FFS-- Then how come no one wants to trade for him? $19M pales in comparison with that stat! thumbsup


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Originally Posted by jfanent
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Mayfield is the winningest QB in the history of the NFL that started his career with 3 different HC in his first 3-years.

I can't imagine that the candidate pool is very large. It's like saying he's the winningest qb in NFL history with the first name of Baker.

So, due to the fact that in the history of the NFL there have only been 5-6 QB's that faced the same situation as Mayfield with none of the others winning more than 9-10 games while Baker had a winning record during that time it should just be ignored as something all QB's go through but haven't? The success rate of those QBs is around 16% with Baker the only one with a winning record - duh, so what? Let's be sure to not give Mayfield any credit at all for what he's done while in Cleveland. Let's take the guys entire career and base it on a season where he was injured and had a head coach that trotted him out there week after week when any average person could see the injury was effecting his play - except the Baker haters and obviously Stefanski.

So now the Browns are running another QB out of town, nobody better at that than the Cleveland Browns, and the owner and FO have screwed the pooch and appears to have lost their chosen one with 3 years of 1st round picks to boot. In the meantime, the Browns can return to mediocrity while waiting another 2 decades for an above average QB that they can chase out of town in a couple of years. Just as the team was on the verge of changing their image they return to the "mistake on the lake" in a 5 month period. Kudos


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BAKER DOESN'T PLAY HERE ANYMORE


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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What should we talk about, Fate? Some people have suggested bringing Baker back. Do we have to ignore that? Do we have to ignore that he hasn't been traded yet? And what precisely is wrong w/educating oneself about the truths of the matter w/factual video evidence? Just wondering....and not in a malicious way. What should we talk about? Another article that was born from a Florio article? Brown's fans wanted no part of Watson and it looks like they got their wish. So, now what?

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You, vers, are the one that wet the bad over getting DW. You never stopped, and still haven't, attacking Baker.

Browns fans wanting no part of Watson is a no go, and stupid. Browns fans don't make the decisions. DW made his decisions. You can now see where that got the team.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
And what precisely is wrong w/educating oneself about the truths of the matter w/factual video evidence? Just wondering....and not in a malicious way.

You are one triggered Baker hater. I remember now - you once posted (and I am paraphrasing - not quoting) Ohio State is your #1 team over the Browns - and you won't ever forgive Baker for the disrespect of of the flag plant. Sure - it was years ago, no doubt you will deny it - but you wrote it and hopefully at least one other poster will remember.

No-one suggested we bring him back, he hasn't left .... the discussion or speculation was whether the bridge has been burned or if there was any scintilla of a chance he could play if DW is banned for a year. My point would be - if Baker is better than Bassett and the point of the team is to win, wouldn't it on some level make sense? But that would be reliant on ALL sides, coaches, players being 100% on board. The chance is a million to one - but it was a discussion. Not a suggestion.

Your response was to spam videos showing how bad Baker is. LMAO. Triggered.

Last edited by mgh888; 06/09/22 09:40 PM.

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You are one triggered Baker hater. I remember now - you once posted (and I am paraphrasing - not quoting) Ohio State is your #1 team over the Browns - and you won't ever forgive Baker for the disrespect of of the flag plant. Sure - it was years ago, no doubt you will deny it - but you wrote it and hopefully at least one other poster will remember.

I have tried my best to not reply to Pit and 888 due to their constant lies about what I have said. However, I am not going to let this one go. That is a complete lie that you and WSU fabricated.

I could care less about the stupid flag plant. It was an immature act, but I actually laughed at it because it was so moronic and it did NOT offend me in the slightest.

Btw--------did you watch the videos, QB guru? Calling me ignorant. Pffftttttt........

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J/C..

I wish the NFL would make a decision like tomorrow as we all do.

I wonder by adding the Houston org to the lawsuits if it could extend all the legal matters. Now Buzbee is going against an NFL team. To me this could extend this out for some time.

If the Browns do void his contract, it sure would be nice to get those three number one picks back.

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Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
If the Browns do void his contract, it sure would be nice to get those three number one picks back.
That would be tragic to the integrity of the NFL. ( As if they had any to begin with, but on the rules of competition they have a little.)

That would be a major thumbsdown and must not be allowed to happen. The NFL cannot start undoing trades weeks after they are finished or they will have no future integrity of competition. (Do folks advocate undoing chess moves after they see the next move?) ( Did the Browns remove their hand from the checker?)
(...want to have their cake and eat it too.)


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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What would be tragic to the integrity of the NFL is allowing a team to help a player who has a bad habit of wanting happy endings !

If the Houston Texans are found guilty of anything like that , then give the picks back !!!

They knew of a bad situation and may have been a part of allowing it.

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Originally Posted by steve0255
Originally Posted by jfanent
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Mayfield is the winningest QB in the history of the NFL that started his career with 3 different HC in his first 3-years.

I can't imagine that the candidate pool is very large. It's like saying he's the winningest qb in NFL history with the first name of Baker.

So, due to the fact that in the history of the NFL there have only been 5-6 QB's that faced the same situation as Mayfield with none of the others winning more than 9-10 games while Baker had a winning record during that time it should just be ignored as something all QB's go through but haven't?

It should be ignored because it's a completely meaningless stat that proves nothing. You used 3 coaches in 3 yrs as the common denominator between 6 qbs and then said one of them is much better because he won more games than the other 5 in that time. That's really scraping to try and prove some point that doesn't mean a whole lot as far as the Browns or their lame duck qb go.


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I wonder if it is impossible to think he WAS throwing to Joke?


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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j/c:

Here is a video that is extremely well done. It has both good and bad Baker examples. It also highlights a lot of the things I have claimed about Baker as a qb. It's almost 18 minutes long, but if you want an excellent breakdown of what Baker is as a qb, this is great watch.




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No doubt baker was bad last season, no matter how we want to cut it.

He also hasn't improved much since his rookie season. Some of last season can be explained away with some solid reasons, but in the end Baker isn't a top 5 or even 10 QB.

I would have been fine if we kept him, but am not sad or upset we elected to move on.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
[quote=Damanshot]This morning I read an article that was questioning this as well... They were wondering if there was a way to void the entire trade..[/quote}

I think that would be hard. I suppose we might if it was established the Texans didn't act in good faith and traded him under fraudulent terms, and even then it would still fall under the purview of the NFL and it's by-laws and I am not sure if that would be considered.

I think that is more the grasping at straws over anything that would actually happen.


No question, it is grasping at straws.. It does appear that there is a movement afoot to make the Texans at least somewhat culpable in this. Not sure if or how that would work,,, But just my opinion, that is the least of what needs to happen to void this deal.. I really don't see it happening.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
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You are one triggered Baker hater. I remember now - you once posted (and I am paraphrasing - not quoting) Ohio State is your #1 team over the Browns - and you won't ever forgive Baker for the disrespect of of the flag plant. Sure - it was years ago, no doubt you will deny it - but you wrote it and hopefully at least one other poster will remember.

I have tried my best to not reply to Pit and 888 due to their constant lies about what I have said. However, I am not going to let this one go. That is a complete lie that you and WSU fabricated.

You wrote that - I read it - I remember it. It might have been years ago but hopefully someone else remembers too. You call everyone a liar when you don't like their opinion or responses to you - that does not make it so. When I cut and pasted your own words, you said the same damn thing.


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Spend more time w/your kids and less time on me. You lie constantly and ask others to join in your adolescent attacks.

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So, has anyone watched the latest video I posted. Are my takes still "ignorant?"

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Spend more time w/your kids and less time on me. You lie constantly and ask others to join in your adolescent attacks.

Another ignorant statement - but par for the course.


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Anyway............the video clearly demonstrates that Baker struggles w/his pre-snap reads and going through his progressions post snap. His poor reads lead to most of his bad throws. The video shows how this has been an issue since he came into the league. I have been saying that since his first year. My comments are not ignorant. They are factual and adolescent attempts at turning this into a personality contest does not change the fact that Baker is lacking as a qb.

The latest video also highlighted Baker's good points and I agree w/the commentary there, as well. Baker does have some strengths.

The only thing I really disagreed with is that the guy said Baker's mechanics were not an issue. He did not elaborate and said it more in passing to move on to another of his points. I do think Baker struggles w/his lower body mechanics and I brought that up from day one. I also was a huge proponent of Baker working w/a QB coach during the off season after his rookie year. Baker said he didn't need a "broom sweeper." This might have been one of the things the organization was talking about when they said he didn't prepare as well as he could of?

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Didn’t we already have all these Baker conversations six months ago?

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jc...

Time for Cleveland Browns owners to speak up, be accountable on Deshaun Watson | Opinion

Marla Ridenour
Akron Beacon Journal
link



BEREA, Ohio – It is time Browns ownership shared the burden.

It is time for Jimmy and Dee Haslam to address the civil lawsuits facing quarterback Deshaun Watson and take some of that responsibility off coach Kevin Stefanski.

As the count of cases filed against Watson continues to mount, the black eye the franchise is sporting grows darker by the day. Yet the Haslams remain out of the spotlight.

They spoke on Zoom March 25 following Watson’s introductory news conference, then met with the Beacon Journal and a few Cleveland outlets the following week during the NFL owners meetings at The Breakers Palm Beach.

Since then, the Watson situation has become more tenuous. The possibility that the NFL will suspend him remains as 24 women have filed civil suits accusing Watson of sexual misconduct during massage appointments.

When the Browns traded for the Houston Texans’ Watson on March 18 after a second Texas grand jury failed to indict him on criminal charges, Watson faced 22 civil suits. Investigations continue to unearth more disturbing details.


The latest came Tuesday, when a New York Times report by Jenny Vrentas said Watson saw 66 different women for massages over a span of 17 months. Vrentas’ piece included that the Texans obtained hotel rooms Watson sometimes used for the appointments and that a staff member provided him with a non-disclosure agreement form Watson used. On Wednesday evening, Tony Buzbee, attorney for the 24 women, issued a statement that he will be adding the Texans as defendants in many of the civil suits.

Yet Stefanski continues to be the only one stepping in front of the microphones.

Every time he’s spoken in the past two weeks, it has come on the heels of more Watson news.

At the first open session of organized team activities on May 25, a segment on Watson’s legal woes on HBO’s “Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel,” which included on-camera interviews with two of his accusers, had aired the night before.

The Browns’ June 1 OTA availability came after lawsuit No. 23 had been filed on May 31.

The impending filing of the 24th civil suit was circulating during Monday’s 22nd annual Cleveland Browns Foundation Golf Tournament at Westwood Country Club, and official word came during Stefanski’s interview.

On Wednesday at the Browns’ CrossCountry Mortgage Campus, Stefanski fended off questions about the New York Times piece and whether the Browns knew about the circumstances detailed in the 24th lawsuit when they traded for Watson.

Stefanski talked for over 10 minutes and 12 of the 24 questions involved Watson, including queries about his character, standing with the Browns and the status of the league’s investigation. Another involved the Browns’ experience dealing with adversity during two years of the COVID-19 pandemic and whether backup Jacoby Brissett is getting enough practice reps with Watson’s status for the regular season uncertain.

Stefanski calmly answered all of them, many with a similar reply.

“I understand the question. I think for me, I am going to be respectful of the investigation, of the legal proceedings and I am going to let that play out,” he said.

With no end in sight to the Watson saga and an agreement in place that there will be no legal proceedings between Aug. 1 and March 1, Stefanski was asked if he was frustrated by the repeated questions.

“I would not characterize it that way,” Stefanski said. “I do understand that you have a job to do, so I am just going to provide as much information as I can, when I can.” 

That’s not to say that Stefanski is blameless in the Browns bringing in Watson and giving him a record-setting $230 million guaranteed contract with such baggage attached. Watson didn’t play in 2021 as he sought a trade and the Miami Dolphins backed out if their pursuit when Watson’s attorneys couldn’t reach settlements in all 22 of the civil cases by the league deadline.

Stefanski was part of the group, along with the Haslams and general manager Andrew Berry, that approved the Watson deal.

The Haslams aren’t the only ones who have remained silent.

Watson hasn’t spoken since his introduction on March 25. He presented linebacker Anthony Walker Jr. a boxed Rolex on May 25 for giving him his No. 4, interrupting Walker’s news conference and causing an awkward scene in a blatant public relations stunt.

Berry last talked on April 30 during the NFL Draft wrap-up with Stefanski and Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta.

Much has changed since then. Buzbee's plan to include the Texans in some of the suits adds to the enormity of the situation Watson and the Browns face.

Stefanski will direct the Browns during their full-squad minicamp Tuesday through Thursday when all – save for excused quarterback Baker Mayfield, who is awaiting a trade – are required to be present. Will Stefanski again infairly be forced to handle it all alone?

As the Browns’ world turns on a seemingly shaky axis, the organization needs another voice on Watson, another calming presence. Fans need an assurance that the Browns will do everything to maximize their Super Bowl window of opportunity with Myles Garrett, Nick Chubb, Joel Bitonio and Denzel Ward in the prime of their careers, no matter what happens with Watson.

Presuming the Haslams are capable of at least such an assurance, that voice should be theirs.


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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Spend more time w/your kids and less time on me. You lie constantly and ask others to join in your adolescent attacks.

Another ignorant statement - but par for the course.

To expand on this - no-one has any possible idea what difference Baker's injury had on his ability to throw, his confidence, his willingness to go through progressions or stand tall when pressure was sensed. Then there's the brace which is another complete unknown variable.

And no-one knows how much time I spend with my kids, how old they are, whether I am a awful parent or a great parent or anything in between ... and to suggest or hint or insinuate otherwise is definitely ignorant. And using my posts online - of which I have nearly 1/5 of the total number from the person that wanted to throw these insinuations around - is laughable.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Didn’t we already have all these Baker conversations six months ago?

We did, but with a new allegation, talk about the "tip of the iceberg" and so on, some people have a new or invigorated spirit.


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j/c:

Here is yet another article w/video evidence of how Baker's issues went way beyond his injury status. I guess this guy is also "ignorant. I'll copy and paste the text, but please click on the link to view the videos.



Quote
OBR Film Room: Why Baker Mayfield Struggled And Processing A Path Forward
ByJAKE BURNS Jan 12, 5:49 AM
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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- It's truly tough to believe we are here. I'm sitting down trying to write this, trying to explain to you how 2021 broke Baker Mayfield and potentially the Cleveland Browns' future. You can call that statement dramatic, but the reality is the Browns are now questioning a position many in the industry started to feel had been solidified by the end of 2020's playoff run.

The cliche "quarterbacks get too much of the credit and too much of the blame" will always hold true with me. I'm someone who values the nuance and process over the results. However, this sport is not processed in a singular frame of reference. I view quarterback play differently than you do, and you view it differently than me. We all bring our personal biases and experiences to the table and then we form our opinion.

That difference in consumption and analysis is why there is a clear divide happening right now among those who support Mayfield through anything and those who feel the Browns title window is now and they can't let another season of quarterback play happen as it did in 2021.


The root of the issue is that Mayfield has failed to be the version you started to grow comfortable with at the end of 2020. He was one of the key reasons, from Week 7 on, that the offense, and Mayfield, found success en route to a playoff appearance.

This is what all quarterbacks chase - consistent success. Find your best way to move the football for your offense, your identity as a quarterback, and repeat that formula. For Mayfield it was simple - Kevin Stefanski's scheme keeps it that way for the quarterback. Above all else, make the schemed throws, hit your downfield opportunities, manage the game without turnovers, and convert a handful of those "creation" plays when everything falls apart. Mayfield did most of this at a high level from 2020 Week 7 on, and it provided the light to a path forward after a disastrous 2019 and start to 2020.

While no deal was struck in the offseason between Mayfield and the Browns, they were clearly on the right path. Duplicate your success in isolated quarterback play in 2021 and the rest will take care of itself. The front office was starving for Mayfield to show that his formula was repeatable but the formula broke down early. Mayfield started strong in Kansas City before the final three drives of the game ended punt, punt, and an interception.

The Week 17 loss in Pittsburgh, including nine sacks, was the type of ugly ending that manifested the old fear of change and has forced us to look back and try to figure out if Mayfield is too far gone to come back from what is either just a lost year or something more.


This article will trend into the negative in Mayfield's game because in order to figure out how he moves forward, we have to pinpoint what has gone wrong for the fourth year quarterback through his career so far and in 2021 specifically.

There is proof Mayfield can find NFL success. There is recent tape of it. The problem remains in the consistency. He has to clean up these issues to move forward as not just the Browns' starter in 2022, but to re-establish himself as the future for the franchise at the position.

SETTING THE HALLWAY AND SEQUENCING
Now we shift to the study of where Mayfield's mechanics have led him astray this season. There are two areas that stand out to me: how he aligns his body to his throwing targets and issues he has getting his sequencing right in order to deliver the football with accuracy on a consistent basis.

The issues for Mayfield are certainly not isolated to just himself, but others across the league as well. Zach Hicks of Horseshoe Huddle did a fantastic study on Carson Wentz last year when he was traded to Indianapolis. While not every part of the Wentz study translates, a few key areas do.

The first is a concept known as "setting the hallway."

Hicks spent time discussing the concept with Dub Maddox who is the QB Coach and Offensive Coordinator at Union High School and has authored many books on quarterback play. He is also the founder of the R4 operating system that is tailored to improve quarterback and coaching decision-making.


Maddox explained, "The hips are where all movement originates from. The idea is that if you are a quarterback and you are scanning the field, you have to have the ability to rotate that front hip. If you put a camera on that front hip, that camera has to be pointed to the route space that you are throwing to. If your back foot is set up properly, then your front hip is set up properly."

"You have to kind of over-correct those right eye dominant quarterbacks and make sure they understand about that hip position and setting that vertical hallway," he added.

If you have watched Mayfield enough, you know his consistent miss is high and behind. More often on right side throws than the left side, but nonetheless, that is his issue. These throws were front and center this year but certainly not isolated to just 2021.

There are several that stand out this year and you can see how Mayfield is fighting his mechanics due to the poor lower body set. The second interception in the Green Bay game was a great example of this. Watch how he is fighting the lower body here and never gets the lead foot and hip working in the direction he needs to throw.


Look where the hallway is allowing Mayfield to throw and where he is actually attempting to throw it.


Against the Lions, there were a few examples of the issues again. The first interception on the day was as evident as it can get. Watch as Mayfield works back to his right, but the feet and hips never sync to the eyes upon throwing.


Here's the visual at delivery to show you the issues truly stem from the miscommunication happening between what the head is telling Mayfield to do and what his lower body is allowing. Look specifically at the front foot direction.


It's easy to blame these issues on 2021's injuries alone and move on, but these issues have been around for Mayfield throughout his career. While the injuries don't help, the lack of consistency in mechanics is what leads to those turnover-worthy throws that cost your team games.

In the 2020 season-opener in Baltimore, Mayfield had Odell Beckham Jr. up the hash on a bender route and the hallway issues popped up again. Watch him fight the lower half and leave this ball outside the window to the right side.


Again, look how his lower body hangs the upper body out to dry here.


Tracking back to 2019, Mayfield had two easy examples of this issue. Against the Titans in the opener where he leaves a ball outside his right side target again due to the poor lower half. You can see how it often happens when he scans left side to the right side and the feet just don't work quickly enough with the eyes.


Front foot down the middle of the field for a ball that ends up outside on the numbers. No way can accuracy consistently happen with this flaw.

One last example of a right-side issue in 2019 here as Mayfield is working off play action against the Seahawks. Watch the feet again as this is almost an identical look to the 2021 throw against the Packers.


There is very little chance for this ball to be accurate on an in-breaking or vertical route. Unless you find a way to overcome with arm talent and Mayfield lacks that ability.


Another focal point for Mayfield is the issues he will have in what is called sequencing. This is a popular sports term for many uncoiling motions - think swing sports like tennis, golf, or baseball. It also translates to those throwing motions like pitching or quarterback play where you generate power and accuracy through a repeatable uncoiling motion.

Aligning the sequence of a quarterback's body is a major coaching point for quarterback Guru Tom House and 3DQB, according to Hicks' research.


"You throw like a batter in baseball. In baseball, the first move that initiates is that lower body and that front foot. What good hitters do is called dissociation. In dissociation, it allows your body to carry efficient power through your body," House notes.

"Keep your hands on the ball and don’t move your hands until you feel that forward foot strike the ground. It creates a coil effect that builds up spiral spring tension in the core that can release as you separate your hands."

That is why Aaron Rodgers looks so effortless throwing the ball down the field. It is all about his sequencing. Everything is compact, it works in a fluid process from start to finish.


There are times where you will feel Mayfield struggling to bring his back half through in his sequencing. When he does get that hallway set, he will get into a similar problem that Wentz ran into where the timing is slightly off and the arm doesn't stay at proper pace with the front hip.


Watch Mayfield on a couple of throw examples. Watch how hard he is fighting to get the back half caught up with the front portion of the throwing motion and it causes him to have inaccurate outcomes.


Again, from 2020, as you can see the back half never gets through, elbow trailing the hip and it leads to a sailed throw. Consistency is the concern.


There are examples of Mayfield figuring this out. When he does get the lower body to catch up with his eyes, he can rip it with accuracy. Watch the quick shift in his base going from left to right here. Watch how active it is instead of the passive approach when he lets the ball drift. When he gets it all right, you can see a path to a repeatable formula. But, again, how willing is he to put in the work to consistently find that formula.


The failure to do so consistently is what haunts him. As we know, you can have 25 quality throws in an NFL game, but if five go sideways and turn into turnovers, then that will be how you are judged. The challenge is how often you can get the mechanics right. It takes insane muscle memory and for a quarterback like Mayfield, who has immense arm strength but not immense arm talent, he has to be buttoned up on the mechanics.

Some quarterbacks are gifted enough to have natural arm strength through a "flick of the wrist" but that isn't Mayfield. He has to generate it through his core and it takes every fiber of his body. When he does generate the torque necessary he can really drive it, but again, the mechanics have to be buttoned up. He can't miss on the hallway or the sequencing or his range of outcomes is likely to be poor.

So, again, the question for Mayfield is how often can he get those mechanics right. He has to be insane about them. Brees was wired this way. Manning as well. Those who didn't have insane arm talent but made up for it with those repeatable mechanics (plus some other variables we will get to).

Hicks made a great point in his article about quarterbacks who have the arm talent to make those poor platform throws with accuracy. Those who can get away with things Mayfield simply cannot.

He spoke with QB Coach Steve Calhoun of Armed and Dangerous QB. Calhoun is a top quarterback trainer who is an instructor with the Manning Passing Academy and has helped train multiple NFL quarterbacks (most notably Jordan Love).

"Move and reset, not move and throw off of one foot." said Calhoun. "There’s only one Pat Mahomes, and only one Aaron Rodgers."

That's the biggest thing with off-platform throws. Can quarterbacks with great arm talent do them? Absolutely. The problem, though, is the body loses so much strength and accuracy when not properly synced up.

Players like Mahomes, Allen, and Rodgers can make absurd throws without being properly synced, but even they would agree that it is better to reset and throw than to throw off of one foot.

"I get into great discussions with my quarterbacks who want to do more off-platform." said Calhoun. "I say 'let’s go watch some NFL film and get a percentage where they actually threw off-platform or off of one foot.' It’s maybe only seven or eight times a game where quarterbacks truly throw off-platform."

Off-platform throws are great for highlights but they are not a consistent way to play quarterback in the NFL. A more productive and efficient way to approach the game is to slide, reset, and deliver an accurate throw with a proper base.

The final sentence there is Mayfield's path in the NFL as it comes to mechanics, but he has to commit to them and spend time with someone who will help him find that repeatable approach.


DRIFTING IN THE POCKET
As we can all recall, Mayfield had a poor tendency to bail clean pockets in 2019 and when 2020 arrived you could sense his urgency to fight that poor habit. Mayfield worked to overhaul his pre-snap footwork in 2020, but with the desire to hang in the pocket a point of emphasis, Mayfield formed a new habit that wasn't helping the offense.

When he reaches the top of his drop, you will see Mayfield drifting to one side or the other where his eyes are working through progressions. While it seems harmless, it is a propensity that puts pressure in Mayfield's lap that he creates and you can see his offensive lineman frustrated with not knowing where he will be on any given drop.

The game in New England, which was rough all around, provided several examples. Watch here as Mayfield pushes left where his eyes are carrying him at the top of his drop and how he has to overcorrect the steps and causes him to be late and pressure created.


Again, the eyes are working left side, Mayfield drifts left and never climbs the pocket, the high side rush is waiting on him as he drifts.


Much like the hallway and sequencing issues we just spoke about, Mayfield has to clean up how he works inside the pocket. He can't drift himself into pressure or sacks. He has to hit the designated drop point and work those pocket processes with clean footwork. If you drift, you put your passing windows at risk and make life tougher on your tackles than it already is.


BROKEN PROCESSING
As with the physical part of the game we just covered for Mayfield, the mental side took a serious hit in 2021. This is where the biggest single season regression happened. These have been well-documented throughout the season on the OBR Twitch Chalk Talk sessions, but there are quick examples that show you Mayfield left too many plays on the field. Plays where his processing is slow and he either creates a negative play or passes up the right option for a weaker one.

Mayfield's first interception against the Packers in Week 16 is a clear example. Stefanski wanted to attack the single-high Packers defense with a popular Yankee Concept that puts a vertical and horizontal burden on the defense. Stefanski was wise and mixed in some shotgun run play-action with it.


Mayfield has to decipher the role of that single-high safety. If he gets nosey and bites on the deep over route from Rashard Higgins, he can take the post shot. If he squats over the top, then the over becomes the route to throw. Here is the decision-making point.


Darnell Savage, the Packers free safety, has turned on the post quite clearly here. The backside cornerback clearly is tied up with Donovan Peoples-Jones which leaves Higgins wide open. The ball is thrown over the top.

Here is a look at the play from both views.



We saw this is clear evidence in the Week 17 game in Pittsburgh where Mayfield missed the open drag route from his backside tight end in order to throw a tight window comeback on the sideline.


He also passed up two open options on a 3rd and 2 when at the top of his drop only to take a sack. More signs that late in the season Mayfield was failing to see the coverage clearly.


He didn't work well off his first read to his second read in 2021 as well. Not that he has ever been as efficient as we would hope in this area, it was obvious he started to force throws. On this squirrel route from Jarvis Landry against the Ravens, the cornerback is sitting on the route's outside breaking course, and Mayfield never comes off the route. He leaves it inside and it is intercepted, but watch how open the middle of the field dig route is if he simply comes off that first read.


We all remember the missed flat read here in Week 4 where Mayfield rolls out right side off the play-action fake on 3rd and 2. Demetric Felton, in flat motion, is wide open in the flat the whole time Mayfield rolls out but he never processes him in front of his face and takes an eventual sack.


It's not just the downfield processing I am worried about, but also the immediate answers he misses as well.

Mayfield is simply unable to work through things quick enough with pressure in his lap to know what his quick answers are either. Watch these two examples. First from the Cardinals' visit to Cleveland on a 4th and short where Mayfield never processes his backside flat route as a replacement to the Cardinals' right side pressure.


Another example is this inside pressure situation where Mayfield could drop it off to his running back releasing out the backfield but he panics himself into a sack instead of throwing a pass with touch to an open receiver in front of his face. This is how limited athleticism quarterbacks make plays above expectation. Play with immense anticipation. Not an easy play, but one he needs to make to prove himself a long-term answer.


I also have concerns about Mayfield learning from previous mistakes. Watch these two schemes from 2019 when the Browns visited New England and then again in 2021. You can tell Belichick and the Patriots defense knows if they show Mayfield a man-to-man coverage look that he will forget all about the placement of the corner on routes breaking outside from the No. 2 receiver. These two look familiar?



It is no secret that Mayfield will have to win from the pocket for long-term success. If he is to do that for the foreseeable future then he has to clean up these processing errors and prove he can decipher defenses at a higher level. He simply has to get to a better level here. I actually can't emphasize enough how important it is for Mayfield to improve in this category if he ever is to become that upper echelon quarterback many hoped he would.

Following the promise we started to see here in 2020, there were major steps back in 2021. The Browns are stuck figuring out whether this can really be fixed - at least with some consistency.


THE PATH FORWARD
The path forward truly starts with the Browns committing to Mayfield. There were positive signs in the language general manager Andrew Berry used when discussing the quarterback earlier this week.

“I think it is easy to forget this point of year that what we have seen with Baker over the past several years, obviously he had his most productive season in this offense under Kevin as early as last year. We have been with Baker for a long period of time at this point. We know his work ethic, we know his drive and we have seen him as a talented passer in this league. We are looking forward to him getting healthy and continuing to make improvements. We expect him to bounce back next year.”

There is a path to success for Mayfield at the NFL level. He displayed much of that path through his play in 2020 from the mid-point on. He’s given us a recent glimpse. The league has been attacking Mayfield’s weaknesses since his arrival as a rookie. He must adapt.

For the best foot forward, Mayfield must clean up his mechanics and tendencies prior to the ball leaving his hand. He controls that outcome. He has to own the mistakes made so far in his career and commit to a process for improvement.

He has to make those schemed throws he missed too often in 2021. He has to trust his eyes and stop the double clutching on answers sitting right in front of his face.


The Browns have every right to worry about the physical side of Mayfield's game, but there needs to be a consideration if the physical side this year did more damage to the mental side and whether he can get back that confidence that appears to be waning. By the end of the year he was a shell of his previous self.

Tom House talked about this exact issue.

"(Losing confidence) is something that is not unusual. It happens in baseball, it happens in golf. It breaks your heart when you watch it going on because you can only do so much until they reach out. It usually takes a village to help these kids navigate the waters that they are in now."

In the past, Mayfield has declined the notion of needing a private quarterback coach or to rework his mechanics. Is Mayfield willing to reach out now given the issues we see? Is he willing to chase the help he needs this off-season to give him the hard truth about who he is as a quarterback? If he’s willing to swallow some of that ego and pride, he can resurface as a quality quarterback, but the ball is in his court.

If the Browns can get Mayfield back on track with an improved set of pass catchers then the offense will trend back toward the dominant versions we saw not too long ago. If you get a repeat of 2021’s results then it does not bode well for anyone’s future.

The pressure is on.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...field-2021-issues-179946380/#179946380_1

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Didn’t we already have all these Baker conversations six months ago?

We did, but with a new allegation, talk about the "tip of the iceberg" and so on, some people have a new or invigorated spirit.


peen..I might be wrong, but I believe cfrs is referring to the rehashing of the Mayfield talk...not the Watson allegations.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Didn’t we already have all these Baker conversations six months ago?

We did, but with a new allegation, talk about the "tip of the iceberg" and so on, some people have a new or invigorated spirit.

Apparently enough to try and derail the "Will Watson be the Browns starting QB this season..?" thread.

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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Didn’t we already have all these Baker conversations six months ago?

We did, but with a new allegation, talk about the "tip of the iceberg" and so on, some people have a new or invigorated spirit.


peen..I might be wrong, but I believe cfrs is referring to the rehashing of the Mayfield talk...not the Watson allegations.


No, you aren't wrong. My comments are about the Mayfield discussion. With the talk on Watson, it just intensifies the discussion about baker and letting him go or maybe letting him play this season. The two are related to a degree in that sense.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Didn’t we already have all these Baker conversations six months ago?

We did, but with a new allegation, talk about the "tip of the iceberg" and so on, some people have a new or invigorated spirit.

Apparently enough to try and derail the "Will Watson be the Browns starting QB this season..?" thread.


[color:#FFFFCC]Lex...I think everyone knows what a couple of DT members are attempting to do by re-airing their complaints about Mayfield in this WATSON THREAD. Repeating the same Mayfield bias over and over serves no logical purpose other than attempting to change the subject of the thread. If those BOYS want to attempt to hijack the subject matter of this thread...have at it BOYS...but don't you dare complain when you get the same treatment for your threads in the future.

The Watson situation has me sick to my stomach, knowing that those who claimed to do their homework got outdone by the lady reporter from the NYT who actually did do her homework investigating Watson and the Texans. Just how much more might be learned about what Watson and Texans did and how much the Browns knew when they made the deal for Watson could determine the future of the Browns franchise under the Haslam ownership

The question becomes...did the Browns simply 'screw themselves' by failing to do their homework by NOT doing a thorough investigation or did they fall for the deal assuming the Texans were being honest and up front about the Texans own involvement..?

Now the Browns are going to be forced to 'do their homework' or suffer the consequences with no excuses.


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No one on this board is disputing that Baker has issues playing the QB position in the NFL...no one. I've seen videos by Jake Burns before - he is very knowledgeable about the position AND the player. There are (have-been) many, many contributing factors to Baker's play - rehashed here time and again - with most of the responsibility for his play Baker's own warts. You are arguing with yourself there^.

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Maybe you can go back and read all the old Mayfield threads so we don’t have to discuss subject to this again.

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No, I believe they are "super necessary."

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My worst fears as a fan of the Browns is rearing its ugly head. I was skeptical of the trade and gave my reasons. It had nothing to do with football talent, nothing to do with Watson vs. Baker.

We had a bird in the hand and let it go for the two in the bush. If this wasn't all Haslam then Berry/Stefanski should both be fired. They didn't vet this properly I do blame them. Also I blame them with how they treated Baker and burnt the bridge.


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
No, I believe they are "super necessary."

I agree. That’s why I think you should go back and read them. All the people you are currently arguing have already stated their opinions more than once.

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Perhaps you should talk to the two guys who called me out for making an accurate assessment during what had been a civil conversation. Referring to me as ignorant is not the way to shut me up. In fact, that is why I posted the three videos. I would have let my comments die had I not been called ignorant and biased. The more they insult me, the stronger my resolve becomes.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I have tried my best to not reply to Pit and 888 due to their constant lies about what I have said.

rofl


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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