DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Watson be the Browns starting QB this season..?

What a waste. The team is built to win now and we will be watching a second-string scrub QB struggle all season. 10 games are not enough for the Browns to try and salvage the Baker situation, but I think a season would be. Next year we will lose several key players who just don't want to be part of the circus again. Screw Haslam.

We watched Baker struggle all season last season and the team had a sub .500 record. Baker is the one who asked to be traded. Baker is not the victim that he and his fan base claim he is.

I agree he handled things poorly, but I also think he was blindsided. As for last year, you won't convince me it was on Baker. Injury and OBJ are what I think happened last year... But you have every right to your opinions and neither of us will ever prove the other wrong. At this point, other than thinking the browns might not scrap the season and play Baker if DW is out all year, I accept he's done in Cleveland. That really has little to do with where we are now with more piling on DW. I just don't see him proving his innocence in any way shape or form. So now people like me, maybe you too idk, have to decide if you can root for a DW-led team in the future. Assuming this doesn't end up going back to the criminal courts and he is available to play in the future. What a mess. Just hard to believe. We get right to the edge of being true contenders just to have the rug yanked out from under us with stupid moves. Juju was right, and that kills me.

BTW, for the record, I think Baker will get a starting role at some point in the near future and I think he will have a Brees-like career outside of Cleveland. Time will tell.

j/c

Johnny Football won the Fan Controlled Football league, maybe Haslam can overpay him too.

As I said… this only goes up in noise and intensity until some kind of resolve, either from him or the league. He and his legal team could have gotten in front of this, settled as much as they could and taken a lot of wind out of these now very full sails, but he refused and the Browns didn’t require it and now it ends in tears in July. If he gets anything less than a full season I’ll be very surprised. This will go down as one of the biggest trade disasters in the history of the league.

I respect your opinion on the Baker/OBJ thing and while I disagree, I won't argue w/you because we all have a right to our opinions. Kobe won 5 chips after a rape charge. Ben won 2 Chips. Ray Lewis won a couple despite murder allegations. A. Peterson whipped his own son's private areas w/a switch. T. Hill beat up his girlfriend and allegedly his son. Mixon cold-cocked a girl because she was defending a gay friend. The list goes on and on and on. I don't see you guys saying that KC fans should dismiss their Super Bowl because of Hill or that the Laker's Chips don't count because of Kobe, etc, etc, etc.

I think Watson's crimes, if they are even true, are not as bad as the others and so yes, I will be rooting for the Browns and won't feel a SB trophy would be tarnished. But again, I would NEVER blame a fan of the team to part ways w/the Browns because they are morally conflicted. It's an individual decision. I will admit that it's annoying that so many want to convince others to not root for the Browns or Watson. Again, it's an individual decision and no one should be shamed into either rooting for the Browns or abandoning the team. It's a game. It's not a life decision that will change the world. A game.

superbowldogg...here a few more additional details about the two new lawsuits to be filed against Watson.



Report: Two more lawsuits to be filed against Deshaun Watson

Posted by Mike Florio on June 13, 2022, 8:30 PM EDT
link

The bad news still is not subsiding for Deshaun Watson.

KPRC 2 in Houston reports that two more lawsuits will be filed against the Browns quarterback. Watson currently faces 24 lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct during massage therapy sessions.
The report doesn’t say whether the two new plaintiffs will be represented by Houston attorney Tony Buzbee. He currently represents all 24 of the women who have sued Watson.

If the report is true, the extra lawsuits underscore the fact that new information can surface at any time. It makes it more difficult for the NFL to make a final decision on a potential suspension, and it makes paid leave until all cases are filed and resolved arguably even more appropriate.

The Commissioner took paid leave off the table in late March. Recent developments arguably should prompt the league to revisit that decision. The league declined comment last week in response to two different inquiries aimed at determining whether the circumstances had changed regarding the possibility of Watson being placed on the Commissioner Exempt list.

‘Defcon 1′: Two more lawsuits to be filed against former Texans QB Deshaun Watson, bringing total to 26, sources say

click2Houston.com, Nakia Cooper, Digital Managing Editor
Published: June 13, 2022, 6:03 PM
Updated: June 13, 2022, 6:35 PM
link


Legal woes continue for former Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson as attorney Tony Buzbee is in the process of filing two more lawsuits against the embattled NFL star, bringing the total number to 26, KPRC 2 has learned.

The amount of accusers is rising after more women come forward, claiming that Watson had inappropriate contact with them during massage therapy sessions.

KPRC2 legal analyst Brian Wice says Watson faces a tough outlook.

“With each additional lawsuit, this litigation continues to reach Defcon 1,” Wice said. “Deshaun Watson is caught in a West Texas hailstorm. He can’t run. He can’t hide and he can’t make it stop.”

The case has captivated headlines across the nation, as one sordid story after another unfolds from the alleged victims. Watson has been cleared of any criminal charges, but the matter has become a civil issue. Still, he and his attorney, Rusty Hardin, maintain Watson’s innocence.
From the beginning, Buzbee has been representing each accuser, saying his number one goal is to get justice.

After the 24th lawsuit was filed last week, Buzbee said the “courageous women who, despite ridicule, legal shenanigans, and intense media scrutiny, continue to stand firm for what is right.”

The first 22 lawsuits were filed in March and April of 2021. Afterward, more women came forward, with some even conducting interviews on HBO’s “Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel.”

Watson has been accused by massage therapists of harassing, assaulting or touching them during appointments when he was with the Houston Texans. Documents show he found most of the women through the social media platform Instagram. In most instances, the women were paid amounts as low as $100 for their services.

In many of the complaints on record, women claim that Watson exposed himself and masturbated in front of them, rarely offering any apologies for his alleged conduct.

Hardin admits that Watson had consensual sexual activity with three of the women, but stressed that the NFL superstar did not force anyone to do anything against their will. The famed attorney came under some scrutiny recently after he said, during a radio interview, that “happy endings” were not against the law.

Watson, a three-time Pro Bowl QB, has recently inked a fully guaranteed five-year, $230 million contract with the Cleveland Browns despite his legal entanglements and pending cases.

In addition to the legal woes, Watson is also facing a possible suspension from the NFL, which is independently investigating his behavior to see if he violated the league’s personal conduct policies.

Right now his 2022 record are worse then old Baker.

26 civil law suits against but only a couple of happy endings. Negative numbers never looks good.

I agree. I will also add that IMO the opinion to move on from Baker wasn't so much the FO or ownership as it was the coach. I think Stefanski and his staff grew weary of Baker and pretty much told Berry and Haslam they didn't want him anymore.

Had the coaching staff been in Bakers corner, none of this would have gone down. The staff could have gotten around Bakers injury and been good to go for this season except they could no longer get around his attitude.

The seeds for this move were planted before Watson became available. Once the option of going after someone better than Baker became real, they jumped.

j/c:

I think the idea that the Browns won't play Baker because he will light it up and make them look bad is {choosing wording carefully} wildly incorrect.

I get that, but the talk is what if he lit it up... bad look.

On The Pat McAfee Show, NFL Network's Ian Rapoport said the league is expected to make a ruling sometime before training camp commences in late July. While he believes Watson will likely face a suspension, the length remains uncertain. Rapoport speculated anywhere from four to 10 games, which he acknowledged is a huge gap for a 17-game season.

Possibly so. I still think there were some other factors in play.

That said, as far as improving the roster, I agree with the thinking, but I also think there comes a point where maybe you could replace a player with someone better, but you also become satisfied with what you have.

I guess what I am saying is unless you have the absolute best player at a position, then you can always improve on that player, at least in theory. That doesn't mean you should. Things like team chemistry and level of play come in to the mix.

I agree, unless it's found in some way that Texas hid things and lied to the Browns.. But in the end, I agree, they are gone

This is probably why there is a disconnect on here. I don't think the Browns were "satisfied with what" they had. I also think they believed that "team chemistry" needed improved and they were looking to move on from Baker because of what he brought to both the locker room and the field. These are also the main [but not the only] reasons why other teams have not traded for him.

tab, we understand the length of the current contract. However, how many teams have failed to re-sign top tier QBs once their contracts were ending? Rodgers? Mahomes? Allen? Wison---the last time his contract was expiring? Prescott? Brees? Stafford? Hell, even guys like Carr got new contracts and stayed w/their team. I mean.......just how many big-time QBs have signed w/other teams once they were eligible for free agency?

Exactly.
He doesn't have to light it up. As bad as he played last year, we were on the cusp of the playoffs. Better play in just one or two games and we'd have been in.
If he simply returns to the mean between his low point of last year and his high point of the end of 2020 and the start of 2021, then this team WILL make the playoffs and be making a run at it all.... and if THAT were to happen, you'd have a LOT of people asking why we ever bothered with the Watson Circus. Why would we throw away so many first round picks and so much money when we already had someone that could get us there? THAT is the point being made; not some hyperbolic "they're afraid of him lighting it up".

I completely agree.
"I think Stefanski and his staff grew weary of Baker and pretty much told Berry and Haslam they didn't want him anymore. "
^ that pretty much sums up what I've felt about this all along. I don't think Stefanski likes or wanted to deal with the cavalier personality of Baker.

I can see that - and I believe it was born out of the stresses and having to manage an injury plagued season and then the last few games the level of trust in each other was diminished/gone.

With that said - knowing Berry as an analytics guy - there is more than enough "WOW" to the analytics of Watson's numbers to think that Berry might have been high on Watson and pushed him as an option. I don't recall the article or when it was posted - but there was a breakdown on DW's numbers and making a case (are asking the question in an open sort of way) for him being the best QB in the league due to certain metrics in certain game stats. Tehy were eye popping.... but with all analytics you have to blend stats with wins/losses and what you see. Clearly DW is very good - the disconnect is how he has performed in the W/L column in the NFL. Many Baker detractors have long said it doesn't matter about how good the rest of the team is - he has to find a way to win.... It's been a major knock on him regardless of big leads given up by the D or other issues non-Baker related. Yet when we talk about play off wins, and winning overall in the NFL Watson suddenly gets a pass. And he played with a good team when he first came to the league. Just one more inconsistency with how the two are judged. The other glaring one is the demand for a trade DW made.

Certainly in terms of dynamics and factors/issues .... this decision had many angles and honestly I don't know if we'll ever know the whole truth. Look at Johnny Manziel - I *think* that was a Haslam decision pulled out of his a$$, I've seen that reported and suggested, but I don't know if it is categorically known. And that was a far simpler situation.

For the sake of accuracy, the Texans were 3 and 4 w/Watson and 1 and 8 w/out him during Watson's rookie season. Not sure if that qualifies Houston as a good team???

If we want to be accurate we should say one of those wins was against an 0-16 Cleveland Browns. In case that makes a difference.

In 2018 the Texans didn't have a first or second round draft pick and the free agent acquisitions were average - Tyron Mathieu the highlight.

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...ree-agency-summary-and-salary-cap-update
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/26/houston-texans-nfl-draft-picks-selections-grades

So I'd say yes - the core of the 2018 team was from 2017 and they went on to a 11-5 record in 2018. They were hurt by injury in 2017 to DW and JJ Watt - but they were a good team. Many good teams with a back up QB the quality of Tom Savage would struggle to win. If we want to be THAT accurate.

I think it's (fairly) obvious that most of the disconnect was amplified by Mayfield's injury... and probably a difference of opinion concerning him "sitting". If you backtrack the "five month odyssey", the beginning takes place within days of the game they benched him. After getting blown out by the Cards on October 17th, Keenum started against the Broncos on October 21st -- we signed Watson on March 18th -- five months and one day after the Cards game.

j/c...

Watson speaking to the media.....live.

https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1536752072271462400

I am not saying your opinion is wrong, but I think way too much is being excused due to his injury. There is evidence out there that most of his bad throws had nothing to do w/his injury and instead centered around poor pre-snap reads, struggles w/going through post snap reading of coverages, struggling to throw from the pocket once teams schemed to keep him in the said pocket, folding when pressured, holding the ball too long, terrible numbers on 3rd down, the worst 4th quarter QBR in the league, ranking 31st since entering the league in QBR in one-score games in the 4th quarter, his terrible Expected completion percentage, etc than it had to do w/the injury and the Browns realized these things. It's why they didn't give him a new contract after his "good" year and has a lot to do w/them wanting to find an upgrade. The personality stuff almost assuredly played a significant role in the decision, as evidenced by a guy like Scott Pioli, a former GM and Player Personnel guy, saying that he would not bring in Baker to his team after Baker's podcast. It was Pioli who talked about Baker being a victim.

Again, just opinions. But, for Baker to be in this situation, I am almost 100% certain that his injury is not the reason why there is so little interest in him by the Browns or any other team.

I couldn't watch it but I saw some tweets discussing it. The gist I got was that he wants to clear his name, says he didn't do anything wrong such as forcing himself or assaulting anyone, and won't settle.....

...Was that accurate?

Yes. And it was answered about five times. He held up and expressed himself really well. I hope that holds true as the barrage continues.

Pretty much. "Has to respect the legal process and let it play out."

I did not hear him say he won't settle. He did say he can't/won't discuss the settlement talks last year when Miami was looking trade for him.

Here's one clip...

I agree, but I'm not sure if he was adamant about not settling or if it was more along the lines of clearing his name. I'd have to watch again and I can't do that. LOL

I think the bigger message was him just focusing on him being the best version of himself for his family, the organization, the community, and himself moving forward. I thought he handled himself well, too. I don't think I could be as calm, courteous, and composed as he was. Of course, some will find a few lines and run w/them to paint him in an even more negative light, but I think he handled it about as well as possible.

With a torn labrum and other injuries throughout the season. Why do you always seem to forget to add that part? We know why. watson is certainly a better QB "on the field" than Baker is, but your omissions certainly paint your bias.

aka... Talks a good game.

I generally support Stefanski but if you can’t handle big egos or prima donnas you’re going to struggle mightily as a coach in the nfl. Part of being the leader of extraordinary talent, whether it’s on a sports field or in a corporate or academic environment is learning how to channel people. If you need people to essentially stay within a box in terms of professional demeanor, you’re not going to hang on to or command the attention and respect of highly talented people. Just sayin. Big egos, fiery personalities and mercurial temperaments come with the exceptional talent. Learn to work with it.

I’ll just say this also about Watson and that little presser… if he’s really and truly innocent and all of this is just a lawyer engineered crisis to drain a star athlete of his money AND he has the any actual ability to prove it, to actually clear his name…
then I wholeheartedly support him standing in there and suffering whatever slings and arrows he needs to in order to clear his name.

BUT… if there’s even one instance where in his heart of hearts he knows he maybe kinda sorta crossed the line (or more), then not doing everything in his power to end all of this as soon as possible is almost unforgivable. Every time I see him speak I just don’t buy it. Coupled with the fact that so many have the same account of him, it’s just so bald faced. What’s the most nauseating aspect of this is that he’s willing to drag everyone down with him to keep up the charade. What an “adult”.

With 26 civil law suits coming from 26 different women, and more women seems to be willing to come forward, the only suitable solution for the NFL is to put Watson on paid leave until all cases is totally solved, either by settlement or in court. What other options is available?

Any sorts of limited suspension could easily backfire against the Commissioner in any moment. As long as there’s uncertainty about if it’s potentially a criminal case there’s no chance of him playing in 2022, on top of all the civil law suits and if they are financially settled outside the court or the legal process in finished. If he continues to fight for his innocence and prefer to go to court we potentially talk about a comeback in a best case scenario late 2023 and in a worse case scenario in 2024 or 2025, all depending on how long it will take. I say for every case to be judged it probably takes one or two week for preparation and one week inside the court room, and that time line isn’t unreasonable in any way. The jury can use several weeks before they decide any outcome, and we talk about 26 separate juries.

Those of you who think this is nonsense wait and see.

Times has changed and sexual harassment on a scale that Watson is involved with isn’t something the public opinion any longer take lightly. Look at Amber Heard. All her lies and her refusal to accept any sort of guilt made her case totally impossible to win, both in the court and the eye of the public opinion.

Team Watson and the Browns need to change strategy, the one they use at the moment doesn’t work. Just look at social media and what the biggest media houses reports, almost all of them think it’s impossible that all these 26 women are lying. It’s just too many to ignore.

Here is what I see with the issue. Two cases came out last week. It's reported that at least two more cases are coming. Then there's the New York times article. That's just what we know about as of today. So how does the NFL think they can claim they have the time to "thoroughly investigate" these latest allegations plus the flood of information that keeps pouring in by July? I see it much the same way you do. The paid leave idea seems quite plausible. I think it's also important to remember that all of these cases have been postponed and aren't to be tried until next off season. If the NFL is truly interested in getting all of the facts, it seems logical they would wait for any final decisions based on those cases. Each possibly on an individual basis.