DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Watson be the Browns starting QB this season..?

It's all hard to say.

For the most part I think we should just let the process play out before making judgements. I know it is difficult at times, and it doesn't help this is the dead part of the season so there isn't really much to talk about without creating something to talk about.

Agreed.

A policewoman who investigated the case said she beloved crimes were committed. Some division on whether she should have said it, whether she just wanted 15 minutes of fame, whether or not she had an agenda because she did not interview DW..... I believe it's significant since she is the closest thing to a neutral. She's not part of the NFL and she is not part of either party.

Each to their own. Fire every possibility that she's seeking fame theses also the possibility she is telling the truth.

Again agreed. I guess when there is a new piece of information... Actual new not just Busbee or Rusty saying stuff.... Then folks will express an opinion.

Nah, it's more important that we all think he is guilty and crucify him before he is convicted in a court of law.

You've crucified Baker over and over about schtick that you form opinions on that are based on hearsay, gossip, third party opinions by talking heads ..... hell you state that most of Baker's bad throws last year didn't have anything to do with a torn labarum, broken humerus and other leg.ankle injuries that he had for 15 1/2 games of the season, based on conjecture and opinion. It's opinion that comes with a video and you call it "fact". It's cool for you to do that because you don't like Baker - but the guy with 24 women accusing him of sexual abuse, pay offs to 'Spa' owners, 66 different 'therapists' in 17 months and a police officer who worked the cases who says she believes DW committed crimes .... yeah - HE's off limits. Makes perfect sense.

I can't imagine the FO and ownership aren't starting to sweat all this bad PR. What a mess.

For the record............I stand by my comments that most of Baker's poor throws were due to his inability to make good pre-snap reads, his struggles w/reading coverages post-snap, his ineptitude when having to throw from the pocket, bad vision, poor pocket presence, bad decisions, etc. I have provided multiple articles and video analysis of these claims over the years. I do think his injury was a factor, but it was largely insignificant in terms of his overall play due to teams figuring him out. If one really looks into it, Baker plays better when a new coach takes over. Once the opponents have time to adjust, Baker's weaknesses rear their ugly head time and time again. Meanwhile, his fans then blame the very same coaches that he had success under. The Fabulous Baker Boys can throw their weight around all they want, but that does not change the fact that Baker is a bottom tier starter and the Browns wanted to move on from him. It also doesn't change the fact that not one team has been willing to trade for Baker. Folks can bash other posters w/venom, but I stand by my evaluations and I know a hell of a lot more about QB play than those trashing my analysis.

Are you gonna leave again if Jimmy 180s and gets him to play this year? You can't reasonably think that isn't on the table for the FO at this point. I mean, sure there will be groveling and compromise, but Baker doesn't want to be at home on Sundays, and NOBODY in the FO wants to start the other two over Baker because he's the best chance to win if DW is out for the season. Am I wrong?

I would laugh my ass off if it plays out like that and Baker takes us to a Super Bowl, only to be out the second it's over. This team earned that ish (karma).

OCD, this is not a post where I am attacking you. At all. I know you really like Baker and want him to be here. I respect that. There are a ton of great Baker fans, such as Dave, Fate, Homes, etc. But dude burned his bridges. He's gone. I think that decision was made quite some time ago. He should have never trashed his HC and then decided to not even involve the team about whether or not he would play in the last game of the final.

I think the Browns wanted to move on and that is why they didn't give him a new contract like the one Josh Allen got. They wanted to see more. They didn't. They probably did not like the OBJ/Baker feud. They probably did not like all the excuses he made. I am pretty sure they were exploring other options, including Watson, during the season. But, Baker let his immaturity rear it's ugly head and I don't see any way they will bring him back.

Not asking you to agree. Just giving you my view on things since you asked. And again, I am not arguing w/you. Just stating my take on the situation.

Oh, I loved Baker, but I've accepted that he's gone or soon will be. But I also know the greed of NFL franchises. Baker is STILL here due to many circumstances and both sides are pissed at a minimum in their relationships respective to each other. But the way this thing is CURRENTLY shaping up, I 100% believe it's a viable outcome and will be in the best interest of both Baker and the FO to make happen, should DW not be available that is. Baker playing, especially lights out, would be the best possible outcome for both. Baker is stuck here and guaranteed $18.5 million even if he sits on his ass all year. That's a pure loss for Jimmy and company. But have you ever known Baker to not want to play? Ever? So playing Baker in DW prolonged absence would actually be a win-win with the Browns fielding their best remaining QB on the roster, not just flushing $18.5 million, while it gives Baker another chance to prove himself to the league. And I know you don't think Baker doesn't want that opportunity after being rejected again. It makes perfect sense, under those conditions. And not trying to offend, but it's kind of baffling to me, that you can't see that.

We'll see. I say he is gone. He burned too many bridges due to his immaturity and arrogance.

You think they play Jacoby over Baker if nobody tries to get him, assuming DW can not play this year? With this loaded team? I know in your mind there isn't much of a drop-off between the two, but that is the crazy talk if you ask me. Baker has shown himself to be better, even if it did require circumstances to be just so. What has Jacoby shown?

It was. I wasn't trying to say it was with our trade. I was just speaking about the suit in general terms. Any of the outside teams is of no real consequence to Buzbee or the plaintiffs.

After disrespecting half the population through Watson trade, Haslams should sell the Browns

Published: Jun. 12, 2022, 1:26 p.m.
By Other Voices
link


I’m a 62-year-old Cleveland native, and lifelong, devoted Browns fan. Browns fans like me have endured a lot and have sometimes questioned our loyalty. Periods of despair were rooted in the frustration of witnessing ongoing failure and ineptitude. While years of missteps left fans questioning their devotion, supporters could ultimately push aside the organization’s shortcomings because, hey, it was just sports.


But now, Dee and Jimmy Haslam, you have made the biggest economic and future-crushing blunder in the history of professional sports, and contributed to the degradation of countless women. Not only was the Deshaun Watson trade the worst business decision in sports history, but it also alienated sports fans globally, and disrespected half the entire population. Yes, I am one of those fans repelled by the way you have forever tarnished my team. I’m too revolted and too depressed to reconcile holding the team near and dear.

You’ve forced me and countless others to grieve the loss of a lifelong love. You’ve made Art Modell look good by comparison. You’ve made the Browns a pariah. It’s time for you to sell the team, to salvage whatever remote chance there may be for it to be respected once again.

Jim Ack,

Salt Lake City, Utah

Yes and no.

If the police have reasonable cause, they can arrest you. They should arrest you. That is how the system works. That however isn't the same as Watson having to prove innocence. The police enforce laws. They don't make guilt determinations. It would be stupid for the police to say they didn't think he may have broken the law, then book him anyway.

OCD, it's not my decision. I am saying that I think the Browns have moved on from Baker and that he won't be back w/the team. I could be wrong. We'll see.

I am glad that the Browns are trying to win and I disagree w/Jim Ack and other like-minded fans.

Baker *is* better, and they will play Basset ahead of him.
I don't think the FO wants any part of taking a chance that they play Baker and he does well enough for people to ask Why we even bothered to make this nightmare trade that has done nothing but create negative drama. They aren't going to sign up for having more crap piled on them.

So you think they will CYA their mistake with another mistake? I could see that, I just think winning is more important to them because the team built to win is in a narrow window. We'll see. For all we really know now, DW will play this year. But if he doesn't, and Baker is still under contract, it will get very interesting IMO. Not playing Baker could do just as much or more damage than the scenario you painted. Think about it, they've already alienated a large part of the fanbase. Sitting on a "willing to play" Baker would do a lot more alienating. But if Baker publically refuses, they would be off the hook. Like I said in the other thread, too many variables right now, but the decision on DW is coming, and if he's out, I guess we'll see how it plays out.

It's their go to. undermine and attack the character of anyone and everyone who speaks out against watson. Their lawyer Buzzbee? Well he must be a scum bag. The 24 women? Well you know all massage therapists are hookers, right? Now even a cop who worked with the team that did the investigation said the entire team believed his guilt? Well she's just looking for 15 minutes of fame.

Correct. I do not doubt it for even a second.
I think it is 100% "cut off your nose to spite your face" territory for them.

Greg Cote: Why Browns’ Deshaun Watson faces, deserves lengthy NFL suspension over massage scandal

Greg Cote, Miami Herald 3 hrs ago
link


MIAMI — Anybody still doubt Deshaun Watson is guilty? Anybody at all? I mean besides Watson’s lawyer and any remaining gullible, hope-blind Cleveland Browns fans still unable to admit their would-be savior quarterback turned out to be a predatory creep and a colossal embarrassment to the franchise and the NFL.

Wait. I hear somebody shouting “innocent until proven guilty!” while shaking an angry fist.

Not sure where you learned your math, indignant friend, but when I hear 24 different women accuse one man of the same tawdry behavior and are willing to say it under oath in a lawsuit and civil trial, I believe the women. And I believe the accused is lying.

(That’s two dozen women-plus, by the way, based on that New York Times report indicating many more women were involved in Watson’s pattern of harassment and unwanted sexual advances against massage therapists).

The fact two Texas grand juries failed to indict Watson on criminal charges isn’t nothing, but neither does it outweigh the testimony of 24 women and the NYT report that Watson engaged 66 women in all in a 17-month period through spring of 2021.

You know, by the way, Deshaun, there are plenty of really good male massage therapists, too. Hmm. Probably just coincidence that you chose only women, huh?

It seems more and more likely the NFL will and should bring the hammer down on Watson in terms of punishment and suspension for such a continuous and rather vile betrayal of the league’s personal conduct policy. One therapist accuser detailed how Watson masturbated and intentionally ejaculated on her. Vile stuff.

The only way Watson is innocent here is if 24 strangers are all accusing him of the same thing in an odds-defying collusion of lies. And unless that Times report unearthed different women also in on the conspiracy.

The NFL simply cannot and must not betray these women and its own sense of honor by doing nothing.

Larry Nasser’s victims this week sued the FBI for failing to act on information that Nasser was sexually abusing female gymnasts. I am not likening what Watson is accused of to what put Nasser behind bars, except to say the NFL must not do now what the FBI is accused of: Look the other way and do nothing.

Commissioner Roger Goodell admitted he blew it in 2014 by suspending Ray Rice a mere two games without pay for an assault of a woman with video proof. Said he won’t err like that again. Time to prove it with Watson.

Punishment is no longer the sole purvey of Goodell, though. The NFL now has a chief discipline officer who metes out punishment based on the league’s investigation. She is Sue L. Robinson, a former federal judge. And Watson will be her first case.

The league (Goodell) would propose a punishment, then Robinson would decide the discipline/punishment. Goodell then would have final jurisdiction over any appeal by the league or by Watson. In effect, Robinson would issue the first decision on punishment, but Goodell still has the final say.


Nearly as galling as Watson’s alleged repeated gross behavior is his insistence, in March, that, “I have never disrespected a woman.”

I believe 24 women (at least) would disagree.

Those grand juries failing to bring criminal charges gave Watson an opening to try honesty as a strategy. To admit he’d done stupid stuff, gotten carried away. To admit something, some culpability. An iota of remorse. An apology, perhaps?

Instead Watson digs in deeper, doubles down on how a multitude of women are the liars here.

As public opinion mounts against him.

And as the NFL decides how hard the hammer will fall.

Sounds like somebody's butt hurt that the dolphins lost the DW sweepstakes.

Or he’s just a journalist with an opinion on a subject. An opinion that many people agree with.

Does anyone know if we really DO have a way to void the trade if the crap keeps piling up in the barn?

So what I think you are saying is, if DW is shelved for a year, we pay Baker to play... If he refuses, we're off the hook? That makes sense.. What if he says, OK, I'll play, but the paycheck needs to be $40 million? (that won't work of course because he's under contract, just having a little fun)

Is it at all possible that there is no decision on Baker because we don't know the extent of the DW suspension that is expected?

Baker is way better than anyone else we have... That much is clear to all but a few posters on here.

Short suspension for DW, deal Baker, play Brisett, deal with whatever happens....

I don't think any of us know for certain, but it wouldn't be the first case of a team recovering guaranteed monies for a violation of the personal conduct policy. I wouldn't hold my breath over it, though.

So the draft picks are likely gone no matter what, or do we even know that?

Or, he knew he would get a lot of clicks w/that particular title.

lamp, the Browns said they are not going to void the contract. Think about it.......even if DW is suspended for a year, the team will still have one of the best qbs for perhaps the next 10 years or so. Salaries are going to continue to escalate. Just watch and see what Lamar gets.

They say that now, but that doesn’t mean it can’t change. Depending on how full the barn gets.

I think you can absolutely take that one as gospel. They're gone.

Caveat Emptor

I don’t think so fan. I think those reports of a level two hurricane blowing from Miami up the east coast of florida was actually 100,000 dolphins fans breathing a collective sigh of relief that they dodged this bullet.

You know what I miss purple? I miss seeing reports on nfl network or espn about how good the browns running backs are, the depth of our defensive backfield or how we our o line is going to be. Instead I see reports of how many new women are accusing our qb of sexual improprieties or how long they think our qb will be suspended.

Unfortunately, that is who we are, now. This story and everything about it IS the face of this franchise.

I wondered when the women's attorney added Houston into the lawsuit if maybe they knew or acted in ways to cover up for DW or intentionally withheld facts from the Browns. That is the only way I see the NFL undoing the deal and returning picks. Extreme long shot at best IMO. I think we're stuck with I'm no matter what happens TBH.

That would have been my hope as well. The buzz now is Watson will get at least 10 games to show the NFL doesn't play games and to eat up a contract year to punish the Browns for creating this mess.

I thought the "buzz" from Ian Rapoport that you posted in the other forum said 4 to 10 games? I would think that the inside info from him and Shefty are more reliable than a reporter reacting to his comments, but that's just me.