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2nd String
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OP
2nd String
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So I've been thinking about Phil Dawson. Should we move on or should we keep him? Since kickers last such a long time, it makes sense to draft one than grab one in the FA. Often times when a kicker gets cut and goes FA he is damaged goods like Vanderjagt. So I decided to see how new kickers tend to pan out their first and second year, and then their career totals. I collected all this data and computed it from NFL.com. It took me quite about a half hour to put this post together.
Here is some data I collected. I did this manually so a few numbers might be off and its also not every kicker in the league because that would have taken me forever, but this is for 22 kickers.
Player | First Year Good Field Goal Percentage | Second Year Good FIeld Goal Percentage | Career Field Goal Percentage
Morten Anderson | 40% | 75% | 79%
David Akers | 0% | 50% | 81%
Rob Bironas | 78% | 78% | 83%
Josh Brown | 73% | 92% | 80%
Matt Bryant | 81% | 78% | 80%
Kris Brown | 86% | 83% | 77%
Mason Crosby | 76% | N/A | 76%
Phil Dawson | 66% | 82% | 82%
Jeff Wilkins | No Kicks | 92% | 82%
Adam Vinateri | 77% | 86% | 82%
Lawrence Tynes | 73% | 81% | 79%
Robbie Gould | 77% | 89% | 83%
Stephen Gostkowski | 76% | 91% | 81%
Jason Hanson | 79% | 80% | 81%
Shaun Suisham | 75% | 50% | 80%
Natt Stover | 72% | 72% | 84%
Lawerence Tynes | 73% | 81% | 79%
Orlando Mare | 77% | 81% | 89%
Jeff Reed | 89% | 71% | 89%
Matt Bryant | 81% | 78% | 80%
Jason Elam | 74% | 81% | 80%
Kris Brown | 86% | 83% | 77%
Average for First Year: 71%
Average for Second Year: 78%
Average for Career Totals: 85%
Phil's Last Few Years
2007: 85%
2006: 72%
2005: 93%
2004: 82%
2003: 85%
2002: 78%
2001: 88%
2000: 82%
1999: 66%
Phil's Career Total Average: 82.4%
So say we grab a new kicker. On average, out of these 22 kickers, they're going to make 71% of their field goals their first year. So far this year, Dawson has made 85% of his kicks. So say we bring in a new kicker next year and dump Dawson. We may be looking at getting 14% LESS field goals than we did this year. Dawson doesn't make em all, and FG % isn't the only thing he is good for. Obviously, good/long kickoffs count for something too. I just think that looking at this raw data, we are better to stick with our veteran. We also don't know if we are going to get a guy like David Akers who was absolutely horrible his first two years.
Phil may not look the sharpest anymore, but I say keep him. He does a decent job and I'd rather have someone with some relatively consistency in there than a new guy. Phil's last few years have been decent.
2007 Phil = 85%
2006 Phil = 72%
2005 Phil = 93%
I think we also have to attribute the fact that recently (like the Oakland game) we were extremely hard on Phil because he lost hte game for us. But you also have tot think... How maynt eimes in the past were we getting whooped on so bad that 3 points really didn't matter anyway and the drama had little effect.
Also, we may be headed for the playoffs next year (as well as this year), and I'd much rather have Dawson in than some rookie. Dawson may view the post season as his chance to make his legacy, get his ring, and then retire. I'd rather see that happen than some rookie choke and then us thinking "gosh why did we cut Phil?"
Anyway... I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, especially since it took over a half hour for me to gather this info and put it together!
P.S. Thanks for reading it
Last edited by BrownsJK24; 11/22/07 08:57 AM.
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He is under contract through 2009 and the FO realizes that they have one of the best K in the league regardless of what is said by some unknowing people on this and other message boards.
No action needed.
Period.
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Nice stats and good work, but this Dawson talk is getting old. He is the LEAST of our problems; in fact, he isn't a problem but one of our more solid players IMO. It is unbelievable this type of talk is going on after he made a 51 yard field goal in an outdoor stadium to send us to OT last Sunday and then kicked the game winner  We need to drop this and concentrate on our defensive issues....
#gmstrong
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Legend
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WOW,, nice work on all the stats,,., But they are pretty much meaningless.. There are only about 3 or 4 posters on this entire board that think that Dawson is a problem,, had you looked around, you would have seen a monster discussion on the subject.. https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...p;vc=1&nt=3That was in the gameday forum for the Baltimore game.. Now it's titled looking back and will probably be removed by tomorrow or Saturday (not sure what day they take those down, but you should hurry to read it0 I can see you put a ton of effort into this but I'm sorry to tell you that you probably wasted your time.. But hey,, It's your time! 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If you want a real comparison, you need to break down which of those kickers kicked in Domes. How were their stats in the dome and outside of the dome. What were the conditions on each of their kicks (80 and sunny no wind? 50 and swirling winds of 15 to 20 MPH? 30 degrees and wind gusts of 30 to 40 MPH? ) Thats one of the things most people seem to want to ignore that can make a huge difference. A guy kicking inside a dome would have a much higher percentage than he would if he was always kicking outside in windy conditions. As would a warm weather kicker thats stadium had little wind.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Thus the reason I kinda felt the original poster on this thread wasted his time,, You have to look at everything in order to determine how valid the stats are.. I think this guy is really Navy with a different handle 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My only thing with Dawson is the short kickoffs.
I know that, at times, there has been talk that a short(er) kickoff is part of the coverage scheme...but, MAN...we sometimes kick the ball to the 10-15 yard line.
The weird thing is, I think he's still got the leg. That 51 yarder would have traveled at least another five yards.
He's certainly a keeper in my book...I'd just like to see some longer kickoffs.
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Rookie
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Keep him. He knows how to kick in the winds of Cleve in Nov & Dec.
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Quote:
one of the best K inthe leagu e regardless of what is said by some unknowing people on this and other message boards.
No action needed.
Period.
While most of us agree that Phil has been solid as a brown the criticisms arent solely of the "doesnt kick'em deep enough on kickoffs" variety anymore. Phil has brought much of the negative attention he has received the last few years on himself by being a bit less "automatic" than normal. I dont think it is time to bring in somebody else but I am not quite as comfortable with him as I once was. We certainly do not need to use a draft pick at this point. All it would take was Phil missing a BIG one in december or god forbid January and he would be gone. Tis the nature of things when you're a kicker. Kicker stats are some of the most misleading in the league because once you get past the accuracy measurable it is all circumstantial.
You simply cant compare Dawson to say .....Kris Brown who we will see this week.
I like Phil and he deserves the good fortune he had last week. I truly feel that there is something big getting ready to happen with this team, Whether it is a positive or negative remains to be seen.
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Legend
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Quote:
Phil has brought much of the negative attention he has received the last few years on himself by being a bit less "automatic" than normal.
he was almost perfect in 2005, he kicked with a sports hernia in 2006, and he has only missed ONE field goal that was makable this year.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
He is under contract through 2009 and the FO realizes that they have one of the best K in the league regardless of what is said by some unknowing people on this and other message boards.
No action needed.
Period.
Period is right...
Came to a conclusion long ago...This BS will never end...
There is VERY LITTLE negative that can be said about Dawson...
This one really gets me...His kickoffs can't get inside the 15...LMAO...Now they're consistently to the goal line...Damn he musta really strengthened that leg the last couple years...U go Dawson!!!...lmao...
Go Browns!!!
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Sports hernia or not he missed kicks last year. I try to explain why there is anti-dawson sentiment and then I get branded as a Dawson hater.
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All Pro
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Anybody seen Vinateri shanking figgies in the past few games? Nobody makes 100% of them, it's just that the very few that Phil has missed this year (his fault or not) have come in crucial times in close games. That certainly shifts a lot of fans' perception of him.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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All Pro
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Lawrence Tynes is on your list twice
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Legend
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Quote:
I try to explain why there is anti-dawson sentiment and then I get branded as a Dawson hater.
Oh I don't think your a hater man,, but for anyone to sit there and say this:
Quote:
Sports hernia or not he missed kicks last year.
It would be fair for anyone reading that to think you are a hater.. My god man,, you go out and try to WALK with a sports hernia and then come back in here and tell me that it doesn't matter... You are completely off the mark there man,,, completely..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Quote:
My only thing with Dawson is the short kickoffs.
I know that, at times, there has been talk that a short(er) kickoff is part of the coverage scheme...but, MAN...we sometimes kick the ball to the 10-15 yard line.
funny...my uncle just said this yesterday...
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
So I've been thinking about Phil Dawson. Should we move on or should we keep him? Since kickers last such a long time, it makes sense to draft one than grab one in the FA. Often times when a kicker gets cut and goes FA he is damaged goods like Vanderjagt. So I decided to see how new kickers tend to pan out their first and second year, and then their career totals. I collected all this data and computed it from NFL.com. It took me quite about a half hour to put this post together.
Here is some data I collected. I did this manually so a few numbers might be off and its also not every kicker in the league because that would have taken me forever, but this is for 22 kickers.
Player | First Year Good Field Goal Percentage | Second Year Good FIeld Goal Percentage | Career Field Goal Percentage
Morten Anderson | 40% | 75% | 79%
David Akers | 0% | 50% | 81%
Rob Bironas | 78% | 78% | 83%
Josh Brown | 73% | 92% | 80%
Matt Bryant | 81% | 78% | 80%
Kris Brown | 86% | 83% | 77%
Mason Crosby | 76% | N/A | 76%
Phil Dawson | 66% | 82% | 82%
Jeff Wilkins | No Kicks | 92% | 82%
Adam Vinateri | 77% | 86% | 82%
Lawrence Tynes | 73% | 81% | 79%
Robbie Gould | 77% | 89% | 83%
Stephen Gostkowski | 76% | 91% | 81%
Jason Hanson | 79% | 80% | 81%
Shaun Suisham | 75% | 50% | 80%
Natt Stover | 72% | 72% | 84%
Lawerence Tynes | 73% | 81% | 79%
Orlando Mare | 77% | 81% | 89%
Jeff Reed | 89% | 71% | 89%
Matt Bryant | 81% | 78% | 80%
Jason Elam | 74% | 81% | 80%
Kris Brown | 86% | 83% | 77%
Average for First Year: 71%
Average for Second Year: 78%
Average for Career Totals: 85%
Phil's Last Few Years
2007: 85%
2006: 72%
2005: 93%
2004: 82%
2003: 85%
2002: 78%
2001: 88%
2000: 82%
1999: 66%
Phil's Career Total Average: 82.4%
So say we grab a new kicker. On average, out of these 22 kickers, they're going to make 71% of their field goals their first year. So far this year, Dawson has made 85% of his kicks. So say we bring in a new kicker next year and dump Dawson. We may be looking at getting 14% LESS field goals than we did this year. Dawson doesn't make em all, and FG % isn't the only thing he is good for. Obviously, good/long kickoffs count for something too. I just think that looking at this raw data, we are better to stick with our veteran. We also don't know if we are going to get a guy like David Akers who was absolutely horrible his first two years.
Phil may not look the sharpest anymore, but I say keep him. He does a decent job and I'd rather have someone with some relatively consistency in there than a new guy. Phil's last few years have been decent.
2007 Phil = 85%
2006 Phil = 72%
2005 Phil = 93%
I think we also have to attribute the fact that recently (like the Oakland game) we were extremely hard on Phil because he lost hte game for us. But you also have tot think... How maynt eimes in the past were we getting whooped on so bad that 3 points really didn't matter anyway and the drama had little effect.
Also, we may be headed for the playoffs next year (as well as this year), and I'd much rather have Dawson in than some rookie. Dawson may view the post season as his chance to make his legacy, get his ring, and then retire. I'd rather see that happen than some rookie choke and then us thinking "gosh why did we cut Phil?"
Anyway... I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, especially since it took over a half hour for me to gather this info and put it together!
P.S. Thanks for reading it
I don't understand why this topic is brought up every single year. This has been our most stable position on this team since we returned to the NFL. Dawson is like the 2nd or 3rd most accurate kicker of All Time. Dawson's only drawback is he doesn't have a strong enough leg be consistant with 50+ yard field goals. Not many kickers have that ability though. I guarantee if you cut Phil in the offseason another team will have hin signed the first day of Free Agency he's that good, so quit beating a dead horse. Did Phil get us the win last week?
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Quote:
Dawson's only drawback is he doesn't have a strong enough leg be consistant with 50+ yard field goals.
It is interesting that he has that stigma attached to him...it's as if people forget where he plays his home games.
Who IS known for being consistent from 50+?
If he played in a warm weather city, a dome, or shoot...even a place that does not have the weird winds that CBS has, I don't think people would talk about that as much.
I go to games with a guy who says he cringes every time Dawson trots out on the field...I don't get it.
Other than the sports hernia year...the guy has been very reliable.
The anti-Dawson setiment - even as limited as it is - is downright strange. 
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You simply cant compare Dawson to say .....Kris Brown who we will see this week.
Sure you can. They've been in the league the same number of years. Dawson is 0.6% worse on PAT (he's missed 7 to Brown's 6), he has 3% more of his kickoffs returned (88 to 85%) but for 1 yard less per return, and Dawson has made 5% more of his FGs over the course of his career. Phil has kicked his entire career for the Browns; Brown kicked three seasons for the Steelers and the rest down in Houston. Brown's long kick is 57 yards, but over his career he's only hit 50% from 50+, to Dawson's 77%. In fact, Dawson's percentage is higher from every distance (20-29, 30-39, etc). I don't know how many game winners Brown has, but Dawson has a lot.
Overall, I'd say their careers have been rather comparable.
I get nervous when Dawson comes in to kick, but that's because I understand that, no matter what anyone may think, field goals are not "automatic" for any kicker.
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2nd String
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Quote:
Quote:
Dawson's only drawback is he doesn't have a strong enough leg be consistant with 50+ yard field goals.
It is interesting that he has that stigma attached to him...it's as if people forget where he plays his home games.
Who IS known for being consistent from 50+?
If he played in a warm weather city, a dome, or shoot...even a place that does not have the weird winds that CBS has, I don't think people would talk about that as much.
I go to games with a guy who says he cringes every time Dawson trots out on the field...I don't get it.
Other than the sports hernia year...the guy has been very reliable.
The anti-Dawson setiment - even as limited as it is - is downright strange.
Read my post again, nowhere in my statement do I give anything but support for Dawson. Maybe you should take a quote and smack somebody that dislikes Dawson instead of one of his supporters. Not cool dude. And to finish that sentence that you quoted I said not many kickers are consistant beyond 50+ yards but you failed to include that part in your quote. Wow right now I feel like I could smack you so hard your momma would feel it. 
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
Nice stats and good work, but this Dawson talk is getting old. He is the LEAST of our problems; in fact, he isn't a problem but one of our more solid players IMO. It is unbelievable this type of talk is going on after he made a 51 yard field goal in an outdoor stadium to send us to OT last Sunday and then kicked the game winner
We need to drop this and concentrate on our defensive issues....
If you find the Dawson talk getting old, don't open the topic. In fact, my post supports that we KEEP dawson, not get rid of him! As far as Damanshot with your 5000 posts or whatever on the forum... Get a life. I'm so tired of seeing forum lifers post on what is and what isn't acceptable topics. Let people post and have a fun discussion rather than ridicule fellow browns fans that try to put together a topic to have a nice and fun discussion. Who is Navy anyway? You think I am some other person with a two screennames on here? Give me a break. I don't post here enough to even fathom doing something like that. Is that some other poster I should know about? I don't spend all day here on Dawgtalkers so I wouldn't know.
And for those of you who say "why is this keep being brought up" my post actually supports KEEPING him. The reason I posted this was because I have heard a bunch of fans (Not on these forums) saying we need to dump the guy, etc etc. But whatever. Dawgtalkers used to be fun but it seems like half the board is full of a bunch of people that think they are elite because they have the time to put up 3000+ posts on an internet forum. Bah. I guess theres bad apples everywhere though. Sorry for those of you that are listening to my rant here, but I have had enough of it. The few that consider themselves the elite seem to ride the high horse on every thread they post in. I guess I should look around on this site for a way to ignore certain posters.
This whole thing just makes me feel bad now. I wanted to just have a little discussiona bout our kicker, but theres always someone that has to dictate what we can and can't talk about and if we "can't" talk about it, there is some great reason why you think that and can't just ignore it. With all the garbage i've seen you post before I just ignore it. I just hate to see you come in and screw with a thread that I put a lot of time into making. But whatever. I know where you can go. 
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
Thus the reason I kinda felt the original poster on this thread wasted his time,,
You have to look at everything in order to determine how valid the stats are..
I think this guy is really Navy with a different handle
At least I haven't wasted my time with over 5000 posts on a message board
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1st String
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look at what he has been asked to do? he's been asked to kick 40+ with the game on the line how many times?
I won't throw dawson under the bus. heck Mr. clutch Vinetari (sp?) has missed a few as of recent but i would not cut him either.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
The reason I posted this was because I have heard a bunch of fans (Not on these forums) saying we need to dump the guy, etc etc.
But they do say it in these forums.
All Dawson has to do is miss a kick and there's three threads running about getting rid of him. So yes, the topic of our kicker and whether or not we should keep is old. In fact, I don't think anyone can say anything that hasn't been said before several times over.
That's no dig on you starting your thread.
Your comment about "sports hernia or not", at least I believe, was not a hater comment but merely to make the point that the stats are what they are regardless of the circumstances. It would have served you well to have gone on and finished your thought because that single-line fact made it sound like a hater to some. Even to me at first.
But all I had to do was consider that you came to the conclusion that we should keep Dawson to realize you weren't bashing him.
Phil made a 51 yard kick in a strong wind. Something many have claimed he can't do on a calm day. It didn't look pretty, but had it not bounced back into the field of play and been called no good causing us all to feel the loss first-hand, the kick would never have been an issue of any sort.
The 51 yard kick vs. the Steelers was head-long into a very strong wind and he kept it straight as an arrow but the wind pushed it down.
Dawson has the mentality to make big kicks in big games. Personally I wouldn't trade that for anything. His money kick to win the Rats game was made after all the hullabaloo over his previous kick. It takes a strong constitution to step to the plate and win that game after that.
Eventually we will have to replace Phil. At that point I would bring in a drafted kicker and carry both on the roster and allow the rookie to do the kick-offs and Phil the field goals until the rookie gets acclamated to the game.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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I ran some stats for a post last year about Dawson. In a nutshell his kickoffs are a little below average as well as the extra point average. But the only outdoor kicker that is better for FG avg. was Stover. I was wondering when the rant about 10 post per day board rats was coming Kinda overdue as a matter of fact... The guys that have all the posts take this stuff very seriously, sometimes too seriously. Football is just a game and a message board is not a holy temple. "Loosen up Sandy baby" John Riggins
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Legend
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I don't think we need to worry about kicker. As Shep pointed out, Dawson is signed for another 2 seasons.
Just a note on the stats......when looking at rookie kickers stats....one of the reasons why a young kickers early % may be lower...really two.....early in the career teams don't have a good idea what the guys top range might be, so they want to find out and let them try some 55 yarders...to establish the limit.
And looking at morton Anderson.....his 1st year was way low.....many times when a team brings in a kicker, they keep 2...the new guy and the trusted veteran, with the new guy getting all the long attempts...say over 45 yards.
If you do that, your % will be low.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Sports hernia or not he missed kicks last year.
I try to explain why there is anti-dawson sentiment and then I get branded as a Dawson hater.
Point out where I called you a Dawson hater.... *tapping my foot and waiting*.... ahh never mind, you can look till 2010 and you won't find it because I didn't. You need to thicken up your skin, as it seems to be thinner than a anorexic.
Now I mention last season that Dawson not only had the sports hernia, but that he also had personal problems last year. Some posters around here shrugged it off, and said personal problems shouldn't effect your job. I said at the time any man worth his salt as a husband and father should be putting family ahead of a job. Now that Mary Kay has brought this out into the public light I have no need to keep my mouth shut about details. You see having known about Phils story from the start I have an even bigger heart for not only him, but also his family, but out of respect for them I kept my mouth shut, figuring they would fill in the details on their own time frame.
Friday, November 23, 2007
Story by Mary Kay Cabot
Plain Dealer Reporter
hen Phil Dawson's wife Shannon and 6-year-old son Dru joined him on the field after the Browns' 33-30 overtime victory in Baltimore, the moment became magical, like a scene in a Christmas classic.
In addition to the game-winning kick in overtime, Dawson had made the kick of a lifetime - the wacky, bouncing 51-yarder that sent the game into OT - and now here he was clutching two of the people who mean the world to him.
Frozen in time while they embraced, only the three of them knew all of the pain their family had endured over the past year and a half and how good it felt to be overjoyed.
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"We might've gotten a little more excited about it than we should've, but there was so much more going on there than just the kick," said Shannon.
Just 17 months earlier, in June 2006, Shannon was preparing to deliver the couple's third child back home in Dallas when doctors discovered a cantaloupe-sized mass growing inside her uterus. The diagnosis: low-lying placenta with accreta, a condition whereby the placenta attaches itself abnormally to the uterine wall.
Because the mass had wrapped itself around both of her main arteries, Shannon's condition was life threatening. "It literally brought us to our knees," she said.
What's more, unbeknownst to her, doctors told Dawson he would have to make a choice between his wife and his baby, because only one would emerge from the delivery room alive.
"They told Phil that he had better get his affairs in order," said Shannon. "He had 36 hours to process the whole thing."
Dawson thought about his two young sons, Dru, then 5 and Beau, then 3. He thought about Shannon and what an amazing wife and mother she was, his rock and his inspiration. And then he did what he always does: he prayed. "We relied heavily on our faith," said Shannon.
The Dawsons had one ray of hope before the risky delivery: a specialist would conduct an experimental procedure, which involved the insertion of balloons into the affected area to keep Shannon from bleeding to death during delivery.
CONTINUED 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1195810559231580.xml&coll=2
Like I said last season Phil had good reason to be distracted, both mentally by his personal problems, and physically by his sports hernia. I for one would like to give a shout out to Phil, and thank him once again for not only being a great Browns player, but also for being a great husband and father.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Legend
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You simply cant compare Dawson to say .....Kris Brown who we will see this week.
I hope that crow doesn't taste to bad 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Legend
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Thus the reason I kinda felt the original poster on this thread wasted his time,,
You have to look at everything in order to determine how valid the stats are..
I think this guy is really Navy with a different handle
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At least I haven't wasted my time with over 5000 posts on a message board
WOW,, Snappy come back,, I'ts like I said with my first response to you directly,,,,you may be wasting your time,, but Hey,,its your time..
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.. had you done some research you would have found a thread on the subject,, But no,, you get a bug up your butt about Dawson and virtually everyone that responded told you that your mistaken.,... yet you find the time to come back and try to use your Quick Wit and snappy come backs on me....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I ran some stats for a post last year about Dawson. In a nutshell his kickoffs are a little below average as well as the extra point average. But the only outdoor kicker that is better for FG avg. was Stover.
The numbers have been posted numerous times, to no avail in some cases. People refuse to look at facts lots of times and would rather go with what their gut is telling them......even though that has been proven to be a rather bad idea. 
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Dawson by the numbers
Friday, November 23, 2007
Dawson has 751 career points and needs six to pass Jim Brown (756) for third on the franchise's all-time scoring list behind Lou Groza (1,349) and Don Cockroft (1,080).
His 82.4 percent field-goal accuracy is fourth all-time in NFL history.
Has 10 career game-winners, including two in the past three weeks in overtime.
This season, he's tied for eighth in the NFL (among kickers) with 82 points.
During his nine-year career, he's 7-of-9 in field goal attempts over 50 yards.
Scored the first rushing touchdown in Cleveland Browns Stadium (vs. Cincinnati on Oct. 10, 1999).
Set a club record with 27 straight field goals from 2003-04.
The Browns are 8-1 when his wife, Shannon, sings the national anthem before a game.
- Mary Kay Cabot
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What this blurb doesn't mention is KO......and Dawson is statistically right there with other comparable K. If he played in a dome, or in Arizona, he would have a gazillion TB too. But he doesn't. He plays in Cleveland. He does an outstanding job for us and I'm sure he will continue to do so.
I broke it down one time in depth how though Dawson's KO although shorter than others equaled out to a similar average due to return yards. I haven't looked at it in that much depth this year or last, but I do know he commonly kicks it inside the 10 and that is exactly what you want........just as we saw last week when Cribbs came down and jarred a fumble loose. I don't want to give the opponent the ball on the 20. I want them inside the 20 or a chance at a turnover. 
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Legend
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Legend
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This season, he's tied for eighth in the NFL (among kickers) with 82 points.
LOL,, now you watch,, someone is gonna say that he's tied for 8th,, that means there are 7 kickers better than him...LOL... I have to wonder, are those 7 guys getting more attempts at FG's because thier teams can't score? Hmmm, I wonder if that's true!
Thanks for the voice of reason Shep
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Easy there big fella...I did not say and did not mean to imply that YOU were a Dawson-basher. (I even used the word "people" twice - rather than the word "you" so people could understand who I was talking about.) Maybe YOU should read MY post again. I took from your post that you were a Dawson-supporter. It was a general post about those who tend to bash Dawson. You know you are not one of those people and I do not think you are one of those people. Perhaps I should have started my post with a "j/c".
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I have to wonder, are those 7 guys getting more attempts at FG's because thier teams can't score?
This is the reason I said it is hard to compare kickers. As a Phil Dawson hater 
I must be careful to never criticize him or other average players for that matter. How good is Dawson?? I decided to take a closer look.
Looking at NFL.coms stats page for kicking, field goals and other kicker related duties. this is what we come up with.
Since many think that Dawson has short kick-off it was important to figure out where he stacked up against the rest of the league for kick-offs in regards to average distance and percentage of touch backs. I also inlcuded percentage of field goals made and season long on the offensive side of the coin.
2007 to date
7th in the NFL with 58 kick-off opportunties to date.
24th averaging 62.9 yards per kick-off.
Tied for 28th in touch backs at 3
13th in field goal percentage at 85
Tied for 15th with a long of 51 yards.
In 2006.....
26thin kick off attempts at 61 ( i dont understand this when considering the offensive juggernaut we were fielding )
23rd in yards per kick-off at 63.7
11th in touch backs at 11
31 in field goal percentage at 72
17th in the league with a long of 51.
In 2005
23rd in kick-off attempts at 61
37th in average per kick-off at 59.9 yards (one of only 4 full time kickers to average less than 60 yards per kick-off)
tied for 18th with 3 touchbacks.
6th in field goal percentage at 93
32nd with a long of 44.
2004
18th in kick off attempts at 69
31st in average yards per kick-off at 60.5
15th in touch backs at 5
18th in field goal percentage at 83
32 in the league with along of 44 yards
Of course you can always read more or add other elements into the equation but the point in doing this was to acknowledge that people who have criticisms of Dawson have some tangible, empiracle numbers on their side. Those who act as if Phil is one of the best also have 2005 to point at as the year Phil was in top 5 in field goal percentage.
As this team improves there are other areas that need more dire attention than the kicking game. Phil has been a great brown and has obviously shown tremendous character but IMHO he isnt a "great" kicker, and one can make the argument that he is merely "average" relatively easily, especilly when it comes to the touch back and average kickoff length angle.
I like to root for good guys and Dawson is certainly that but when it comes right down to it I could care less whether or not he is a good guy if he can make them when it counts in december and january. Phil might actually have a chance to solidify his reputation as a kicker this season.
I did have one question but I cant remember who posted that he has only missed one "makeable" field goal this year?? is "makeable" a function of their range and if their range is less than stellar does that change what should be considered "makeable" from the kicker position?? just an honest question
I am trying to get a better read on how to incorporate the average return per kick before anybody starts being a wise guy there is more to the picture but I am not sure how to get a composite for the average kick off length and average return. I always thought that the average kick-off length incoporated the return but there are 2 different stats and I am not sure how they work together.
More to come later
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Legend
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Since many think that Dawson has short kick-off it was important to figure out where he stacked up against the rest of the league for kick-offs in regards to average distance and percentage of touch backs
You left out "Hang Time" Which is as important of kickoffs, as it is in punts.
I would also like to know how people can consider Dawson average when his 82.4 percent field-goal accuracy is fourth all-time in NFL history? What would that make every other NFL kicker below 4th on the ALL TIME history list?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I would also like to know how people can consider Dawson average when his 82.4 percent field-goal accuracy is fourth all-time in NFL history? What would that make every other NFL kicker below 4th on the ALL TIME history list?
Not a Dawson hater here,...but I don't think his avg. is going to continue to climb.
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You left out "Hang Time" Which is as important of kickoffs, as it is in punts.
Actually GM there is no stat kept for hang time so obviously they account for that in a different way....or else they would keep it as a stat. As I stated in my previous post i was trying to figure out how the stats for average return and average kick off length could be a composite. I wanted to edit my previous post to add these numbers but didnt get back to it on time. As far your next statement ....
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I would also like to know how people can consider Dawson average when his 82.4 percent field-goal accuracy is fourth all-time in NFL history? What would that make every other NFL kicker below 4th on the ALL TIME history list?
For somebody who has finished in the top 4 in for field goal percentage from 1999 til present exactly once (in 2002 with 88%) how do they that hold the "4th best all time" distinction? (Are you sure your not talking all time browns?...even if you are that isnt saying much) Please provide the source if you would as that just doesnt seem to add up after viewing what i have today from NFL.com, and would like to become better informed on the topic myself
seriously though GM......where did you see that?
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For somebody who has finished in the top 4 in for field goal percentage from 1999 til present exactly once (in 2002 with 88%) how do they that hold the "4th best all time" distinction?
He's fourth in all-time career FG percentage. Until last season, where we all know he struggled for various reasons, he was second, behind Vanderjagt. Now Matt Stover and Shayne Graham (who are superb kickers, obviously) are ahead of him as well.
Interesting how three of the top four kick in the AFC North...
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Okay.....but where do you get this info?? I did an earnest search for info on Phil today and Saw alot but not that
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Look 9 posts above your last one that Shep made.
#gmstrong
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