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http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/fieldgoalsScroll down...it has the top three through the end of last season, being Vanderjagt, Graham, and Stover, in that order. Stover was 83.78%. Dawson through the end of last season was 82.1% (156/190). Plus the article quoted above. Rob Bironas will likely be on that list following this season.
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If you find the Dawson talk getting old, don't open the topic. In fact, my post supports that we KEEP dawson, not get rid of him! As far as Damanshot with your 5000 posts or whatever on the forum... Get a life. I'm so tired of seeing forum lifers post on what is and what isn't acceptable topics
What a JERKish attitude.. you put up a thread on a subject that has been beaten to death and you knock people who tell you that it's been beaten to death and then you jump in thier face about it,,
What we have here is another in a long line of INTERNET TOUGH GUYS! Guys that say stuff and if it's questioned or if they are told it's been discussed or is BEING discussed in another thread,,, they get crazy on ya..
I won't call you a name,, but I will say what you are NOT.... Brillliant, simply Brilliant! 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Lawrence Tynes is on your list twice
and kris brown
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Not a Dawson hater here,...but I don't think his avg. is going to continue to climb.
He is 4th best in NFL HISTORY how much higher does it need to climb 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Actually GM there is no stat kept for hang time so obviously they account for that in a different way....or else they would keep it as a stat.
No they don't account for it in a different way. They ignore it 100 percent, but I would put money on it that the special teams coaches pay a lot of attention to it. Why do they worry about it on punts??? Because it gives the punting team more time to get down the field and keep the returns short. It is the exact same thing on kickoffs. Now return average does not just reflect on the kicker. If a player does not cover his lane, or blows a tackle then the stats for returns are not effective, and have no reflection on the kicker, yet NFL stats do not take that into account. This is one area where Diam is dead on... stats are for losers on this subject.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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For somebody who has finished in the top 4 in for field goal percentage from 1999 til present exactly once (in 2002 with 88%) how do they that hold the "4th best all time" distinction? (Are you sure your not talking all time browns?...even if you are that isnt saying much) Please provide the source if you would as that just doesnt seem to add up after viewing what i have today from NFL.com, and would like to become better informed on the topic myself
seriously though GM......where did you see that?
I saw it in Shep's post, and I remember it from the last few years. It's easy to have a higher lifetime percentage than other kickers if you are consistant. You may have a guy who made 90 percent of his field goals one year in a row followed up by two years of 80 percent, and a year of 70 percent, and his average is shot. One, two, or three years do not make a good kicker. But I can tell you that good kickers hang around a long time in the NFL and Dawson has been around for a while now, and will be around for a while longer 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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1st String
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but you can't just say, well this guy is better because he has an 83%
That is misleading. It is also why when you see them kick a field goal on sunday that they list the percentages vs. the yardage.
If your asked to kick more 40+ yarders than other kickers of course you should be a little lower than other people.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Whats harder to make? A 45 yard field goal in a dome, or a 35 yard field goal with 15 to 20 MPH winds??? What's harder to make a 45 yard field goal when their is no wind and it's 65 and sunny, or a 35 yard field goal when it's 20 degrees and their is a slight breeze?
Now I agree with you that the stats could be misleading, because stats do not tell the whole story. To know the whole story you need to keep your eyes and your mind open, and watch and learn the game of football. (and no watching the game in a bar, and missing half of the plays peeking down the bartenders top, do not help in the learning experience.)
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Not a Dawson hater here,...but I don't think his avg. is going to continue to climb.
He is 4th best in NFL HISTORY how much higher does it need to climb
GM,..you're missing my point....PD is on the DOWNSIDE of his carreer....I was trying to refrain from using those famous words...DIMINISHING SKILLS.
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In 2005
37th in average per kick-off at 59.9 yards (one of only 4 full time kickers to average less than 60 yards per kick-off)
Let me pick on this "stat" that you posted since you did it in a typical hidden stat kind of way, and because you made the comment about being only one of four, AND the fact that I have played this stat game MANY MANY times I knew it would take me but a few seconds to refute.
Phil kicked for a 59.9 avg in 2005, as you posted. The leader that year in average was Neil Rackers with a 68.8 yd avg. Now, for the important part that you conveniently left out- how about posting what the K Return averages are???
Here, I'll provide Rackers for you, since he was the leader. It was 31.5 yards
Dawson's return avg was 21.1 yards.
Now.......can you do the math there and see why your "stats" are misleading, as well as your comment? Here, let me do it for you:
Dawson's net on KO was 38.8
Rackers net on KO was 37.3
A yard and a half.
4.5 feet.
54 inches
From the league leader down to "only one of 4 guys in the league to avg under 60"
Oh wait....I forgot one thing!!!
Dawson had 3 OSK that year compared to Rackers' 2 OSK. Now go account for that and get back with me. Time for recess now! 
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Shep,,, Did I ever mention how much I respect you? 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He is 4th best in NFL HISTORY how much higher does it need to climb
If this was a horse race, that wouldn't even pay. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I said that there were other things to consider and that the stats were hard to get a read one, the way they rank the average return yards the ranking get confusing and it is hard to get a NET per kick between the two. There is no way in hell I putting a net together for a 4 year comparison to other kickers.
I didnt conveniently leave anything out...I just got sick of typing and looking at very small numbers on my screen. There is only another 16 categories in the kicking stats and another 10-12 in the field goal stats that I conveniently decide that i wasnt going to extract either. (lazy me) It is good when people actually contribute real information to threads instead of just laying out opinions. I still dont think Phil is a great kicker and nothing is going to change that. UNLESS he gets a chance to make some kicks in December and January that are not only "makeable", but "important".
If there was ever a city that a kicker could go from fan favorite to Scott Norwoods bastardson, it is cleveland.
My favorite Phil play of all time is still his fake kick against the riaders in 03 where he said he was afraid that his belly was going to take him out of bounds when he turned the corner.
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I still dont think Phil is a great kicker and nothing is going to change that.
How 'bout if he kicked in Arizona? Or Atlanta? West Coast? Indy?
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How about if he kicked a big field goal in playoff game. I guess you would rather have Phil than Vinateri right?? I mean his all time percentage is higher.
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How about if he kicked a big field goal in playoff game. I guess you would rather have Phil than Vinateri right?? I mean his all time percentage is higher.
I definitely would rather have Phil....he is one of the best in the game. This has been proven statistically and visually.
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I'm not the biggest Dawson supporter (on the field anyway, love the guy off the field...a real class act)...I also don't bash the guy.
But here's the thing. At this point in time...right now...Dawson is the LEAST of our worries.
I can't believe that with all that is still wrong with this team that we have people starting 'replace Dawson' threads.
Doesn't make sense to me.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm not the biggest Dawson supporter (on the field anyway, love the guy off the field...a real class act)...I also don't bash the guy.
But here's the thing. At this point in time...right now...Dawson is the LEAST of our worries.
I can't believe that with all that is still wrong with this team that we have people starting 'replace Dawson' threads.
Doesn't make sense to me.
It's gone the typical dawson thread route.
Thread starts out with a title asking if we need to draft a new K. Inside the thread, there are some partial stats, and buried within is the comment by the original poster that he wants to keep Dawson. People reply with posts asking why another Dawson bashing thread.
Someone else posts some more misleading stats, and then when called on it states he is not going to waste his time acquiring all the stats to be looked at in all of the possible categories. Comparisons are made as they always are, and the usual culprits discount the fact that Dawson kicks in Cleveland.
All on the heels of his winning the game for us last week.
Never ceases to amaze me.
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All on the heels of his winning the game for us last week.
Yeah, I couldn't believe I saw this thread at all after Dawson won the game for us.
If anything, I expected to see the 'maybe Dawson is the guy' thread.
Just goes to show that some people will not allow their minds to change once they've made a decision on how they view somebody.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Thread starts out with a title asking if we need to draft a new K. Inside the thread, there are some partial stats, and buried within is the comment by the original poster that he wants to keep Dawson.
We can't forget the guy who started the thread getting all upset about people telling him that it's being and has been beaten to death... that's another funny thing!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah....one of my favorites over the years is where someone writes that they are "sick" of something being talked about. So they start a thread on it.
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Now.......can you do the math there and see why your "stats" are misleading, as well as your comment? Here, let me do it for you:
Dawson's net on KO was 38.8
Rackers net on KO was 37.3
A yard and a half.
4.5 feet.
54 inches
From the league leader down to "only one of 4 guys in the league to avg under 60"
Oh wait....I forgot one thing!!!
Dawson had 3 OSK that year compared to Rackers' 2 OSK. Now go account for that and get back with me. Time for recess now!
Wow! You assassinated the assassin.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Yeah....one of my favorites over the years is where someone writes that they are "sick" of something being talked about.
So they start a thread on it
Hey Hey now,,, I resemble that remark!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Linkage Dawson welcomes wins after dark years Sunday, November 25, 2007 3:29 AM By James Walker THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH BEREA, Ohio -- Kicker Phil Dawson was shocked by what he saw in the Cleveland Browns' locker room after a win last Sunday over the Baltimore Ravens. Dawson was delayed by on-field interviews after he made a field goal that bounced off an upright and the support bar to tie the score, and then made another field goal in overtime to win the game. When Dawson finally entered the locker room, every player, coach and staff member was waiting for him. Their hero had arrived. "Next to having my son there, it was the highlight of my career," Dawson said. "We usually have a pretty strict routine when games are over. … I anticipated walking in with my son in (my) arms and half the guys already being gone and showered up. "But everybody was standing there, waiting." If anyone deserved the moment, it was Dawson. He is the only player remaining from Cleveland's return to the NFL in 1999. The Browns are 46-92 since then, with Dawson playing under three coaches and two general managers and with about100 teammates. Dawson has seen his share of low points. Cleveland's five-win season in 2003 was one of the toughest, coming after a playoff appearance in 2002, and he said he had doubts the Browns would ever turn things around again. They won just 10 games in their first two seasons under coach Romeo Crennel. But a 6-4 record this season has the Browns in the playoff picture entering a home game today against the Houston Texans (5-5). "The main difference I see in this team is a lot of things we're doing around here. Players are taking it upon ourselves; there's a sense of ownership," Dawson said. "Obviously, the coaches are doing a great job, but I think … the players are holding each other accountable." Dawson stuck around because he always did his job. He is fourth on Cleveland's career scoring list and fourth in the NFL with a .824 career field-goal percentage, better than former Pro Bowl kickers Adam Vinatieri (82.0 percent), David Akers (81.3) and Jason Elam (80.2). "He's been underrated since he's been here by a lot of people, so it's a really good feeling for him," punter and holder Dave Zastudil said. "Sometimes when you lose, everything gets magnified. If he misses a field goal, that field goal is that much more important." Dawson's kick to tie the score as time expired made him a celebrity. Officials first ruled that the kick was no good, and the Ravens celebrated and began leaving the field. Then after a discussion, the officials changed their minds. The Ravens lost the coin flip to start overtime, then lost the game on another Dawson kick. "It's been a whirlwind," Dawson said. "I'm happy for the guys on the team. Any exposure is good exposure. It takes a crazy kick to create some attention for this team and what we're doing together. It feels good." Dawson hopes to return to his normal life as a kicker as soon as possible. "I've got a job to do and the job doesn't change," Dawson said. "It's been a little more hectic, obviously, but this will all die down too. I can go out there and spray them all over the park (today), and then you all won't want to talk to me then. "It was fun while it lasted. But it's a team game, we're winning as a team and it was my turn to do something last week." jwalker@dispatch.com
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Thanks Saint.
Dunno why, because it's not a fantastic article, but it kinda punctuates everything we've been saying about Dawson.
If there's one kicker in the entire league that flies under everyones radar, it's Dawson. He just hasn't had the opportunity to make big-game kicks like the rest have.
I'm not one to look the gifthorse in the mouth. We have an excellent kicker and I'm grateful.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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While I agree that the kicker is probably our last area of need if you're not the least bit nervous when Phil lines up for any FG over about 35 yards you haven't been paying attention.
I also love how most of you that are the first to say stats are for losers are also the very first that pull them out as soon as someone questions Phil.
As I said, Kicking is our last worry as of now. Doesn't mean I wouldn't invite some kids into camp next year to see what else is out there. But that's just me.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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GM,..you're missing my point....PD is on the DOWNSIDE of his carreer....I was trying to refrain from using those famous words...DIMINISHING SKILLS.
Well you should refrain from using them, as you would be wrong about that as well. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If this was a horse race, that wouldn't even pay.
and if it were MLB he would be getting 15 million a year with those stats
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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How about if he kicked a big field goal in playoff game. I guess you would rather have Phil than Vinateri right?? I mean his all time percentage is higher.
Maybe you should ask somebody else in this thread that question since AV is 25 months older than PD, then his skills must be a lot more DIMINISHING 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Doesn't mean I wouldn't invite some kids into camp next year to see what else is out there. But that's just me.
It cracks me up when people say this.. Because I can't remember a time when there wasn't an extra kicker or two in camp.. Dawson keeps beating them out...
I suppose that if you got the next Adam Vinitari to come to camp,, he might have a chance to beat dawson,,, and if he does,, Cool.., Better players means a better chance of winning..
But until someone beats him out,, Dawson is our guy.. We could do a hell of a lot worse!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Some posters around here give Rodney Dangerfield more respect than Phil Dawson
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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"While I agree that the kicker is probably our last area of need if you're not the least bit nervous when Phil lines up for any FG over about 35 yards you haven't been paying attention."
I'm sorry but there probably isn't a good honest fan in the entire NFL that doesn't get at least a bit nervous when their FG kicker line up for a FG over 35 yards. This is the 4th best pct career wise in kicking FGs and thats the NFL - and he kicks in one of the most unforgiving stadiums for 8 games a year. He's not in mile high stadium, He's not indoors as Vinetari is as a Colt (who btw if he was our kicker he'd be castrated by some of you already).
Was there a bigger kick than his OT game winner (they are all big game winners) and yet it was solid smack in the middle of the uprights. Thats 2 for two this season. Sure if you aren't nervous when we kick to win the game then quite frankly you're not much of a fan.
Getting a kicker is like searching for the holy grail - I've seen pretty good teams that lost in the playoffs due to the lack of kicking. I guarantee you everyone of them to a team would have loved to have had Dawson on their team. So as we approach our Playoff years - I can't believe fans are talking about seeking another.
This is a sad statement for the fickleness of some fans. My gosh...4th in the NFL for career pct. and he's in his prime. Get rid of him...lol 
I'm all for upgrades - 6th 7th round pick or a UDFA and stick them on the practice squad for a year or two...if they turn out to be a young stud. Hey, that's not fickleness thats just being efficient in the personnel business. But to get rid of Dawson outright...lol why so we can pick up one dead weight kicker after another in hope to come close to what we got now  totally rediculous.
Paying attention...well I use to pay attention to my Grandma but that doesn't mean I shaved my beard off for her.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm sorry but there probably isn't a good honest fan in the entire NFL that doesn't get at least a bit nervous when their FG kicker line up for a FG over 35 yards.
Thank you for saying that Eo,,, I wanted to, but I'm afraid I don't have the Cred on this board to say it and have it considered close to accurate... Thanks
And GM,, I know what your saying and I agree..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sure if you aren't nervous when we kick to win the game then quite frankly you're not much of a fan.
Exactly.
The game is already in "nail-biting mode" by the time the kicker takes the field. Usually that has little to do with the kicker. No one is so automatic that we don't get nervous for that play.
#gmstrong
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I also love how most of you that are the first to say stats are for losers are also the very first that pull them out as soon as someone questions Phil.
Ummm.... it's not like there is any other way at all to evaluate a kicker.
He doesn't block guys, he doesn't run routes, he doesn't throw or catch passes. He kicks, that is it. There is no technique to evaluate or anything, only results....that is it, nothing else, stats are all there are and they DO tell the complete story.
Kicking is completely binary... either it is a good kick or it isn't .... the singular result is everything..... and his results are pretty damn good.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Sorry boys, we'll just have to disagree on this one. I've been here long enough to know I will never win an argument with Daman, Eo, GM or PPE (or many others). It's just not gonna happen.
You guys win. He's the greatest. No need for competition. No need for discussion. What was I thinking?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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While I agree that the kicker is probably our last area of need if you're not the least bit nervous when Phil lines up for any FG over about 35 yards you haven't been paying attention.
I think every person in every state gets nervous when their kicker lines up for anything outside of 35
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I also love how most of you that are the first to say stats are for losers are also the very first that pull them out as soon as someone questions Phil.
Considering I carry the banner that reads:
"Stats aren't for losers.....most losers just can't properly read stats"
I fall into that part of your sentence that reads "most of you"
In truth, if there's one player on the entire field that can most accurately be judged based purely on stats and with the fewest variables, it's the field goal kicker. I think the stats show that Dawson's one short-coming (such as it is) comes outside the 40-yard range. having said that, I don't believe anyone is saying that he's a pro-bowl kicker, just that he's reliable and good.
Now here in a couple of seasons his leg will start to go. I personally think he's allready lost a couple of yards off of it, as a couple of years ago he was hitting kicks that would be good from 55 or 56. I don't think he can regularly do that now. At that point, it'll be time, but when you have a sound kicker, you shouldn't screw around with a known quantity.
But that my good man is just me
On a different note, did anyone see Shayne Graham miss that chip-shot field goal today?
He sucks!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Neil Rackers missed one for a win in over-time. He sucks too!
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bring in a New Kicker? Stats! Do
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