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I've been here long enough to know I will never win an argument with Daman, Eo, GM or PPE (or many others). It's just not gonna happen.
Don't sell yourself short. If you present a sound theory with facts to back it up, AND acknowledge what the others are saying, you'll have no problem holding your own in a debate here.
If you're expecting total conciliation, it's just not gonna happen with these characters. 
Some of these posters are quite knowledgeable about the Browns and football in general, and you better do your homework if you want to argue with them. In this particular case, I don't think you have.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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And just how have I not "done my homework"? Go back and read what I wrote. Then criticize.
I stand by my statements. In fact most of these guys agreed with what I wrote then proceeded to take me to task for saying Phil sucked. Or some variation of that statement. Which I don't think and have never said.
However, having been on here and the old board, I know when it's useless to argue. And who it's useless to argue with. Homework or no homework.
Have a nice day.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Geeze, GM ur wrecking everyones posts. ALso shep good stats. It does prove that kickoff yardage is misleading if ur numbers are all right. In my mind kicker is one of the least of our problems. we need d line, secondary, a punter more than a kicker, a slot receiver, i could go on and on before a kicker.
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Legend
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Phil Dawson sucks.
Seriously, he is a very accurate kicker for most of his years but he does lack leg strength. That is just a fact. I am more willing to keep a kicker who makes most of his field goals from inside 50 yards then have a kicker who can make 50 yard plus kicks when conditions are not ideal. He is accurate by the stats from over 50, but how many times have we elected not to kick a field goal from that distance? He doesn't kick the ball nearly as far on kickoffs then many IMO when watching him against other teams kickers. I am more than happy with shorter kicks if we are able to cover them and stop teams for shorter returns. A high kick to the 5 or 10 with very good hangtime is much more to my licking than a kick a yard deep in the endzone which has a lot less hangtime. I remember when we were good in the 80's and we had two kickers. One for kickoffs and long field goals (Cox) and one for all other field goals (Bahr). Maybe if we get good enough again we can do something like that if need be. I do believe we should always look to improve every position. We should never be rash in doing so however.
#gmstrong
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However, having been on here and the old board, I know when it's useless to argue. And who it's useless to argue with. Homework or no homework.
Now Otto, you should know I fess up when I'm wrong, but I stick to my guns and dig my heels in when I'm right 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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And just how have I not "done my homework"? Go back and read what I wrote. Then criticize.
I stand by my statements. In fact most of these guys agreed with what I wrote then proceeded to take me to task for saying Phil sucked. Or some variation of that statement. Which I don't think and have never said.
However, having been on here and the old board, I know when it's useless to argue. And who it's useless to argue with. Homework or no homework.
Have a nice day.
Hey, I meant to be supportive of you. Sorry about the homework comment, I got you mixed up with somebody else.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Well at least you know your place 
Come on Otto, you're losing your butt in argument here and your closure is to claim you are being Bullied...  If you feel your opinion is correct...its simple, prove it. But when you cannot don't play the Gee I'm not allowed to have an opinion from these guys card.
You're just wrong 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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And just how have I not "done my homework"? Go back and read what I wrote. Then criticize.
I stand by my statements. In fact most of these guys agreed with what I wrote then proceeded to take me to task for saying Phil sucked. Or some variation of that statement. Which I don't think and have never said.
However, having been on here and the old board, I know when it's useless to argue. And who it's useless to argue with. Homework or no homework.
Have a nice day.
Now just wait one damned minute.
Hold the phone, hold the presses.
This right here is one thing that is wrong with message boards. You can rattle off this inane horse crap and some people will notice and some won't, but I'm calling you on this right here. A lot of people give me a lot of hell for my posting style, but there's one damned thing you can guarantee and that is if I say something it is related to facts then I can back it up, and if it's related to sole opinion then I will say so. (I'm not the only one that does this by a long stretch but by God I catch a lot of crap for my style and sometimes (such as now) it gets downright irritating.)
You have not done your "homework." If you have, then please post it within this thread. This goes for you and Navy and the rest of the nervous nellies that refuse to look at COLD HARD FACTS and not personal opinion.
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While I agree that the kicker is probably our last area of need if you're not the least bit nervous when Phil lines up for any FG over about 35 yards you haven't been paying attention.
I also love how most of you that are the first to say stats are for losers are also the very first that pull them out as soon as someone questions Phil.
As I said, Kicking is our last worry as of now. Doesn't mean I wouldn't invite some kids into camp next year to see what else is out there. But that's just me.
STATS ARE FOR LOSERS IS an accurate description in many areas, dependent on the way they are used and manipulated. In the case of a K, this is generally not the case. Dawson's stats have been posted and reposted on numerous occasions much to your chagrin as well as others, for the simple fact that you can't refute them other then saying that he makes you nervous.
You say that Phil makes you nervous......how exactly does he do this? (other than what has already been described within this thread whereas any fan gets nervous when his/her K comes on the field.)
Why bring someone into camp to challenge for the job when he is already signed for two more years and we have many glaring needs? Why discuss bringing someone into camp when he is hitting 50 yard game winners for us? (or tiers (get it, tie-ers) as the case may be?)
Why when he is proven to be one of the BEST K IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL???
Why oh why do we continue to broach this subject and why do people insist on arguing over it??
Why why why why why why why?????????????
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Dang it all Shep,, I really hate it when you hold back like that... it's about time you let it all out bud This thing about bringing in another kicker to challenge Dawson keeps cropping up and it seems as if nobody gets it.. Each year for as far back as I can remember,, The Browns, like so many other teams, always seem to bring in extra kickers.. Granted, they aren't always for the express purpose of challenging the incumbent, but in effect, that's what they do. You'll never convince me that if a young kicker came to camp as nothing more than an extra leg and to be camp fodder, but suddenly started booming kickoffs and booming FG's from 50 + yards, that the teams wouldn't sit up and take notice.., I sure as hell would. I guarantee you that the contract that Phil has for the next number of years isn't worth the paper it's typed on if by some stretch of the imagination the Browns find some young kid with that big a leg... Having said that,, Phil has been here since 1999,, in that time, there have been any number of youngsters come through camp competing for a job and not one of them has been able to unseat Dawson.., For those doubters, I ask you this,, why do you suppose that is? Nobody has been able to beat Phil out of the job.. NOBODY! You all can do what you want in terms of wrestling with Maalox when he kicks, but like I said earlier in this very thread, I'm convinced it's a personal problem....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This goes for you and Navy and the rest of the nervous nellies
Shep, I have stayed out of this thread, so please keep me out of this thread.
Sure I have commented on this in OTHER threads, so your drivel about my opinions could have and should have been stated there. You don't see me throwing your name out every time someone makes a stupid thread similar to some of the ones you make, I'd appreciate the same.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Simply put (as I have stated so many times before, for guys like you) I am not enamored of Phil Dawson. I do not think he sucks. I do not think he is great. I think he is, at this point in his career, average. This is my opinion. I have never stated this as fact.
A kicker like Phil is good enough for the Browns at this point in the team's maturation. I understand this. Apparently, folks such as yourself, do not. And as I stated before I see nothing wrong with seeing what younger kicking talent there is out there that can be invited to camp next summer. Competition...it's a beautiful thing.
But let's not kid each other, here. You didn't really post this reply to me in defense of Phil. Because I didn't attack Phil. You posted this because you thought I'd go off on you and you'd have a chance to ban me again. Sorry. I can be a hothead and a smartass on plenty of occasions. This will not be one of them.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I can be a hothead and a smartass on plenty of occasions. This will not be one of them.
Ahh, dang, and I was SOOOO looking forward to see some steam rising
Otto, if I don't pick on you once a week, I don't feel like I've done my duty..... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Shep, I have stayed out of this thread, so please keep me out of this thread.
My apologies. Didn't mean to cause your undies to go up the nether regions of your buttocks.
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Sure I have commented on this in OTHER threads, so your drivel about my opinions could have and should have been stated there.
Um, it has? I have responded to your drivel with my drivel in the past on this topic. As you have been one of the more vocal ones, I included you here in advance. My bad.
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You don't see me throwing your name out every time someone makes a stupid thread similar to some of the ones you make, I'd appreciate the same.
Feel quite free to enlighten me anytime on one of these stupid threads that you speak of, because I am quite ignorant as to what you speak of.
Thanks much!
Love,
Shep
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Simply put (as I have stated so many times before, for guys like you)
What is a guy like me? Someone who looks at things realistically? Thanks!
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But let's not kid each other, here.
I wasn't jesting in anything I said. It's a football discussion, nothing more and nothing less. *shrug*
Sorry that you see it as something that it is not.
Have a great day.
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For those doubters, I ask you this,, why do you suppose that is? Nobody has been able to beat Phil out of the job.. NOBODY!
You all can do what you want in terms of wrestling with Maalox when he kicks, but like I said earlier in this very thread, I'm convinced it's a personal problem....
You really don't expect an intelligent answer from this small group of doubters, do you? They'd rather argue over things that have no bearing whatsoever and ignore the facts that have been presented in front of them time and time again, apparently just for the sake of arguing. There really is nothing to argue over.
Nothing.
Yet they can't fathom that. 
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You really don't expect an intelligent answer from this small group of doubters, do you?
I keep hoping and hoping that someday,, someone will tell me how, that over the last 8 years and with all the bodies that have been brought in either as kicking fodder or as legit competion, that nobody has beaten Phil if he's as bad as some say? To hear some people talk, Phil is over the hill and totally worthless. (not everyone goes that far, just some)
I mean come on,, if those folks that are really "IN THE KNOW" thought anyone was better, wouldn't they find a way to keep them on the team,,, PS,, PUP,, starter... something? If for no other reason than insurance against Phil finally falling into the abyss as a kicker?
I mean, they couldn't all have been scrubbs right?
Phil isn't getting any younger,,, (neither am I for that matter) and there will undoubtedly come a day when he can no longer be the kicker he's been.. Kinda one of those things where the Mind is willing but the body says NO WAY.
That time may not be far off in all honesty.. and yeah, we should continue to look at guys in Camp.. we may find the next Adam Vinetari or Matt Bahr or even the next Phil Dawson.
I'm all for keeping an eye out for the next guy....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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