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Originally Posted by Swish
so what do you think? is this one of those situations where they got the vague accusations out the way, and are focused on maybe fighting the more serious allegations?

again, settling always seemed weird to me, in any situation.

There are battles you can’t win, this was one of them.

By reducing the numbers of civil law suits Team Watson can argue that they at least acknowledges that something must be done to move forward. I still think a initial one year suspension is on the table but with 20 women willing to settle it’s more maneuver room for the NFL to maybe reduce the punishment and with that avoid a legal battle with the NFLPA.

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Originally Posted by Swish
jc

i dunno how i feel about this. i understand that in cases like this, you gotta do what the lawyers say for the best outcome, but damn. morally, settling always seems like an admission of guilt. i get that some people do settle for the simple reason of not wasting time in court, but when it comes to sexual misconduct cases, it feels dirty.

I agree w/you on that. On the other hand, I feel that folks who start off by filing Civil court cases rather than criminal court cases is equally, if not more, dirty. I have felt that way for decades. Not saying I am right, but I don't think I'm alone on that one. Maybe on here....LOL.......but not in the real world.

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Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by FATE
Didn't realize these ladies were suing him for "receiving massages"? I'll have to read the story again.

If the NFL is not the legal system, why are some posters advocating for no suspension because the GJ didn't indict?

Seems like trying to play both sides against the middle.


What do you think Kraft's punishment should have been?

Don't like Kraft at all. His charges were dropped, he had no pending lawsuits. His charges were solicitation. He is an apple.

Watson did not get any charges either. He has 26 pending lawsuits for Sexual Assault? He is an orange.

The link between Kraft and Watson? Whataboutism. Paying for sex and sexual assault...not the same thing, not the same ballpark.

I did not think that the Personal Conduct Policy was all that hard to read? Maybe it is for some of you? Also, the attorneys for the NFLPA and Watson's defense team see it far differently from you. Speaking of ballparks, someone is out in left field and it isn't me.

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j/c:



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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Who am I trying to bully. I don't even speak to 888 and Pit.

Yet you can't keep our names out of your mouth. You refuse to address us as men directly while saying things about us in general to everyone else. There's a name for that. Try to man up for as change.

God's honest truth right there.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
I think it had far more to do with Watson and his lawyers getting absolutely destroyed in the court of public opinion. I don't think Watson or maybe his career could take another year+ of this limbo status.

There are certainly many factors to consider in terms of settling such lawsuits. One of which I would agree is the court of public opinion. I also think that what was uncovered concerning the Texans providing watson NDA's for massage therapists to sign was quite damning. So I would have to say that it was a combination of many factors. Including but not restricted to what it would actually cost to fight 24 civil cases, how long this would have dragged out, the possible increased punishment from the NFL and as things unfolded from a factual standpoint it was continually getting uglier.

I can't say I blame him for settling all of the lawsuits he could. I can't say I blame him for insisting his innocence throughout the entire process. I mean if you're fighting these lawsuits what else can you say? I do however think it leaves far more questions than answers.


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So much for proving his innocence and saying he wanted a trial.

So much for the defense keeping their 'get out of free' evidence / defense case under wraps for the trial.

It's the smart thing to do for Watson.... But it flies in the face of everything he said publicly. Gosh I can't wait for his next presser when he talks about and mentions "Community" multiple times.

And for the many Watson defenders that said numbers do not matter. . . . all this means is that there are still sex assault allegations and he's being pursued in the civil courts. Remember that - it didn't matter if there was 1 or 26 allegations against him. Well - there is/are still allegations against him.

Lets see what the NFL does with this.


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And about mental health jokes again.

We have a board member who has courageously and honestly addressed his PTSD issues. Yet, not one of his so-called friends have had the decency to say to Lex that mental health attacks are improper. After all, Lex is on your "side" in this particular argument, so it's okay to use mental health issues as a weapon, right?

We also have several members who have openly admitted to battling depression. Lord only knows how many more silent victims there are on this board and how many of us who may have a loved one dealing w/mental health issues. Who cares if it helps win an argument on a football message board? Pathetic!!!

It's no freaking wonder so many people try and hide their mental health issues from others. To admit to it is to get laughed at and ridiculed.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
And about mental health jokes again.

We have a board member who has courageously and honestly addressed his PTSD issues. Yet, not one of his so-called friends have had the decency to say to Lex that mental health attacks are improper. After all, Lex is on your "side" in this particular argument, so it's okay to use mental health issues as a weapon, right?

We also have several members who have openly admitted to battling depression. Lord only knows how many more silent victims there are on this board and how many of us who may have a loved one dealing w/mental health issues. Who cares if it helps win an argument on a football message board? Pathetic!!!

It's no freaking wonder so many people try and hide their mental health issues from others. To admit to it is to get laughed at and ridiculed.

Vers, why do you not think about how you can be impacting the people that you harass and lie about on the boards? You act like an aggressor and then play the victim. Maybe try and apologizing to the posters you have lied about and see where that gets you?

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Nobody comes out squeaky clean, for sure.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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There you go talking to yourself again because you refuse to man up and address the person you're talking about.


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Your reply has nothing at all to do w/my post. I'll be blunt. I don't like you. I want nothing to do w/you moving forward. Your mental health jokes are disgusting on many different levels.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Your reply has nothing at all to do w/my post. I'll be blunt. I don't like you. I want nothing to do w/you moving forward. Your mental health jokes are disgusting on many different levels.

Good then maybe stop lying and using my name and responding? You control your own destiny there.

And since we are sharing opinion so nicely, I find people that act like an asshat and then hide behind mental illness truly disgusting. You do not know what anyone else is dealing with, do not care how you treat them and then expect them to treat you with kid gloves like you are special.

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Using your name? You are the one who resorted to mental health "jokes."

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Originally Posted by mgh888
So much for proving his innocence and saying he wanted a trial.

So much for the defense keeping their 'get out of free' evidence / defense case under wraps for the trial.

It's the smart thing to do for Watson.... But it flies in the face of everything he said publicly. Gosh I can't wait for his next presser when he talks about and mentions "Community" multiple times.

Perhaps. Or perhaps the full-court press Buzbee was doing out of court and how it was having a domino effect on his upcoming NFL season, the contract that may or may not have been structured to handle this forced Watson to just "take his medicine" so to speak. We may not know for sure, which I'm bummed about. For me, the worst thing would be to have that cloud hanging over my head (however it may shrink over time) of whether or not all this stuff was true. IMO, this decision came down to Watson making a business decision regarding re-starting his career where there were also short term ramifications (and I'm assuming massive amounts of pressure) to the Browns and the NFL.

And BTW, you could also say the same thing about the accusers taking the money. The argument cuts both ways when the one side has been beating the drum of respecting women and railing on the trauma they had to endure. Just as much as settling civil cases brought against you suggests guilt, so does putting a (confidential) price on the trauma you endured suggest you were in it for the money.

Originally Posted by mgh888
And for the many Watson defenders that said numbers do not matter. . . . all this means is that there are still sex assault allegations and he's being pursued in the civil courts. Remember that - it didn't matter if there was 1 or 26 allegations against him. Well - there is/are still allegations against him.

Lets see what the NFL does with this.

IMO, the NFL's punishment is going to make just as much sense as it would've before these cases were settled (not a whole lot), because at the end of the day we're still only talking about allegations. If the NFL is convinced he did everything he's being accused of, then they're punishment should remain the same regardless of whether he paid a bunch off. IMO, by rushing to judgement the NFL is showing that the only thing it cares about is CYA and checking a box. By comparison, people who keep referring to baseball's punishment vs Bauer seem to ignore the fact that they waited until his civil cases were concluded.

Regarding the still-pending civil cases against Watson... what then happens if these cases go nowhere? It's a hypothetical, so isn't worth the paper it's printed on... but people were also saying early on how difficult it is to prove guilt (even with the lower bar for civil cases).


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So - just my personal opinion - there is a reasonable expectation that some of the 26 either entered into the situation with Watson "eyes open". They may have chose not to - or chose to perform what DW wanted. They may have then jumped on the band wagon. I expect some of the 26 were shocked / non consensual - and they were part of the group doing the allegations with grounds to complain ... but for whatever reasons - maybe there is no text messages or corroborating evidence to support them. Maybe they only talked to family or friends about what happened. . . . I think those 2 groups settled. I think there is probably a group of 4 individuals who have enough to substantiate their claims that a civil trial and bringing DW to "justice" and expose him for the predator they feel he is - I think that's the remaining individuals who are left.

100% speculation. But formed using what I would consider logic and plausibility.


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Nice post. I will say that having the 4 unresolved cases is troubling and I am saying that as someone who wants Watson to play this season. I need time to think about the ones that were settled and those that were not and how that might influence things. I have had some thoughts, but I haven't even come close to drawing any conclusions.

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Originally Posted by LexDawg
Good then maybe stop lying and using my name and responding? You control your own destiny there.


That's not how any of this works. Now he will probably do what he does to everyone else " he doesn't like". He will throw your name around while refusing to address you directly. He claims he would stand up the the NFL directly if he were in watson's shoes. Yet what we see is that he will not even directly engage people he disagrees with on a message board. He instead takes cheap shots at them when addressing other posters. It's an all too familiar pattern.


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This is from a post addressed to Lex and the "he" is actually me.


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He instead takes cheap shots at them when addressing other posters. It's an all too familiar pattern.


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Yes hmmmm. I address you on the regular. Daily. You on the other hand.....


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
This is from a post addressed to Lex and the "he" is actually me.


Quote
He instead takes cheap shots at them when addressing other posters. It's an all too familiar pattern.


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You are correct I think, the oddly named Versatile Dog...who is neither Versatile or a Dog. It didn't seem to be confusing.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Using your name? You are the one who resorted to mental health "jokes."

.

Speaking of mental health, people have suggested that due to the #s of women involved, it is implied DW is experiencing or has some sort of "addiction". If that is the case, doesn't the ADA come into play regarding punishment from the league. I know Josh was suspended multiple times, but it makes me wonder how much protection the ADA provides since I am constantly hearing PSAs on the radio that
significant portion addictive behavior is hereditary.

I am not advocating this as an excuse for his behavior if guilty, but if addiction truly is a disability, how can you fire or suspend an employee, assuming they accept mental help.

Yes, this is a legitimate question and I realize that is not what Vers meant when he used the term.

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I think for that to be a defense or an excuse or a factor to consider when deciding a punishment - Deshaun would have to raise his hand, say he has a problem. You can't claim a defense while all the time denying everything/anything.


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Originally Posted by mgh888
I think for that to be a defense or an excuse or a factor to consider when deciding a punishment - Deshaun would have to raise his hand, say he has a problem. You can't claim a defense while all the time denying everything/anything.

I completely agree. I was just throwing it out there. If he were to say, "I am an addict & need professional help", would that mean he is entitled to help and not punishment. I ask this not just for DW, but many types of addictions in a wide variety of jobs. Or would the result be he would need to go on some sort of official disability such as a SS type, recover with treatment , then return to work.

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So if Watson used power and influence to coerce any of these women into sexual activity ... or even if he tried to and failed ... I don't believe that would be a consideration. As it stands this is what the allegations are.

If Watson was found to have simply been looking for consensual activity - but the NFL was thinking of punishing him because of bad media attention and PR based on 66 therapists and paid for happy endings, then I believe it would be something to consider. And like alcohol or drug addiction / charges - the leniency of the punishment would require agreed to treatment. imo

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Good question. I don't know the answer. I kinda doubt that they will go that route. But, it was still a good question.

I remember the Josh Gordon thing. Some folks used it as a defense.

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Originally Posted by Swish
jc

i dunno how i feel about this. i understand that in cases like this, you gotta do what the lawyers say for the best outcome, but damn. morally, settling always seems like an admission of guilt. i get that some people do settle for the simple reason of not wasting time in court, but when it comes to sexual misconduct cases, it feels dirty.

Exactly how I feel about this. I understand the argument for settling, but CW himself and unprompted just a week ago said he wanted to CLEAR his name. I don't see for a second how settling now even comes close to clering his name. Just makes him look slimy at least or like a preditor at worst. But now I'm supposed to be giddy and run out to buy his merch. NOPE.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by oobernoober
I think it had far more to do with Watson and his lawyers getting absolutely destroyed in the court of public opinion. I don't think Watson or maybe his career could take another year+ of this limbo status.

There are certainly many factors to consider in terms of settling such lawsuits. One of which I would agree is the court of public opinion. I also think that what was uncovered concerning the Texans providing watson NDA's for massage therapists to sign was quite damning. So I would have to say that it was a combination of many factors. Including but not restricted to what it would actually cost to fight 24 civil cases, how long this would have dragged out, the possible increased punishment from the NFL and as things unfolded from a factual standpoint it was continually getting uglier.

I can't say I blame him for settling all of the lawsuits he could. I can't say I blame him for insisting his innocence throughout the entire process. I mean if you're fighting these lawsuits what else can you say? I do however think it leaves far more questions than answers.

That revelation made me turn from open to him proving his innocence to doubting everything he says. Then he said a week ago clearing his name was all he wanted. Today he settles... So much for clearing his name IMHO.


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If he didnt settle then this would drag on for YEARS. He probably just wanted start putting this behind him.


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
If he didnt settle then this would drag on for YEARS. He probably just wanted start putting this behind him.

I'm betting he was told to make this all go away as much as possible before training camp.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by EveDawg
If he didnt settle then this would drag on for YEARS. He probably just wanted start putting this behind him.

I'm betting he was told to make this all go away as much as possible before training camp.

Probably so.


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Just curious about how you feel about him, Eve? Since this did nothing to prove that he was guilty or not. At this point, I'll root for the team, but I can't support him.


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I extremely dislike him and wish we stuck with Baker. But we didnt. I'm like you. I support the team but not him. And at the end of the day I would just rather the drama be over with and move on. So I am glad he settled. I'm glad those women got retribution instead of going through trial and getting nothing.


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Well said. You have a good head on your shoulders and are more grounded than most.

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https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/22/dan-snyder-2009-sexual-assault-allegation-details

Sounds like this was it in the NFLs line of site. But it's serious and might be relevant to Watson.

Personally I dont think Synder should be allowed to continue to own the team. We'll see if the other owners can eventually force him out.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Originally Posted by Swish
jc

i dunno how i feel about this. i understand that in cases like this, you gotta do what the lawyers say for the best outcome, but damn. morally, settling always seems like an admission of guilt. i get that some people do settle for the simple reason of not wasting time in court, but when it comes to sexual misconduct cases, it feels dirty.

Exactly how I feel about this. I understand the argument for settling, but CW himself and unprompted just a week ago said he wanted to CLEAR his name. I don't see for a second how settling now even comes close to clering his name. Just makes him look slimy at least or like a preditor at worst. But now I'm supposed to be giddy and run out to buy his merch. NOPE.

It doesn't matter how you guys feel. You have to look at it from Watsons standpoint.

We have to make a few assumptions here, but it will make the point more clear for you.

Let's say Watson did none of this. All of the civil charges were flim flam. To "clear" his name he would have had to go through 20 trials. How much do you think that would cost? It was far cheaper to cut bait and settle. Earlier I said "clear" his name. Do you actually think winning all of the potential cases would have "cleared" his name?

Go back 20 years, OJ was found no guilty in his trial for killing his wife...or ex wife, whatever she was at the time. Did being found not guilty "clear" his name? You still have people saying,,,being found not guilty isn't the same as being innocent. In other words, the sap sucker is guilty but got off.

I don't think Watson has any chance no matter what of clearing his name. Too many people already have their minds made up. That being the case, you take the easiest, quickest way out to put it behind you and move on. Moving on is the only real way to start taking the eraser to this situation....and even then a smudge will always remain.


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Of all the owners, Snyder's case is the worst. The NFL let him get away w/his transgressions and threw out Grudin as sacrificial bait. However, now that Snyder is dealing w/claims that he hid revenue from the NFL, the league might take action. Sexual impropriety and harassment is one thing for the NFL and money is another.

And while Kraft and Jones have also been named by the NFLPA by the NFLPA in their defense of Watson, Snyder's case is the worst of them all. I can't see how the NFL could justify punishing Watson severely after they let Snyder off w/just a fine of $10 million.

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To many of us forget, judge not- there is only one just judge. JMHO, guess for 20 of the countless ladies- some wanted the MONEY, was it for justice or just a money grab....we will never know. I'm disappointed he settled, but that is the way the rich take care of their problems. Money, many times, is the bottom line. I'll root whole-heartedly for DW because he's a fab athlete and QB, and because he does far more good than evil in the community. All of us human beings are imperfect.....GO Browns!!!


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"Alex, what is something a message board stalker would say."


Tackles are tackles.
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