The other thread is 10 pages long and will be locked. I'm hoping all those who are defending Watson go hard at the NFL for unfair practices when it comes to white owners vs black players.
This guy isn't the best speaker and had a fact or two wrong, but I get the gist of what he is saying. And I think a lot of black Americans get it. I especially am in favor of Watson's defense teams to push for full disclosure in all these other cases involving Snyder, Kraft, Jones, and even Irsay. I want the travesty of how Zeke's case highlighted. I want the leaking of Grudin's emails as a diversionary tactic to protect Snyder highlighted. I want the Flores lawsuit to be considered when it comes to the NFL and unfair practices. Enough is enough!
Do you think it was okay for Kraft to frequent a business that allegedly had women who were victims of the sex trafficking trade? Do you not understand from the articles I posted that advocates equate that to rape? And I am not accusing Kraft of rape, but those poor girls didn't have a choice. They were forced into it. Why frequent such places? How is that okay and what Watson did is not okay? And all we are asking for is full disclosure by the NFL and a fair and impartial judgement for both the owners and the players. Is that a travesty?
I knew this was where it was going. Nobody is ever responsible for anything. It's race-hustling BS.
I happen to agree that the Black community gets punished more for the same offenses, that they are not treated equally within the legal/judicial system. Statistics bear that out. But this is deflection and a fire drill to misdirect. I hope whoever is guilty of whatever is fully prosecuted - if it is Kraft, Snyder - whoever. Get em. The NFL misconduct policy is about bringing the NFL into a negative light. It spells out that the issues do not have to be criminal in nature. With 26 accusations and all the details we know - does anyone think Watson has not put the NFL in disrepute.
Last edited by mgh888; 06/18/2205:06 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
And Dave........I am not harassing you or attacking your opinion. I am asking honest questions. You know I like you and have reached out to you to see how you are doing. I am not attacking you. Just trying to get you to consider that by frequenting such a business, one is thereby enabling such practices. That can't be seen in a a positive light. It's downright sleazy if you ask me.
Oh, FFS! Of course its sleazy as hell. If you look up "sleazy" in the dictionary they might have pictures of Kraft, Snyder, and Jones. But frequenting a house, or parlor, of ill repute where you have no knowledge of the paid help's circumstances of employment is not in the same realm as 26 deposed, under oath, accusations of sexual abuse. I don't accept the equivalence, and I really regret that it has taken this turn towards the racial aspects. I don't think Watson's race has anything to do with the situation he is facing. I think it was his behavior that brought all this about.
It's not about "if he knew". It's about the results of his actions. His money went directly to a human trafficking ring.
And this?
Quote
His money went to a human trafficking ring. He's a celebrity. So his name is out there. Poor Robert Kraft....
If you buy weed and it comes from a Mexican cartel, it's not your fault you're supporting a Mexican cartel. Cause you didn't know where it came from, right?
And guess who said this?
Quote
I'll wait until more facts come out before I issue some huge moral judgement.
And this?
Quote
I don't have all the facts yet and my opinion can change. But, right now, I don't think what Kraft did is a big deal. In fact, I think it's only a big deal because he is such a large public figure.
I do think the issue of trafficking is very serious and is a huge concern in our society. I put it well above illegal immigration on the list of the things we must fix. It's like the dirtiest underside of our global society. It doesn't get any worse than that, especially because minors are often involved. I applaud folks like Hue Jackson who donated time and money to combat the travesty that is human trafficking.
But, as of right now, I don't think Kraft knew that was going on. I think he wanted to get laid and to that...I say big deal. In fact, we had a conversation on here years ago as to why don't people w/money [we were talking about NFL players at the time] just pay for sex instead of risking picking up some strange and then risking that strange accusing them of rape and/or abuse? Most of us don't see a problem w/people wanting to have sex. If you have money, prostitution is probably safer when you want some strange.
Now, if Kraft was aware of the trafficking aspect of this and that is why he went to that place..............my position will change dramatically. Until then, I don't like all the sensationalism.
So you can just lie now, making up racial hate where it doesn't exist AND crimes that weren't committed, to merely twist the narrative to your NARROW widely-unsupported view because you want to back a very convincing example of a sexual predator? And you go so low as to say it's a white-black thing when the white guys are getting drug through the same type of mud as the black guy? Yet the mounting evidence is overwhelming against the one you support, and pretty much doesn't exist against the others that you disparaged. Well, that doesn't sound very reasonable, rational, logical, fair, or decent of YOU, does it? And Vers, get bent w/your hypocrisy. AND LIES.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 06/18/2210:08 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
IMO this is a trial case for the NFL and the NFLPA.
With the new agreement in place it is not completely clear about appeal and challenge when a decision is made.
If as an example the process goes down and a one year suspension is given. The NFLPA will challenge the ruling. They will come back and site Kraft and Jerry Jones. That would mean opening those cases back up. A airing out in the public. The NFL does not want that.
So this becomes a test case.
I don't think any answer to this is automatic. People who think they know. Don't know.
There is a lot at stake here.
I don't have a clue. It has gotten to a point where I don't even know what justice should like like. "Personal Conduct Code" is vague and subjective.
If there were criminal charges it would be more clear.
In the case of DW and Kraft it is not a matter of comparison. It is a matter of personal conduct. None of it looks good. But if a ruling is made. It needs to be fair and balanced. You can not rule against DW and go blind to Kraft and Jones. Jones is the owner so him doing nothing in the "peeping Tom" case is being complicit.
Do you think it was okay for Kraft to frequent a business that allegedly had women who were victims of the sex trafficking trade? Do you not understand from the articles I posted that advocates equate that to rape? And I am not accusing Kraft of rape, but those poor girls didn't have a choice. They were forced into it. Why frequent such places? How is that okay and what Watson did is not okay? And all we are asking for is full disclosure by the NFL and a fair and impartial judgement for both the owners and the players. Is that a travesty?
Did the woman/women that provided service to Kraft ever complain?
I'm asking because I don't remember that happening. That does make it a little different I suppose. If he hadn't been caught, there would be no story.
Funny thing is this, Escort, Sugarbabies and such are everywhere... Guys like Watson and Kraft can afford to hire or engage with any of them and would probably never have an issue.
Neither escorts or SB's can speak up in public. Can't blackmail them because they are committing crimes themselves by offering such services..
For me, this is simple, Hire a Hooker.. Do your thing and walk away.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Did the woman/women that provided service to Kraft ever complain?
Could they even speak English? Did they fear for their lives if they spoke up? I don't know, but it's something to consider when these massage parlors are involved.
Quote
I'm asking because I don't remember that happening. That does make it a little different I suppose. If he hadn't been caught, there would be no story.
Funny thing is this, Escort, Sugarbabies and such are everywhere... Guys like Watson
and Kraft can afford to hire or engage with any of them and would probably never have an issue.
Neither escorts or SB's can speak up in public. Can't blackmail them because they are committing crimes themselves by offering such services..
For me, this is simple, Hire a Hooker.. Do your thing and walk away.
These oriental massage parlors are a little different than escorts and sugar babies.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Do you think it was okay for Kraft to frequent a business that allegedly had women who were victims of the sex trafficking trade? Do you not understand from the articles I posted that advocates equate that to rape? And I am not accusing Kraft of rape, but those poor girls didn't have a choice. They were forced into it. Why frequent such places? How is that okay and what Watson did is not okay? And all we are asking for is full disclosure by the NFL and a fair and impartial judgement for both the owners and the players. Is that a travesty?
Who is this "we" you are speaking of? Can you tell me if the massage parlor in question was charged or convicted of sex trafficking? I can tell you. I can also tell you that saying the video was destroyed is a lie. The video was not allowed in as evidence. Charges were dropped against all of more than 20 men charged, not just Kraft and the acts were consensual. So no, not even the massage parlor was convicted or even charged with sex trafficking. It was and always has been called a prostitution ring by law enforcement.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Do you think it was okay for Kraft to frequent a business that allegedly had women who were victims of the sex trafficking trade? Do you not understand from the articles I posted that advocates equate that to rape? And I am not accusing Kraft of rape, but those poor girls didn't have a choice. They were forced into it. Why frequent such places? How is that okay and what Watson did is not okay? And all we are asking for is full disclosure by the NFL and a fair and impartial judgement for both the owners and the players. Is that a travesty?
Who is this "we" you are speaking of? Can you tell me if the massage parlor in question was charged or convicted of sex trafficking? I can tell you. I can also tell you that saying the video was destroyed is a lie. The video was not allowed in as evidence. Charges were dropped against all of more than 20 men charged, not just Kraft and the acts were consensual. So no, not even the massage parlor was convicted or even charged with sex trafficking. It was and always has been called a prostitution ring by law enforcement.
Hmmmmm.........
Quote
Guess who said this?
Quote It's not about "if he knew". It's about the results of his actions. His money went directly to a human trafficking ring.
And this?
Quote His money went to a human trafficking ring. He's a celebrity. So his name is out there. Poor Robert Kraft....
If you buy weed and it comes from a Mexican cartel, it's not your fault you're supporting a Mexican cartel. Cause you didn't know where it came from, right?
JMHO, this saga we are in is going to get real messy. We have white billionaires/ or close on one side who got slaps on the wrist for sexual issues. I will grant you the numbers are different, but old adage - money talks and [censored] walks seems to be in play. Multi-Super Bowl winner owner, Kraft, get off on tech. issue- everyone knows he was guilty, yet he walks with NOTHING. A several hundred million dollar black man, whose sexual value system isn't like white society- he who broke NO laws, he POSSIBLY will lose a whole years worth of employment because he likes sex......burn all men who like sex. His lawyers, with a large bankroll are going to have a field day with the NFL. This situation stinks at every level.....but, remember, smile, the lawyers win always......Go Browns!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
JMHO, you are naive to think white and black society are the same regarding sex. How can a masseuse have issues with ANY body part. If a penis is seen or touched- dear God, it is the end of the world. We, the white society, are judging him with know LITTLE of what happen or his concept of right or wrong---are their any nudist in the world/ doing things lot "worst" than seeing or touching a penis- are they being convicted by public and denied right to work.....and the white zillionaires get a walk.....this whole thing is baloney. Lawyers win, they are laughing all the way to the banks. Go Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Nobody cares if he had sex, they care if he's a predator. What's so hard to understand about that? And this black-white BS on this is borderline idiocy. None of them had any business doing it, but Kraft didn't get accused of unwanted advances or taking advantage of situations he arranged, like Cosby. No that's DW. But you are right about him having odd sexual behavior, but I doubt many black people approve of what he was doing either. They may defend him because he's a black athlete and thinks he's being wronged, but not on his actions that I've seen. I think it's shameful you tried to word it as cultural differences. That's a crock.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 06/19/2209:52 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Perhaps we should allow the legal system to determine innocence or guilt instead of pretending we are omniscient and burning witches at the stake in the court of public opinion? I think it is shameful for people to be so adamant about assigning guilt and trashing anyone who wishes to allow the legal system to handle the legal proceedings.
OCD, just for your info. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4016194/, lots of studies show black teens engage in sex earlier, with more partners, and have less social stigma against sex than other ethnic groups- in order- blacks, hispanics, whites, asians. That's just one study.....there are lots....it isn't a new problem....decades...maybe centuries. Some public housing situations are more like government funded cat houses....studies of biological offspring would be useful. I'd ask you or anyone, what is normal? We, humans, are real diverse- we have problems about who can use which bathroom due to various plumbing. Again, I strongly state white money gets favored treatment- our politics shows that too- NFL has a huge snake bag and it is going to bite them. JMHO, Watson should have NO punishment- not because he is pure as snow, but because he's human AND he broke no laws. He broke white Puritan values, but has not broken legal laws....that we know of.....Go Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Amen to that. Guilty, prove your innocence- that's the law of the land. Right. Except if you're a white billionaire ex-president who is above the law...oops, sorry, different forum. Go Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
OCD, just for your info. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4016194/, lots of studies show black teens engage in sex earlier, with more partners, and have less social stigma against sex than other ethnic groups- in order- blacks, hispanics, whites, asians. That's just one study.....there are lots....it isn't a new problem....decades...maybe centuries. Some public housing situations are more like government funded cat houses....studies of biological offspring would be useful. I'd ask you or anyone, what is normal? We, humans, are real diverse- we have problems about who can use which bathroom due to various plumbing. Again, I strongly state white money gets favored treatment- our politics shows that too- NFL has a huge snake bag and it is going to bite them. JMHO, Watson should have NO punishment- not because he is pure as snow, but because he's human AND he broke no laws. He broke white Puritan values, but has not broken legal laws....that we know of.....Go Browns!!!
Had all 26 (or should I say 66) women he used as masseuses white skin? If not then your logic makes no sense.
Why making this a race issue when it’s a question about a man who used his fame and power in the wrong way and made at least 26 women so uncomfortable that they decided to sue him. Just show me one single man in the whole world who’s sued by 26 women for sexual misconduct. Just one so we have something to compare with.
OCD, just for your info. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4016194/, lots of studies show black teens engage in sex earlier, with more partners, and have less social stigma against sex than other ethnic groups- in order- blacks, hispanics, whites, asians. That's just one study.....there are lots....it isn't a new problem....decades...maybe centuries. Some public housing situations are more like government funded cat houses....studies of biological offspring would be useful. I'd ask you or anyone, what is normal? We, humans, are real diverse- we have problems about who can use which bathroom due to various plumbing. Again, I strongly state white money gets favored treatment- our politics shows that too- NFL has a huge snake bag and it is going to bite them. JMHO, Watson should have NO punishment- not because he is pure as snow, but because he's human AND he broke no laws. He broke white Puritan values, but has not broken legal laws....that we know of.....Go Browns!!!
Had all 26 (or should I say 66) women he used as masseuses white skin? If not then your logic makes no sense.
Why making this a race issue when it’s a question about a man who used his fame and power in the wrong way and made at least 26 women so uncomfortable that they decided to sue him. Just show me one single man in the whole world who’s sued by 26 women for sexual misconduct. Just one so we have something to compare with.
Non consensual, unwelcome, forced, manipulated sexual activity is not acceptable. Using race as a basis for trying to justify it is wrong.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Oh, FFS! Of course its sleazy as hell. If you look up "sleazy" in the dictionary they might have pictures of Kraft, Snyder, and Jones. But frequenting a house, or parlor, of ill repute where you have no knowledge of the paid help's circumstances of employment is not in the same realm as 26 deposed, under oath, accusations of sexual abuse. I don't accept the equivalence, and I really regret that it has taken this turn towards the racial aspects. I don't think Watson's race has anything to do with the situation he is facing. I think it was his behavior that brought all this about.
IMO, the Kraft situation and the Watson situation are clearly not totally equivalent. I'm no lawyer, but I'd be willing to bet there's enough separating the two to kneecap any sort of 'whattabout' defense that the NFLPA is reportedly working on.
But for this board (again IMO), it's a worthy comparison given the VERY different treatment both are getting. I find it legitimately funny that we have people making the argument that Watson should be locked up and thrown away the key while ignoring that Kraft got off with basically no punishment. Neither cases had enough evidence come forward to justify bigtime punishment, but Kraft seems to be the only one able to benefit. One situation was swept under the rug because people assume that consent was a non-issue, but people have their pitchforks and torches out because they assume consent was an issue with Watson.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I don't think anyone says Kraft should have got away with anything. I think if Kraft was the Browns owner there would be much more discussion and opinion expressed.
And saying they are not totally equivalent does not do relative situations justice. One is alleged to have sexually assaulted multiple women. At worst coerced and used his power and influence to intimidate them into non-consensual sexual acts .... the other was at one time alleged to have solicited prostitution. Those are not the same.
We had one poster deceitfully try to frame the discussion about one case being sex trafficking, and ignoring that while "crucifying" Watson.... that is not the situation, it never was, it's a flat lie and manipulation.
I've said I hope Kraft and any other owner that transgresses the law gets punished to the full and appropriate extent of the law. I've said if Watson had sought and found consensual partners even if he paid them, I would not care.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Amen to that. Guilty, prove your innocence- that's the law of the land. Right. Except if you're a white billionaire ex-president who is above the law...oops, sorry, different forum. Go Browns!!!
In a sport where fans consider they no longer want you on their team when you ask for a trade the idea that you must be found guilty in court of 26 SA lawsuits before fans can make the same statement is just crazy.
So you quote a video where even the massage parlor wasn't charged with or convicted of human trafficking... then once again post and act like it had something to do with human trafficking. lmao
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Why are posters permitted to continue to lie about what another says? 888 has repeatedly misrepresented my intent. I explained myself several times. Had I believed what he claims, I would have said it. I am not shy about stating my opinions and I could care less of what the likes of him and Pit think. Yet, he continues to spin his lie over and over. He does so to convince others of things that are not true and to win some stupid board argument. That is underhanded and weird, as is the countess time he spends on me each and every single day. Damn, get a life.
One is alleged to have sexually assaulted multiple women. At worst coerced and used his power and influence to intimidate them into non-consensual sexual acts .... the other was at one time alleged to have solicited prostitution. Those are not the same.
Only if you assume Kraft had no knowledge or suspicion that sex trafficking was going on. THAT is the crux of my point. One got the benefit of the doubt, while the other one probably won't. Of all the things we've been tearing each other up over, I think there's actually something to unpack here.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
You do realize that the massage parlor was not charged with nor convicted of sex trafficking, right? I felt the exact same way with my initial feelings on the matter. But as more and more information came out, I realized there was no basis for such allegations. Soliciting prostitution is a crime. I believe Kraft got off easier than he should have. But I've seen no basis after everything unfolded to indicate this was some human/sex trafficking ring.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Wasn't that due to lack of evidence? Wasn't video evidence destroyed?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
No, it was not destroyed. I actually have no idea where people got that from. It was simply not allowed into evidence. The videos were actually conducted by the police themselves. But the court ruled they could not be entered into evidence. So I guess if you consider it a lack of evidence because a judge wouldn't allow them to use it, then yes, possibly. But there was no destruction of the video. Unless it happened after it was decided it could not be used in court.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Kraft also did not have women accusing him and suing him for sexual misconduct. Not even one, much less 24..... and counting. As far as I know, nobody has sued the massage parlor for sex trafficking or sexual abuse either.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So it was court ordered after a judge said it could not be used as evidence. I thought you were suggesting it was destroyed to prevent it from being used in court. As I suggested might be the case above.....
Quote
But there was no destruction of the video. Unless it happened after it was decided it could not be used in court.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
