DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Watson be the Browns Starting QB...continued

How I feel about Baker does not impact how much I like Watson - not one iota.
How I feel about Baker does not impact the allegations that were levied against Baker.
How I feel about Baker *might* impact how I view the trade. But the trade - in my opinion - is a bust if DW is suspended for more than 10 games.

Despite liking Baker - the NFL is a business. When he played Watson was 'elite' at the most important position on the team. I can like Baker but embrace a new QB that is elite and gives the team a better chance to win a SB. But not one with 26 accusations that were levied against him. Who paid off a Spa owner's as if she was a pimp. A QB who already had a bad reputation with the team therapist for his conduct with therapists she booked. Who made therapists cry and acts like that's normal and nothing to do with him. Who shows zero remorse or empathy.

Never having been in a situation like Big Ben and Watson I can't say for sure what I would do, but I'd like to believe that if I knew I was innocent and being railroaded, that I would chose to fight rather than settle..

We found some strange mushrooms spilled on the floor in Fantasy & Gaming.

Just booze. My mother-in-law passed away and my wife was w/her up in PA. I should not have come on here while being wasted. I apologize for all my dumb-ass posts.

I can only speak for myself...

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TASTE
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Sorry for your loss.

My condolences to you and your wife.

Take care of you and yours first...

Kind of. Baker is kind of that attractive woman you didn't like because she was kind of bitchy and didn't give you the time of day. Then she starts to give you attention and you convince yourself that, hey, she's an attractive woman, why not. Unfortunately, spend any time around her and you realize she's a vapid narcissist, and you can't get away fast enough. She's still an attractive woman, but you'd much rather have her be someone else's problem day to day while occasionally enjoying the view.

I'm still in the don't know what to think of Watson off the field because none of the information feels concrete or it can be interpreted multiple ways, and the majority of the coverage has a very witch hunty feel. All the on the field/team culture stuff sounds good. So, I hope he's innocent and try to see ways that that could be the case because I'm not the kind of fan that wants to be miserable and spread misery around.

To: OCD and Vers,

You both basically asked for my answer to "so... what now?" If I got that wrong, let me know.

I'll try to lay this out as clearly as possible. There are lots of gut feelings driving this that make it hard to logically talk through. "I feel how I feel, and that's just how it is." I just can't say for sure if I can root for a team with a sexual predator in such a visible role. It's something I really don't have an answer for... I don't know how I'm going to feel Week1 (or whenever he takes the field). Many of the details that were included were REALLY bad. Disgusting. I never got any sort of satisfaction from seeing Pittsburgh drawn into the Big Ben rape controversy, but I DID think really hard to myself "man, I'm so glad we don't have any of THAT on my team". Anecdotally, I've heard there is a contingent of Squeeler fans who have an asterisk next to the seasons he played.

It's tough to figure out. I have a lot of conflicting feelings. I'll just say that I had a personal situation that kinda runs parallel to this, which is why I think I'm stewing over this so much. To one of Vers's points... I do understand that we're talking about a pro athlete here. No team, ever, was made up of choir boys (except maybe those Mangini teams, and we saw how that turned out). Like I said before, Ray Lewis has a statue, as does Jim Brown. Dan Snyder probably, when all is said and done, come away with all his stuff with a slap on the wrist. Jerry Jones (IIRC has similar allegations as Snyder) probably won't have to deal with anything at all. That WR that basically never knew a woman he didn't want to hit just got a bajillion dollars to play in Miami... and never really had to be accountable to what he did. It's not right, but the reality is that the bar is MUCH lower for pro athletes (NFL players, in particular).
But that doesn't really clarify anything for me because I never had to cheer for those guys (usually cheered against them because of it).

Vers,
Knowing more facts could've led to me believing his side of the story more. That's what I was hoping for.

I really enjoyed this take on it.

I got a good laugh with your analogy.

Well said, and I do agree. Believe me, reading through these threads over the past few months, I was thinking to myself, "after 1-31, Holmgren, Mangini/Kokinis, Pettine/Farmer, the Shanny exit, the Manziel/Gordon/Kizer/Quinn v Anderson/etc sagas, is this really going to be the thing that breaks my fandom?" I'm still here after all that....

It would definitely help my feeling on the situation if he were to seek help and take his problem seriously. All reports prior to all this getting going was that he was an A+ human being.

Sometimes that is the smart thing to do, sometimes that is a dumb thing to do.

Of all the systems, I say being charged by a federal prosecutor results in more innocent people behind bars than anywhere else.

They simply work on deals. They don't want to try crap. Even if innocent, the circumstantial evidence against you leaves you with a decision of take 5 years, maybe out earlier, or go to trial where you might get a firm 20 years. It's easy to say you would take the risk, but would you??

In this case is there really a way to clear Watsons name. OJ was found not guilty and he never cleared his name. There are multiple others.

The system isn't set up for people to clear their name. The attorney for the plaintiff can paint any picture he or she wants before trial. Opinions in the public are made there. At some point people just want to get the nightmare over, guilty or not. Not to point at you so much, but your comment proves my point.

You also need to consider that cases like this usually aren't brought up because unless a lot of money is going to possibly be awarded, no attorney is going to take the case on contingency or pro bono. If it is just Joe Blow accused and it dies in or before criminal court, it never goes civil, it just goes away.

Vers - deepest condolences to you and your family on your loss.

We lost my mother-in-law not even 2 weeks ago, so I know what you're going through. Take care.

Sorry to hear that, Vers. Condolences.

Report: Settlement talks between NFL, NFLPA, and Deshaun Watson “fell apart”

Posted by Mike Florio on June 23, 2022, 1:17 PM EDT
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Last week, we pointed out that a negotiated resolution of Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson‘s discipline was possible, but not likely. The problem was that Watson, as of last week, was determined to clear his name.

With Watson settling 20 of the 24 cases pending against him, that possibly will lay the foundation for a settlement between the league, the union, and Watson.


Josina Anderson of CBS Sports reports that negotiations have indeed occurred. However, talks “fell apart” regarding the extent of the punishment.

Negotiated discipline is not unprecedented. The outcome is announced as the punishment being final, with the player waiving his appeal rights.

Complicating matters for Watson is the fact that there’s no precedent for the new procedure that starts with the NFL proposing a punishment, continues with an independent Disciplinary Officer setting the discipline, if any, and the Commissioner having jurisdiction over any appeal from the player or the team. Unless the Disciplinary Officer decides to impose no discipline at all, Goodell gets the final crack at determining the punishment.

The best outcome for Watson would be to settle everything. Settle the lawsuits. Settle the discipline. Serve the suspension. And then come back, play good football, win games, stay out of trouble, and in time much of this incident will be forgotten. Just like it was for Ben Roethlisberger.

Exactly. I have no idea how or why the conversation went in the direction it has if one actually reads what he said. And I'm quite certain anybody needs an advanced English degree to see that. Or at least they shouldn't. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm just saying in this case his words aren't that nuanced nor complicated to understand.

Did we even read the same statement from watson? NOTHING in his statement even hints that this counseling is related to sexual issues or that it's something he "agreed to". It actually indicated it was more about the stress and pressure he's been under with the lawsuits. I have no idea how you came up with such conclusions based on his statement. And if you look at it, it appears the counseling has been ongoing and isn't new.

His statement about getting counseling came before the settlement, not after.

Now you can say that he claimed he didn't need counseling, which he did. But the setting was in regards to him needing counseling surrounding and involving the sexual allegations. Which nothing in his statement claims he is doing.

Only four teams made any serious attempts to "bring him in". Even you know that no matter what you are posting here. To be nice I'll call that deceitful at best.

He still has on-going cases, so he's really not going to say anything (at least anything he can't walk back).

It doesn't take a huge leap to connect the two, though.

Where's the brotherly love man? I'm tellin' mom!

Report: Deshaun Watson Suspension Negotiations 'Fell Apart' over Number of Games

JOSEPH ZUCKER
JUNE 23, 2022
link


Recent discussions over the length of the suspension that will be issued to Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson for violations of the NFL's personal conduct policy "fell apart," according to CBS Sports HQ's Josina Anderson.

Anderson reported the NFL, NFL Players Association and advisors for Watson were unable to reach an agreement over how many games he would be suspended.

Amid numerous allegations and 24 civil lawsuits accusing Watson of sexual assault or misconduct during massage therapy sessions, he missed the entire 2021 season with the Houston Texans. But the league has yet to render a final judgment after launching its own investigation into the allegations.

In May, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said the league was "nearing the end" of its inquiry. However, the New York Times' Jenny Vrentas reported on new allegations against Watson, a story that also implicated the Texans.

Per Vrentas, Watson said in a deposition he had alerted Houston's director of security, Brent Naccara, after a woman said she "could really expose you" in reference to the three-time Pro Bowler after he allegedly touched her and made unwanted sexual advances without her consent during massage sessions.

Watson said Naccara subsequently left a nondisclosure agreement in his locker, which he then began taking with him to massage appointments.

Per Vrentas, Watson also said in a deposition that the team had provided him with a membership to a private club and hotel where multiple massage therapy appointments were held and that membership was not in his name. One woman who had a massage appointment with Watson at the hotel said the room was under the name of a member of the Texans' training staff.

Vrentas' report led many to wonder whether the NFL's investigation would extend further or lengthen Watson's punishment.

The Washington Post's Mark Maske reported on June 17 the NFL believes Watson violated the league's personal conduct policy and should get a "significant" suspension. A season-long ban was cited as a possible outcome.

Mike Jones of USA Today also reported one year was the expected period of time.

Under the terms of the most recent collective bargaining agreement, the NFL cannot unilaterally hand down a suspension for Watson. An independent disciplinary officer—currently former district court judge Sue L. Robinson—weighs in as well, though the commissioner can amend the disciplinary officer's ruling when a suspension is deemed appropriate. Any suspension would also be eligible for appeal by the NFLPA.

"This first case being resolved under the new disciplinary system is a high-profile matter," Maske wrote. "A person on Watson’s side wondered whether Goodell might be reluctant to overturn the neutral arbitrator’s disciplinary ruling in the first case."

In the meantime, Watson has settled the majority of the civil lawsuits against him. Tony Buzbee, who represents the plaintiffs, said on Tuesday 20 of the 24 suits have been settled.

I really, really doubt they are his words.... they are the words of hired help paid to improve his image by saying the right things. jmo but the odds are very strong.

She disowned you.

Consider yourself corrected. You refuse to admit that the reason everyone on your list objects to watson being the QB here is strictly due to the sexual allegations of 24 women. Most everyone on your list believes and has stated that watson is he better QB "on the field". I'm sure everyone on your list wants or wanted to see the Browns win a SB which the odds are certainly better with watson.

So according to your reasoning everyone on your list just hates watson and they're ire is because they love Baker?

Yes, consider yourself corrected.

Exactly. I just find it hard to believe that people would actually read his statement and try to connect so many dots that aren't even there.

yeah, I thought about correcting him as far as his assessment of me, but decided not to do that.

She told me she disowned you. There she goes playing us against each other again.

No, I didn't have everyone hating Watson and loving Baker.

Regardless, I was drunk on my ass and should have never posted last night. I apologize for all the BS I stirred up.

So sorry for your loss Vers. My sympathies to you and your family.

My deepest sympathies to you and your family Cap.

Thanks to you and others who offered sympathies. You guys are kind. However, I don't want anymore of that. I feel bad for my wife and I drank too much. I just brought it up to apologize for my behavior last night. I was out of line. Hopefully, people can forgive and we can move on.