As we wait for the latest cases to be filed against the Browns star QB, it seems that we are no closer to the end..no closer to answering the question concerning Watson starting the season under center.
Hopefully, we will get a clearer picture of what the future holds for our Cleveland Browns 2022 season. The waiting is tough..!
Deshaun Watson wants to “clear my name,” but it’s probably far too late for that
Posted by Mike Florio on June 15, 2022, 5:02 PM EDT link
When meeting with reporters for the first time since March 25, Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson was asked whether he will settle the 26 (and possibly counting) cases pending against him. He said, “I just want to clear my name,” and that he plans to do so through the legal process.
As a practical matter, it’s too late for that. His only chance at this point would be to stumble over evidence showing that it really was and is one giant conspiracy involving a still-growing collection of frivolous claims bundled together to shake him down for a major cash payment. Given that no evidence of such a ruse has emerged to date (months after 18 of the plaintiffs agreed to take $100,000 in settlement of their claims but the deals fell apart because four refused), the chances are at this point that it won’t.
Some would say that Watson can clear his name by winning every single trial of every single case. Beyond the fact that winning 26 (or more) trials will be roughly the same as winning 26 (or more) coin tosses, the trials will consist of testimony and other evidence being provided in open court, over and over and over again. For those who already believe based on the sheer volume of the claims that he’s more predator than prey, 26 (or more) trials won’t erase that — even if the jury sides with him every single time.
There are just too many of these claims, and it’s lasted for far too long. Many compare Watson’s situation to the off-field issues that engulfed Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in 2010. However, he faced only two claims, not 26 (or more). He was suspended, he served his time, he took the Steelers to the Super Bowl that season, the off-field situations resulted in no trials or other lingering entanglements, and within a year or two it was basically forgotten. By the time he retired, some Steelers fans bristled at even the mention of the fact that it occurred.
For Watson, it’s too late. He had a chance to prevent lasting damage from being done in early 2021, but his representatives refused to engage in negotiations after the first plaintiff requested $100,000 before filing suit. (An opener of $100,000 hints strongly at final settlement in the range of $50,000 to $75,000.) They refused to make an offer in response, which pissed off attorney Tony Buzbee. That sparked an avalanche of claims that may have never been filed if Watson had simply settled the first case and ended it.
Then, all pending cases were poised to settle in April 2021. The talks broke down over the question of whether the settlements would include nondisclosure agreements. Buzbee and his clients wanted one; Watson and attorney Rusty Hardin didn’t, presumably so that they could let everyone know that the cases were settled for a payment in the range of peanuts.
Apart from the fact that it will now be much more expensive to settle the cases, the situation has generated headline after headline after headline, few of which have been good for Watson. In the 22 days since HBO’s Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel televised a feature focusing on the situation, it’s gone straight downhill for Watson in the court of public opinion.
Even if he settles all of the cases today, too many things have happened. Too much time has passed. Too many cases have been filed. There’s no way to turn the clock back to March 2021.
I want to touch on all the back and forth on why Watson wanted out of Houston... race may have played a bit of it but honestly I think it was primarily he completely lost trust of the entire FO... they traded his best receiver whom he was very close to without telling him... told him he'd be involved in the GM and coaching hire but then didn't include him at all.... all three of those decisions were AWFUL decisions by the Texans...
The Hopkins trade is one of the worst I've seen... only one that quickly comes to mind being worse than that was Indy trading for Richardson....Cassiro has been ok... but he was 100% a homer, boys club hire... Easterby is awful... and Cassiro is only with the Texans because he's buddies with Easterby... Culley was an AWFUL hire... you want to talk about hiring someone to tank the season?? Culley is a really nice guy, which is how he got the job... they needed someone nice to get away from BOB.... but no one thought he'd last more than 1 season when he was hired... frankly I thought he wouldn't last 10 games...
Watson did become more active and vocal after Bob McNair had his inmates comment... and the rest of the Texans FO tried to do some lip service to save face... they did some interviews about diversity with various players which felt pretty awkward... so maybe race played a part of the reason he wanted out... but the biggest reason is he completely lost trust in the FO...
same reason Baker will never play for the Browns again..
I would agree w/that jay. I just was trying to debunk the line of thought that a couple of posters are saying he wanted out because he couldn't pick the coach. The situation was far more complicated than that.
Boy, the NFLs verdict can’t come soon enough imo. It’s this suspension suspense that killing me most. Let the hammer drop already. Then everyone can basically stop talking about it and move back to football. Probably 3 more weeks before we know (that he’s probably gone for the year) and little more than drip drip drip of new bad news sucking all the air out of everything Browns. Let this and the Baler fiasco be done. Unless the Browns do something else colossally stupid before the start of the season. Never say never!
The NFL will wait until the last possible moment to render a decision on Watson, to see if anything else comes out. But the barn is getting full, day by day, and I would not be shocked if DW has to sit another year out of football. What an embarrassing situation this has become.
I like Bake, but I’m not a Baker minion - I’ve said it before, I recognize his flaws - there is a part of me though, that sees him suiting up for the Browns. He’d have to swallow some pride and agree to a working relationship with the HC, and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility.
By the way, Stefanski survived several regime changes in Minnesota. Did he get lucky, or as a Vikings’ fan/ friend of mine once wondered, was he a snitch?
I don’t even blame Baker for calling out the play calls at some points last season. Why did Stefanski keep leaving Hudson out at RT, to single-block Watt in the last Pittsburg game?
And KS did make a lot of dumb play calls - they all do - but early in the game, kick the field goal instead of going for it on fourth and six or seven. Analytics does not measure momentum.
Will Watson be the Browns starting QB? Most likely not. I'd be shocked if he was. I'd give Jacoby Brissett at least half the snaps in practice with the first stringers... have him ready to go.
Yea, I don’t have any clue what that means in this context either.
As stupid as the FO has been in all of this I still have the (unfounded but) sneaking suspicion that Haslam was the driving force in the Watson decision, and maybe the source of the “need and adult” quote. It just reeks of old butter fingers. Firing everyone would just compound these errors mightily and truly set the franchise way back.
Yeah, I hope we don't go back to firing everyone yet again. I have grown to like this group.
If we take away that they’re calm and well rehearsed at their press conferences what have they actually done that make you so confident about their ability?
I see several red flags.
The OBJ saga How they handled Baker. Not to mention the $230m contract, no draft picks 3 year in a row and their so called investigation. The cringeworthy press conference when they introduced Watson. Even if they tried again nothing could end up worse from a PR standpoint.
From my perspective the Browns FO has totally failed to make the organization better the last 12 months. An absolutely disaster from pure management standpoint. If the 2022 season ends without a play off game and Watson hasn’t made a single snap then Berry and Stefanski is sack worthy in January 2023.
What are you talking about? I did listen to it. Unlike you, I was not posting it to further an agenda. There was both good and bad news in it. That is called "objectivity." You should try it some time.
I just wish he could just take his medicine...pay these young ladies restitution money. End this and negotiate with the NFL to get some seriously counseling. I honestly don't think he will be reinstated without agreeing to counseling.
What are you talking about? I did listen to it. Unlike you, I was not posting it to further an agenda. There was both good and bad news in it. That is called "objectivity." You should try it some time.
He learned all his objectivity from you and your Baker takes.
What are you talking about? I did listen to it. Unlike you, I was not posting it to further an agenda. There was both good and bad news in it. That is called "objectivity." You should try it some time.
The "BUT" I referenced came from Donovan early in the video when (@ the :48 second mark) the subject turned from how Watson looked on the field to the issues facing Watson on the field. Don't know if you listened to the video...here is the conversation I was referencing....
Donovan talks about Watson and how he looks on the field, then Donovan adds...
beginning @ :48..."BUT'..there's that big 'BUT' , David...there's that situation hanging out there, that you just say to yourself..BUT IS HE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PLAY..?...HOW MUCH IS HE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PLAY..?"
..."is he going be there on opening day down there in Charlotte when they play Carolina..how many games is he going to be out, IS HE GOING TO PLAY AT ALL THIS YEAR..?..." and I think that is why, since the trade was made, THERE HAS BEEN THIS SUPPRESSED EXCITEMENT...because normally you get a player like this, YOU WOULD GO WOW, I mean you couldn't get his jersey an hour after the trade was announced"...
..."that hasn't been the case because PEOPLE REALIZE THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE CHARGES THAT HAVE BEEN LEVIED AGAINST HIM, THAT CONTINUE TO GROW.."...
..."THAT'S THE HARD PART ABOUT THE WHOLE EQUATION.."....ending @ 1:29.
Now you know exactly what I was talking about and I agree with Donovan's assessment above. IMO, a vast majority of Browns fans hear the good and in same breath those Browns fans are not looking beyond the "BUT".
Per a source with knowledge of the intended strategy, the NFLPA currently is bracing for a recommendation by the league of “unprecedented” punishment of Watson. Whatever the specific penalty, the union will mobilize to defend Watson, as it is required to do by the federal duty of fair representation.
The source explains that the NFLPA would defend Watson in part by making an aggressive argument premised on the consequences, or lack thereof, imposed on a trio of owners who recently have found themselves embroiled in off-field controversy. The argument will be that the punishment of Watson is not proportional to the punishment of those owners, especially in light of this key line from the Personal Conduct Policy: “Ownership and club or league management have traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline when violations of the Personal Conduct Policy occur.”
According to the source, the union’s defense of Deshaun Watson will take specific aim at the league’s handling of Commanders owner Daniel Snyder, Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones.
As to Snyder, the union will argue that his punishment in light of the findings and potential recommendations of attorney Beth Wilkinson was weak and not fully enforced. As to Kraft, the union will argue that Kraft received no punishment despite allegedly receiving a massage became a sexual encounter. (Although Kraft was charged with solicitation, the case was dismissed based on the fact that the video surveillance utilized by law enforcement violated the rights of the various persons who were secretly recorded.) As to Jones, the union will argue that the league failed to investigate the voyeurism scandal involving former Cowboys P.R. chief Rich Dalrymple, including but not limited to the key questions of what Jones knew, when he knew it, and whether he knew that Dalrymple was secretly recording multiple cheerleaders while they changed their clothes.
The union believes that these arguments will be more likely to find traction than in the past, given the adoption in 2020 of a new, independent process for assessing potential Personal Conduct Policy violations committed by players. With Commissioner Roger Goodell or his designee no longer presiding over the effort to evaluate the evidence and reach a decision, the Disciplinary Officer ( retired federal judge Sue L. Robinson) could decide to allow the union to fully explore the manner in which the league handled Snyder, Kraft, and Jones.
The union, for example, could get access to evidence from Wilkinson’s investigation, the league’s handling of the information, and the key question of what Wilkinson would have recommended, if the league had bothered to ask her for a recommendation. (As previously reported, she would have recommended that Snyder be forced to sell.) The union also could get access to internal communications regarding whether Kraft should be disciplined, and whether Jones and the Cowboys should be investigated.
This approach would be separate from defending Watson against any claim of wrongdoing. It would be based on whether, even if he violated the policy with a habit of arranging private massages and trying to make those massages become sexual encounters, any punishment of Watson must be justified by the punishment imposed on Snyder, the non-punishment imposed on Kraft, and the lack of even an investigation of Jones.
Whether and to what extent this defense will hold any real water — and will gather any real evidence — will depend on Judge Robinson, who was jointly hired by the league and the union. But if the league means what it says when it says that owners are held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline for violations of the Personal Conduct Policy, the manner in which Snyder, Kraft, and Jones were handled by the league becomes directly relevant to the manner in which Watson is handled, too.
I would hope that if the NFLPA is actually required to defend Watson, that their defense isn't hinging on a unbiased former judge leveraging any sort of precedent set by Goodell's past punishments. The whole point of setting this up was because Goodell's punishments never made sense.
What are you talking about? I did listen to it. Unlike you, I was not posting it to further an agenda. There was both good and bad news in it. That is called "objectivity." You should try it some time.
The "BUT" I referenced came from Donovan early in the video when (@ the :48 second mark) the subject turned from how Watson looked on the field to the issues facing Watson on the field. Don't know if you listened to the video...here is the conversation I was referencing....
Donovan talks about Watson and how he looks on the field, then Donovan adds...
beginning @ :48..."BUT'..there's that big 'BUT' , David...there's that situation hanging out there, that you just say to yourself..BUT IS HE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PLAY..?...HOW MUCH IS HE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PLAY..?"
..."is he going be there on opening day down there in Charlotte when they play Carolina..how many games is he going to be out, IS HE GOING TO PLAY AT ALL THIS YEAR..?..." and I think that is why, since the trade was made, THERE HAS BEEN THIS SUPPRESSED EXCITEMENT...because normally you get a player like this, YOU WOULD GO WOW, I mean you couldn't get his jersey an hour after the trade was announced"...
..."that hasn't been the case because PEOPLE REALIZE THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE CHARGES THAT HAVE BEEN LEVIED AGAINST HIM, THAT CONTINUE TO GROW.."...
..."THAT'S THE HARD PART ABOUT THE WHOLE EQUATION.."....ending @ 1:29.
Now you know exactly what I was talking about and I agree with Donovan's assessment above. IMO, a vast majority of Browns fans hear the good and in same breath those Browns fans are not looking beyond the "BUT".
I knew exactly what you were talking about and that is why I replied the way I did. I am not like you and only present articles that one-sided points of view. I was fully aware of the "but" part and all that followed. It is important. I posted the video for informational purposes that addressed both the good and bad. Thus, the word "objective." A foreign word to some, but not all of us.
Good. I have mentioned this on multiple threads in regards to the strategy that I think Watson's team should take if the NFL wants to hammer Watson. I didn't mention Jerry Jones and did mention Irsay, but the strategy is the same. Different set of rules for rich, white owners than there are from the black, paid help.
Per a source with knowledge of the intended strategy, the NFLPA currently is bracing for a recommendation by the league of “unprecedented” punishment of Watson. Whatever the specific penalty, the union will mobilize to defend Watson, as it is required to do by the federal duty of fair representation.
The source explains that the NFLPA would defend Watson in part by making an aggressive argument premised on the consequences, or lack thereof, imposed on a trio of owners who recently have found themselves embroiled in off-field controversy. The argument will be that the punishment of Watson is not proportional to the punishment of those owners, especially in light of this key line from the Personal Conduct Policy: “Ownership and club or league management have traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline when violations of the Personal Conduct Policy occur.”
According to the source, the union’s defense of Deshaun Watson will take specific aim at the league’s handling of Commanders owner Daniel Snyder, Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones.
As to Snyder, the union will argue that his punishment in light of the findings and potential recommendations of attorney Beth Wilkinson was weak and not fully enforced. As to Kraft, the union will argue that Kraft received no punishment despite allegedly receiving a massage became a sexual encounter. (Although Kraft was charged with solicitation, the case was dismissed based on the fact that the video surveillance utilized by law enforcement violated the rights of the various persons who were secretly recorded.) As to Jones, the union will argue that the league failed to investigate the voyeurism scandal involving former Cowboys P.R. chief Rich Dalrymple, including but not limited to the key questions of what Jones knew, when he knew it, and whether he knew that Dalrymple was secretly recording multiple cheerleaders while they changed their clothes.
The union believes that these arguments will be more likely to find traction than in the past, given the adoption in 2020 of a new, independent process for assessing potential Personal Conduct Policy violations committed by players. With Commissioner Roger Goodell or his designee no longer presiding over the effort to evaluate the evidence and reach a decision, the Disciplinary Officer ( retired federal judge Sue L. Robinson) could decide to allow the union to fully explore the manner in which the league handled Snyder, Kraft, and Jones.
The union, for example, could get access to evidence from Wilkinson’s investigation, the league’s handling of the information, and the key question of what Wilkinson would have recommended, if the league had bothered to ask her for a recommendation. (As previously reported, she would have recommended that Snyder be forced to sell.) The union also could get access to internal communications regarding whether Kraft should be disciplined, and whether Jones and the Cowboys should be investigated.
This approach would be separate from defending Watson against any claim of wrongdoing. It would be based on whether, even if he violated the policy with a habit of arranging private massages and trying to make those massages become sexual encounters, any punishment of Watson must be justified by the punishment imposed on Snyder, the non-punishment imposed on Kraft, and the lack of even an investigation of Jones.
Whether and to what extent this defense will hold any real water — and will gather any real evidence — will depend on Judge Robinson, who was jointly hired by the league and the union. But if the league means what it says when it says that owners are held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline for violations of the Personal Conduct Policy, the manner in which Snyder, Kraft, and Jones were handled by the league becomes directly relevant to the manner in which Watson is handled, too.
But everybody else was speeding too doesn't work in court either. Hopefully if it comes to that they have something better than this planned as a defense.
I would agree w/that jay. I just was trying to debunk the line of thought that a couple of posters are saying he wanted out because he couldn't pick the coach. The situation was far more complicated than that.
You think the slant of your articles debunks the vast majority of articles out there on the topic and that only your slant can be right. hilarious. So if that wwre true, why is watson waited until the new GM amd HC were hired to demand a trade?
Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Texans hours after team names head coach
The Texans franchise quarterback has formally made his demand
It appears the Deshaun Watson era is over with the Houston Texans. The relationship has taken center stage this offseason and is fueled by Watson's angst toward owner Cal McNair and Jack Easterby, the tumult reaching fever pitch with the team reneged on promises to include him in helping to identify the team's next head coach -- with further gasoline having been poured on the fire by the hiring of Nick Caserio as general manager. What had not occurred yet, however, was a formal request (read: demand) by Watson to be traded, but the Texans have now reportedly received just that.
Watson has requested to be moved out of Houston, CBS Sports insider Jason La Canfora confirms, news that comes only hours after they named David Culley as the team's new head coach and work to build a new staff around him.
It appears the actual request isn't recent and has nothing to do with Culley, and Watson has continued to shun the Texans front office in their attempts to reach him to potentially open a dialogue into resolving things. That proves Watson is indeed looking to play hardball with the Texans, and to the point he's willing to waive his no-trade clause to make sure he never takes another snap for them in the future. Rumor has it Watson is already eyeing a handful of preferred destinations, with the New York Jets and Miami Dolphins topping his list. Both have the collateral to make a serious offer for Watson, and the Dolphins are currently also owners of several of the Texans 2021 draft picks by way of the Laremy Tunsil trade, but there would be a lot of moving pieces to any sort of trade deal getting done.
For one, Watson must not only approve of the destination -- thanks to the his no-trade clause -- but so must the Texans. And considering the two sides aren't in communication as of late, that will make it that much more difficult to get on the same page regarding what would ultimately be a blockbuster trade. The Texans must also approve of the compensation package, be it Sam Darnold and more or Tua Tagovailoa and more, or a list of other possible scenarios that could also involve teams not mentioned here.
It's feels like a foregone conclusion they would not simply going to give Watson away from peanuts like they did to all-world wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins during the Bill O'Brien era, a move that could be viewed as the genesis of Watson's frustration in Houston, and it's also unclear if they'd prefer to move Watson to the NFC and out of their conference altogether. Furthermore, there's no guarantee they trade him at all -- Caserio recently proclaiming Watson as "our quarterback" -- which could set off a series of seismic football events that potentially include a holdout of some sort. Watson wants to play in 2021 though, but not for the Texans, and he indirectly made it clear via Twitter in late December that the differences are irreconcilable.
"Big Bro told me when they painted you a picture, don't let them paint you another picture."
Yes, he demanded a trade in the very midst of the hiring of a new GM and HC, but of course according to you it must have been something else.
I guess the fact he signed a contract extension just in September of the same year also means nothing in your scenario? I mean if he felt the owner was so racist, why would he have signed a contract only a couple of months earlier? He must have had an epiphany. Sorry man, your baseless theory doesn't hold water. You can buy into believing anything you wish but that doesn't mean it's true. I mean if you so choose you could have believed this too...
Quote
Q: Did you find her attractive?
A: That wasn’t my intention, sir.
Q: I didn’t ask you what your intentions were.
A: I can’t answer that. I have a girlfriend, so that wasn’t my intention, sir.
Q: So you can’t answer that because you have a girlfriend?
A: Because that’s not what I was looking for.
Q: What did you want from her?
A: Just a massage.
....Until of course you find out later he actually did admit to having sex with three of them. I mean he wasn't looking at them with that intention but had sex with them anyway, right?
Here's another popular theory that was being bantered about. "McNair is trying to ruin watson's reputation!" Which I also said was foolish at the time. Why would a billionaire wish to undermine one of his greatest assets to only harm himself? Then we learn later that not only wasn't McNair trying to undermine watson, but the team actually provided him NDA for massage therapists to sign to keep them silent.
Yeah, he thought McNair was so racist that he signed a contract extension in September only to claim McNair was so racist he didn't want to play for the Texans a couple of months later? Even you can't really believe that.
But everybody else was speeding too doesn't work in court either. Hopefully if it comes to that they have something better than this planned as a defense.
Exactly so.
What the NFL has done with some of the owners is wrong. Kraft got off Scott free for doing (once) what Watson might be guilty of, or something similar leastways ..... With Synder I actually think they WANT to oust him but might need to be careful how they do it. But none of that negates or should deflect from any player being held accountable for their actions.
The NFLPA is bound to defend practically any and every player against having his livelihood revoked. That’s what union do. Of course they can defend vigorously or weakly. I’ll bet, if this continues on its current trajectory they won’t have much juice for a vigorous defense. And everyone knows the league is never going to hold owners to anything close to the same standard as everyone else. I mean, come on now, that would be unAmerican.
I have wondered if DW went to one of the glamour teams with the certain influential owners New England, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, New York Giants LA, Dallas, even Baltimore etc. would there be this much attention focused on it. Some attention but not this much I would wager.
Something to ponder, whether you want Watson to be punished or not. Remember the Browns and other teams hired private investigators and I'm sure his defense team did as well. The Browns and Watson's defense have said that more clarity once the facts come out. Don't be too surprised if they have some bombshells of their own.
Nick Caserio brushes off possibility of the Deshaun Watson trade being undone
Posted by Mike Florio on June 16, 2022, 4:23 PM EDT link
As the last three weeks have entailed a chain of negative developments for Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson, some have wondered whether, at some point, the Browns could undo the trade with the Texans.
Houston G.M. Nick Caserio, appearing Thursday on SportsRadio 610, was asked about the possibility of the Browns getting out of the trade, months after the fact.
“Any trade — forget about this particular one — any trade that takes place, so there’s a process that you have to go through,” Caserio said. “Teams agree on that and then once you agree on that, it gets submitted to the league. The transaction gets processed and it goes on file with the league. Unless there’s somebody that’s gonna go in there, you know, overnight in a mask and try to get on a computer, and may have a cyberattack like that, I’m not sure anything that can be done there.
“No different than a draft day trade. Even though it kind of happens more in real time. You have an agreement in place, OK, you contact the league. Or we have a trade, we have an agreement, send the paperwork along, and everybody goes on their merry way. Unless I’m missing something, or unless [you] call Goodell and ask him for interpretation and opinion, I would say that whatever trades have happened have happened in the past, and now we’re just focused on training camp and moving forward with the team.”
Caserio is right. Nothing can be done at this point. The trade happened. It’s over. It’s done. The Browns knew or should have known about the circumstances surrounding Watson. They assumed the risk that there will be more lawsuits. They assumed the risk that there will be more negative media coverage. They assumed the risk of one or more adverse verdicts against Watson. They assumed the risk of whatever the league may do with Watson under the Personal Conduct Policy.
It this goes off the rails for the Browns, they can’t blame the Texans. The Browns allowed themselves to get caught up in a four-team chase for Watson, and they apparently glossed over or underestimated the potential problems that still could emerge for the team and the player.
The remedy for the Browns isn’t to back out now. The remedy for the Browns was to back out then. Instead, after Watson removed them from the competition, they put together an offer he couldn’t refuse, and they won the race.
Although the Browns would never admit that they wish they hadn’t, the other three teams are surely glad that they did.
Yeah, I think most people believe this manufactured story about how the Texans' lack of responsibility could reverse this deal is nonsense. The Browns have said they've done thorough research and investigating on this issue. If this trade deal complete fails (I don't think it does in the long term) the Browns have no one to blame but themselves. Certainly, not the Texans.
This just seems like a story created just to further build on the Watson situation. We'll see.
Quote
Although the Browns would never admit that they wish they hadn’t, the other three teams are surely glad that they did.
I'm not sure this is true. It's just Florio's opinion. The finalists (not counting the several additional teams that inquired) were willing to trade for Watson considering the plethora of complaints that already existed before the more recent additions. I think this comment is just silly.
Your hero is once again taking a little bit of fact and manipulating it by interjecting his own slanted opinions on the situation to continue to bash the Browns.
There was never any chance of this getting reversed. None. It's a done deal.
For better or for worse, the Browns are now married to Deshaun Watson. Will he be the starting QB? Absolutely... eventually. This year? Probably at some point.
Your hero is once again taking a little bit of fact and manipulating it by interjecting his own slanted opinions on the situation to continue to bash the Browns.
dude, you whine and cry about people supposedly calling you names or calling you a liar, but then you take snipes like this by calling Florio his hero? THIS, THIS HERE, is why nobody really respects you and why you constantly catch so much flack. You CHOOSE IT and EARN IT.
Beyond that, just where is it bashing the Browns????
I would agree w/that jay. I just was trying to debunk the line of thought that a couple of posters are saying he wanted out because he couldn't pick the coach. The situation was far more complicated than that.
100% agree with you... I think Watson was upset before they named the GM.... but it wasn't because he didn't get to 'pick' the HC... there were a few different things I think he was upset about...
Right. He may have announced that he wanted a trade after the coach was named, but everyone and their mother knew it was coming from all of the previous crap that went down.
Oh really? I have had several posts on this very thread say Watson is my "hero" and "savior." Did you say anything to them? Like I said before............ban me if you wish, but save your BS for someone else.
There was never any chance of this getting reversed. None. It's a done deal.
For better or for worse, the Browns are now married to Deshaun Watson. Will he be the starting QB? Absolutely... eventually. This year? Probably at some point.
Oh really? I have had several posts on this very thread say Watson is my "hero" and "savior." Did you say anything to them? Like I said before............ban me if you wish, but save your BS for someone else.
vers...I just took a look at the posts in this thread and I didn't find one incident where anyone said Watson is your "hero" and "savior."
Maybe I missed something...if so, feel free to point out the posts in this thread where someone is saying Watson is your "hero" and "savior".
Right. He may have announced that he wanted a trade after the coach was named, but everyone and their mother knew it was coming from all of the previous crap that went down.
Pretty sure I read somewhere quite a while ago that DW was "forced" to play safety in either practice or training camp etc before the 2021 season started while the Texans figured out what to do with him. Don't remember the timeline specifically.
Yes arch. I apologize for dragging you into this. I just didn't feel like searching. I'm sorry. For what it's worth, I didn't give those monikers a second thought. Of all the insulting that go on here on a daily basis, words like "hero" and "savior" mean next to nothing. The other day, a poster called me a d..., you know, a human body part. The post was deleted, but the dude was posting the very next day. Saying "your hero" is NOTHING.
Oh really? I have had several posts on this very thread say Watson is my "hero" and "savior." Did you say anything to them? Like I said before............ban me if you wish, but save your BS for someone else.
For one, it's funny how you JUST complained about people calling your take BS and how you don't like it, lol Secondly, I haven't seen anyone saying that. Feel free to share a link to a post. Thirdly, are any of those people running the same double standard where they cry wolf about what others are saying and then turn around and do EXACTLY what they just complained about? Because this is the real issue I pointed out, not the part you focused on.
I'd love to ban you, but I don't handle any of the bans here (I took myself out of that pool over a decade ago) and you haven't done anything that earns it, anyway. Despite whatever contrived opinions you have of how I and this site operate, it don't work like that. You get what you earn here when it comes to bans, and that is 100% at the discretion of the other Refs. But, feel free to keep crying the martyr act.
p.s. Nobody PM'd me. You aren't that important, man. Sheesh!
As I said before, your bias is obvious and your decisions are unfair, but it's your sandbox. Have a nice night.
What? lol, you couldn't ask for a more fair guy IMO. We don't see eye to eye on everything at all, but Purp always treats me with respect, even when I don't always deserve it. What a croc of crap.
Jadeveon Clowney was going where Deshaun Watson went: Browns minicamp facebook twitter By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio --Jadeveon Clowney’s compass was easy to read this offseason: Wherever Deshaun Watson was headed, Clowney was going there too.
When Watson shocked the sports world and picked the Browns over three other suitors, the Browns essentially got Clowney in a package deal.
“I played well here last year,’’ Clowney said on the final day of mandatory minicamp at FirstEnergy Stadium. “I felt like I could get better. Just pick up from what I did last year. Plus, my boy came here, Deshaun.”
Clowney made no bones about it: Whereever his former Houston Texans teammate put his pin on the map, Clowney would too.
“I was all about where my boy Deshaun was going,’’ he said. “When I talked to [the Browns], I said, ‘I played with him, he kept us off the field a lot.’ I was like, ‘I know you’re going to keep us off the field, you put up a lot of points, put us in rushing situations instead of having to stop the run all the time.’ I just wanted to go play with him and see what I can do with him again.”
So if Watson had chosen the Falcons over the Browns, which was rumored at one point, Clowney would be a Georgia peach right now?
“I probably would have,’’ he said. “I probably would’ve followed him there. But who knows? He ended up here. We’re here now. That’s over with. Let’s go. We’re chasing it now.”
Clowney, the three-time Pro Bowler, kept in contact with Watson throughout the selection process, during which the Saints and Panthers were also hot on his trail. Playing with Watson in 2017-18, Clowney made the Pro Bowl both years and had two of his best career seasons, with a career-high 9.5 sacks in 2017 and a second-best nine in 2018, a sum that he matched last year.
Six games into his rookie season in 2017, Watson tore his ACL and missed the rest of the season. But in 2018, he earned the first of his three Pro Bowl berths by en route to an 11-5 record and a wild-card spot in the playoffs, where they lost to the Colts.
“I talked to him a few times before he signed, after he signed,” Clowney said. “We stayed in touch through that whole thing about coming here. If he come, then I come. I told him if he goes, I’ll follow him up here. I’ll go back. That’s what it came down to.”
Like everyone else, Clowney is waiting on the edge of his seat for the NFL to hand down Watson’s expected suspension, which could be anywhere from a handful of games to an indefinite ban.
“That’s all right,’’ Clowney said. “We’ve got a good defense, we can hold it together. We did good last year and we were banged up on offense all over the place and our defense played well for what we had going on. We’ve got the same defense back, couple additional pieces. We’re going to be all right.”
Despite his allegiance to Watson, Clowney wasn’t about to throw Baker Mayfield under the bus. While the stingy defense had to deal with a points-starved offense, Clowney doesn’t hold it against Mayfield.
“I ain’t going to get into that because my boy Baker, that’s my guy,” he said. “I like Baker, good person, great person. I’m just glad to be back here doing my thing.”
Clowney, 29, is part of Watson’s support system as he deals with the looming suspension and 24 pending civil suits against him by massage therapists alleging sexual misconduct during appointments.
“That’s a lot of pressure,’’ Clowney said. “I told him that’s a lot of pressure for what he’s dealing with, but for him to just handle the situation the way he’s doing, I think he’s doing a good job. He doesn’t say much. He comes in here and works every day, he doesn’t let it bother him mess up his job, to work. He’s dealing with it well. I hope he just keeps doing it, take care of what he’s doing. Hope the best for my quarterback.’’
With the civil suits piling up and national and local media coming down hard, Clowney doesn’t go there much with his good buddy.
“Naw, that’s his personal biz, I don’t get into that,” he said. “Only football. I think there’s enough out here in the world going on, I don’t even have to ask him what’s going on. They put it all out there, so I try not to ask him. I’m sure he don’t want to talk about it.”
Clowney texted linebacker Anthony Walker after Clowney signed his one-year deal worth up to $11 million and promised they’d get after it this season.
“I told him we were a couple pieces away last year, a couple plays away,” he said. “If I come back, I’m chasing it. Same thing I told Myles [Garrett], ‘We’ve got to chase that Super Bowl. I didn’t come here just to win eight, nine games, I want to chase the Super Bowl.’ And I think we’ve got a shot. Put it together this year and see where it goes.”
If Watson was the biggest draw for Clowney, Garrett was a close second. The two complemented each other well, with Garrett setting the club record with 16 sacks and Clowney notching nine. Now that they know each other, there could be more where that came from.
“Me and him did some good things together,” Clowney said. “We got along well. We played well together. We fed off each other. We felt like we come here and do the same thing. Even better. That was our first year and we know each other better. We got a good thing going from last year. We want to keep it going.”
What’s more, now Walker, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah and the others know how to fit with Clowney.
“The whole linebacker corps was new to me,’’ he said. “Everybody’s back. To have the guy behind you already know how he fill and what he likes to do, that makes it easy on myself. I can look back there and have to ask, because he already know what he’s going to do. That’s what makes it a lot better playing with the same guys instead of bouncing around and trying to figure out who guys are.”
Clowney, an elder statesmen on the team, got visits during his podium press conference from a few of his teammates.
“What are your goals this year,’’ running back D’Ernest Johnson asked.
“Make way more plays than I did last year,’’ he said. “Make more sacks. More TFLs. Just trying to get it going.”
Amari Cooper popped in next.
“You coming to my birthday party?’’ he asked, referring to the big soiree in Miami this weekend that a lot of his teammates are attending.
“Dang man, I want to,’’ Clowney said. “I have a camp Saturday, but I want to get down there. You just told me that yesterday. You put me on the spot.”
Like Walker, Clowney feels more of a family atmosphere this year.
“It’s pretty laid back, man,” he said. “I feel like we get along well, it’s a good group, very young team. Hell, I’m one of the oldest ones on here, it’s the weirdest thing. But it’s a young team and we have a lot of fun together. I have a lot of fun out here with these guys and that was my biggest part, I had a lot of fun last year.”
With young defensive linemen on board such as Perrion Winfrey and Alex Wright, Clowney says he and Garrett will lead by example.
“Just show ‘em how we’ve been doing it, how we work, how we do our thing out there during the week,’’ he said. “It all happens during the week. We do a lot of work during the week, we work during practice, we run around hard, we don’t take plays off. I think when they see how we work, they see the older guys doing it, they’re going to pick up off it, which they do pretty well now.”
Clowney is confident this team is better this year, especially if Watson plays.
“Of course,” he said. “We were good on defense last year. We picked up some new pieces on the offense and defense and I just feel like we’re a better team than we were last year.”
mac, what do you think about Clowney saying that it was all about where his boy Watson was going and how he might have even followed Watson to Atlanta had he gone there? Would you acknowledge that is a pretty strong endorsement coming from a man who actually knows Watson and was his teammate? Would you agree that he knows more about Watson than you, me, and guys like Florio? Do you think it would be wise to perhaps keep an open mind on Watson until all the facts come out about the case?
Hey Vers, about that ‘snitch’ comment. All I was doing was pouring out an observation someone else made, a Vikes fan I know who follows his team as close as we all follow ours.
For the record, I don’t want to fire our coach(es) or anyone in the front office. That’d be the last thing we need.
Divide intensifies in league office over handling of Deshaun Watson
Posted by Mike Florio on June 16, 2022, 7:13 PM EDT link
Even before recent developments gave the Deshaun Watson case a more ominous feel, some in the league office believed that Watson should not play until the pending litigation has ended. However, Commissioner Roger Goodell took the possibility of paid leave off the table in March.
Starting with the feature that debuted 23 days ago on HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, the situation has gotten worse for Watson, with two more lawsuits filed, two more expected, and possibly more to come. As one source with the dynamics of the situation explained it to PFT on Thursday, the league is very concerned about the drip, drip, drip of more cases being filed.
The new cases, the looming cases, and the possibility for even more cases, coupled with the HBO story and the recent article from Jenny Vrentas of the New York Times, have given more credibility to those in the league office who want Watson to be sidelined until the litigation has completely ended.
It’s unclear how this split will be resolved, and it will be difficult for the league to make a full and final decision regarding potential discipline without knowing how many cases will be filed. Through it all, the league has to balance the potential consequences of going too far with the possible fallout from not going far enough. And it was a failure to go far enough with Ray Rice in 2014 that nearly brought down the house.
Whatever the Commissioner does, he won’t put himself in position to be criticized again for going too easily on a player accused of misconduct against a woman. Or 26 women. And counting.
mac, what do you think about Clowney saying that it was all about where his boy Watson was going and how he might have even followed Watson to Atlanta had he gone there? Would you acknowledge that is a pretty strong endorsement coming from a man who actually knows Watson and was his teammate? Would you agree that he knows more about Watson than you, me, and guys like Florio? Do you think it would be wise to perhaps keep an open mind on Watson until all the facts come out about the case?
The money had nothing to do with Clowney signing with the Browns..?
Clowney and Watson were teammates in Texas and I can understand Clowney's comment about wanting to play with Watson again.
But Clowney's past experiences playing with Watson have nothing to do with Watson's off the field conduct/issues...two separate issues.
Yes, but this is supposed to be the Pure Football forum, so maybe it would be okay to discuss the football angle once in awhile? Instead, we get the daily Florio slanted opinion pieces that trash Watson and the Browns.
Divide intensifies in league office over handling of Deshaun Watson
Posted by Mike Florio on June 16, 2022, 7:13 PM EDT link
Even before recent developments gave the Deshaun Watson case a more ominous feel, some in the league office believed that Watson should not play until the pending litigation has ended. However, Commissioner Roger Goodell took the possibility of paid leave off the table in March.
Starting with the feature that debuted 23 days ago on HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, the situation has gotten worse for Watson, with two more lawsuits filed, two more expected, and possibly more to come. As one source with the dynamics of the situation explained it to PFT on Thursday, the league is very concerned about the drip, drip, drip of more cases being filed.
The new cases, the looming cases, and the possibility for even more cases, coupled with the HBO story and the recent article from Jenny Vrentas of the New York Times, have given more credibility to those in the league office who want Watson to be sidelined until the litigation has completely ended.
It’s unclear how this split will be resolved, and it will be difficult for the league to make a full and final decision regarding potential discipline without knowing how many cases will be filed. Through it all, the league has to balance the potential consequences of going too far with the possible fallout from not going far enough. And it was a failure to go far enough with Ray Rice in 2014 that nearly brought down the house.
Whatever the Commissioner does, he won’t put himself in position to be criticized again for going too easily on a player accused of misconduct against a woman. Or 26 women. And counting.
If only we could have know there was the possibility of further cases before this whole sordid affair finally wrapped up...
Hey mac, thanks for keeping these bad PR articles in front of us. Some people don't want to see them, but I think the DAILY damage being done to our team's reputation is VERY MUCH a pure football topic and more than newsworthy content. Some of us realize that this stuff is not going away anytime soon.
Yes, but this is supposed to be the Pure Football forum, so maybe it would be okay to discuss the football angle once in awhile? Instead, we get the daily Florio slanted opinion pieces that trash Watson and the Browns.
I agree that it's all up for discussion because it's all pure football.
I guess I am over the idea of speculating on whether the FO did or didn't do a thorough investigation. If they expected all this bad press across all the National and Sport media, the additional cases, the sordid details - then it seems almost as bad an indictment on them as if they didn't do a very thorough investigation. But I don't know - and at this point it doesn't change the outcome.
From a pure football perspective - what does impact the Browns is DW's availability to start and bring his elite skills to the QB of the team. That's another area of speculation or conjecture for everyone - but that does and will change the outcome of how we view this trade. Some of the questions I have:
- How does the NFL move forward without resolution to these cases - maybe with some sort of caveat that any suspension could be increased if DW is found guilty or if more evidence/cases emerge ?
- As others have said, the NFL really only cares about it's image, it's revenue and the optics. If they treat DW leniently, they face a potential back lash. They potentially face continued and worse PR if DW ever lost a case in Criminal court. Saying this is a giant mess for the NFL is an understatement. And that in turn makes it a nightmare for the Browns while we wait on the NFL to make a decision. This story is bigger than the Ray Rice story and the NFL botched that so badly you have to think they would rather face an extended fight with the NFLPA than look weak/stupid again. . . . . In essence, if the NFL are going to get this verdict/decision wrong - you can bet your bottom dollar they will err on the side of being too punitive.
- If DW does not settle - he faces a very realistic possibility of losing in the criminal case. And if we think of someone like OJ - no-one thinks to themselves "Hey he was innocent in a court of law, and it was only a civil case that found him guilty" .... every man, woman and child brands OJ guilty.
- If DW settles - some might insist this was a witch hunt, made worse by local media ... maybe even suggest Watson is 100% innocent. I would think at least as many Browns fans would assume DW had some culpability and guilt.
- My last thought or question regards how long this stink will linger. If it's a 10 game ban, will everyone have moved on by the start of next season and this will be a non-story? If it's a season long ban - this story will be front and center of slow news off season months as DW prepares to take the field. Will we hear about this for the next 2 NFL drafts when they talk about why CLE has no #1 draft picks? .... none of which is pure football - but as a fan of the team, it hurts to see the team you root for dragged through the mud.
I mentioned in another post - at some point, the trade for an elite QB comes at a price that is too steep - in addition to the picks, the $1/4B, the bad press and optics, the ban . . . . I haven't landed there yet, but I am close to the point where I will think this is a bad trade if DW is gone for an entire season or more and we have a lost year with Brissett at QB. The team is strong and built to compete. I think it would suck for everyone to sit and watch them play with their back up QB as the starter for an entire year.
What about others - at what point (or has it already been reached) will you feel this was bad business?
vers...you seem to be in denial that it's Watson's off the field conduct that is going to control whether he see the field as the Browns starting QB...why is that so hard for you to understand..?
Regardless of how good Watson looks practicing in shorts, T-shirt and a helmet in half-go practices, it will be 'the NFL' that controls Watson's future on the field, based on his OFF THE FIELD CONDUCT.
The information that continues to surface via each civil lawsuit that is filed could become a factor in the NFL's decision whether or not to suspend Watson and for how long. Again, it's Watson's off the field conduct that is directly linked to Watson's future as the Browns starting QB.
I am not in denial. It's just that you guys keep saying the same stuff over and over again. There was nothing new in today's article. However, every single one of you ignored the Clowney post even though that is about pure football. Whatever, the few rule the roost. Carry on.
I have to agree with you. I think it was Quincy Carrier that said it, at this point, since the NFL has let it drag out so long, the damage to DWs rep will be permanent and lasting without a miraculous intervention from some unknown to date facts coming to light. I think the stink might lessen over time, but he will forever be branded by this, even if he gets through all these cases relatively unscathed, the damage is done. Now we as Browns fans have to decide if that is acceptable to us to the degree that we will follow the guy. There is nobody saying he's not a damn good player, but a lot of fans don't care how good he is at this point.
It also brings to mind what happened with Josh Gordon. Phenomenal player, but couldn't get out of his own way. He basically lost his career because of POT. How can the NFL justify this type of behavior, with so many instances, and not issue an indefinite ban? I know Gordon was a repeat offender, but did he fail 26 drug tests? And who was his victim? I think people talking 4, 6, or 10 games are delusional, especially since it's the Browns and the league is pissed about the contract. I don't think we can base our expectations on previous actions taken by the NFL, because the me-too movement changed all that and no major business wants this kind of stigma on its PR balance sheet today. I fully expect them to give him paid leave until the cases are resolved, then hammer him after. I think a year-long suspension will be a starting point, with the worst-case scenario being a lifetime ban similar to the one Pete Rose got for gambling on games. Most likely, a one year with stipulations of counseling, accepting accountability, etc. After his paid leave and suspension, he may not play for two or three years in Cleveland. And at that point would be three or four years off the field. What a mess.
What about others - at what point (or has it already been reached) will you feel this was bad business?
I also won't try to pretend I know what "due diligence" meant. I have plenty of opinions of what Deshaun should do, what the league should do, what the Browns should do (or should have done)... but I have very little insight or control... and I still bleed the colors. There is so much space between best-case and worst-case that it is very hard to predict. And that, for me, makes it "bad business" from the beginning. Looking at it from the beginning of the "five-month saga", I quickly become Meatloaf: "I would do anything for love -- but I won't do that".
Unless he is criminally charged. He will not go to prison. Life will go on.
There is a team and DW will play. People can view him as they wish. Myself I am a Browns fan. I will want to win if the qb is DW, Brissett, Dobbs, or Baker.
At some point DW will play. If he serves a suspension will that count as justice and he paid his dues? Seems like people forgave Ben.
Kraft could have been involved with his actions in sex trafficking. Which is basically modern day slavery. Nothing happened to him. Two wrongs do not make a right. But. Then J Jones never did a thing about his "peeping Tom" employee. A guy caught oogling cheerleaders.
Once some time passes and the story is outside of the magnifying glass of the daily media. People move on. Hell look at politics.
I guess I am over the idea of speculating on whether the FO did or didn't do a thorough investigation. If they expected all this bad press across all the National and Sport media, the additional cases, the sordid details - then it seems almost as bad an indictment on them as if they didn't do a very thorough investigation. But I don't know - and at this point it doesn't change the outcome.
From a pure football perspective - what does impact the Browns is DW's availability to start and bring his elite skills to the QB of the team. That's another area of speculation or conjecture for everyone - but that does and will change the outcome of how we view this trade. Some of the questions I have:
- How does the NFL move forward without resolution to these cases - maybe with some sort of caveat that any suspension could be increased if DW is found guilty or if more evidence/cases emerge ?
- As others have said, the NFL really only cares about it's image, it's revenue and the optics. If they treat DW leniently, they face a potential back lash. They potentially face continued and worse PR if DW ever lost a case in Criminal court. Saying this is a giant mess for the NFL is an understatement. And that in turn makes it a nightmare for the Browns while we wait on the NFL to make a decision. This story is bigger than the Ray Rice story and the NFL botched that so badly you have to think they would rather face an extended fight with the NFLPA than look weak/stupid again. . . . . In essence, if the NFL are going to get this verdict/decision wrong - you can bet your bottom dollar they will err on the side of being too punitive.
- If DW does not settle - he faces a very realistic possibility of losing in the criminal case. And if we think of someone like OJ - no-one thinks to themselves "Hey he was innocent in a court of law, and it was only a civil case that found him guilty" .... every man, woman and child brands OJ guilty.
- If DW settles - some might insist this was a witch hunt, made worse by local media ... maybe even suggest Watson is 100% innocent. I would think at least as many Browns fans would assume DW had some culpability and guilt.
- My last thought or question regards how long this stink will linger. If it's a 10 game ban, will everyone have moved on by the start of next season and this will be a non-story? If it's a season long ban - this story will be front and center of slow news off season months as DW prepares to take the field. Will we hear about this for the next 2 NFL drafts when they talk about why CLE has no #1 draft picks? .... none of which is pure football - but as a fan of the team, it hurts to see the team you root for dragged through the mud.
I mentioned in another post - at some point, the trade for an elite QB comes at a price that is too steep - in addition to the picks, the $1/4B, the bad press and optics, the ban . . . . I haven't landed there yet, but I am close to the point where I will think this is a bad trade if DW is gone for an entire season or more and we have a lost year with Brissett at QB. The team is strong and built to compete. I think it would suck for everyone to sit and watch them play with their back up QB as the starter for an entire year.
What about others - at what point (or has it already been reached) will you feel this was bad business?
This is a very good and balanced view about the situation. Hats off mgh888!
Like Versatile Dog has pointed out that Berry, DePodesta and Stefanski is no uneducated mugs but still none of them had the courage or the moral compass to veto this train wreck of decision. I just can’t understand the thought process how they come to the conclusion that 22 civil law cases should suddenly disappear or magically just solve themselves. Ask any experienced lawyer and they will tell you that this is a process who easily can take several years before it’s totally over. Not to mention all the bad publicity.
That a big organization like the Browns has such total lack of understanding of how the media landscape works today is mind blowing.
Unless he is criminally charged. He will not go to prison. Life will go on.
There is a team and DW will play. People can view him as they wish. Myself I am a Browns fan. I will want to win if the qb is DW, Brissett, Dobbs, or Baker.
At some point DW will play. If he serves a suspension will that count as justice and he paid his dues? Seems like people forgave Ben.
Kraft could have been involved with his actions in sex trafficking. Which is basically modern day slavery. Nothing happened to him. Two wrongs do not make a right. But. Then J Jones never did a thing about his "peeping Tom" employee. A guy caught oogling cheerleaders.
Once some time passes and the story is outside of the magnifying glass of the daily media. People move on. Hell look at politics.
I didn't say he would go to jail. Jail is out unless it becomes criminal again in these cases somehow. I'm saying the punishment could be as severe as a lifetime (indefinite like Art Schlichter) ban, but I also said it was more likely he would be placed on paid leave and be suspended later. It's all speculation, but I don't think his suspension will be less than a year.
Art Schlichter was eventually reinstated after 13 games, then later confessed to gambling during his suspension and was released altogether. Who knows what DW will do as time passes if this is an addiction. Again, pure speculation, but 66 is definitely not normal.
I have to agree with you. I think it was Quincy Carrier that said it, at this point, since the NFL has let it drag out so long, the damage to DWs rep will be permanent and lasting without a miraculous intervention from some unknown to date facts coming to light. I think the stink might lessen over time, but he will forever be branded by this, even if he gets through all these cases relatively unscathed, the damage is done. Now we as Browns fans have to decide if that is acceptable to us to the degree that we will follow the guy. There is nobody saying he's not a damn good player, but a lot of fans don't care how good he is at this point.
Ben R. raped. Twice. He stationed his bodyguards at the entrance of the bathroom, if memory serves, so that he could rape. He got 6 games reduced down to 4, if memory serves. I also don't recall any sort of apology tour after that situation was resolved. Since then, we've come a long way (or maybe we haven't), and the landscape has certainly changed, but I don't think it's so much so that DW won't be able to recover from this. We still trot Jim Brown out there to wave to the fans and stuff, and nobody has pulled down the Ray Lewis statue. I think any talk of permanent damage is getting ahead of ourselves.
I'll also add that I'm speaking only about the national attention/attitude about this situation right now. I'm not trying to put words in your or anyone's mouth about how they should/will feel about this.
I get all of that oober. And I hope it goes just the way some of these guys think it will. I want to root for the team and not have this BS over our heads. I'm only saying, I think it will be worse than any 4, 6, or 10 games. And I base that on a lot of things the talking heads are saying and where we are as a nation regarding this kind of stuff. I will be shocked if the suspension is less than a year. And I don't think the NFL will let him play this year at all. That's where I think the paid leave will come in first because the NFL won't under-punish this like others in the past, IMO. What did they give Kareem Hunt? 8 games. That was not a good look at all and yet was nothing like the scale of what is alleged here.
It wasn't just the Browns organization that wanted Watson. And remember, there are a lot of things from the defense's arsenal that have not come out yet.
Jeez, I totally forgot about Ridley. It makes no sense, but that would be totally the MO of the NFL to give Watson less time for his issue than Ridley got for betting on a game.
I get all of that oober. And I hope it goes just the way some of these guys think it will. I want to root for the team and not have this BS over our heads.
Quoting the above in its own post because you and I appear to be in the same space on this. My skepticism has more to do with hope than anything else. If he's guilty of everything they say he is, I have a really hard decision to make.
And then beyond that, I'm actually ok if we ("we" being the NFL, its fans, etc) decide that we're setting a new bar for this type of stuff and effectively saying that the days where athletes can get away with anything are over... so long as the powers that be decide that's really what they want and all it entails. What I see as more likely is that the NFL decides they "have" to make a bunch of noise here and then do nothing the next time it happens because it's taking a big name off the field at an inopportune time.
It wasn't just the Browns organization that wanted Watson. And remember, there are a lot of things from the defense's arsenal that have not come out yet.
This is what’ going to happen, sooner or later. No way the NFL will let him play in season 2022 or maybe not even until he has solved all his law suits.
It wasn't just the Browns organization that wanted Watson. And remember, there are a lot of things from the defense's arsenal that have not come out yet.
Sure, they're just holding on to it for a rainy day in the middle of the current hurricane.
Yes, a grand total of three other teams bidding on him besides the Browns. We just "outstupided" the rest of them with an almost one quarter of a billion dollar, fully guaranteed contract.
I'm not sure how anyone considers that a positive thing.
I'm certainly not a lawyer and I don't know all the details of the case but, and it's just a thought, maybe DW should get together with his lawyer sit down with the defendants and try and work out some type of a solution to all this if it's still possible. JMO
Whatever they're holding onto would be... for the trial???
That's certainly a possibility if you think they're sitting there taking an onslaught by the press and NFL fans without making any serious attempt to do damage control. I mean they're certainly willing to speak to the press as we've seen of late. But I can't for the life of me believe that as more and more cases come out, as information comes out that you were having massage therapists sign DNA's, that you would keep all of this vital evidence some seem to claim they have all hidden away. Sure I could see them keeping some of it hidden for trial, but you have 24 cases to pick from and you're not using anything to try and defend your client?
And I know what the standard comeback will be from some and how this works. "Well watson and his lawyer are classy and those massage therapists and their lawyer are low life's!"
I'm certainly not a lawyer and I don't know all the details of the case but, and it's just a thought, maybe DW should get together with his lawyer sit down with the defendants and try and work out some type of a solution to all this if it's still possible. JMO
I think at one point that would have been his best path forward. I'm not sure what legal advice he was given or if he actually followed the legal advice he was given. But the problem here is that he's been very vocal about his innocence over and over again and continues to so in public and through the media. He continued to do so when these latest cases were filed just last week.
I'm sure we've all seen the standard statement attorney's give their clients. They all go pretty much like this... "On the advice of counsel I can not comment concerning the ongoing litigation". Then your lawyer or legal team becomes your spokesperson. It's much more rare that people in watson's situation speak out on such matters themselves.
At some point your own words sort of paint you into a corner. You have reached the point of no return. It's not your attorney's word or reputation on the line at that point, it's your own. Sort of like the old saying about how people keep digging the hole deeper. I'm not sure where that point comes. I'm also not sure at this point, as much as he's said he's innocent and how long he's proclaimed his innocence that if he settles with them now, he won't be throwing himself into the hole he's dug.
For example, in the Zeke case, text messages that the alleged victim had sent to her friend about blackmailing Zeke were discovered. It was also found out that she asked her friend to lie for her. I have tried to bring up that the defense and the teams that wanted to trade for Watson have their own Private Investigators. Both the defense and the Browns have addressed that they are confident of what will transpire once all the facts come out. Those facts are not going to come out now. The defense will present their evidence [provided they have any] at the trials.
Things could get dicey for the NFL if they try to suppress evidence in Watson's case like they did in the Elliot case. The precedence has been set and that is why I have suggested the defense go on the attack if the NFL wants to act unfairly. What is fair and unfair is beyond my scope of knowledge and that is why I have maintained that I am willing to wait until all the facts are presented before I condemn either side.
One of the key issues concerning the Browns will be if Watson is made to sit out until he gets all his cases taken care of. If Watson's lawyers go that route, the Browns might not have Watson playing until the 2023 season.
Many if not most cases are settled before they even go to trial..but if Watson wants all cases litigated, the Browns suffer the consequences.
Yeah, well this time there's 24 women. I guess they must all be lying according to some. And those investigators couldn't see into the future. They had no way of knowing more cases were coming and that the Texans had provided watson NDA's for these women to sign at massage sessions. Unless of course you think they could have seen into the future. I'm thinking not.
Let's face it, there were 22 known cases at the time. Here is how much time the Browns themselves say they investigated this.....
Browns spent five months looking into Deshaun Watson in process of pursuing him
*YAWN* Somebody please wake me up when a suspension is handed down. I'm sick of wasting my time watching others fight about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Who knows what will happen between now and April 2023? Not I. Nor you.
Exactly, no one knows, which is why the most logical short term outcome is either Commissioners Exempt list or an indefinite suspension pending legal outcome. That is really the only thing that saves the Shield from further scrutiny. Deshaun Watson didn't play in 2021 and it didn't hurt profitability for the league. The one thing that COULD hurt that profitability is to dismiss these issues with a defined suspension which cannot take future events into consideration. That is what happened with Ray Rice and the league vowed to never make that mistake again.
I didn't say he would go to jail. Jail is out unless it becomes criminal again in these cases somehow. I'm saying the punishment could be as severe as a lifetime (indefinite like Art Schlichter) ban, but I also said it was more likely he would be placed on paid leave and be suspended later. It's all speculation, but I don't think his suspension will be less than a year.
Art Schlichter was eventually reinstated after 13 games, then later confessed to gambling during his suspension and was released altogether. Who knows what DW will do as time passes if this is an addiction. Again, pure speculation, but 66 is definitely not normal.
There is no such thing as "normal." Or perhaps, his situation isn't "normal."
Just how definitive this information is, we can't be sure but it does seem that the Browns and Browns fans might be closer to knowing how the NFL might rule on the issue of suspension. Will the NFL try to get ahead of the Watson issue before Goodell testifies before Congress this coming week..? It might be a good decision, rather than waiting until after Goodell sits down before the House Committee on Oversight and Reform to answer questions on various subjects, that might include Watson's situation.
Report: NFL to “probably” seek a one-year suspension for Deshaun Watson
Posted by Mike Florio on June 17, 2022, 4:01 PM EDT link
When Major League Baseball suspended Trevor Bauer for two years due to allegations that, at their core, involve sexual consent and the violation of it, we asked whether this meant the NFL will suspend Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson for a full year. Reportedly, the league will try to impose something along those lines.
Mark Maske of the Washington Post reports that the NFL will argue that Watson should receive a “significant” suspension, and that the league “probably” will ask for a one-year banishment.
The Disciplinary Officer jointly hired and paid by the NFL and the NFL Players Association, retired federal judge Sue L. Robinson, would then determine whether she should impose a suspension of that magnitude, something less than that, or no suspension at all. If the end result is no discipline of any kind, the case ends. If any discipline is imposed, Commissioner Roger Goodell would have jurisdiction over an appeal by either or both sides. He could reduce it, or he could increase it.
Some think that the league will deliberately overshoot its preferred suspension, assuming that Judge Robinson will reduce whatever is imposed. Thus, if the league asks for a year, she could potentially cut it to eight or 10 games. If the ultimate goal is to have Watson suspended for a full year, the league may need to propose something more than that.
Per Maske, NFLPA outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler has become involved in the case. The league reportedly is concerned that Kessler will push for no discipline at all.
Maske confirms our report that, in defending Watson, the NFLPA will point to the punishments imposed (or not) on Commanders owner Daniel Snyder, Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones to support the argument that Watson’s punishment, if any, should reflect the consequences those owners received — especially since the Personal Conduct Policy warns that owners are held to a higher standard than players.
Maske adds that the league would like to have the situation fully resolved before training camp opens, but that the approach taken by Watson and the NFLPA could delay the outcome. Don’t blame Watson if that happens, NFL. You’ve had months to investigate the situation and to make a decision. When the time comes for Watson and the NFLPA to present a defense, it should take whatever amount of time it needs to take. And that should have been factored into the timing of the initiation of the process.
Per Maske, the league could impose discipline against Watson based on currently available information, with the understanding that further discipline could be imposed if new information surfaces. That could get tricky for the league. If, for example, he’s suspended eight games and proceeds to lose any, some, or all of the 24 (soon to be 26) lawsuits pending against him, the NFL surely wouldn’t be able to suspend him again simply because juries believe the testimony of the plaintiffs and impose verdicts against Watson. There would have to be something truly new — new claims, new evidence. Something that the league didn’t already know or that it shouldn’t have known, through reasonable investigative steps.
Although Maske’s story doesn’t mention paid leave, that remains a viable alternative. First, that process doesn’t involve Judge Robinson. Second, it defers a final decision until all litigation ends. Third, it gives Watson a clear incentive to settle the cases pending against him.
Whatever happens, the clock keeps ticking more and more loudly. Presumably, a decision is coming soon. It should happen be no later than Friday, July 1 — the one-year anniversary of the epic, four-day weekend bad-news dump regarding the Commanders, a woefully inadequate (and sloppily enforced) penalty against Snyder, and a blatant effort by the league to hide the specific facts that, if disclosed, quite possibly would have made it untenable for Snyder to continue owning the team.
I hear you. And just so everyone knows, I was not comparing the attorneys. I am simply saying that the there are a plethora of possible scenarios that the defense could present. We are not privy to that information and to say this or that will be the outcome is premature. If the cases get to trial, the defense will undoubtably have some ammunition that they have not yet revealed to the public.
Irish, I hear you on the Rice situation and it is a HUGE factor. No doubt. As is the public and media outrage if they don't punish Watson. On the other hand, the Zeke case, the cases w/the owners, the racial discrimination suit, etc also have to be considered. While it is a fact that the NFL has their policies in place, there is a lot of talk, especially in the black community, about how the NFL is riding a dangerous and steep slope in putting themselves in the position where they are the judge, jury, and executioner. This is especially true given their poor decisions and biased rulings in the past.
Whatever happens, the clock keeps ticking more and more loudly. Presumably, a decision is coming soon. It should happen be no later than Friday, July 1 — the one-year anniversary of the epic, four-day weekend bad-news dump regarding the Commanders, a woefully inadequate (and sloppily enforced) penalty against Snyder, and a blatant effort by the league to hide the specific facts that, if disclosed, quite possibly would have made it untenable for Snyder to continue owning the team.
What did the NFL do when they investigated Snyder and all the corruption and indecency w/in Washington's organization?
I'll tell you what................they made some of Grudin's emails public. The public was outraged because he "talked" about racism, sexual preferences, etc. He was a sacrificial lamb handed by the NFL on a silver platter for the media and public to stab w/their bloody forks while Snyder and his organization who actually was racist and committed secusal misconduct walked free.
Once again, Watson's defense team needs to be very aggressive if the NFL wants to play hardball.
I hear you, GM. I posted the Clowney news. No one responded. I have posted numerous football posts on Watson. They are ignored. It is what it is.
That's probably because the majority is either staying silent OR you are clearly in the minority supporting Watson at this point. Nobody is saying you're wrong, because you should be a fan your way. But maybe you should stop bashing others for not feeling like you feel about DW, or follow the people staying silent. This constant complaining that many don't feel the hype is BS on your part. That's all I have to say about that. Have a great weekend Vers, and keep up the good fight brother.
Whatever happens, the clock keeps ticking more and more loudly. Presumably, a decision is coming soon. It should happen be no later than Friday, July 1 — the one-year anniversary of the epic, four-day weekend bad-news dump regarding the Commanders, a woefully inadequate (and sloppily enforced) penalty against Snyder, and a blatant effort by the league to hide the specific facts that, if disclosed, quite possibly would have made it untenable for Snyder to continue owning the team.
What did the NFL do when they investigated Snyder and all the corruption and indecency w/in Washington's organization?
I'll tell you what................they made some of Grudin's emails public. The public was outraged because he "talked" about racism, sexual preferences, etc. He was a sacrificial lamb handed by the NFL on a silver platter for the media and public to stab w/their bloody forks while Snyder and his organization who actually was racist and committed secusal misconduct walked free.
Once again, Watson's defense team needs to be very aggressive if the NFL wants to play hardball.
As a NFL owner the Haslams family (and also GM Andrew Berry) has to be careful with making too much enemies inside the NFL community.
That’s why I think both the NFLPA and the Haslams probably are careful with publicly supporting Team Watson in a legal battle against 26 women who also seems to have the backing of the media and he majority of the public opinion.
What’s the best way forward for Deshaun Watson can easily come in conflict with what’s best for the Cleveland Browns.
Just read on PFT that the nfl is likely recommending a year. To be completely honest I think that would be a bargain and all parties should be happy with it. The way things are going I would’ve have expected something open ended and/or potentially considerably longer.
I don’t expect him and his legal team to start doing smart things out of the blue but he goes away for a year maybe they can either get serious about settlements or pull up the trial schedule… in order to get serious about settlements. Reality is this is and always was going to be a slew of settlements. No lawyer in their right mind would let a celeb athlete client perp walk in front of the cameras 26 times (and counting) no matter how slam dunk they think it is. And he said she said trails have every chance of going every kind of sideways. That might be the only way to make all this exponentially, hilariously worse. I mean, oh my god.
Anyway, my money is on a year. That’s manageable and it sates the blood thirst. And I actually wouldn’t be super surprised if Brissett lit it up. Funny things happen when basically all pressure and attention is removed.
I hear you, GM. I posted the Clowney news. No one responded. I have posted numerous football posts on Watson. They are ignored. It is what it is.
Bro, I've given a lot of thought to the Clowney comments. I'm convinced Watson must be an incredible teammate... much better than Baker could ever aspire to be. I'm sure a lot of other posters share my sentiments.
Whatever happens, the clock keeps ticking more and more loudly. Presumably, a decision is coming soon. It should happen be no later than Friday, July 1 — the one-year anniversary of the epic, four-day weekend bad-news dump regarding the Commanders, a woefully inadequate (and sloppily enforced) penalty against Snyder, and a blatant effort by the league to hide the specific facts that, if disclosed, quite possibly would have made it untenable for Snyder to continue owning the team.
What did the NFL do when they investigated Snyder and all the corruption and indecency w/in Washington's organization?
I'll tell you what................they made some of Grudin's emails public. The public was outraged because he "talked" about racism, sexual preferences, etc. He was a sacrificial lamb handed by the NFL on a silver platter for the media and public to stab w/their bloody forks while Snyder and his organization who actually was racist and committed secusal misconduct walked free.
Once again, Watson's defense team needs to be very aggressive if the NFL wants to play hardball.
As a NFL owner the Haslams family (and also GM Andrew Berry) has to be careful with making too much enemies inside the NFL community.
That’s why I think both the NFLPA and the Haslams probably are careful with publicly supporting Team Watson in a legal battle against 26 women who also seems to have the backing of the media and he majority of the public opinion.
What’s the best way forward for Deshaun Watson can easily come in conflict with what’s best for the Cleveland Browns.
When I say "Watson's team," I am talking about his attorneys. The Browns could--and should--stand by their player during the process that leads up to the conclusion of the actual trials.
And I wasn't whining as SB suggests. Just stating a fact. I have tried to interject some football conversation into these threads in the PFF and people are not responding. Not sure what is wrong w/me saying that??????
*YAWN* Somebody please wake me up when a suspension is handed down. I'm sick of wasting my time watching others fight about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Which is why nobody is forcing you to read it. I see the same thing on FB a lot. People say the story is a waste of space. That's it's not worth their time. That they're tired of hearing about it. To which I usually reply, "Yet here you are".
I hear you. And just so everyone knows, I was not comparing the attorneys. I am simply saying that the there are a plethora of possible scenarios that the defense could present.
So you were clearly talking about the victims attorney then just like I indicated you were. You're not very good at trying to hide your intentions.
I hear you, GM. I posted the Clowney news. No one responded. I have posted numerous football posts on Watson. They are ignored. It is what it is.
You obviously missed the title to the thread......
Will Watson be the Browns Starting QB...continued
This thread isn't about watson's play, other players or anything other than whether watson will be the starter at the beginning of the season. I know how it bothers you when you can't steer a thread or highjack a thread in the direction you want it to go. But you do have the option of starting a thread about the things you have mentioned which are totally unrelated to this topic.
I hear you, GM. I posted the Clowney news. No one responded. I have posted numerous football posts on Watson. They are ignored. It is what it is.
vers...I responded to your post...guess you missed it because you might not have gotten the response you wanted to hear.
Go back and look..!
As I said earlier, I responded to Vers' Clowney post but I guess it wasn't the type of response Vers was looking for...can't help that...
I even clicked on the link and read the entire Clowney article, finding this bit of information from Clowney...
Quote
Despite his allegiance to Watson, Clowney wasn’t about to throw Baker Mayfield under the bus. While the stingy defense had to deal with a points-starved offense, Clowney doesn’t hold it against Mayfield.
“I ain’t going to get into that because my boy Baker, that’s my guy,” he said. “I like Baker, good person, great person. I’m just glad to be back here doing my thing.”
vers probably won't like that Clowney comment either...oh well..!
You deride and chastise Mac for posting multiple, different news stories with mostly with different updates on Watson ... and here you are spamming the boards with the SAME story. smh
Guess who else can copy-paste from the other forum:
So you can just lie now, making up racial hate where it doesn't exist AND crimes that weren't committed, to merely twist the narrative to your NARROW widely-unsupported view because you want to back a very convincing example of a sexual predator? And you go so low as to say it's a white-black thing when the white guys are getting drug through the same type of mud as the black guy? Yet the mounting evidence is overwhelming against the one you support, and pretty much doesn't exist against the others that you disparaged. Well, that doesn't sound very reasonable, rational, logical, fair, or decent of YOU, does it? And Vers, get bent w/your hypocrisy. AND LIES.
Some guys defend DW so methodically hard that you have to ask yourself if maybe they had many massage therapists too. Hmm?
Like FrankZ said, "we aren't allowed to speculate?" (the way it read, not verbatim) Well, I say yes, speculate away! Why is one poster taking all others to task in defense of a guy now accused of sexual misconduct in 26 different cases? What part of off-field Watson motivates this poster to stand so hard against so many? Speculate away.
This is how your hate and lies affect me, and I'm compelled to call them out. Of course, you will call me names and have a fit, but you won't answer honestly in public; exactly why is defending DW this important to you?
So it has been reported that if it is more than 6-8 games ....the NFLPA is going to attack and attack hard. This is a HUGE problem for the NFL. Because the NFLPA "will" be using all the things I mentioned before in an attack on the NFL...The owners (Kraft, Jones, Snyder) and that is the NFL's worst nightmare because all of the information from those investigations are going to come out. The NFL is obsessed with keeping things within the protection of "the Shield". And the last thing they want is to be forced to give up any and all investigation information...This will tie in with Gruden's lawsuit as he was the only person punished in an investigation on another entity. I wouldn't be surprised if they also use a racial argument as well considering the Brian Flores situation....
I think Vers has a point that the Defense is holding tight...going public doesn't help them. The plaintiffs are the only ones that gain in the court of public opinion. That is why Buzbee is playing that card...and timing his additional suits and defendants at just the right time to when it can hit the hardest in the public arena...He will keep stringing things along to keep the story active and keep pressure on Watson and his team. He may be the biggest sleezeball in Texas...but he does know how to do his job.
So it has been reported that if it is more than 6-8 games ....the NFLPA is going to attack and attack hard. This is a HUGE problem for the NFL. Because the NFLPA "will" be using all the things I mentioned before in an attack on the NFL...The owners (Kraft, Jones, Snyder) and that is the NFL's worst nightmare because all of the information from those investigations are going to come out. The NFL is obsessed with keeping things within the protection of "the Shield". And the last thing they want is to be forced to give up any and all investigation information...This will tie in with Gruden's lawsuit as he was the only person punished in an investigation on another entity. I wouldn't be surprised if they also use a racial argument as well considering the Brian Flores situation....
I think Vers has a point that the Defense is holding tight...going public doesn't help them. The plaintiffs are the only ones that gain in the court of public opinion. That is why Buzbee is playing that card...and timing his additional suits and defendants at just the right time to when it can hit the hardest in the public arena...He will keep stringing things along to keep the story active and keep pressure on Watson and his team. He may be the biggest sleezeball in Texas...but he does know how to do his job.
One thing is for sure tho....
Things are about to get UGLY for the NFL.
You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
The NLFPA knows that they're on very thin ice if they start to involve NFL owners without any legal evidence and only pure speculation. It can fast get ugly in the opposite direction if the players (NLFPA) push the wrong buttons. Secondly, why battle against a lost case? The media and the public opinion will never tolerate anything less than a one year suspension and the big hurdle for the NFLPA is that there is no gain for their members if they lose the support of the general public. There're better fishes to fry than questioning 26 women and attacking mega rich owners who btw pays the players salaries.
I am only relaying what I have seen...The NFLPA is backing DW if this is an "unprecedented" suspension...and they are going to use the Owners clause of the Code of Conduct policy to do it.
Bite the hand that feeds you???? really?????..why do you think there is an NFLPA in the first place...to protect the players from what they consider unfair treatment...
The NFLPA isn't on thin ice at all and actually have the NFL by the short and curly's...because the NFL will have to disclose the information on their investigations with those owners...And the Owners are supposed to be held to a higher standard according to the Code of Conduct policy...
This has nothing to do with public opinion...in some ways it isn't about Watson....It is more to do with preventing possible railroading of future players. Because they have LONG felt that the Policy has not been enforced fairly.
I seriously doubt that all the noise the NFLPA is about to make, complaining about the NFL's double standard when they compare the conduct of the owners vs Watson's conduct...I doubt that strategy by the NFLPA does much to benefit Watson.
Honestly, it's like a 'welcome to the real world, moment'..! That double standard exists all around the world and it has for as long as I can remember. Attempting to validate Watson's behavior by attacking the conduct of the owners might be a winning argument in the court of 'public opinion', but I doubt that it does much to reduce Watson's punishment.
Watson's alleged conduct is unprecedented and I look for the NFL to play it safe by handing down a decision with some flexibility...a decision that can be adjusted according to the information that comes out in court. At this point, no one knows how many more criminal or civil cases might be filed, therefore IMO, the NFL will allow the evidence from the upcoming civil cases to be considered.
If Watson sees the football field as the Browns starting QB in 2022, I would consider that a victory of sorts.
Yeah Pete, the NFLPA and Watson's defense team need to go all-in on the discrepancy of how the NFL treats alleged misconduct of the owners and players. I have been saying that for awhile now. The more negative attention that the NFLPA and Watson's team draw towards the NFL's unfair and uneven treatment of the owners and the players, the better. I would demand full disclosure in all of these cases. Let's go public since Watson's case has been tried in the court of public opinion. What's fair for one is fair for all.
And regarding some of the above posts that deal w/board personalities rather than the topic at hand......I don't know, but it seems all the insults, name calling, and hostility on these threads is coming from one side and not the other.
Pete - the NFLPA should defend hard. That's their remit. Using Kraft or other guys caught in scandals might work. But for all the crying about court of law and innocent until proven guilty from people defending Watson - there are a lack of facts in those cases that would possibly paint a hard road for the NFLPA to categorically site them and use, and none of them went to civil trial, none had 26 cases pending against them. And personally I find it entirely illogical to defend Watson by insisting we discard the substantial amount of "Circumstantial" evidence and testimony - and then point to Kraft and Synder and rely on hearsay and circumstantial evidence to say -"well those guys are guilty and got off light".... Going on a fishing expedition in the hopes of finding dirt inside the NFL dealings with those owner cases? I doubt that's legal or ethical.
The problem with the DW situation - as you and others have just said, the allegations are unprecedented. There are facts known about the situation and communications, therapists crying, spa managers paid off "just because", the shear numbers of randoms used by a pro athlete. As you say - it is messy and will get messier. Snyder's toxic work environment I don't doubt. Kraft paying for happy endings I don't doubt. Beyond that idk - I didn't read up on either case substantially. Trying to equate it to what DW is accused of doesn't seem equal or applicable.
As for the defense holding tight? I don't know what they do or don't have. Rusty sure wasn't holding tight and as done a bunch of public defending including his claim that happy endings aren't necessarily illegal .... a comment I don't think did him any favors. I've said before - I can sure hope they have a get out of jail free card/play stashed away - I'd love for the QB of the Browns not to have any stink on him. But hoping doesn't mean probable.
The Browns might have allowed the Texas/Harris county legal process to over influence their decision to pursue Watson, thinking that the lack of a criminal indictment meant that Watson was innocent of all the charges. Reading the article below calls into question the Browns decision throw caution to the wind without considering the possibility that the rulings in Texas do not necessarily exonerate Watson.
Harris County district attorney: Lack of indictment by grand jury was not an exoneration of Deshaun Watson
Posted by Mike Florio on June 19, 2022, 9:15 AM EDT link
Some, including attorney Rusty Hardin, want people to believe that the decision of a pair of Texas grand juries to not indict Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson means that Watson has been exonerated. The top law-enforcement officer in Harris County, Texas disagrees.
At the end of a podcast interview of Kim Ogg, Mike Melster gave her the floor, so that she could say anything about the situation that she’d like to say. Here’s what Ogg said: “We respect our justice process. I love the law. It’s designed to get to the truth. That’s really what people want. I don’t think as a culture we can live with injustice. Remember, a grand jury no bill is not an exoneration. People, even when they clear the criminal justice system, often face accountability and repercussions in other parts of our legal system. And so I think to determine whether justice was done in this case you’re going to have to wait and see how it all comes out on the civil side of things and then through the NFL on the administrative side of things. And then people will determine whether that’s justice.”
That’s always been the case. But once the Harris County grand jury decided not to indict Watson on nine criminal complaints in March, and thanks in part to a tweet that naively linked the absence of an indictment with proof of innocence as part of the broader quid pro quo inherent to the world of breaking transactions five minutes before they are announced, teams launched their pursuit of Watson.
After a weekend of reports regarding this team and that team and some other team being interested in Watson, the Panthers, Falcons, Saints, and Browns officially entered the four-team race. The Browns, after being the first team out, decided to go all in with a five-year, $230 million, fully-guaranteed offer. It worked. The Browns got Watson.
Hooray for the Browns!
The exclamation point quickly became a question mark as reality crept back into the equation. Twenty-two civil lawsuits remained. An NFL investigation continued. The possibility of more lawsuits and more attention and more scrutiny and more people loudly wondering what the Browns were thinking became, within three months, reality.
Ogg’s comments underscore the fact that no one should have gotten swept up in the chase for Watson’s contract, not without a settlement of all existing lawsuits and a commitment by Watson to quickly resolve any other claims that may surface. Say what you will about Dolphins owner Stephen Ross (and we’ll admit we’ve sat plenty), but he had the right idea — all cases must be settled before a trade is made.
The Browns should have done the same thing. But with four teams falling all over themselves to get Watson, the Browns weren’t in a position to dictate terms. None of the four terms were.
Ogg’s comments also reinforce my belief that prosecutor Johna Stallings used the cover of the ridiculously secretive grand jury process to subtly (or otherwise) make it known to the grand jury that, as Ogg said, Watson didn’t have to be indicted to face “accountability and repercussions in other parts of our legal system.” Again, it would have been very difficult to convict Watson with proof beyond a reasonable doubt, especially since he has the money to hire a dream team of defense counsel who would have if-it-doesn’t-fit-you-must-acquit-ted their way to win after win after win in criminal court.
Ogg’s point is that Watson’s reckoning (if any) will happen elsewhere. In civil court and/or in the Court of Roger Goodell. And she’s right.
Hopefully, that will be the final word on this knee-jerk notion that the lack of an indictment means the existence of innocence, from Hardin or anyone else. No indictment most definitely does not mean absolute innocence, and the person ultimately responsible for the presentation of these cases to a grand jury in Houston has said so herself.
I want to once again bring up that I have not determined the guilt or innocence of Watson, Kraft, Jones, Irsay, Zeke, and Snyder. The number of allegations against Watson are alarming. The sheer magnitude of all the allegations against Snyder and his team are staggering. Kraft not being suspicious of sex trafficking in a sleazy parlor w/scantily-clad Asian women who could not speak English is hard to believe. Etc, etc. But, my argument isn't about the supposed guilt or innocence of each party.
Instead, it is about fair and equitable decisions made by the NFL. We have been told over and over that the NFL doesn't need a guilty verdict to punish a player. We have been told that they can do so if the league's image is tarnished. That has been--and continues to be--my focus. I wanted to post the entire document, but I doubt anyone would read it through its entirety and might skip it altogether given its length. Here are a couple of paragraphs at the beginning of the document.
Quote
It is a privilege to be part of the National Football League. Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business.
and
Expectations and Standards of Conduct It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. We are all held to a higher standard and must conduct ourselves in a way that is responsible, promotes the values of the NFL, and is lawful. Players convicted of a crime or subject to a disposition of a criminal proceeding (as defined in this Policy) are subject to discipline. But even if the conduct does not result in a criminal conviction, players found to have engaged in any of the following conduct will be subject to discipline.
While all of the cases of the individuals vary, one should surmise that all have brought “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. Thus, why should a cavernous divide in handing out discipline exist? That is extremely important to recognize and it is why I have been saying that Watson's defense teams need to vigorously pursue this strategic line of defense. They should demand full disclosure in all of the cases and also include the Flores discriminatory lawsuit. Let us see if the NFL wants to be put on trial for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the league.
I am only relaying what I have seen...The NFLPA is backing DW if this is an "unprecedented" suspension...and they are going to use the Owners clause of the Code of Conduct policy to do it.
Bite the hand that feeds you???? really?????..why do you think there is an NFLPA in the first place...to protect the players from what they consider unfair treatment...
The NFLPA isn't on thin ice at all and actually have the NFL by the short and curly's...because the NFL will have to disclose the information on their investigations with those owners...And the Owners are supposed to be held to a higher standard according to the Code of Conduct policy...
This has nothing to do with public opinion...in some ways it isn't about Watson....It is more to do with preventing possible railroading of future players. Because they have LONG felt that the Policy has not been enforced fairly.
Is a one year suspension a unfair treatment when you look at all the allegations in is full context? Honestly.
If he only got that punishment he should celebrate all the way to the bank. The clowns at the Browns rewarded him with a $230m contract, guaranteed money, and that’s before these cases has been presented in front of a jury. As it stands right now we have no idea of the outcome, it could even get way more serious with additional law suits and even new criminal charges.
A suspension until all cases are solved is by far the most fair direction to go for the NFL. Otherwise this can be a PR nightmare that can go on for years. I fully understand those inside the NFL who hold grudges against the Browns incompetent handling of this whole situation.
Secondly. This is a individual case and it should be judged on is own merits. Historically wrong punishments aren’t applicable when making appeal because when should the comparisons end? Go back one year, ten year or 50 years? It’s also almost impossible to compare one case to another when so many circumstances seems to be so different.
Like so many others has said. Whatever it take make a economical settlement with these women and move on.
When the league figures out they haven't gone after such transgressions in the past nearly enough, they should never correct it because their mistakes from the past will be used against them doing right moving forward. So abused women never get the justice they deserve from the league. Makes perfect sense. And then of course we should ignore this time it's 24, not 1. Maybe the next time someone robs 12 banks he should only be convicted of 1.
Quote It's not about "if he knew". It's about the results of his actions. His money went directly to a human trafficking ring.
And this?
Quote His money went to a human trafficking ring. He's a celebrity. So his name is out there. Poor Robert Kraft....
If you buy weed and it comes from a Mexican cartel, it's not your fault you're supporting a Mexican cartel. Cause you didn't know where it came from, right?
And guess who said this?
Quote I'll wait until more facts come out before I issue some huge moral judgement.
And this?
Quote I don't have all the facts yet and my opinion can change. But, right now, I don't think what Kraft did is a big deal. In fact, I think it's only a big deal because he is such a large public figure.
I do think the issue of trafficking is very serious and is a huge concern in our society. I put it well above illegal immigration on the list of the things we must fix. It's like the dirtiest underside of our global society. It doesn't get any worse than that, especially because minors are often involved. I applaud folks like Hue Jackson who donated time and money to combat the travesty that is human trafficking.
But, as of right now, I don't think Kraft knew that was going on. I think he wanted to get laid and to that...I say big deal. In fact, we had a conversation on here years ago as to why don't people w/money [we were talking about NFL players at the time] just pay for sex instead of risking picking up some strange and then risking that strange accusing them of rape and/or abuse? Most of us don't see a problem w/people wanting to have sex. If you have money, prostitution is probably safer when you want some strange.
Now, if Kraft was aware of the trafficking aspect of this and that is why he went to that place..............my position will change dramatically. Until then, I don't like all the sensationalism.
See for yourselves.
To add: Some are pretty consistent in their views and others swing depending on which way the wind blows.
Some guys defend DW so methodically hard that you have to ask yourself if maybe they had many massage therapists too. Hmm?
Like FrankZ said, "we aren't allowed to speculate?" (the way it read, not verbatim) Well, I say yes, speculate away! Why is one poster taking all others to task in defense of a guy now accused of sexual misconduct in 26 different cases? What part of off-field Watson motivates this poster to stand so hard against so many? Speculate away.
This is how your hate and lies affect me, and I'm compelled to call them out. Of course, you will call me names and have a fit, but you won't answer honestly in public; exactly why is defending DW this important to you?
Ummm, no. I never told anyone they could not speculate. I speak for my view. I do think Watson should not be punished until it is proven he actually did things that were wrong, sorry but I would expect that for anyone. People's lives get ruined over accusations that turn out to be false. Personally I will wait for this to play out before I start calling Watson a "predator" or anything else.
I am not making any judgments concerning the NFLPA. Again I am just relaying what I heard and saw...I am not saying it is good nor am I saying it is bad. it is simply...this is what is going to happen (based on reports) IF DW gets a long suspension...I am not saying a year is too long...I am not saying it is too short.
Heck the NFLPA defense was posted by Florio among others...why didn't mac post it (or did he...I sometimes have to skim past stuff)
Whether you agree with them doing it or not...whether you think they have a case or not....They are going to "vigorously" defend him IF the suspension is "unprecedented" as has been stated. It is just a statement...no opinion or judgement from me...(aside from the fact it is going to get ugly for the NFL)
I think that the Kraft issues and those of the other owners when it comes to determining Watson's punishment are absolutely relevant to this discussion. And I could care less if guys like 888, Fate, Pit, Lex, OCD don't want to hear alternative opinions. It's a message board and those guys can't dictate what others say no matter how hard they try.
I am not making any judgments concerning the NFLPA. Again I am just relaying what I heard and saw...I am not saying it is good nor am I saying it is bad. it is simply...this is what is going to happen (based on reports) IF DW gets a long suspension...I am not saying a year is too long...I am not saying it is too short.
Heck the NFLPA defense was posted by Florio among others...why didn't mac post it (or did he...I sometimes have to skim past stuff)
Whether you agree with them doing it or not...whether you think they have a case or not....They are going to "vigorously" defend him IF the suspension is "unprecedented" as has been stated. It is just a statement...no opinion or judgement from me...(aside from the fact it is going to get ugly for the NFL)
Being open minded is frowned upon by those who want Watson suspended.
I think that the Kraft issues and those of the other owners when it comes to determining Watson's punishment are absolutely relevant to this discussion. And I could care less if guys like 888, Fate, Pit, Lex, OCD don't want to hear alternative opinions. It's a message board and those guys can't dictate what others say no matter how hard they try.
Just please post it... over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Actually, it's you guys who keep posting it over and over again that he should be suspended and we all should agree. Btw.........thanks for the head's up on the Kraft thread. I kept seeing how you were looking at it and you never once posted a reply about it on the legal thread, so I became curious. Low and behold, you did not find what you were looking for, but I sure as hell did. Stuff it where the sun doesn't shine, Fate.
Things are about to get very personal again and I acknowledge my role in that. However, I do believe the information on Kraft, Jones, Snyder, Zeke, Irsay, Flores is relevant here. I think those cases are related to Watson's. No, they are not "equivalent." However, once again, it goes back to the personal conduct policy.
I will state once again that I am not assigning guilt to any of the above. Nor am I saying any of them are innocent and that includes Watson.
What I am saying is that if the NFL is relying on their Personal Conduct Policy, than they should be consistent w/their punishments. Some should not walk free because they are white owners and some should not be punished because they are black paid employees. The document reads that all should be included. I provided proof of that. It's their words, not mine.
Again, Watson's defense team should demand full disclosure of all these cases and take it to the courts. I guarantee you that the NFL doesn't want all that to come out. I am in direct conflict w/those who wish for Watson to be suspended. And I could care less if y'all like it or not.
Some guys defend DW so methodically hard that you have to ask yourself if maybe they had many massage therapists too. Hmm?
Like FrankZ said, "we aren't allowed to speculate?" (the way it read, not verbatim) Well, I say yes, speculate away! Why is one poster taking all others to task in defense of a guy now accused of sexual misconduct in 26 different cases? What part of off-field Watson motivates this poster to stand so hard against so many? Speculate away.
This is how your hate and lies affect me, and I'm compelled to call them out. Of course, you will call me names and have a fit, but you won't answer honestly in public; exactly why is defending DW this important to you?
Ummm, no. I never told anyone they could not speculate. I speak for my view. I do think Watson should not be punished until it is proven he actually did things that were wrong, sorry but I would expect that for anyone. People's lives get ruined over accusations that turn out to be false. Personally I will wait for this to play out before I start calling Watson a "predator" or anything else.
I have no issue with paid leave. But he shouldn't see the field until this is resolved. That would be rewarding him while he is under the self-inflicted cloud. NOPE. But he shouldn't have his livelihood taken until we know what's what. And every day it gets harder and harder to believe he is innocent.
[quote=Versatile Dog]I think that the Kraft issues and those of the other owners when it comes to determining Watson's punishment are absolutely relevant to this discussion. And I could care less if guys like 888, Fate, Pit, Lex, OCD don't want to hear alternative opinions. It's a message board and those guys can't dictate what others say no matter how hard they try.
Thats some extreme Confession through Projection. Shine on you Crazy Diamond.
I think that the Kraft issues and those of the other owners when it comes to determining Watson's punishment are absolutely relevant to this discussion. And I could care less if guys like 888, Fate, Pit, Lex, OCD don't want to hear alternative opinions. It's a message board and those guys can't dictate what others say no matter how hard they try.
I love hearing your opinions Vers, I just don't like the petty attacks when things aren't just how you think they should be. You cut that crap out and we will be fine, on my end. On 99% of topics, I like hearing your opinions. But you don't have to go so hard at guys just contributing to the convo man. That's all.
And I don't care if you take somebody to task for attacking you first, that's all fair. And you know I would damn sure return fire.
Things are about to get very personal again and I acknowledge my role in that. However, I do believe the information on Kraft, Jones, Snyder, Zeke, Irsay, Flores is relevant here. I think those cases are related to Watson's. No, they are not "equivalent." However, once again, it goes back to the personal conduct policy.
I will state once again that I am not assigning guilt to any of the above. Nor am I saying any of them are innocent and that includes Watson.
What I am saying is that if the NFL is relying on their Personal Conduct Policy, than they should be consistent w/their punishments. Some should not walk free because they are white owners and some should not be punished because they are black paid employees. The document reads that all should be included. I provided proof of that. It's their words, not mine.
Again, Watson's defense team should demand full disclosure of all these cases and take it to the courts. I guarantee you that the NFL doesn't want all that to come out. I am in direct conflict w/those who wish for Watson to be suspended. And I could care less if y'all like it or not.
Now, this is a fair and reasonable statement, and I concur. But in the opposite direction, the mishandling of those cases should not somehow let DW off the hook, especially if he is guilty. Paid leave is fair. I even think a suspension at this point is uncalled for if it's based on his actions because nothing is proven. Heck if this was 1 or 2 cases, we could just put them on the back burner until it played out. But at some point, the NFL and the NFLPA need to put the league first in protecting its rep and the greater good. Not to mention that allowing him to play, or even sign his new contract is tantamount to rewarding bad behavior in the eyes of his victims and those that sympathize with them. And I would feel terrible about this if there weren't SO MANY WOMEN. You can't just ignore that.
Actually, it's you guys who keep posting it over and over again that he should be suspended and we all should agree. Btw.........thanks for the head's up on the Kraft thread. I kept seeing how you were looking at it and you never once posted a reply about it on the legal thread, so I became curious. Low and behold, you did not find what you were looking for, but I sure as hell did. Stuff it where the sun doesn't shine, Fate.
You were stalking me looking at the Kraft thread from eons ago?!
I need a shower. You are WHACK.
And I did find what I was looking for, just didn't want to hurt your little feelings by posting it here, but since you want to spar for a bit...
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think he wanted to get laid and to that...I say big deal.
Says it all. Spin all you want. Kraft having sex with to women who were not human contraband, has nothing to do with sex trafficking -- and even less to do with Watson being a freaking pervert. And even waaay less to do with blacks, whites and racism. Funny how you can jump ship from everything you preach about (ad nauseam) and become a dichotomy of yourself, a contradiction with a megaphone, for some silly rant over what's fair and not fair.
Watson spent 1.5 years trying to bang every woman he can get his hands on, he did it from a position of power, behind closed doors, under the guise of "massage". He saw them throw him out, he watched them cry, he heard others tell him he better calm down before sh*t gets out of hand... he kept it up. Go ahead and take your "unfair public verdict" shaming and stick it in your ear. He is GUILTY as charged of being a privileged, cowardly, pig of a pervert... and any punishment he gets from the NFL is probably not equivalent to what any of us would get for 1/10 the offenses.
I think Watson gets suspended for a year... appeals... and it gets knocked down to 8-10 games... he has a couple games to get back into it before returning to Houston...
I think Watson gets suspended for a year... appeals... and it gets knocked down to 8-10 games... he has a couple games to get back into it before returning to Houston...
My guess was 8-10 games, as I understand it costs the Browns a contract year as well.
It's the unions job to protect the individual. That said, it's also their job to protect the member's image for which they represent. When you have peers openly question the high number of women involved (66 by last count by the NYTimes), it makes the NFL Players group as a whole look bad. Though I expect and believe that the NFLPA will "vigorously" defend Watson, I would be surprised if it went to the level of trying to compare it to other previous cases. To do that is to downplay the sheer number of civil claims which if they go south would be a very bad image for the union.
Though some may question an "unprecedented suspension" as to what is important when in reality, 24 civil suits and counting has entered an area of "unprecedented" that the league has ever seen. Does the NFL or the NFLPA really want to set the precedent that 24 plus civil claims is no more serious than single instance that had no criminal charges or civil suits?
The continued drip, drip, drip of more civil suits and still the possibility of criminal charges puts the NFL and the NFLPA in a situation neither wants to be in. Playing this wrong by either side will be a media nightmare the NFL and NFLPA has never seen before.
The moment when the media and the public opinion started to get involved in the length of the suspension was when the Browns rewarded Watson with a $230m contract, before then any punishment was mostly a internal question for the NFL.
It’s probably the case that the Browns made their own bed by structuring the contract the way they did with guaranteed money and only $1m in salary the first season. On top of that dynamite you have the comment from Watson’s lawyer that sexual activities after a massage session isn’t illegal and Watson’s square press conference where he sounded more or less unfazed of the severity of the allegations and why the media and the public opinion is upset. All this together make it difficult for the NFLPA to fairly argue why he shouldn’t have a lengthy suspension.
The numbers 26, 66 and 230 will probably be the decisive factors.
Some guys defend DW so methodically hard that you have to ask yourself if maybe they had many massage therapists too. Hmm?
Like FrankZ said, "we aren't allowed to speculate?" (the way it read, not verbatim) Well, I say yes, speculate away! Why is one poster taking all others to task in defense of a guy now accused of sexual misconduct in 26 different cases? What part of off-field Watson motivates this poster to stand so hard against so many? Speculate away.
This is how your hate and lies affect me, and I'm compelled to call them out. Of course, you will call me names and have a fit, but you won't answer honestly in public; exactly why is defending DW this important to you?
Ummm, no. I never told anyone they could not speculate. I speak for my view. I do think Watson should not be punished until it is proven he actually did things that were wrong, sorry but I would expect that for anyone. People's lives get ruined over accusations that turn out to be false. Personally I will wait for this to play out before I start calling Watson a "predator" or anything else.
I have no issue with paid leave. But he shouldn't see the field until this is resolved. That would be rewarding him while he is under the self-inflicted cloud. NOPE. But he shouldn't have his livelihood taken until we know what's what. And every day it gets harder and harder to believe he is innocent.
Thats goofy. If you are good enough to be paid, you are good enough to work. Why should a business be penalized by having to pay a person while they sit at home trying to sort out some infraction they may have committed? I don't care if it is a football player or Joe the pipefitter down at the plant. I can see maybe a few days, but anything over a week is bogus. I can see if a business elects to do so.
After what's felt like an interminable 15 months of legal tussles, social media fireworks, and various strategic steps and missteps from attorneys and Deshaun Watson himself, we are getting indicators that this Watson's legal saga, from an NFL punishment perspective, may be reaching a conclusion.
According to Mark Maske of the Washington Post, the NFL, upon conclusion of its investigation, is going to argue that Watson receive a "significant" suspension for the lewd acts that he is accused of by 24 civil lawsuit plaintiffs in what was supposed to be a professional massage setting. In fact, one source from Watson's side said they are expecting the NFL to recommend a full season suspension.
Make no mistake, this determination by the league, if it does turn into a full season suspension for 2022, puts this trade firmly into "disaster" territory for the Browns, and makes Nick Caserio's entire process in moving Watson one of the most shining examples of patience and shrewdness in NFL GM history. More on this a minute.
For those who don't know how punishment is doled out in the NFL, there is a fairly new process that was agreed to between players and owners in the latest collective bargaining agreement in March 2020. Whereas prior to the latest CBA, commissioner Roger Goodell was judge, jury, and executioner, now it's a more neutral process.
The NFL, led by investigator Lisa Friel, does its investigative work. In this case, it literally took months and months because of the sheer volume of accusers. From there, once the investigation has concluded, Friel and her team turn over their findings and recommendation for punishment to a third party mediator by the name of Sue L. Robinson, a former U.S. district judge who is jointly appointed by the league and the NFL Players Association under the conduct policy.
Once Robinson issues her decision, that's where Goodell could come into play. If there is no punishment for Watson, then there can be no appeal from either side. The case is closed. However, if there is a punishment — and in Watson's case, it would be the shock of the century if there weren't — then either side can appeal, and Goodell can add to or subtract from the punishment as he sees fit. So Goodell still matters, but it is a more neutral process.
So let's peek ahead here, and play this thing out. If it IS a one year suspension for Watson, why is that and what does it all mean? Why does a one year suspension make sense? Well, I am going to preface this by saying that, regardless of the punishment, the one thing we will all never know is exactly how compelling the NFL's interviews were with the accusers and with Watson himself. If the suspension is for a full season, though, I think it's a pretty good indicator that alleged victims like Ashley Solis were just as convincing in private NFL interviews as Solis was on HBO's Real Sports. Beyond that, if Watson does get hit with a full season, it will be interesting to see if there is any reaction that a one year suspension is too LIGHT, given the fact that MLB hit Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer, accused of some pretty nasty stuff by multiple women, with a TWO season suspension, which for all intents and purposes, is a career ender for him. That's actually a good segue into this next question...
What does a one year suspension mean for Watson and the Browns? In a purely 2022 window, it means the obvious — the Browns are going to be a much worse football team in 2022 than they thought they would be when they consummated this deal for Watson. They go from being a likely double digit win team to maybe a 5 or 6 win team with Jacoby Brissett at quarterback. Beyond this season, though, a one season suspension would be disastrous in the big picture for the Browns in two ways. First, they've already paid most of Watson's 2022 income, $45 million to be exact, in the form of a signing bonus. That money is now mostly spread out over the next four seasons on their salary cap, and Watson's cap hit is an astronomical $55 million from 2023 through 2026. Furthermore, the last time Watson played in a real NFL game was January 3, 2021. If he comes back to start in Week 1 of the 2023 season, that will be 980 days in between starts. 980 DAYS! That is not optimal, especially when I think there are major questions as to how he recovers psychologically from being so despised around the league. More on that in a moment.
What does a one year suspension mean for the Houston Texans? OK, now for the good news, and that news is for YOU, Texan fans! If Watson is suspended for a full season as those close to him believe could happen, then the 2023 first round pick that the team received in the deal has a really good chance of being a top 10 pick. If we believe that the Browns, with Brissett as their starter, are a six win team, then know this — the Bears were 6-11 in 2021 and received the seventh pick in the draft. (Actually, they traded that pick to the Giants, but you get my point.) So that pick, along with the Texans' pick of their own, which should be a top five pick, has them sitting pretty to do whatever they want in the 2023 draft. Again, Nick Caserio crushed this whole transaction. Kudos, Nick!
Does Deshaun Watson ever recover, from an image standpoint, from this? After watching Michael Vick emerge from two years in prison for some of the horrific stuff he did, I won't rule out any NFL comeback anymore. NFL fans (including me) are fickle people, who are heavily swayed by good play on the field. I guess the difference between Vick and Watson is that Vick never said he didn't do the things he was convicted for. Watson is essentially calling 24 accusers (and likely more coming) liars. If the NFL rules that he's done for a full season, then that's pretty damning. The NFL's investigative process is not a court of law, but it does sway public opinion. Watson seems to be trying like crazy to mitigate damage, mentioning "community" every chance he gets on the rare occasions he's spoken publicly, but it's not working. Not outside Cleveland, at least.
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No, I wasn't stalking you. I check the Who's Online from time to time to see if anyone is responding to a certain thread. I saw the Kraft thread after your name and I wasn't familiar w/it. So, I clicked on it. That's not "whack." But, name calling is fun when it's not you.
And no, posting what you just did does not hurt my feelings. I have been consistent in that I don't think having sex is a bad thing.
I think he wanted to get laid and to that...I say big deal.
Kraft having sex with to women who were not human contraband, has nothing to do with sex trafficking -- and even less to do with Watson being a freaking pervert. And even waaay less to do with blacks, whites and racism.
he did it from a position of power, behind closed doors, under the guise of "massage". He saw them throw him out, he watched them cry, he heard others tell him he better calm down before sh*t gets out of hand... he kept it up.
Funny - the response is "I don't think having sex is a bad thing" .... No mention of the fake equivalence and deflection (some would call it a lie) of trying to frame the Kraft Case about sex trafficking.
No mention of the fake debate that a pro athlete who has spent his entire life entitled and pampered from H.S to Clemson to the NFL and who has just been handed the largest guarantee in NFL history and trying to make this a race issue.
No mention of the non-consensual evidence and testimony.
Thirty-three players have been suspended by the NFL over the last 15 years, including Sheldon Richardson for speeding. I wonder how many owners have been suspended? Looking at the NFL Personal Conduct Policy, it includes: "Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business."
I don't trust the NFL to handle these situations fairly. I, and others, especially in the black community believe that there is a lack of equity in how the NFL doles out punishment. Some of us believe that the NFL should not be in a position to act in legal matters. We believe this because while the NFL has included the above statement into their Personal Conduct Policy, their decisions have been grossly one-sided in how they treat personal conduct issues for owners vs players.
Once again, Watson's defense teams should push for full disclosure in all these cases. Insist that all the details of these cases, including Snyder's, be made public knowledge and allow the public to decide how much "confidence" we have in the NFL's decision makers.
Here are some comments from Stephen A Smith that I agree with:
Quote
“It's not just about embarrassment. Molly, it is very dangerous for a professional sports league to act as if the law enforcement, to act as if they're the judicial system. It's very dangerous. Because now, whatever decision you make, you're implying, you know, stuff we don't know. And that's not to say that that's false, because obviously you have people investigating the matter. And you may know stuff that we don't know. But the point is that people will want to know what you know. And that's not the job of the National Football League."
Quote
"The job of the National Football League is to say this, this is our league, you impugn the integrity, and the shield, we have a right to act. And our decision is based on that alone, to do anything else resembles actions of law enforcement, which they are not qualified, nor do they have a right to do."
Quote
"Because at the end of the day, if you're the show, if you are Deshaun Watson or these women, and you and the NFL does anything against one side or the other, you have a right to zero in on the NFL and say who the hell do you think you are?”
Thats some extreme Confession through Projection. Shine on you Crazy Diamond.
Your third mental health reference used as a weapon.
Imagine how high that would be if I pointed out in every post where the duck quacks like one. If you can't control your own behavior and you decided to use my name than that issue is yours to cope with. Enjoy!
Bad News, on the moral high ground it looks like DW is going to get away with this with minimal repercussions.
Good News, looks like DW is going to come away with a minimal suspension if any.
NFLPA is going to fight hard for him...no pun intended. DW has not committed a crime so the NFLPA is going to come at the NFL on any penalties levied on him.
Bad News, on the moral high ground it looks like DW is going to get away with this with minimal repercussions.
Good News, looks like DW is going to come away with a minimal suspension if any.
NFLPA is going to fight hard for him...no pun intended. DW has not committed a crime so the NFLPA is going to come at the NFL on any penalties levied on him.
Jmho from reading some stuff...lol
If Watson and the Browns walk away unscathed they will have both been very lucky. The FO did a horrible job with this whole thing and there should be some repercussions, however it looks like they got lucky!
Lamp someone here once posted that the one thing pro athletes will not tolerate is messin with his money. Think about this. If our management gives baker away for basically nothing and we start a qb this entire season who is significantly inferior to baker what does that do to our chances of making the playoffs and making a postseason run? I think most of our roster would be fine with baker at qb. If coach did not like baker asking why our rookie rt was left on an island with a great pass rusher opposite him, resulting in multiple sacks, oh well he needs to get over it.
What if you are a more experienced player toward the end of your career. do you want to throw away a potential playoff chance because someone does not like something baker said in the past? Not likely.
If deshaun was playing baker would have to go. If he is suspended we are a better team with baker at qb than with jacoby. That is not in question. Our leadership and baker’s agent need to pull this together and give us a chance at making this a good season. Remember Baker, you will get a super bowl ring too!!
So Team Watson (and supposedly NFLPA’s) new defense strategy is to attack wealthy white NFL owners to show injustice in the legal system between a black $230m NFL player and a white billionaire owning a NFL team.
The poor black man will only be rewarded with a $44m compensation by doing absolutely nothing compared to the old retired billionaire who also probably earn a [censored] load of money doing almost nothing. I’m 100% sure that every ordinary American NFL viewer can relate to that injustice.
They somehow think it's better to make it a black thing than a woman thing. Over half of our nations population are women. Yet somehow they think this is a sound strategy. The women are the victims here but they are trying their best to take all of the focus in another direction. Are you really surprised by that?
Again...I don't think the NFLPA's actions are about "getting Watson off" (oooooooh...bad choice of words....) lets add the words "the hook"....that's better.....I think they are just going to use this as a springboard for attacking their real agenda......which is the double standard and inequalities of the enforcement of the Conduct Policy. Watson is just the match....the policy enforcement is the fire...JMO
But the strength of this for the NFLPA is how guarded the NFL is concerning the details of any investigations or workings of these decisions. They do these things to jump ahead of the issues to try and control the information. And they are fanatical about not letting any of this information out. But if this becomes a legal matter...which the NFLPA wants to force...all of this information is going to come out.
Now I don't agree that we let the public decide how the NFL is handling these cases as information coms out...(Well that isn't 100% correct....outside of deciding with their money by buying tickets and merchandise....Same with Watson...no one forcing you to cheer for him or buy his Jersey) But rather let the legal processes take their courses...
It's the obligation and duty of every union to stand behind the people they represent. They'll go to any length to do so. I'm not saying that as if it's a bad thing. Just pointing out that's the very reason people have unions. To fight for them from both a financial standpoint and against any type of punishment from their employers.
Interesting article and I believe Maske may be on to something.
"Although Maske’s story doesn’t mention paid leave, that remains a viable alternative. First, that process doesn’t involve Judge Robinson. Second, it defers a final decision until all litigation ends. Third, it gives Watson a clear incentive to settle the cases pending against him."
1) Trying to determine an appropriate suspension without knowing the totality of the number of suits and/or convictions in the civil trials or still potential criminal charges to be levied is a crap shoot at best. Making a determination later to add suspension time or worst yet discovering that too much suspension was levied would be very bad for all concerned.
2) It takes the decision-making process out of the hands of Judge Robinson who more than likely does not have all the information available since it's an on-going investigation.
3) It takes Watson off the field but doesn't penalize him financially. It also gives Watson paid time off to prepare for his cases.
4) Delaying a final decision on an appropriate suspension until all the litigation ends eliminates the gray area that is hovering over this situation. In addition, it would make the penalty for any Watson convictions to be something of substance. Since Watson's legal team requested to delay the litigation until 2023, allowing Watson to play is rewarding his refusal to address the issues confronting him in a timely fashion. The Browns and Watson agreed to a contract that was clearly structured to protect his earnings from a 2022 suspension. The NFL putting Watson on paid leave where he gets paid the measly amount that Watson and the Browns clearly used to avoid financial penalties in 2022 and use the ultimate findings to suspend Watson in 2023 and beyond where he is held financially accountable for his actions would be more appropriate. I think the Browns FO intentionally tried to bamboozle the NFL with the contract structure and the NFL knows it.
5) 26 or more settlements may be an incentive for Watson but there will still be some type of penalty phase. What that will be is yet to be determined.
So Team Watson (and supposedly NFLPA’s) new defense strategy is to attack wealthy white NFL owners to show injustice in the legal system between a black $230m NFL player and a white billionaire owning a NFL team.
The poor black man will only be rewarded with a $44m compensation by doing absolutely nothing compared to the old retired billionaire who also probably earn a [censored] load of money doing almost nothing. I’m 100% sure that every ordinary American NFL viewer can relate to that injustice.
That is an incorrect assessment of what the defense strategy is all about. It's not about the "legal system." The legal system has not convicted Watson of anything.
The strategy is to reveal that the NFL has not treated the owners and players on equal footing when doling out punishments in Personal Conduct cases. Perhaps you and others are so desperate to see Watson punished that you are blind to the fact that there is a wildly disturbing disparity on how personal conduct issues are handled by the NFL depending upon whether the accused is a player or an owner.
The strategy is to reveal that the NFL has not treated the owners and players on equal footing when doling out punishments in Personal Conduct cases.
Yeah, the infractions are all the same. lol
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Perhaps you and others are so desperate to see Watson punished
At least you used the qualifier "perhaps" on it this time rather than state is a fact which up until now has been telling a lie
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that you are blind to the fact that there is a wildly disturbing disparity on how personal conduct issues are handled by the NFL depending upon whether the accused is a player or an owner.
Or perhaps you can't seem to see this is different with far more accusers and a pattern we haven't seen in these other cases. Or maybe you are making the argument that since the NFL recognizes they haven't been nearly as harsh as they should be when it comes to the abuse of women, they can't possibly correct that now because it involves a player.
I mean if we're making up "perhaps" scenarios we may as well cover all the bases here.
I mentioned how I feel about the situation on a previous post. That being said, if I were the FO, coaches, etc. I would plan for the worst; a 2022 season without DW playing. Start giving JB as much coaching and reps as possible. We'll need him to learn as much as he can and play as well as he can.
Bad News, on the moral high ground it looks like DW is going to get away with this with minimal repercussions.
Good News, looks like DW is going to come away with a minimal suspension if any.
NFLPA is going to fight hard for him...no pun intended. DW has not committed a crime so the NFLPA is going to come at the NFL on any penalties levied on him.
Jmho from reading some stuff...lol
If Watson and the Browns walk away unscathed they will have both been very lucky. The FO did a horrible job with this whole thing and there should be some repercussions, however it looks like they got lucky!
The following article is from an attorney. What he is saying is possible good news in regards to Watson playing this season, especially given the latest news that the NFLPA has provided in behalf of Watson's defense. The NFL better be careful.
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Deshaun Watson, the Grand Jury System, and why the NFL should let him play football until there is an indictment, a trial verdict, a civil settlement, or he admits he did something wrong
The Deshaun Watson case continues to circulate through the news in and outside of the sports world. Watson, the former Houston, Texan quarterback, is now the assumed starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. The Browns, despite twenty-two (22) civil lawsuits against Watson, agreed to pay him a record breaking $230 million guarantee contract. The original twenty-two (22) lawsuits have grown to twenty-six (26) lawsuits, all alleging that Watson contacted massage therapist for their services, and at some point in time, coerced them to engage in inappropriate sexual conduct. The incidents allegedly occurred between March 2020 and March 2021.
Tony Buzbee, who is employed on a contingency fee, is representing all the women against Watson. At this point Watson has declined to settle any of the matters and two Texas Grand Juries declined to indict Watson on criminal charges related to these incidents. The NFL, correctly, hasn’t taken any action against him because, at this point, the only proof that something occurred is the victim’s statements and video interviewed, where Buzbee, who has contingent financial interest, likely prepared them for hours.
What to know about the Grand Jury System – What system does Pennsylvania and New Jersey use in criminal cases?
This case has raised many questions regarding Texas’ Grand Jury system, the burden of proof before a grand jury, and its procedures. Texas, like New Jersey, maintains a grand jury system. The role of a Grand Jury is to listen to the facts of the case and determine if probably cause exists for the charges alleged against the Defendant. Pennsylvania, unlike New Jersey and Texas, doesn’t employ this type of system. Criminal charges in the Commonwealth are initially brought before a District Magistrate or Municipal Court Judge (Philadelphia) to make a similar finding at the preliminary hearing.
What is the grand jury’s procedure and what is the prosecutor’s role before a grand jury?
In Texas, a Grand Jury is composed of twelve (12) persons who must be citizens of the county where the grand jury sits. In addition, grand jurors must satisfy the ability to write, read and have no disqualifying criminal convictions. The Texas grand jury must have at least nine (9) grand jurors to indict a case. Failure to achieve non-votes will result in a “No Bill”, which is what occurred in the Watson case.
During grand jury proceeding, prosecutors are permitted to recite the relevant facts to the grand jury so that they can decide if probable cause exists to indict. Prosecutors however may also present documents with testimony from witnesses, including the accused. Defense lawyers along with Judges are not present in the Grand Jury room. In Texas, only the following are permitted, grand jurors, the Prosecutor, witness, a stenographer, and bailiff.
While the accused may be called as a witness before the grand jury, he or she can invoke his/her right against self-incrimination (5th Amendment). All grand jury proceedings are secret, and Prosecutors are only permitted to share information obtained from a grand jury with another grand jury, law enforcement agency or another Prosecutor when they need their assistance with the case.
Grand jurors are allowed to ask questions of the Prosecutor and can request production of other evidence if they think they need it. Grand juries are not trials and Prosecutors are under no obligation to present any evidence which would be exculpate the accused or in some way prove innocence.
Watson faced two (2) grand juries and neither found that sufficient probable cause existed for the charges against him despite reviewing police reports and hearing testimony from witnesses. Watson, apparently invoked his 5th Amendment right during civil depositions, which occurred on the same day as the first grand jury convened. He allegedly answered questions, however, under oath, after the second grand jury declined to indict him.
Why can’t the NFL make a decision on this case?
At this point, the NFL has not any taken action against Watson despite an alleged detailed investigation. Further, Watson is not on paid leave (Commissioner’s Exempt List) despite the allegations.
The NFL’s personal conduct policy states that players, coaches, and team administration must refrain “from conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the NFL”. The policy goes on to say that conduct by anyone in the league that is illegal, violent, dangerous, or irresponsible, damages the reputation of others in the game and undercuts public respect and support for the NFL.
Players convicted of a crime or subject to a disposition of a criminal proceeding (alternative to conviction program) are subject to discipline. Even if conduct however doesn’t result in a criminal conviction, a player found to have engaged in any conduct which undermines the integrity of the NFL is subject to discipline.
Why should the NFL let Deshaun Watson play?
With that said, the NFL is in a very tough position as the grand Juries in Texas failed to find that probable cause existed to indict Watson. The evidence standard at a grand jury is much lower than what Prosecutors would need to convict him at trial. It is very similar to a civil standard and at this point Watson has yet to settle any of the cases against him. He and his attorney, Rusty Hardin, appear ready to take all matters to trial and only reportedly offered settlements to the alleged victims.
While the NFL policy seems clear that Watson’s alleged behavior, if true, violated league policy, there is no evidence other than the victims’ statements. Unlike other NFL players, such as Ray Rice (2014-suspended indefinitely for domestic violence caught on video); Adrian Peterson (2014-six (6) games-reckless assault of a minor); Greg Hardy (2015-four (4) games – assault and terroristic threats); Ezekiel Elliott (six (6) games – no criminal charges).
The Watson case may actually go to trial. There are no admissions from him, no physical evidence, but only alleged victim’s statements. It may be difficult for the NFL to take any action against him. If the NFL were to act, purely based on allegations and police reports, with as far as we know no real corroborating evidence (videos, recording, an indictment, civil verdict), the league is setting an extremely bad precedent! While I have not reviewed the NFL’s personal conduct policy at length, it would seem extremely unfair if a player could be discipline without some type of admission or finding of guilt. This would open the doors to possible player extortion in the future. Alleged victims could make allegation and players would face discipline even if the only proof was their statements and interview for which they were no doubt prepared for by attorneys who have a financial contingency interest.
Despite critics, the NFL should hold off taking any action against Watson until this matter is resolved. Waiting respects the victims and Watson’s rights. Premature punishment could not accurately reflect what actually occurred through an admission or what a judge or jury found occurred.
Why root or for a team that's about to spend 249 million dollars on 2 quarterbacks, that's real close to a Quarter of a Billion Dollars on 2 quarterbacks who won't take a snap in September or October of the NFL season, IF EVERYONE IS HEALTHY! AND WE HAVE TO WATCH JACOBY FREAKING BRISSETT?
Oh my Gosh they have their Act together in a way, SO unprecedented. " Loyd?? A Tad!!! A Tad!!, You drove almost a 6th of the way, across the country, in the Wrong Direction! "
" Well Excuse me Mr. PERFECT!!" You have an NFL Franchise, and you don't even have a quarterback. *****!!! Dishone Kizer????? Again??? !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my gosh. No! They'd have a better chance with Josh Cribbs, or 2012 Josh Cribbs starting the whole game at QB, than any team is going to be afraid of Jacoby Brissett. If We have to watch 1 game of Jacoby Brissett, and everyone is healthy, NO! Tune me OUT, air packer games, Air freaking packer games in Columbus Ohio, just to protest, I'm sick of this 30 years of being DUMPED ON! edit: gimme a minute!
Texas DA who faced Deshaun Watson: ‘Wait and see’ whether justice is served By Ryan Dunleavy June 19, 2022 12:46pm
Deshaun Watson was not indicted. He also was not exonerated.
That’s what Harris County (Texas) District Attorney Kim Ogg wants everyone to remember about the gray area surrounding Watson as civil lawsuits accusing the Cleveland Browns quarterback of sexual misconduct continue to mount. A Harris County grand jury did not indict Watson — the former Houston Texans star — on nine criminal complaints in March, and that verdict cleared a path for his trade to the Browns.
In a legal context, failing to meet the burden of proof is not the same as declaring innocence, however. Appearing on “The Mike Meltser Podcast” dedicated to sports law, Ogg wrapped up the interview by saying, “We respect our justice process. I love the law. It’s designed to get to the truth. That’s really what people want. I don’t think as a culture we can live with injustice. Remember,a grand jury no bill is not an exoneration. People, even when they clear the criminal justice system, often face accountability and repercussions in other parts of our legal system.” Watson still faces 24 civil lawsuits from his former massage therapists and likely punishment from the NFL.
“I think to determine whether justice was done in this case you’re going to have to wait and see how it all comes out on the civil side of things and then through the NFL on the administrative side of things,” Ogg said. “And then people will determine whether that’s justice.
I don't envy the people that have to make decisions on a person's guilt or innocence. I am sure the GJ made a wise decision to not indict based on the evidence presented. The thing that some are overlooking is he could still be indicted if additional evidence surfaces. Being a Browns fan is not for the weak
Bad News, on the moral high ground it looks like DW is going to get away with this with minimal repercussions.
Good News, looks like DW is going to come away with a minimal suspension if any.
NFLPA is going to fight hard for him...no pun intended. DW has not committed a crime so the NFLPA is going to come at the NFL on any penalties levied on him.
Jmho from reading some stuff...lol
If Watson and the Browns walk away unscathed they will have both been very lucky. The FO did a horrible job with this whole thing and there should be some repercussions, however it looks like they got lucky!
Did I miss a decision by the NFL?
No just ASSumptions
We are in the dead zone - I claim that writer's right of ASSuming what is going to happen. After all hasn't that we have been doing all along. One year? 6 games? we can of course ASSume there will be a suspension of some degree now the game is calling the correct number. Care to play?
The first bit of good news Browns fans have gotten since this entire mess showed up in Cleveland. Maybe, just maybe Watson might see the field for the Browns...we can hope..!
Tony Buzbee: 20 of the 24 cases against Deshaun Watson have settled
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 21, 2022, 11:59 AM EDT link
Most of the women suing Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson have agreed to a settlement.
Tony Buzbee, the attorney representing 24 female massage therapists who say Watson engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct during their sessions, announced today that 20 of his clients have settled.
“Today I announce that all cases against Deshaun Watson, with the exception of four, have settled,” Buzbee said in a statement. “We are working through the paperwork related to those settlements. Once we have done so, those particular cases will be dismissed. The terms and amounts of the settlements are confidential. We won’t comment further on the settlements or those cases.”
Settling the cases is a significant step for Watson as he attempts to resume his NFL career, but it in no way means he won’t be suspended by the NFL. What’s beneficial for Watson is that the terms of the settlements will be confidential, making it more likely that Watson can stem the flow of negative information that has done significant damage to his reputation.
But until all 24 cases are settled, Watson remains in jeopardy. And Buzbee indicated that the first plaintiff, Ashley Solis, and three other plaintiffs are continuing to move forward.
“Ashley Solis is one of the heroes of this story. Her case has not settled and thus her story and that of the other three brave women will continue. I look forward to trying these cases in due course, consistent with other docket obligations and the court’s schedule,” Buzbee said.
The NFL’s investigation of potential violations of the league’s personal conduct policy is ongoing.
Sounds consistent with a report I talked about earlier about a offer was made and all but 4 wanted to settle, but the Watson camp made it a all or nothing deal.
Looks like the Watson camp decided getting the window dressing out of the way was the way to go to concentrate on the meat and potato's.
peen...the fact that Goodell is scheduled to answer questions before the House Committee on Oversight and Reform 'tomorrow' might have helped to push the matter a bit. Goodell can excuse any questions concerning Watson's situation by simply stating the present situation won't allow him to comment on the matter.
Now maybe we can stop charade and move on in a positive direction...I hope.!
It is human nature to forgive as long as those involved simply admit that they need to do some soul searching in an effort to become a better person. It does not have to be an admission of guilt..just the acknowledgement of the desire to be a better man.
Freakin’ finally! I guarantee the settlements are WAY more expensive than they would have been a few months ago but at least someone is Watson’s camp got thru to him that this was inevitable and the price was only going up. That they’re confidential tells me that they are probably obscene numbers. As it probably should be. Just eat it and move on.
It doesn’t sound like the main plaintiff is one of the settlers but she’ll probably come around at some point. The same reality for Deshaun is true for her, a trial is a dice roll.
This was literally the only thing he could do to positively effect the potential length of the suspension. This takes a lot of pressure off the league. Good chance it’s not “open ended” now.
If I were on Watson's defense team or one of the attorneys for the NFLPA, I would be pushing hard for ZERO games, but I might be willing to accept 4 games just to appease the masses. Anything more, I'd go all in on suing the NFL for unfair practices in regards to how they handle the Personal Conduct Policy that is actually quite clear and specific.
The league has to consider public sentiment. This not being an actual criminal legal issue meant the court of public opinion is the biggest factor by far. I think if they come back with 4 games it’s going to look very bad, like the league is very out of step with wider world and not pro woman. I think they still have to placate that. I would still not be surprised by a year. But I feel like there’s a possibility of less. Less than 8 would really surprise me.
I get the public sentiment thing. It's been a topic for quite some time. However, things will get beyond nasty for the NFL if the NFLPA's legal team and Watson's team take the NFL to court and demand "full disclosure" of how they have investigated and handed out punishment when it comes to the owners vs the players.
I guarantee you that the "public sentiment" will be far, far worse in the long run if the truth comes out about just how corrupt the NFL has been for decades. You are a smart guy and you are a fair poster. I have no problem w/your positions on this because you are being fair. Try this if you have time. Google "nfl and unfair treatment of players versus owners" and you will see quite the long list. There is a history of this being the case and again, the NFL isn't going to want this be at the forefront of the story lines. Once again, the Personal Conduct policy is essential to this case. It's quite clear.
If I were on Watson's defense team or one of the attorneys for the NFLPA, I would be pushing hard for ZERO games, but I might be willing to accept 4 games just to appease the masses. Anything more, I'd go all in on suing the NFL for unfair practices in regards to how they handle the Personal Conduct Policy that is actually quite clear and specific.
You have been wrong almost every time you had an opinion and this time is not by any means different. When will you ever learn?
"Demanding full disclosure" and getting it would be two different things. I would suspect that a judge would reply that he/she is aware of perceived improprieties, will keep it in mind, but the case will be judged on it's own merits. jmo
I don’t read it that way. I doubt the nflpa would ever get their hands on actual investigation materials in any case. They’ll rightfully fight on the discrepancy in judgements against owners vs everyone else. But from where I’m sitting, the potential of an unjust wrist slap verdict story playing out in USA Today and the NYTimes and the nightly news and what it says about the league’s regard for women is way worse than the “inside baseball” verdict discrepancy story playing out mostly in sports media. That story would generate a small fraction of the”NFL doesn’t care about women and sexual abuse” story imo. I guess we just wait and see. I don’t think the net result is going to be subtle or nuanced, we’ll know who’s prediction was right.
I do want to clarify something. I don't believe that the case would ever reach the courts should the NFLPA's and Watson's attorneys use that as a defense strategy. I think it would be more the threat of opening up unwanted attention and the examining of just how biased and unfair the NFL has been over the decades. Again, there is a long list of issues.
NFL on Deshaun Watson: Today’s development has no impact on disciplinary process
Posted by Mike Florio on June 21, 2022, 1:57 PM EDT link
Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson has settled with 20 of the 24 massage therapists who had sued him. It has no affect on his status with the NFL.
While that goes without saying, the league said it anyway.
“Today’s development has no impact on the collectively bargained disciplinary process,” NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Watson’s potential punishment under the Personal Conduct Policy exists independently of the outcome of the 24 cases. The behavior itself — setting up private massages reportedly with at least 66 women through social media and having some of them become sexual encounters — could justify discipline even if he would have won every single lawsuit.
That said, slashing the pending cases from 24 to four likely prevents paid leave from returning to the NFL’s radar screen. Especially if Watson’s next step is (as it should be) to get the remaining cases settled.
The question then becomes the extent of the suspension the league will propose. PFT reported last week that the NFL Players Association anticipates an “unprecedented” punishment. The Washington Post thereafter reported it will “probably” be a full season.
NFL on Deshaun Watson: Today’s development has no impact on disciplinary process
Posted by Mike Florio on June 21, 2022, 1:57 PM EDT link
Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson has settled with 20 of the 24 massage therapists who had sued him. It has no affect on his status with the NFL.
While th“Today’s development has no impact on the collectively bargained disciplinary process,” NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Watson’s potential punishment under the Personal Conduct Policy exists independently of the outcome of the 24 cases. The behavior itself — setting up private massages reportedly with at least 66 women through social media and having some of them become sexual encounters — could justify discipline even if he would have won every single lawsuit.
That said, slashing the pending cases from 24 to four likely prevents paid leave from returning to the NFL’s radar screen. Especially if Watson’s next step is (as it should be) to get the remaining cases settled.
The question then becomes the extent of the suspension the league will propose. PFT reported last week that the NFL Players Association anticipates an “unprecedented” punishment. The Washington Post thereafter reported it will “probably” be a full season.at goes without saying, the league said it anyway.
Finally, some progress for the Browns in the Deshaun Watson case – Terry Pluto
Updated: Jun. 21, 2022, 1:33 p.m. | Published: Jun. 21, 2022, 12:44 p.m. AWAITS NFL RULING Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson has settled most of the civil lawsuits against him. Joshua Gunter, cleveland.com
facebook twitter 305 shares By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Now, the Browns wait for the NFL to rule in the Deshaun Watson case.
And with most of the civil lawsuits by massage therapists settled by Watson and his lawyers, one big problem should no longer be a possibility.
That would have been placing the QB on paid leave for the entire 2022 season, then awaiting how the courts would rule in the 24 lawsuits facing Watson.
Yes, that could have led to a suspension for part or all of 2023.
Now it’s likely that whatever the NFL does, it will be held to the 2022 season. Then Watson should be able to play in 2023, unless the league comes up with a stunning multiyear suspension.
There are still four lawsuits pending. But now that 20 have settled, that should set up the financial parameters to work out a deal taking care of those civil suits.
For the Browns, this has to be a relief. It would appear the worst-case scenario is over. Also, the nightmarish public relations battle over Watson’s conduct should be calmed down.
It is worth mentioning that Watson’s insistence on how he wanted to “clear my name” and didn’t plan to settle the lawsuits was nothing more than posturing. He had offered to settle a number of the suits a year ago.
So none of this was really about clearing his name. It was about making a deal – for both sides.
There will be people who say, “The civil suits are settled. There are no criminal charges. Let’s play ball.”
But most of the players suspended by the NFL weren’t criminally charged. That includes Kareem Hunt (eight games for a physical altercation with a woman) and Myles Garrett (six games for hitting Mason Rudolph in the head with a helmet during a game).
Tom Brady was suspended four games for deflating footballs. Receiver Calvin Ridley is suspended for all of 2022 for betting on football games.
No criminal charges in any of these examples.
NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said Watson settling 20 cases “has no impact on the collectively bargained disciplinary process.’’
It’s hard to guess what the NFL will do. There are reports about Watson facing a severe penalty. And reports of the players union fighting hard to defend him, citing the improper conduct of some owners and the light penalties they received.
The league also must look into the actions of the Houston Texans, who reportedly supplied Watson with hotel rooms and Non-Disclosure Agreements to be given to the therapists when they met with Watson.
This is an ugly case on several fronts, not just Watson’s actions.
But for now, the NFL should be able to come up with a decision regarding Watson’s possible suspension. And that should happen soon.
For the Browns, Watson and the NFL, that should be good news. All sides need clarity in terms of what comes next.
The Washington Post thereafter reported it will “probably” be a full season.
I never thought it would be a full season from the start. Still don't. If the NFL comes out with that, it will because they know it will be negotiated down and they need to start high.
Exactly. Which means the length of his suspension will not be impacted by the settlements either way. That's not what Pluto claimed. But you claimed that Pluto's article and opinion was more objective than a statement put out by the NFL. It's not that reading is hard. It seems to be the issue lies with comprehension.
J/C. With this Watson issue coming to a close sooner than later, can anyone tell me if him sitting all last year factors in at all? I didn’t read all 6 pages of the thread to see if somebody else covered that. I am thinking it has to be looked at a little. For him to miss even 8 games plus last year seems quite a lot considering there have been no criminal charges. I totally understand the severity of everything but I just don’t know how the discipline will be factored in with last year also.
The nfl saying it has no impact, yea, I don’t know. The reality is settling 20 of the cases definitely takes considerable pressure off the league to go nuclear. I would venture that it maybe takes the prospect of a multi-year or truly open ended judgement off the table. Obviously there’s still 4 pending and reports of another 2 still, correct? Any any of the other 66 could enter the fray at anytime so it’s not like all pressure and risk was removed. But at least pressure is being released from the story rather than added.
J/C. With this Watson issue coming to a close sooner than later, can anyone tell me if him sitting all last year factors in at all? I didn’t read all 6 pages of the thread to see if somebody else covered that. I am thinking it has to be looked at a little. For him to miss even 8 games plus last year seems quite a lot considering there have been no criminal charges. I totally understand the severity of everything but I just don’t know how the discipline will be factored in with last year also.
Do you mean in the sense of 'time served'? If so, I've thought about that too. Just not sure it will make a difference.
Personally, I think it should but I doubt it. If it did and he was still getting paid in 2021, I think any possible suspension now would come with an additional hefty fine as well. And him sitting out in 2021 is also why I don't think he will serve a one-year suspension in 2022 as well.
One has to wonder. If they make a determination now, how will the outcome of the other cases work out? Would they then ignore future evidence and outcomes, maybe even more cases brought forth afterwords? Or would they be addressed with further punishment at a future date?
One has to wonder. If they make a determination now, how will the outcome of the other cases work out? Would they then ignore future evidence and outcomes, maybe even more cases brought forth afterwords? Or would they be addressed with further punishment at a future date?
I don't know. I think the other 4 will be settled soon.
I think we are down to the 4 best cases against Watson. Now it just depends on how much money they want because that is what civil suits are all about. It's now at a realistic number where you can offer up some real "go away" money. That or stick to your guns and fight it out. There is still a real good chance Watson would win.
One has to wonder. If they make a determination now, how will the outcome of the other cases work out? Would they then ignore future evidence and outcomes, maybe even more cases brought forth afterwords? Or would they be addressed with further punishment at a future date?
If I was his lawyer I’d have to think that if someone entered the fray late, weeks or months after the thing got going, those wouldn’t likely be strong cases. It’s the initial litigants, the ones that get the whole ball rolling that usually have the juice and the evidence, the ones that went to the cops or otherwise reported it to others immediately. The ones that come later rarely have much. The biggest thing this group had was momentum. I’d bet they got (and probably rightfully so) very high payouts. You jump in now or weeks/months from now, there’s no momentum and the prospect of things dragging out after the press and cameras have left hurts the litigant more than Deshaun.
Again - just speculation - but the payment is essentially hush money to silence the noise in the media. I don't know that they will individually get different settlements based on when they signed on. jmo.
And the initial accusers might have the strongest cases and be the ones to not have settled. There is also a reasonable possibility that instead of $$$ - one or more of these women might want to see their wrong righted in public via a trial.
The Washington Post thereafter reported it will “probably” be a full season.
I never thought it would be a full season from the start. Still don't. If the NFL comes out with that, it will because they know it will be negotiated down and they need to start high.
We'll see.
This is my opinion too. A lot of over-dramatic assumptions and speculation from the start without bottom-line facts or a conclusion.
Speculation yes. Assumption no. It's all anyone has been able to do. Whether you think the ban might end up being 6 - 8 - 10 games or a year. It's speculation.
Based on the other conduct bans we have seen - I have always said I expected a 10 games minimum. I won't discount a year but settling all but 4 cases is a help.
Speculation yes. Assumption no. It's all anyone has been able to do. Whether you think the ban might end up being 6 - 8 - 10 games or a year. It's speculation.
Based on the other conduct bans we have seen - I have always said I expected a 10 games minimum. I won't discount a year but settling all but 4 cases is a help.
In the end I am not so sure the total of number of cases plays any role in what the NFL thinks. It has to some on the board. It never really influenced what I thought or think now.
The clearing of cases simplifies Watsons defense, so in that sense it helps.
In the end I am not so sure the total of number of cases plays any role in what the NFL thinks. It has to some on the board. It never really influenced what I thought or think now.
The clearing of cases simplifies Watsons defense, so in that sense it helps.
In the end I am not so sure the total of number of cases plays any role in what the NFL thinks. It has to some on the board. It never really influenced what I thought or think now.
The clearing of cases simplifies Watsons defense, so in that sense it helps.
This has been my view/belief too.
I'm not sure the amount of cases play no role, but part of the NFL's language is pretty clear... and that is they will follow guidelines for first offenses, and this is definitely Watson's first offense regardless of number of cases.
Also this:
Violations involving assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault will result in a baseline six-game suspension without pay, with more if aggravating factors are present, such as the use of a weapon or a crime against a child.
I would expect them to tack on 2-4 more games to the baseline because of the sheer number of cases. A suspension of 10 games or more will definitely (imo) result in legal action from Deshaun and the player's union.
The first bit of good news Browns fans have gotten since this entire mess showed up in Cleveland. Maybe, just maybe Watson might see the field for the Browns...we can hope..!
Tony Buzbee: 20 of the 24 cases against Deshaun Watson have settled
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 21, 2022, 11:59 AM EDT link
Most of the women suing Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson have agreed to a settlement.
Tony Buzbee, the attorney representing 24 female massage therapists who say Watson engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct during their sessions, announced today that 20 of his clients have settled.
“Today I announce that all cases against Deshaun Watson, with the exception of four, have settled,” Buzbee said in a statement. “We are working through the paperwork related to those settlements. Once we have done so, those particular cases will be dismissed. The terms and amounts of the settlements are confidential. We won’t comment further on the settlements or those cases.”
Settling the cases is a significant step for Watson as he attempts to resume his NFL career, but it in no way means he won’t be suspended by the NFL. What’s beneficial for Watson is that the terms of the settlements will be confidential, making it more likely that Watson can stem the flow of negative information that has done significant damage to his reputation.
But until all 24 cases are settled, Watson remains in jeopardy. And Buzbee indicated that the first plaintiff, Ashley Solis, and three other plaintiffs are continuing to move forward.
“Ashley Solis is one of the heroes of this story. Her case has not settled and thus her story and that of the other three brave women will continue. I look forward to trying these cases in due course, consistent with other docket obligations and the court’s schedule,” Buzbee said.
The NFL’s investigation of potential violations of the league’s personal conduct policy is ongoing.
Well, he sure proved his innocence. If y'all want to be giddy go ahead. This is great for him potentially moving forward with his life, but it damn sure doesn't exonerate what he may or may not have done. As a matter of fact, IMO, it makes him look guilty after just publically stating all he wanted to do was clear his name. Settling damn sure didn't do that. I love this team, but to hell with Deshaen Watson.
In the end I am not so sure the total of number of cases plays any role in what the NFL thinks. It has to some on the board. It never really influenced what I thought or think now.
The clearing of cases simplifies Watsons defense, so in that sense it helps.
This has been my view/belief too.
I'm not sure the amount of cases play no role, but part of the NFL's language is pretty clear... and that is they will follow guidelines for first offenses, and this is definitely Watson's first offense regardless of number of cases.
Also this:
Violations involving assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault will result in a baseline six-game suspension without pay, with more if aggravating factors are present, such as the use of a weapon or a crime against a child.
I would expect them to tack on 2-4 more games to the baseline because of the sheer number of cases. A suspension of 10 games or more will definitely (imo) result in legal action from Deshaun and the player's union.
Understood. Hard to explain it through text, but hopefully this will be clear. As an organizational thinking, the number plays a baseline part, but the thought process is it's a high number. The added numbers after the starting baseline and possibly if more in the future really don't have a bearing on the course of action taken for the suspension. The exception to this would be a new case coming forward with rape or something to that extreme.
Edit: should add i think whatever the suspension amount is given to him, will be appealed by DW and his team. This is my thought process on why it will be down to 6-8 games (after an appeal).
I find it interesting that the NFL PR guy said recent events won't change the "process." That may be true. But, will it influence the result of the process?
This is lining up for an 8 game suspension (my opinion). If so... our division rivals each get a stab at us with a backup QB and Watson gets the bye week to work himself through some reps.
Browns will need to go 4-4 to have a chance at the playoffs. 3-5 is tough... 3-5 is probably insurmountable if we are 0-3 in the division.
1 Sept. 11 at Panthers 2 Sept. 18 vs. Jets 3 Sept. 22 vs. Steelers (Thursday) 4 Oct. 2 at Falcons 5 Oct. 9 vs. Chargers 6 Oct. 16 vs. Patriots 7 Oct. 23 at Ravens 8 Oct. 31 vs. Bengals (Monday)
We probably won't beat the the Chargers, probably won't beat the Patriots, probably not much of a prayer in Baltimore. Really need to defend our turf against the Steelers and Bengals to have a real shot.
I also think it helps, clarifies where the outcomes are when packaged together for settlements. Just a thought in a new direction on this situation, don't be surprised to see vehement reactions on either or both parties around NFL ruling and discipline. The players will make this issue, especially if severe in their eyes, because it may be one to go to the mats for IMO. They must. Regardless of the outcome and disposition of DW's cases, the most easily overlooked aspect is vital IMO. We are spectators who are watching while a noteworthy precedent is being set; precedents have influence, and it is in place to guide similar futures. The NFL has to mindfully fashion its response with an eye on precedents it will pass down going forward. Some of that will be in degree of discipline and length and numbers of suspension. I can't wait to be looking back at this whole affair.
I do not know how long the suspension will be. There are some factors that can allow me to guess. The baseline is 6 games. No weapon was involved. The alleged victims were not minors. Most of the cases have been settled. Four have not. Public opinion, led by Mike Florio, has demanded a lengthy suspension. The HBO thing was bad for Watson. The NFLPA and Watson's defense team has threatened to go after the NFL hard to protect Watson's rights. They have mentioned the punishment for other owners who have violated the terms of the Almighty Personal Conduct Policy. Add to that the race card and unfair treatment of minorities over the years.
I'm guessing 6 games. The NFLPA will appeal and it will end up at 4 games. Anything more, and the NFLPA and Watson's legal team go after the NFL hard. I suggested that long before anyone brought it up and I still believe it is Watson's trump card.
If Watson is suspended for four games, I think that the Browns can weather the storm due to a rather easy schedule at the beginning of the year. Stefanski can game plan to feature the running game and quick passing game. Jacoby won't turn it over as much as Baker. He will take fewer sacks which should help keep us from getting behind the chains, which will enable our running game to be more productive. If JB has to play more than 4 games, the season is lost because he won't be able to sustain it and we will be right back to where we were last year.
Bottom line: I feel more optimistic today than I have for weeks.
I'm not sure the amount of cases play no role, but part of the NFL's language is pretty clear... and that is they will follow guidelines for first offenses, and this is definitely Watson's first offense regardless of number of cases.
And I think you get my point. Of course the numbers play some role on the overall situation, but even then not all that much unless you are factoring public opinion..
Let's say there was 1 woman involved in all of this. I don't think many people would be saying, well, it's ONLY 1 woman. We aren't dealing with a serial killer here.
My comments are more from a legal standpoint and not from a NFL standpoint where their main concern is with the members and personal conduct policy as they pertain to protecting the NFL shield. I don't say that to indicate the NFL doesn't care about legal outcome, but they have no control over that, so they aren't concerned with that, they care about the things they can control.
I agree w/you, but there is a growing sentiment out there that says the NFL is on a slippery slope because they are NOT the legal system and are acting like a legal system. I'm telling you, they could be in for a world of hurt if the NFLPA and Watson's legal team take this to the courts and this is tried "legally."
I agree w/you, but there is a growing sentiment out there that says the NFL is on a slippery slope because they are NOT the legal system and are acting like a legal system. I'm telling you, they could be in for a world of hurt if the NFLPA and Watson's legal team take this to the courts and this is tried "legally."
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I agree w/you, but there is a growing sentiment out there that says the NFL is on a slippery slope because they are NOT the legal system and are acting like a legal system. I'm telling you, they could be in for a world of hurt if the NFLPA and Watson's legal team take this to the courts and this is tried "legally."
Maybe, maybe not.
Codes of conduct are nothing new, and are legal. Many public companies are required to have a code of conduct.
I assume NFL players and employees have had to sign the code. If not, then there is a good chance to challenge. Assuming the code is a signed document of employment, then the only challenge would be on the grounds the code itself goes too far and is illegal in some way. It might be something to pursue, but the NFL has pretty good lawyers under direct employment and or contracted legal firms retained. I am not saying the code of employment couldn't be cracked, but it is probably a pretty tough nut.
The Personal Conduct Policy was approved by the NFLPA, so I don't think they can challenge from that angle. I think the angle they are threatening to pursue is that there is plenty of evidence of biased and inconsistent in terms of punishment when it comes to owners vs players when the Personal Conduct policy is violated. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I am expressing my properly?
J/C. With this Watson issue coming to a close sooner than later, can anyone tell me if him sitting all last year factors in at all? I didn’t read all 6 pages of the thread to see if somebody else covered that. I am thinking it has to be looked at a little. For him to miss even 8 games plus last year seems quite a lot considering there have been no criminal charges. I totally understand the severity of everything but I just don’t know how the discipline will be factored in with last year also.
Watson refused to play for the Texans', demanded a trade and sat out the season with pay. It had nothing to do with these allegations in my opinion. I doubt it has any factor in the suspension for his actions in this case.
The Personal Conduct Policy was approved by the NFLPA, so I don't think they can challenge from that angle. I think the angle they are threatening to pursue is that there is plenty of evidence of biased and inconsistent in terms of punishment when it comes to owners vs players when the Personal Conduct policy is violated. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I am expressing my properly?
I think you expressed it clearly. I disagree with your take on this. The league can say they made mistakes in the past and that those instances play no part in this decision. I don't think that line of reasoning is going to make one bit of difference.
The Personal Conduct Policy was approved by the NFLPA, so I don't think they can challenge from that angle. I think the angle they are threatening to pursue is that there is plenty of evidence of biased and inconsistent in terms of punishment when it comes to owners vs players when the Personal Conduct policy is violated. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I am expressing my properly?
You are. If anything, it probably wouldn't be of any help to Watson. It might make it harder on owners. I think that is why they now employ a ALJ of sorts who make the recommendations on sanctions, to shield the Commish from having to make decisions on essentially his employers. It's hard to make decisions against the people who sign your paycheck and hold your employment in their hands.
I think there has always been a discrepancy between owners, owners conduct, owners discipline for issues when compared to the treatment of the players. I would suggest that this is the same for 99% of all businesses. The owner is treated differently then the employees. It doesn't make it morally right and I think times are changing - people complain about "woke" culture, but I'd say addressing some of these types of imbalances might be a part of some of the 'woke' stuff. But regardless - mistakes and inappropriate decisions in the past probably won't make a lot of difference in this case as the NFL will want to be seen to treat these situations seriously and (probably) punitively. And yes, I think it is mostly about image, brand and $$$.
I'm glad watson settled 20 of 24 cases,,,, He still has four to go and my guess is that in no time at all, now that they've seen the Money, more will come out.
No matter what, Watson is still a scumbag... No character at all...
You are all making fair and valid points. I'm not arguing at this point and this is just another thing to consider. The NFLPA isn't just a bunch of players making decisions. To my knowledge, they have 4 attorneys as part of their legal counsel team. So, why would the NFLPA under the advice of their attorneys go public w/them bringing in Snyder, Jones, and Kraft into things when discussing Watson's defense if they did not think it was a viable strategy?
Sounds consistent with a report I talked about earlier about a offer was made and all but 4 wanted to settle, but the Watson camp made it a all or nothing deal.
Looks like the Watson camp decided getting the window dressing out of the way was the way to go to concentrate on the meat and potato's.
Hmmm, let me get this straight. Big Ben gets accused of rape with no criminal charges or civil suits and settles but is still deemed a rapist on this forum multiple times.
Bill Cosby just lost a civil suit where it took a woman 50 years to come out with her claims of improper sexual advances but any woman that comes out now with a claim against Watson is late to the game and should be discounted.
Hunt receives an 8-game suspension for one incident against 1 woman and yet 24 claims against Watson with more coming should receive the same consideration because the ladies had a single lawyer even though his actions occurred against multiple women over a 12-14 month period.
I have no idea what the NFL is going to do but settling 20 of these cases didn't clear Watson's name and with 4 still open and 2 predicted to come, he still should be facing a minimum of a year suspension. If the NFL goes light on Watson it will be a slap in the face to every women in America and set a precedent of it doesn't matter what NFL players do. Not to mention the fact that there were 66 women involved according to the NYTimes. How many women does it take to come out before the NFL and some on this forum to understand that this player has a serious issue with the treatment of women. Does it have to get to 30, maybe 40 or is the line in the sand 50? Hell, if I was Hunt I'd be livid that people think Watson should get less suspension time that what Hunt received. Yep, that's fair and balanced.
Will other lawsuits be filed against Deshaun Watson?
Posted by Mike Florio on June 22, 2022, 7:19 AM EDT link
The settlement of 20 lawsuits pending against Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson came eight days after attorney Tony Buzbee vowed that two more lawsuits would be filed, pushing the total to 26.
Omitted from Tuesday’s statement issued by Buzbee regarding the settlements is the question of whether those lawsuits will be filed — and whether others will proceed. Indeed, the statement Buzbee issued in response to Watson’s recent press conference suggested that even more lawsuits are coming. Was that merely bluster in the hopes of settling cases, or was it real? Time will tell.
It’s also possible that the commencement of the settlement process (the final four cases could in theory be settled at any time) has included a wink-nod from Buzbee to Watson’s camp that Buzbee is exiting the business of suing Deshaun Watson. Buzbee can’t make that commitment officially; the rules of ethics prevent lawyers from agreeing to restrict their future practices in order to resolve current cases. But Buzbee can unofficially inform Hardin that Buzbee will focus on other matters.
Still, four cases remain active. There’s no specific reason to believe that others won’t sue. In fact, news of the 20 settlements could provide the impetus for others to try to get what the 20 plaintiffs are receiving.
Hmmm, let me get this straight. Big Ben gets accused of rape with no criminal charges or civil suits and settles but is still deemed a rapist on this forum multiple times.
The forum isn't a hivemind, some people spoke out against Ben and Deshuan, some people spoke out against Ben and supported Deshuan, some probably didn't speak out at all.
Well, he sure proved his innocence. If y'all want to be giddy go ahead. This is great for him potentially moving forward with his life, but it damn sure doesn't exonerate what he may or may not have done. As a matter of fact, IMO, it makes him look guilty after just publically stating all he wanted to do was clear his name. Settling damn sure didn't do that. I love this team, but to hell with Deshaen Watson.
I doubt we'll ever know if Watson's "I just want to clear my name" was bluster or not. Regardless (and IMO), the settlement came down to a cold emotionless business decision. Maybe Watson was sincere, but he was probably going to end up dying on that hill, regardless of the truth.
Hmmm, let me get this straight. Big Ben gets accused of rape with no criminal charges or civil suits and settles but is still deemed a rapist on this forum multiple times.
Witnesses saw rapistberger escort a drunken girl into the bar bathroom and had his bodyguards standing guard and not letting her friends check on her....and then the victim later dropped the charges.
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Bill Cosby just lost a civil suit where it took a woman 50 years to come out with her claims of improper sexual advances but any woman that comes out now with a claim against Watson is late to the game and should be discounted.
The only reason the woman in the Cosby case was allowed to proceed was that she was a minor at the time of the assault
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Hunt receives an 8-game suspension for one incident against 1 woman and yet 24 claims against Watson with more coming should receive the same consideration because the ladies had a single lawyer even though his actions occurred against multiple women over a 12-14 month period.
Hunt threw a woman to the ground and kicked her, and there was video evidence.
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I have no idea what the NFL is going to do but settling 20 of these cases didn't clear Watson's name and with 4 still open and 2 predicted to come, he still should be facing a minimum of a year suspension.
Says who and based on what?
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If the NFL goes light on Watson it will be a slap in the face to every women in America and set a precedent of it doesn't matter what NFL players do.
That's a real stretch.
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Not to mention the fact that there were 66 women involved according to the NYTimes. How many women does it take to come out before the NFL and some on this forum to understand that this player has a serious issue with the treatment of women.
With more than half of those involved in any sexual behavior saying it was consensual.
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[quote] Does it have to get to 30, maybe 40 or is the line in the sand 50? Hell, if I was Hunt I'd be livid that people think Watson should get less suspension time that what Hunt received. Yep, that's fair and balanced.
You can't compare this case to Hunt.
I think there was creepy stuff going on with DW, and he's going to get suspended......there's no need to pile on with these inaccurate analogies.
Trotter - Browns FO was expecting 4-6 game suspension at time of trade. Now 8-10-12 or whole season is expected.
Seemed the opinion offered was a minimum of 10 games would be 'right' and they would feel fine if it was the season - that was Keyshon J. No-one challenged or disagreed.
The open cases are a problem. And I agree with the implication that if 25 of 26 settle - and if 1 goes to trial and wins a civil case - the 1 case would "speak for" the other 15.
Just like the non indictments didn't declare him innocent...the Settlements do not declare him guilty...Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but I don't feel it is fair to label the guy as a predator (nor an angel) without the facts. I have stated many times before that these cases were going to get settled as over 97 precent of Civil cases are settled. That is because the strategy of the all plaintiff lawyers is to drag things out and make it more costly to fight than to settle...or if high profile...to fight in the arena of public opinion instead of the courtroom to place more pressure on the defendant.
So don't take the settlements as proof he is guilty. Just like the indictments...they are part of the story...they both have some relevance...but neither is proof of guilt or innocence...
All this has done is ease some of the legal issues facing Watson as they are done with...And as the terms are confidential...we will never have the "facts"...again...you are welcome to your opinions...but I feel it unfair to be judgmental based on this event...
He has 4 to go and I can see these having a better chance of going to trial...perhaps before August 22 when the moratorium begins. Are the Texans going to be drawn onto this? Does Watson have a better chance of winning or losing if it comes to trial? Interesting questions from an outside observance...
The NFL decision is going to be extremely interesting...Paid or not, he sat out last year entirely...I don't know if that will have any influence. The NFLPA attacking the double standard...will be very interesting to watch. Because this very well could come into a legal arena and the NFL would be forced to open up their investigation findings not only for Watson but for Jones, Snyder, Kraft, etc. Something the NFL does not want to do. While the NFLPA does want to protect Watson...obligated or otherwise...I do believe they are using this case as the springboard concerning the Double standard and punishment process of the Conduct policy.
The biggest loser in this will probably be the NFL. They can't win in any scenario. Judge harshly and they are going to be in court opening up files they don't want to open...Judge lighter, they will lose the public PR Battle as Buzbee has successfully tried this case in the court of public opinion. He may be a scumbag(Buzbee)...but he does know what he is doing...and he is good at it. There really is no balancing point for the NFL's decision.
The biggest loser in this will probably be the NFL. They can't win in any scenario. Judge harshly and they are going to be in court opening up files they don't want to open...Judge lighter, they will lose the public PR Battle as Buzbee has successfully tried this case in the court of public opinion. He may be a scumbag(Buzbee)...but he does know what he is doing...and he is good at it. There really is no balancing point for the NFL's decision.
I have been thinking about that and I agree w/you.
It's a lose/lose for the NFL, they should just rip the band-aid off and let it fade into our memories as other stories eventually top the news cycles. The longer they let this fester, the longer it stays in the spotlight.
It's a lose/lose for the NFL, they should just rip the band-aid off and let it fade into our memories as other stories eventually top the news cycles. The longer they let this fester, the longer it stays in the spotlight.
My guess is that the NFL wants exactly that (as do most Browns fans)...but when does the flowing spigot of 'new' lawsuits stop?
Houston most likely wanted to be rid of him because it had become obvious that he was a sexual predator and they did not want that to be associated with their brand. This obviously created a rift. They played their cards right and took Cleveland for everything they had.
Houston most likely wanted to be rid of him because it had become obvious that he was a sexual predator and they did not want that to be associated with their brand. This obviously created a rift. They played their cards right and took Cleveland for everything they had.
I agree w/you, but there is a growing sentiment out there that says the NFL is on a slippery slope because they are NOT the legal system and are acting like a legal system. I'm telling you, they could be in for a world of hurt if the NFLPA and Watson's legal team take this to the courts and this is tried "legally."
True, they are not the legal system. Neither is any other company or corporation that sets punitive guidelines for their employees under their employment. The NFLPA agreed to and signed a contract allowing punitive ramifications. Included within that policy....
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Criminal offenses including, but not limited to, those involving: the use or threat of violence; domestic violence and other forms of partner abuse; theft and other property crimes; sex offenses; obstruction or resisting arrest; disorderly conduct; fraud; racketeering; and money laundering; Criminal offenses relating to steroids and prohibited substances, or substances of abuse;
Now I'm not saying it's right, but what the wording "sex offenses" means is very open to interpretation. It does not define it as criminal. So it's very open ended.
The question as to how the NFL handles this all boils down to one thing IMO. That is whether they would rather face the wrath of many NFL fans and the public in general, or whether they would rather face the NFLPA in court. They've shown thus far not to have a problem facing the NFLPA in court. I have no idea how they will handle it. But my guess is that they see a court battle with the NFLPA far less damaging to the league than taking on half of the nations population.
Something that I may have missed yesterday was the mention of Watson agreeing to seek counseling. I highlighted in red from the Cleveland.com story below, those parts addressing the issue of counseling and therapy.
JMO, but if Watson is going to get his life back on track counseling and therapy would be a good place to start.
Deshaun Watson, in settling and getting counseling, is showing the NFL he’s willing to do the work: Browns Takeaways
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Over the past two weeks, Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson has shown the NFL he’s willing to do the work to move forward from the his off-the-field issues and resume his NFL career.
If the league sees enough effort and willingness from Watson, it could be a mitigating factor in his discipline, which could be handed down in the next week or two. According to the collectively bargained Personal Conduct Policy, the NFL will take into account a player’s actions in the aftermath of the alleged wrongdoing.
“In determining discipline, both aggravating and mitigating factors may be considered,’’ the policy reads. “Reference also may be made to requirements to seek ongoing counseling, treatment, or therapy where appropriate as well as the imposition of enhanced supervision, which upon satisfactory compliance would serve to mitigate the discipline otherwise imposed.’’
Last week, Watson acknowledged for the first time that he’s seeking counseling in the wake of more than 24 female massage therapists accusing him of sexual misconduct during appointments mostly in 2020 and 2021.
On Tuesday, he reached confidential settlements in 20 of the 24 civil suits against him, and is prepared to try to clear his name in the other four cases if it comes to that.
“It’s been a long year and half, I can say that,’’ Watson said last week during mandatory minicamp. “Personally, it’s been tough. And since I came here and since I became a Cleveland Brown, I’ve been able to use all the resources that this organization has. Been able to start using counseling and talking with someone just to make sure that my mental is straight and so I can be prepared to walk on this field and be as sharp as I possibly can.
“And I’m going to continue to do that, be the best person and grow as an individual, grow as a human being, and just be able to be the best citizen, best person that I can be outside this field, and also when I walk out of this building, be the best teammate and player that I can be.’’
The settlements came a week after Watson repeated that he didn’t want to do it.
“I just want to clear my name and be able to let the facts and the legal procedures continue to play out,’’ he said last week.
Ultimately, he decided it was the best way to begin to move ahead.
The decision to seek counseling was also a departure from his introductory press conference March 25, in which he said he didn’t need it because he didn’t do anything wrong. Whether he believes he’s innocent or not, Watson should benefit from therapy, and it could have an impact on the NFL’s decision.
In the wake of the 20 settlements announced Tuesday by plaintiffs attorney Tony Buzbee, NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said in a statement, “Today’s development has no impact on the collectively bargained disciplinary process.’’
But if the NFL sees that Watson is taking one more step to move forward and to make restitution even though he was determined to clear his name, perhaps it will be viewed favorably.
At the very least, Watson is getting help, and if his accusers need help in dealing with the aftermath of their encounters with him, they now have the resources to get it as well. And now, neither Watson nor 20 of his accusers will have to wait years for a resolution.
What’s next
The next big step in the process is for former U.S. District Judge Sue L. Robinson, the disciplinary officer jointly appointed by the NFL and NFLPA, to determine the length of Watson’s suspension. A league source has confirmed for cleveland.com that the NFL Players Association is bracing for an “unprecedented” punishment, which could mean a year-long suspension, and it seems like a foregone conclusion that the league will dock him a significant number of games.
But the NFLPA is gearing up for a fight, and will argue that the league didn’t come down hard on NFL owners Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder for alleged misconduct on the part of themselves or those in their organizations.
While the NFL could start by suspending him a year, the NFLPA plans to argue for no suspension based in part on the fact there’s no evidence that Watson engaged in wrongdoing and that two separate grand juries declined to indict him on criminal charges.
But just like the non-indictments didn’t mean he was innocent, the settlements aren’t an admission of guilt. Watson maintains he’s done nothing wrong, but felt it was time to put the bulk of the cases behind him so it was less of a distraction to the Browns, their fans, and their players.
Again, if Watson does have to face four trials, he’ll view it as a chance to have his say in court and clear his name. Watson’s attorney, Rusty Hardin, told cleveland.com the NFL had completed its interviews with Watson, even though a 24th suit was subsequently filed and new accusers spoke for the first time to Jenny Vrentas of The New York Times.
Typically, when the NFL talks to the accused, the discipline is not far behind. Some expect it to come next week, but it could be as early as this week. Friel then makes a recommendation to Robinson, who can ask for a hearing or for more information before making a determination.
According to the policy, “depending on the nature of the violation and the player’s record, discipline may be a fine, a suspension for a fixed or an indefinite period of time, a combination of the two, or banishment from the league with an opportunity to reapply. Discipline may also include a probationary period and conditions that must be met for reinstatement and to remain eligible to participate.’’
If Watson’s camp disagrees with the ruling, they’ll appeal to Goodell, whose word will be final.
How much did he settle for?
The agreements were confidential, but a note in the 23rd civil suit states “we know that Deshaun Watson offered each plaintiff $100,000 to settle their cases, but not all would accept that amount, due to the aggressive non-disclosure agreement that Watson’s team proposed.’’
Hardin probably insisted on non-disclosure agreements again, and the amount of the settlements could vary.
The other plaintiffs -- one of which is Ashley Solis, the first one to come forward and one of two to be interviewed by Soledad O’Brien for HBO’s “Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel” -- are holding out for more money or are determined to go to trial.
It’s not yet known if Buzbee still plans to file the other two civil suits he said he intended to file, or if he’ll still add the Texans as a defendant.
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
Am I the only one who finds the timing of the settlements curious? Once a team, and owner, got dragged into this most of the cases got settled. It is almost as if the league pushed Watson's camp to settle to avoid a trial where one of the league's owners was likely to not come out of it well.
Yes, this is conspiracy thinking. It's been a rough couple of weeks and I probably should have stayed away from the board a little while longer.
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
Sure you do. Business and government agencies have had many people take sensitivity training as standard procedure.
I haven't seen anything in reference to this that would indicate it addresses any part of these allegations or anything to do with addressing anything of a sexual nature. I also haven't seen anything that ties his counseling to any part of a settlement. From his description it seems he's trying to indicate that it's more about the stress he's been under during the increased focus on these cases.
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“It’s been a long year and half, I can say that,’’ Watson said last week during mandatory minicamp. “Personally, it’s been tough. And since I came here and since I became a Cleveland Brown, I’ve been able to use all the resources that this organization has. Been able to start using counseling and talking with someone just to make sure that my mental is straight and so I can be prepared to walk on this field and be as sharp as I possibly can.
“And I’m going to continue to do that, be the best person and grow as an individual, grow as a human being, and just be able to be the best citizen, best person that I can be outside this field, and also when I walk out of this building, be the best teammate and player that I can be.’’
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
Sure you do. Business and government agencies have had many people take sensitivity training as standard procedure.
Not only that, but he remained deliberately vague (still pending cases). The only real specific he gave was about being ready to perform on the field.
Also, at the risk of angering some Board (or bored) Police folks, getting counseling for a sex issue (assumed this is what the counseling is for) doesn't necessarily mean he committed assault. He has a problem (so seeking treatment would be a positive), and it's still my belief that he fed an addiction by engaging masseuses as prostitutes (which I'm assuming is what one might do to not get caught up in TX prostitution laws), and at some point may or may not have slipped up or gone way too far.
The probability of both being true (him having a sex addiction/issue and him being innocent on the grounds of all incidents being consensual) is admittedly low, but still a possibility.
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
Sure you do. Business and government agencies have had many people take sensitivity training as standard procedure.
He has also admitted to having some sexual relations with several of the massage therapists but claims it was consensual.. so obviously he can feel like he needs to get his sexual urges under control...
Tiger Woods never did anything illegal and really only destroyed his own personal life (for a while) and he got therapy for his sexual proclivities...
And from actually reading his statement, to take from that it has anything to do with sexual issues would take a huge leap of one's imagination.
Meh - honestly, I have not felt much sincerity when DW has talked. It has not felt natural either - and that might be over coaching or something from the legal team. idk ... it might be harsh to judge someone under such intense scrutiny. But I never got the warm and fuzzies about anything he said. To me this counseling/therapy comment smacks of someone advising him that he needs to say this. Again - idk, just gut feel from my perspective.
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
ocd...I never believed the claim that Watson was simply trying to clear his name and was willing to fight all the cases in a court of law just to prove that he was innocent. The news came out that Watson had attempted to settle most of the civil suits a year ago for $100K each, but the deal fell apart due to language in the proposed NDA.
JMO, but some of Watson's first comments to the Cleveland press gave the impression that Watson was an arrogant ass trying to sell the Browns fans his claim that he did nothing wrong. I always felt that Watson and his lawyers should have went to work to end the 'I did nothing wrong' charade and would have been better off to admit that he needed to look at himself and do what was needed to make some changes in his life.
After the drip, drip, drip started it became much harder for Browns fans to believe the claims that Watson was attempting to sell. Watson and his team of lawyers had terrible June with additional lawsuits and Hardin running his mouth about 'happy endings'. The pressure built and finally someone got through to Watson and his team of lawyers that they needed to change course and start by settling the lawsuits and for Watson to address his own personal issues.
Had Watson, his lawyers and the Browns pushed this approach from the day Watson first addressed the Cleveland media, the entire case might have been viewed differently by the NFL in terms of punishment/suspension.
Watson and his law team took the wrong approach, imo and simply dug the hole deeper.
So now we wait to see if the late change in approach will benefit Watson and the Browns this season.
I wonder if some of the timing issues has to do with negotiating that many settlements, especially after declining previously to settle. While you negotiate in good faith you still make the same statements you would make if you aren't negotiating.
Not sure the hole is any deeper, not sure he was able to fill it in any. As with all legal proceedings, time will tell. Legal stuff moves slow, until it doesn't.
If the women admit without an NDA that Watson paid them for a massage which included sexual favors they would be admitting to prostitution.
Ironically, prostitution is a class B felony each of the women would get "first solicitation offense charges could face state jail felony penalties of between 180 days in jail and up to 2 years in jail and a fine of up to $10,000".
It's highly likely all of them will settle under a mutual NDA... otherwise, the women will be admitting to guilt and the DA can have a field day making an example out of those 24 women and Watson while cleaning up the massage industry in Texas.
I don't have much time to really focus on the article, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
But I don't see where it focused on a certain reason why he's getting counseling. He just said to get his mental straight and be sharp on the field. That could mean so many things.
I could be wrong, but I am a good reader. Have an advanced degree in English. For those of you who don't know, English at that level has almost nothing to do w/grammar, punctuation, etc. It's about interpreting the written word across a plethora of genres.
Watson's comments read more like he has been under a lot of pressure due to the public scrutiny and the weight of the accusations he is facing. He wan't to ensure that he is at his best mentally and emotionally on the field of play and to help him deal w/the negative attention. It does not read as an admission of guilt no matter how much some wish it to be true.
I truly don't know what to think about Watson's suspension. I keep going back and forth. The public opinion thing is bad. First Take absolutely shredded Watson today. I was a bit surprised because Stephan A Smith is on that show. On the other hand, the Snyder thing got a ton of attention on the networks today. It's a huge story and was the lead on Sports Center. I think that story is going to get much, much uglier. The NFL is getting a lot of negative attention right now and is almost sure to gain even more no matter what they decide to do w/Watson.
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
Sure you do. Business and government agencies have had many people take sensitivity training as standard procedure.
Not only that, but he remained deliberately vague (still pending cases). The only real specific he gave was about being ready to perform on the field.
Also, at the risk of angering some Board (or bored) Police folks, getting counseling for a sex issue (assumed this is what the counseling is for) doesn't necessarily mean he committed assault. He has a problem (so seeking treatment would be a positive), and it's still my belief that he fed an addiction by engaging masseuses as prostitutes (which I'm assuming is what one might do to not get caught up in TX prostitution laws), and at some point may or may not have slipped up or gone way too far.
The probability of both being true (him having a sex addiction/issue and him being innocent on the grounds of all incidents being consensual) is admittedly low, but still a possibility.
Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't need the counseling, I just find it odd that one week after once again saying he was innocent, he settled and agreed to get counseling. But if he was innocent and just wanting to CLEAR his name, why did he need counseling? The guy is a slimeball.
And I get the business side, the league being on him, the Browns pushing this, etc. Still does nothing to convince me he deserves to be our QB and play any time soon.
And one question about your saying it's still possible he's innocent; do you believe there is a remote chance that is true, honestly? I don't, and if he settles the rest, we will never have a chance to know. I can't accept that and am SO disappointed that this team put it's fans in this situation. Winning just isn't that important to us, or we wouldn't be Browns fans. The whole thing reeks of Haslam's desperation.
Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't need the counseling, I just find it odd that one week after once again saying he was innocent, he settled and agreed to get counseling. But if he was innocent and just wanting to CLEAR his name, why did he need counseling?
I understand why you feel it may be odd. We don't know the reason at this point in time (if maybe ever). As for why he needed it: Maybe it was for things he may of done wrong in the sessions. Maybe it's b/c he knows he's innocent and he needs an outlet to de-stress from all the pressure he is receiving. It doesn't specify what kind of counselor, maybe it's a sports counselor? Maybe it's helping him re-focus as a leader of a team.
There are so maybe's with this vague information.
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And one question about your saying it's still possible he's innocent; do you believe there is a remote chance that is true, honestly?
This isn't directed at me. But from experience, I have seen large groups in high positions turn on one person who was innocent and in the right. I am not saying DW didn't do anything, I am not saying did do something. I am just in wait mode till there is closure no matter if it's good or bad.
I doubt any facts will come with said closure, I'd bet he ends up settling all other cases behind closed doors and we will be left knowing no more than we do now. And I could care less if he has a sex addiction as long as he could prove he didn't use his celebrity to force himself on these women. I can't root for a preditor. I could root for a sick QB who stayed within the lines of sexual consent and is in treatment for said addiction. But also as troubling to me, is the fact that Haslams and the FO thought bringing him in was worth all of this. And if one of these remaining cases proves he's a preditor without a doubt, I'm done with this organization until he's gone for good. That's a hard-ass pill to swallow after 50 years of fandom.
There were 13--14 other teams who wanted to "bring him in." And if you are done w/the organization................leave. I would never blame you for standing on your principles if you truly believe in them. What I don't like is you sticking around just to make others miserable because they won't join you in hating the Browns.
This is free will. You have not been born into slavery. You are free to leave. No one is making you root for a team you find so disgusting. No one will chastise you for standing on your high moral ground of not supporting a team w/a man who is accused of sexual misconduct. The masses have embraced those w/far worse accusations. Kobe was accused of RAPE and paid a large settlement and publicly apologized to the woman and her family. Yet, he is revered. I could go on and on and on w/similar examples.
If you are so morally righteous..........leave! But, please stop trying to convince others to do the same. I hope Watson plays for the Browns and your constant whining and b......ing won't change that.
There were 13--14 other teams who wanted to "bring him in." And if you are done w/the organization................leave. I would never blame you for standing on your principles if you truly believe in them. What I don't like is you sticking around just to make others miserable because they won't join you in hating the Browns.
This is free will. You have not been born into slavery. You are free to leave. No one is making you root for a team you find so disgusting. No one will chastise you for standing on your high moral ground of not supporting a team w/a man who is accused of sexual misconduct. The masses have embraced those w/far worse accusations. Kobe was accused of RAPE and paid a large settlement and publicly apologized to the woman and her family. Yet, he is revered. I could go on and on and on w/similar examples.
If you are so morally righteous..........leave! But, please stop trying to convince others to do the same. I hope Watson plays for the Browns and your constant whining and b......ing won't change that.
You leave! Run away just like you did months ago. You just jumped through three forums attacking me. Go screw yourself V. And I'll be here to make your rooting for a preditor HELL, every damn day. Count on it.
All I have to do is disagree with you. You'll melt down like butter in a microwave.
And one question about your saying it's still possible he's innocent; do you believe there is a remote chance that is true, honestly?
TLDR: I've tried my hardest to maintain an open mind, and settling the cases doesn't move the needle for me at all. A big part of me is bummed because I want to know if this is true about the guy I'm supposed to be rooting for. It's weird to want this whole civil lawsuit thing to drag on to the end because none of the people that are actually involved want that (other than the lawyers).
From the jump, my guess was that he was hitting the massage circuit like he was in order to pay for sex. I think the oversized payments to individual masseuses, the pimp-type people that he made large payments to that organized many masseuses for him, his alleged preference for un-licensed/certified masseuses, etc speaks to that hypothesis. Perhaps he slipped up and booked women that weren't on board with this situation, and that's where this whole thing started to unravel. I dunno. My (biased) gut says I see a guy with some serious and seriously weird issues that allowed said issues (with a bunch of help from people around him that shouldn't have been helping him in this way) to get out of control. I don't see a guy that could be a Law & Order SVU season finale bad guy.
I'm really disappointed that we're not going to hear more evidence from these allegations. IMO, there wasn't enough evidence available to us 'normal folks' to know for sure. 24-26 is definitely a big number, but a lot of equally compelling evidence against those allegations got ignored due to Watson's team getting taken to school in the court of public opinion. There was enough evidence for Watson that unsurprisingly didn't make it into an HBO special focused on the ongoing civil lawsuits.
Yeah, I do believe there's a remote chance. I wanted that belief to be definitively proven one way or another.
Fair enough. I can respect that. But for a few interpretations of what I think happened, we could be on the same page. Let me ask how you feel about him being the Browns QB if there is no resolution to your questions. And I don't think he's SUV Finale bad, but if he used his celebrity and actually forced these women against their will, then he's close. But I don't think we will ever know. What are you supposed to do with that? Asking seriously for your opinion.
I've read most of your response to this over the past two days... and everyone here would agree that you are one of the more level-headed contributors. Here's a bottom line that we can all wrap our heads around...
"Knowing" what really went on was intersecting with a point on the graph known as "dumpster fire football team"; and I'll trade not knowing.
I don't need the gory details. Somewhere lost in the endless arguments between "but, but... a court of law..." and "22 women!!!" is a fact. I've said it many times, I'll say it again. Deshaun is a pervert. Plain and simple. And really, as the stories have unfolded, one of the biggest pigs in the (reported) history of the league. You don't really need to examine every case under a microscope to understand that.
As much as we all grew weary of Pit's "22 women!", he was 100% correct in one simple aspect... that doesn't happen by accident. It wasn't just a bandwagon. Regardless of any courts "decision" this lands squarely in the territory of "Houston, we have a problem".
Was he enabled? Maybe. Was he unclear that he was crossing boundaries? Maybe at the beginning. Was he clouded by the fact that many of these "sessions" resulted in him getting what he wanted? Good chance. Was he warned that things were getting out of hand? YES. Yet he continued.
Is he remorseful? We'll find out. Will time heal this wound? Time always does.
I've heard enough to know everything I need to know... #24 had me waving the white flag. It's not about "guilt" anymore, it's about what he does going forward. And truth be told, if his demeanor, beyond the timetable of the remaining litigation and suspension, is "I didn't do anything wrong"... there are not enough championships to make me respect him as a man.
I will talk to you because you seem fair. Perhaps you won't talk to me and that is fine.
I want to ask why you feel the need to know the details? Would knowing the details change your mind about whether or not you support the team?
I am not asking these questions in an adversarial manner. I know I got on OCD and arch earlier, but there is a history there. I am legitimately asking you why that is such a big deal?
Have you ever bought a pair of Nikes? If so, are you supporting slave labor? I can go on, but you are intelligent enough to get the point.
I really don't think there has ever been any shred of evidence that Watson "forced" anything. ALL reports of sexual assault were quickly squashed or discredited... with very little resistance from Buzbee.
No one is forcing you to root for Watson or the Browns. You have free will.
It appears to me that because some of you are unhappy about the QB decisions......and I do mean decisions.......that the Browns have made that you want others to agree w/you.
Why?
Once again, I have no problem w/anyone who is so disgusted by Watson's alleged actions that they stop rooting for the Browns. That is a personal choice. But WTF do you guys have to try and convince the rest of us to not root for them? Just leave and find a team more worthy of your higher moral standard.
Who the hell are you talking to? I'm not telling anyone not to root for the team.
And take your "decisions" Baker innuendo and shove it you know where. I've said nothing about Baker -- you're the one clinging to that b.s. like the last life raft leaving the Titanic.
Once again, no one cares what problems you have -- we can't keep up.
GTHOH with your "find a team worthy" nonsense. That crap may work on others, but you came to the wrong place if you think I'm going to listen to that ish.
I've heard enough to know everything I need to know... #24 had me waving the white flag. It's not about "guilt" anymore, it's about what he does going forward. And truth be told, if his demeanor, beyond the timetable of the remaining litigation and suspension, is "I didn't do anything wrong"... there are not enough championships to make me respect him as a man.
Read your own words and then shove your fake outrage up you butt.
I really don't think there has ever been any shred of evidence that Watson "forced" anything. ALL reports of sexual assault were quickly squashed or discredited... with very little resistance from Buzbee.
I've intentionally avoided the details because starting out, and even now, there is a degree of he said she said going on in those details. But I've tried to take a birdseye view to see the whole picture. In doing that I started by trying to be open-minded, but that position became difficult in the last couple of weeks. And yet, I was willing to watch and listen, and even started to admire DW's wanting to clear his name. Then the 23rd and 24th lawsuits happened, and the talking heads started to sway me, some with facts others with insights into being a player. The payment to the madam and the 25th and 26th killed any feelings I had that he might be truly innocent. And this settlement makes him look guilty to me. I get all the views and "what abouts" on that topic, but none of it withstood the smell test to me. At this point, I think he's worse than we know and the coverup is happening in the light of day to rescue his talent, save face for the NFL and FO, and to put it behind us for the sake of those that it's most inconvenient for. I'm struggling to accept that.
No one is forcing you to root for Watson or the Browns. You have free will.
It appears to me that because some of you are unhappy about the QB decisions......and I do mean decisions.......that the Browns have made that you want others to agree w/you.
Why?
Once again, I have no problem w/anyone who is so disgusted by Watson's alleged actions that they stop rooting for the Browns. That is a personal choice. But WTF do you guys have to try and convince the rest of us to not root for them? Just leave and find a team more worthy of your higher moral standard.
So I should be fine with throwing away 50 years of hardcore fanaticism over DW? NOPE. Not when I can be an activist for something better than what we are looking at now. But even if I can't get my questions answered, or am forced to tolerate him being our QB under these circumstances, I'm still a hardcore Browns fan and the only thing that will end that is my demise. If I can't actively root for them or enjoy the victories like I wish I could, I'll just bide my time because the NFL is the not-for-long league, after all.
OCD: Huge Baker Fan, but didn't really know anything about DW. Was pissed at the trade, but after a couple of days accepted Baker was done in Cleveland. Tried to be open-minded about DW, but as time and events changed the narrative, decided he does not like DW.
If you want to be fair, that's the story. TBH, all I knew about DW was he was a QB for Houston that many liked. I don't pay attention to guys like that unless they are playing against us in any given week. And I only watch taking head clips about the browns. So it's not hard to understand.
OCD: Huge Baker Fan, but didn't really know anything about DW. Was pissed at the trade, but after a couple of days accepted Baker was done in Cleveland. Tried to be open-minded about DW, but as time and events changed the narrative, decided he does not like DW.
If you want to be fair, that's the story. TBH, all I knew about DW was he was a QB for Houston that many liked. I don't pay attention to guys like that unless they are playing against us in any given week. And I only watch taking head clips about the browns. So it's not hard to understand.
Lex: Browns fan. Doesn't buy into the Baker Boy/ Watson Masseur craze. Believes Browns got fleeced on Watson.
The headline — ‘Deshaun Watson settles 20 of 24 sexual misconduct lawsuits against him’ — suggests sports’ saddest saga and the NFL’s current biggest embarrassment is nearing an end. It isn’t. And this is no victory lap for the embattled Cleveland Browns quarterback.
Three months ago, in his introductory news conference in Cleveland after the trade from Houston, Watson was asked specifically if he would attempt to settle the civil suits filed against him alleging grossly inappropriate behavior during massage therapy sessions. “That’s not my intent,” he said. “My intent is to continue to clear my name as much as possible, and that’s what I’m focused on.”
Watson knew it then: When you try to settle cases, i.e. pay money to make them go away, you are not so much “clearing your name” as you are seeming to concede wrongdoing — by perception, at least. Just last week he made clear again that settling the cases was not the plan. Then came Tuesday and Tony Buzbee, attorney for the all of the plaintiffs, announced 20 had agreed to settle. Hmm. Also last week, Watson finally admitted regrets, acknowledging at least a smidgen of responsibility for this mess.
“I do understand that I do have regrets as far as the impact on the community and people outside of just myself,” he said. “That includes my family. That includes this organization. That includes my teammates that have to answer these questions. That includes the fan base of the Cleveland Browns.”
That did not include the two dozen women suing him, rather notably. No regrets there. But now he wants to pay them for their troubles rather than “clear his name” by hoping a jury might agree 24 women are all lying while he, the real victim (!), is telling the truth. Smart move. A concession to reality, as the Akron Beacon-Journal publishes a new investigative report outlining many of the allegations in graphic detail. Watson’s troubles have hardly gone away. Four civil suits remain, including that of Ashley Solis, the first woman to file a lawsuit, to identify herself as a plaintiff and to speak publicly.
“Ashley Solis is one of the heroes of this story,” Buzbee said. “Her case has not settled and thus her story and that of the other three brave women will continue. I look forward to trying these cases.” There also is the possibility other, new cases could be filed.
Legal maneuvering may also be in play under Rule 167 of the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure. Under this rule, Watson could maker an offer to the remaining four plaintiffs and, if the plaintiffs in a trial ultimately recovered less than 80 percent of that offer, the plaintiffs would then be liable for all litigation costs incurred by Watson from the time the offer was rejected. I know, seems Byzantine. Strangely punishes the plaintiffs. Welcome to Texas! All of this plays out among lawyers as the NFL moves closer to announcing whether its investigation will lead to punishment for Watson under the league’s personal conduct policy. A substantial penalty is anticipated, including a major fine and perhaps a one-year (full season) suspension. What has been missing through all of this is any sense of mea culpa from Watson himself. That is understandable. Spending big to settle cases against you might imply guilt, but to admit it outright of course would be used against him as Exhibit A in the remaining four civil suits. It also would likely make the NFL come down with a bigger hammer in its punishment.
The situation is an uncomfortable conundrum for Watson, though — to admit zero wrongdoing as 24 women line up against you with explicit accusations even as you try to pay them to drop said cases. It might be after the civil trials have ended, but at some point Watson needs to try honesty and remorse. Unless 24 women are all lying, he had a creepy predilection to find sexual kicks during massage sessions. He got caught. The women say he wanted to expose himself? Well, he got exposed alright. Tiger Woods had a sex addiction. Admitted it. Got therapy. America forgave him. Embraced the contrition. He found a path back to being beloved. Deshaun Watson might take a lesson if the idea is closure, of getting past this for real. Before all of the settlements, he talked about “clearing his name.”
Unless 24 women are lying, he will never do it without a starting point of remorse, of apology.
This story was originally published June 22, 2022 11:27 AM.
GREG COTE Greg Cote is a Miami Herald sports columnist who in 2021 was named top 10 in column writing by the Associated Press Sports Editors. Greg also hosts The Greg Cote Show podcast and appears regularly on The Dan LeBatard Show With Stugotz.
Most of Deshaun Watson's lawsuits have been settled, but the first — and potentially most problematic — remains
Dan Wetzel·Columnist Wed, June 22, 2022, 2:12 PM link
(Warning: This column contains allegations of sexual misconduct.)
It should be of little surprise that when Houston-area attorney Tony Buzbee announced that 20 of his 24 clients had settled civil lawsuits against Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson, he spent most of the time talking about one of the plaintiffs who hadn’t resolved things.
Ashley Solis.
Tuesday’s settlements are a step toward Watson eventually moving past this scandal and perhaps returning to play NFL games, but it was by no means the end, or even close to it.
Solis and three other women who allege sexual assault, harassment and inappropriate behavior from Watson after he hired them for massage work remain. And Solis has always had a particularly strong case — and thus an ugly and potentially dangerous one for Watson.
It was Solis who had an established, professional massage-therapy business. It was Solis who was contacted out of the blue by Watson via Instagram. It is Solis who describes a creepy run-up to the meeting, alleging Watson inquired if she would be alone before sprawling out naked on the massage table with just a small hand towel and repeatedly directing contact to the groin area and then penis.
It is Solis who testified she ended the meeting abruptly and cried in front of Watson, which Watson acknowledged under oath, describing Solis as “teary-eyed.” It is Solis who received an apologetic text message from Watson, but also one that Solis took as threatening should she speak up about the encounter.
“I know you have a career and a reputation,” Watson wrote. “And I know you would hate for someone to mess with yours, just like I don’t want anyone messing with mine.”
It is Solis on whom Buzbee is hoping the focus remains.
“Ashley Solis is one of the heroes of this story,” Buzbee wrote in a statement. “Her case has not settled and thus her story and that of the other three brave women will continue. I look forward to trying these cases in due course, consistent with other docket obligations and the court's schedule.”
In other words, the very compelling case of Ashley Solis remains and eventually the court will hear it, likely in 2023.
Watson can either figure out how to settle that one, or risk the NFL either delaying its disciplinary decision or being influenced out of fear of the headlines and potential details that will come if it ever reaches court. The league stated Tuesday that the settlements had “no impact on the collectively bargained disciplinary process," per spokesman Brian McCarthy.
The Watson situation will eventually go to former federal judge Sue L. Robinson to determine if a violation occurred. If Robinson believes there was one, then she would then recommend a punishment, although in the end it will be commissioner Roger Goodell, or a designee, making the final determination.
This is as much a public relations situation for the league as a player discipline one. As such, the NFL would understandably be concerned about levying a punishment that seems light if further details come out, or an actual trial occurs impacting public sentiment.
Or Goodell could put Watson on the commissioner's exempt list, which would place Watson on indefinite paid leave and an eventual ruling could come later.
As this has dragged on and a continued drip, drip, drip of details and lawsuits have emerged, the situation for Watson’s NFL future has grown more dire. Where a six- or eight-game suspension once seemed most likely, almost no one is ruling out an entire season now.
Financially, Watson would be only lightly impacted by the NFL's punishment. His Cleveland contract is structured to protect as much money as possible. His $45 million signing bonus can’t be touched, and his base pay of $1.035 million would be on a game-by-game basis.
Still, the 26-year-old Watson, after being held out by Houston for the 2021 season, doesn’t want to miss another entire season of his prime. And Cleveland, which has committed considerable monetary, draft pick and public relations assets to acquire Watson, doesn’t want to lose him for 2022 when it has a roster capable of competing for a Super Bowl.
Yet here we still are.
Yes, 20 of 24 cases are gone, the hurdle cleared by Watson. Yet the ones that remain are still potentially problematic, especially Solis.
“The case against Deshaun Watson started with one phone call, from one brave and strong woman,” Buzbee said in a statement.
You don't see many 'innocent guys' getting counseling and therapy as part of the settlement, do you? I'm glad he's going to get help with his addiction, but there it is. smh.
Sure you do. Business and government agencies have had many people take sensitivity training as standard procedure.
Not only that, but he remained deliberately vague (still pending cases). The only real specific he gave was about being ready to perform on the field.
Also, at the risk of angering some Board (or bored) Police folks, getting counseling for a sex issue (assumed this is what the counseling is for) doesn't necessarily mean he committed assault. He has a problem (so seeking treatment would be a positive), and it's still my belief that he fed an addiction by engaging masseuses as prostitutes (which I'm assuming is what one might do to not get caught up in TX prostitution laws), and at some point may or may not have slipped up or gone way too far.
The probability of both being true (him having a sex addiction/issue and him being innocent on the grounds of all incidents being consensual) is admittedly low, but still a possibility.
Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't need the counseling, I just find it odd that one week after once again saying he was innocent, he settled and agreed to get counseling. But if he was innocent and just wanting to CLEAR his name, why did he need counseling? The guy is a slimeball.
And I get the business side, the league being on him, the Browns pushing this, etc. Still does nothing to convince me he deserves to be our QB and play any time soon.
And one question about your saying it's still possible he's innocent; do you believe there is a remote chance that is true, honestly? I don't, and if he settles the rest, we will never have a chance to know. I can't accept that and am SO disappointed that this team put it's fans in this situation. Winning just isn't that important to us, or we wouldn't be Browns fans. The whole thing reeks of Haslam's desperation.
My point is counseling is a fairly new phenomenon that is simply required whether you need it or not.
How I feel about Baker does not impact how much I like Watson - not one iota. How I feel about Baker does not impact the allegations that were levied against Baker. How I feel about Baker *might* impact how I view the trade. But the trade - in my opinion - is a bust if DW is suspended for more than 10 games.
Despite liking Baker - the NFL is a business. When he played Watson was 'elite' at the most important position on the team. I can like Baker but embrace a new QB that is elite and gives the team a better chance to win a SB. But not one with 26 accusations that were levied against him. Who paid off a Spa owner's as if she was a pimp. A QB who already had a bad reputation with the team therapist for his conduct with therapists she booked. Who made therapists cry and acts like that's normal and nothing to do with him. Who shows zero remorse or empathy.
Never having been in a situation like Big Ben and Watson I can't say for sure what I would do, but I'd like to believe that if I knew I was innocent and being railroaded, that I would chose to fight rather than settle..
WTF kind of hard drugs did you all consume last night?
Just booze. My mother-in-law passed away and my wife was w/her up in PA. I should not have come on here while being wasted. I apologize for all my dumb-ass posts.
BOZAL CUISHE One of the most physically distinct species of agave, the Cuishe, a subspecies of the Karwinskii Family of agave, grows vertically as a single stalk with its leaves spreading at the top. Due to its unusual structure, and the stalk containing the firmer piña material, the Cuishe can be difficult to harvest and to work with in general. This agave offers aromas full of tropical fruit with a dry piney and mineral finish.
100% AGAVE KARWINSKII PUEBLO: SAN LUIS AMATLÁN, OAXACA PRODUCTION: ARTESANAL METHOD, COPPER POT STILL
On the steep precarious hillsides of Oaxaca, Guerrero and Durango varieties of agave, indigenous to the region, grow wild and are heavily sought after by the local mezcaleros. These varietals produce flavors that are exotically intense, with rich earth tones and savory smokiness. From the heart of the maguey these flavors are traditionally extracted to produce mezcal that is wildly refined. Because we at bozal believe that something wild produces a far richer spirit.
TASTE Driven by intense citrus and strong minerality, the Cuishe has a dry entry. As is experienced in the rich tropical fruit on the palate that moves to sweet potato on the front. Green vegetal notes in the mouth and a dry smoky finish then follow. A complex flavor profile that proves quite enjoyable.
WTF kind of hard drugs did you all consume last night?
Just booze. My mother-in-law passed away and my wife was w/her up in PA. I should not have come on here while being wasted. I apologize for all my dumb-ass posts.
Milk: No longer a Baker fan. Views on Watson changing day by day as more info becomes available.
Bull: Same, I think?????
Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, I have a bit of a buzz on and I apologize if I missed anyone who has been vocal.
Kind of. Baker is kind of that attractive woman you didn't like because she was kind of bitchy and didn't give you the time of day. Then she starts to give you attention and you convince yourself that, hey, she's an attractive woman, why not. Unfortunately, spend any time around her and you realize she's a vapid narcissist, and you can't get away fast enough. She's still an attractive woman, but you'd much rather have her be someone else's problem day to day while occasionally enjoying the view.
I'm still in the don't know what to think of Watson off the field because none of the information feels concrete or it can be interpreted multiple ways, and the majority of the coverage has a very witch hunty feel. All the on the field/team culture stuff sounds good. So, I hope he's innocent and try to see ways that that could be the case because I'm not the kind of fan that wants to be miserable and spread misery around.
You both basically asked for my answer to "so... what now?" If I got that wrong, let me know.
I'll try to lay this out as clearly as possible. There are lots of gut feelings driving this that make it hard to logically talk through. "I feel how I feel, and that's just how it is." I just can't say for sure if I can root for a team with a sexual predator in such a visible role. It's something I really don't have an answer for... I don't know how I'm going to feel Week1 (or whenever he takes the field). Many of the details that were included were REALLY bad. Disgusting. I never got any sort of satisfaction from seeing Pittsburgh drawn into the Big Ben rape controversy, but I DID think really hard to myself "man, I'm so glad we don't have any of THAT on my team". Anecdotally, I've heard there is a contingent of Squeeler fans who have an asterisk next to the seasons he played.
It's tough to figure out. I have a lot of conflicting feelings. I'll just say that I had a personal situation that kinda runs parallel to this, which is why I think I'm stewing over this so much. To one of Vers's points... I do understand that we're talking about a pro athlete here. No team, ever, was made up of choir boys (except maybe those Mangini teams, and we saw how that turned out). Like I said before, Ray Lewis has a statue, as does Jim Brown. Dan Snyder probably, when all is said and done, come away with all his stuff with a slap on the wrist. Jerry Jones (IIRC has similar allegations as Snyder) probably won't have to deal with anything at all. That WR that basically never knew a woman he didn't want to hit just got a bajillion dollars to play in Miami... and never really had to be accountable to what he did. It's not right, but the reality is that the bar is MUCH lower for pro athletes (NFL players, in particular). But that doesn't really clarify anything for me because I never had to cheer for those guys (usually cheered against them because of it).
Vers, Knowing more facts could've led to me believing his side of the story more. That's what I was hoping for.
"Knowing" what really went on was intersecting with a point on the graph known as "dumpster fire football team"; and I'll trade not knowing.
I don't need the gory details. Somewhere lost in the endless arguments between "but, but... a court of law..." and "22 women!!!" is a fact. I've said it many times, I'll say it again. Deshaun is a pervert. Plain and simple. And really, as the stories have unfolded, one of the biggest pigs in the (reported) history of the league. You don't really need to examine every case under a microscope to understand that.
As much as we all grew weary of Pit's "22 women!", he was 100% correct in one simple aspect... that doesn't happen by accident. It wasn't just a bandwagon. Regardless of any courts "decision" this lands squarely in the territory of "Houston, we have a problem".
Was he enabled? Maybe. Was he unclear that he was crossing boundaries? Maybe at the beginning. Was he clouded by the fact that many of these "sessions" resulted in him getting what he wanted? Good chance. Was he warned that things were getting out of hand? YES. Yet he continued.
Is he remorseful? We'll find out. Will time heal this wound? Time always does.
I've heard enough to know everything I need to know... #24 had me waving the white flag. It's not about "guilt" anymore, it's about what he does going forward. And truth be told, if his demeanor, beyond the timetable of the remaining litigation and suspension, is "I didn't do anything wrong"... there are not enough championships to make me respect him as a man.
Well said, and I do agree. Believe me, reading through these threads over the past few months, I was thinking to myself, "after 1-31, Holmgren, Mangini/Kokinis, Pettine/Farmer, the Shanny exit, the Manziel/Gordon/Kizer/Quinn v Anderson/etc sagas, is this really going to be the thing that breaks my fandom?" I'm still here after all that....
It would definitely help my feeling on the situation if he were to seek help and take his problem seriously. All reports prior to all this getting going was that he was an A+ human being.
Never having been in a situation like Big Ben and Watson I can't say for sure what I would do, but I'd like to believe that if I knew I was innocent and being railroaded, that I would chose to fight rather than settle..
Sometimes that is the smart thing to do, sometimes that is a dumb thing to do.
Of all the systems, I say being charged by a federal prosecutor results in more innocent people behind bars than anywhere else.
They simply work on deals. They don't want to try crap. Even if innocent, the circumstantial evidence against you leaves you with a decision of take 5 years, maybe out earlier, or go to trial where you might get a firm 20 years. It's easy to say you would take the risk, but would you??
In this case is there really a way to clear Watsons name. OJ was found not guilty and he never cleared his name. There are multiple others.
The system isn't set up for people to clear their name. The attorney for the plaintiff can paint any picture he or she wants before trial. Opinions in the public are made there. At some point people just want to get the nightmare over, guilty or not. Not to point at you so much, but your comment proves my point.
You also need to consider that cases like this usually aren't brought up because unless a lot of money is going to possibly be awarded, no attorney is going to take the case on contingency or pro bono. If it is just Joe Blow accused and it dies in or before criminal court, it never goes civil, it just goes away.
Report: Settlement talks between NFL, NFLPA, and Deshaun Watson “fell apart”
Posted by Mike Florio on June 23, 2022, 1:17 PM EDT link
Last week, we pointed out that a negotiated resolution of Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson‘s discipline was possible, but not likely. The problem was that Watson, as of last week, was determined to clear his name.
With Watson settling 20 of the 24 cases pending against him, that possibly will lay the foundation for a settlement between the league, the union, and Watson.
Josina Anderson of CBS Sports reports that negotiations have indeed occurred. However, talks “fell apart” regarding the extent of the punishment.
Negotiated discipline is not unprecedented. The outcome is announced as the punishment being final, with the player waiving his appeal rights.
Complicating matters for Watson is the fact that there’s no precedent for the new procedure that starts with the NFL proposing a punishment, continues with an independent Disciplinary Officer setting the discipline, if any, and the Commissioner having jurisdiction over any appeal from the player or the team. Unless the Disciplinary Officer decides to impose no discipline at all, Goodell gets the final crack at determining the punishment.
The best outcome for Watson would be to settle everything. Settle the lawsuits. Settle the discipline. Serve the suspension. And then come back, play good football, win games, stay out of trouble, and in time much of this incident will be forgotten. Just like it was for Ben Roethlisberger.
To be honest...I need to find out more about what exactly 'fell apart'.
The first question that came to me was about 'negotiating discipline' ... I thought I heard the NFL proclaim that the discipline imposed by the NFL is not part of the settlement discussions where it was announced that 20 of the 24 cases were to be settled.
Reading the article leaves me with the impression that the NFL has engaged in exactly what they said would do...it sure appears that the NFL is tying the settlement talks into the business deal of settling 20 of the 24 lawsuits against Watson. I did say that 'it appears' that the NFL is linking punishment/settlement talks together...and I will say, this is where I need more details about what exactly fell apart and why.
I could be wrong, but I am a good reader. Have an advanced degree in English. For those of you who don't know, English at that level has almost nothing to do w/grammar, punctuation, etc. It's about interpreting the written word across a plethora of genres.
Watson's comments read more like he has been under a lot of pressure due to the public scrutiny and the weight of the accusations he is facing. He wan't to ensure that he is at his best mentally and emotionally on the field of play and to help him deal w/the negative attention. It does not read as an admission of guilt no matter how much some wish it to be true.
Exactly. I have no idea how or why the conversation went in the direction it has if one actually reads what he said. And I'm quite certain anybody needs an advanced English degree to see that. Or at least they shouldn't. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm just saying in this case his words aren't that nuanced nor complicated to understand.
Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't need the counseling, I just find it odd that one week after once again saying he was innocent, he settled and agreed to get counseling. But if he was innocent and just wanting to CLEAR his name, why did he need counseling?
Did we even read the same statement from watson? NOTHING in his statement even hints that this counseling is related to sexual issues or that it's something he "agreed to". It actually indicated it was more about the stress and pressure he's been under with the lawsuits. I have no idea how you came up with such conclusions based on his statement. And if you look at it, it appears the counseling has been ongoing and isn't new.
His statement about getting counseling came before the settlement, not after.
Now you can say that he claimed he didn't need counseling, which he did. But the setting was in regards to him needing counseling surrounding and involving the sexual allegations. Which nothing in his statement claims he is doing.
Quote
"It's been a long year and half, I can say that," Watson said. "Personally, it's been tough. And since I came here and since I became a Cleveland Brown, I've been able to use all the resources that this organization has. I've been able to start using counseling and talking with someone just to make sure that my mental is straight so I can be prepared to walk on this field and be as sharp as I possibly can.
"And I'm going to continue to do that, be the best person and grow as an individual, grow as a human being, and just be able to be the best citizen, best person that I can be outside this field, and also when I walk out of this building, be the best teammate and player that I can be."
There were 13--14 other teams who wanted to "bring him in."
Only four teams made any serious attempts to "bring him in". Even you know that no matter what you are posting here. To be nice I'll call that deceitful at best.
Recent discussions over the length of the suspension that will be issued to Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson for violations of the NFL's personal conduct policy "fell apart," according to CBS Sports HQ's Josina Anderson.
Anderson reported the NFL, NFL Players Association and advisors for Watson were unable to reach an agreement over how many games he would be suspended.
Amid numerous allegations and 24 civil lawsuits accusing Watson of sexual assault or misconduct during massage therapy sessions, he missed the entire 2021 season with the Houston Texans. But the league has yet to render a final judgment after launching its own investigation into the allegations.
In May, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said the league was "nearing the end" of its inquiry. However, the New York Times' Jenny Vrentas reported on new allegations against Watson, a story that also implicated the Texans.
Per Vrentas, Watson said in a deposition he had alerted Houston's director of security, Brent Naccara, after a woman said she "could really expose you" in reference to the three-time Pro Bowler after he allegedly touched her and made unwanted sexual advances without her consent during massage sessions.
Watson said Naccara subsequently left a nondisclosure agreement in his locker, which he then began taking with him to massage appointments.
Per Vrentas, Watson also said in a deposition that the team had provided him with a membership to a private club and hotel where multiple massage therapy appointments were held and that membership was not in his name. One woman who had a massage appointment with Watson at the hotel said the room was under the name of a member of the Texans' training staff.
Vrentas' report led many to wonder whether the NFL's investigation would extend further or lengthen Watson's punishment.
The Washington Post's Mark Maske reported on June 17 the NFL believes Watson violated the league's personal conduct policy and should get a "significant" suspension. A season-long ban was cited as a possible outcome.
Mike Jones of USA Today also reported one year was the expected period of time.
Under the terms of the most recent collective bargaining agreement, the NFL cannot unilaterally hand down a suspension for Watson. An independent disciplinary officer—currently former district court judge Sue L. Robinson—weighs in as well, though the commissioner can amend the disciplinary officer's ruling when a suspension is deemed appropriate. Any suspension would also be eligible for appeal by the NFLPA.
"This first case being resolved under the new disciplinary system is a high-profile matter," Maske wrote. "A person on Watson’s side wondered whether Goodell might be reluctant to overturn the neutral arbitrator’s disciplinary ruling in the first case."
In the meantime, Watson has settled the majority of the civil lawsuits against him. Tony Buzbee, who represents the plaintiffs, said on Tuesday 20 of the 24 suits have been settled.
Exactly. I have no idea how or why the conversation went in the direction it has if one actually reads what he said. And I'm quite certain anybody needs an advanced English degree to see that. Or at least they shouldn't. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm just saying in this case his words aren't that nuanced nor complicated to understand.
I really, really doubt they are his words.... they are the words of hired help paid to improve his image by saying the right things. jmo but the odds are very strong.
Plese correct me if I am wrong. Also, I have a bit of a buzz on and I apologize if I missed anyone who has been vocal.
Consider yourself corrected. You refuse to admit that the reason everyone on your list objects to watson being the QB here is strictly due to the sexual allegations of 24 women. Most everyone on your list believes and has stated that watson is he better QB "on the field". I'm sure everyone on your list wants or wanted to see the Browns win a SB which the odds are certainly better with watson.
So according to your reasoning everyone on your list just hates watson and they're ire is because they love Baker?
Thanks to you and others who offered sympathies. You guys are kind. However, I don't want anymore of that. I feel bad for my wife and I drank too much. I just brought it up to apologize for my behavior last night. I was out of line. Hopefully, people can forgive and we can move on.
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Some of us realize that this stuff is not going away anytime soon.
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