DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What to do with Baker

Yep. Dirty, dirty Browns fans. Guess we're supposed to get on our knees and bow to Deshaun the savior, like some of our fans are.

I find it hilarious that Vers thinks he is of sufficient character to point out character flaws in others. You can't make this crap up!

^ I keep trying to figure out this generalization, but I can't be sure who you mean unless you elaborate.
Especially the long history part.
( "told what to think much?") I said to myself in a mirror.

I think baker asked to be traded after some idiot leaked to the press that the browns wanted an adult in the qb room. I would say that needed to be mended. If the nfl rules a season suspension for Watson, you know, I know and everybody else knows that we need to fix this relationship and get him on the field in tc. If the browns and baker’s agent sit down with baker he can see the huge advantages to playing with the browns. At the end of the season he can move on and can write his own ticket.

You appear to prefer that we go with an inferior qb and the season be done than do everything we can to repair the relationship and get a legit starter that gives us a real chance for the playoffs.

Just because he hates the first QB to win a playoff game for the browns in what, 30 years?

Just a general comment.

There seems to be enough smoke about a Baker trade to the Hawks or Panthers to make it seem real.

Any team that wants Bake as their QB would seemingly want him in for all of camp to have him ready to go by seasons start. That leads me to think something will get done in the next several weeks. It also doesn't hurt that there seems to be two teams who have interest.

I am not going to try to guess what we might get or how much of Bakers contract we will have to absorb, but if there are 2 teams with interest, that will help on both fronts. Bakers salary is already factored in to the cap for this year, so I don't really care how much we end up paying, we will still save something, assuming we don't pay it all.

As for a pick, I don't know, but with a couple of teams with interest, it probably won't be totally bottom of the barrel. If i was berry, I might seek a conditional pick based on how Baker plays or if the team signs him to an extension.

j/c

I'm really struggling to get my mind around the likelihood that DW will not play a snap in '22...the FO+ will 'roll' with Brissett and try to make us feel good about that...then we trade the best available QB on our roster for a cookie and maybe a Drew Lock.

What sucks about this whole situation, is that this team is built to win now. if we have to wait another year or 2 to see DW play, will we have a team that can go all the way still?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=e373a43a5a8541cbae5ab4a636b9a53c

Very disturbing fact about Jimmy G's ability to throw long. To think that this would be considered an upgrade - not!

Quoted for truth. Only not the way you intended it.

You mean that isn't the right party?

Here's the funny part. Watson demanded a trade in Houston. Then you have all of the sexual allegations on top of it. It seems the whole glass houses and throwing stones analogy applies quite well here.

That will remain a question most will ask but the reality is that as soon as next year, the players on the team with contracts already exceed the planned salary cap for next year. The Browns have 8 free agents next year and it is going to take some good cap manipulation for the team to keep all those players or even think about any FA's. In 2024, the situation becomes worst. You can only kick the can down the road so long before it affects your ability to keep your good players. We got a brief taste of it this year with the release of Tretter and Landry. Expect even more cap moves in the next 2-5 years from kicking the can down the road.

If Watson is suspended for 10 games or more, the contract year will toll.

Current 5-year(not 4-year) contract runs 2022-2026. If he is suspended for the 2022 season, then his contract rights are extended to 2027. That's another thing to start talking about. If a complete suspension occurs, I believe his 2022 $1,035,000 salary will be the same in 2023. So, we will have an extra $45M in salary cap in 2023 that we aren't currently accounting for.

I hate the Deshaun Watson signing from a personal standpoint, but if he can get his act together, make reparations and get back into football shape after two years away from the game. The Browns are better off with a full year suspension, then make a run in 2023, rather than hoping Watson gets 7-9 games in 2022. Missing 7-9 games, with Brissett at the helm, most likely takes us out of playoff contention.

Thinking about cap situations in the future, just bear in mind. All future considerations are based on current cap availability. The expected growth over the next 4 years due to new tv contracts is 8-10% per year, plus any cap carry over, which the Browns currently have $41M, without any Baker Mayfield relief. I expect they might still make another signing or two that could chop some of that off, but the Browns aren't currently in cap hell for 2023.

8-10% in 2023, 10% would add $21,770,000 to the current cap
8-10% in 2024, 10% would add ANOTHER $23,947,000 to the 2023 cap or $45,717,000 to the current cap.

It is strange. Baker is condemned for requesting a trade and sitting himself out for the final game of the injury plagued season. Deshaun requested a trade and left his team without a quarterback for an entire season and not a peep about his integrity and loyalty. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Extremely correct, and accurate.

You are free to follow Baker to his new team if you think the Browns and Watson are such scum bags. No one will stop you. Rooting for a team is not slavery and you are not an indentured servant. Likewise, I will root for whom I want to root for and you can't shame into thinking otherwise.

True, however, you guys are neglecting to mention one very important point.

Clowney said he's a good dude.

He made a factual statement. Period. Only in your eyes does his stating FACT means he's a Baker fan.

Strangely, you were neither thought of nor mentioned in my post. Get over yourself! I don’t give a flyin crapola what you do or don’t do.

You still confused how things get off topic and into personal attacks? Or you clear on it now?

There you go trying to silence him again! Once again, I didn't think purple was needed to show the sarcasm.

But you know, telling you that you can go root for another team, well that's different.

No. Where was the personal attack?

Pretty much the same place it is when you claim it happens to you.

I think I'm going to be quite upset if DW is out for the year...Brissett is the starter with Dobbs as #2...AND Baker is dumped. They need to figure this out as you stated. If Baker wants paid, all he has to do is show up. The ball is in the court of the FO. If they can get themselves to tell him to come back...he will. He isn't walking away from nearly $19MM. The FO does not need to double-down on mistakes with QBs. If they can't turn Baker into someone who can reasonably compete with Brissett or get Baker back for the last year on a roster thought to be SB-worthy...then they should immediately be on the hottest of hot seats.

With the NFL being Not-For-Long a self-inflicted, lost year is an eternity...especially with the roster they think they have at the moment.

I'm surprised through all this that Baker Mayfield has had such a loyal following from the fanbase
He's not even in the top 5 of the all time Brown QBs.
He is a serviceable QB. Very streaky.
For a 1st RD pick overall, he failed to deliver at the end of the day

It is my opinion that some people can't admit they are wrong or they were so hopeful that they can't see the truth. There is a ton of evidence that proves he is a bottom tier starting qb. The immaturity issues are real. The lack of accountability and blaming others is not what a leader does. The fact that other qbs were chosen over him and that he still hasn't been traded for is even crazier than I thought. His fans will keep on trashing anyone who points out the truth. Hopefully, that will die down once some other team takes a chance on him.

Willie you hit on the two key points. First, without question Baker is our best qb…by far. Second, even tho he is a quality starter we will virtually give him away. Put those two facts together and it makes no sense to make a move right now. Especially since we will be paying a large part of his salary. Hang on to him.

However, I think we need to do more than that. I know several have made the point that baker has burned bridges here. I am actually not sure who lit the match, but any burned bridge can be replaced, any hurt feeling can be salved. We just have to see clearly our goal of winning this year and set about to do it. And convince Baker that it is in his self interest to play with the Browns.

Our players will welcome baker because they want to win and he gives us the best chance. Any coach who feelings are hurt should get over it and put the team first. Is this going to be difficult?? Heck yes. Things that are worthwhile often are. We just need to work hard at it for the guy or of the team!

j/c

Where does Stefanski sit in all this? After all, Watsun pouted because he wasn't involved in picking the coach in Texas, and sat out a year.

Watson didn't pick Stefanski, either - he picked money. Guaranteed. How long will it be till he demands a new coach here?

Just questions.

arch, while that is in Pit's sig........Watson did not leave because he wanted to pick the coach. I posted numerous articles on the real reasons that led him to sit out.

Actually, overthecap.com projects the planned cap for 2023 at 225M which is adding $21,766,067 to the 2022 cap. As of today, the Browns cap liabilities for 2023 is $256,824,672 which is $31,824,672 over the planned projected cap. Currently, the Browns have $42,091,718 to use for carryover to 2023 if they make no more moves this year. That currently leaves the Browns with $10,267,046 left to address their 20 UFA's, 3 RFA's, 16 ERFA's, the 2023 draft and any eligilble FA's from another team.

2023 Unrestricted Browns Free Agents (20)
Baker Mayfield (UFA) Age: 28 (5), Chris Hubbard (UFA) Age: 32 (9), Ronnie Harrison (UFA) Age: 26 (5), Ethan Pocic (UFA) Age: 28 (6), Stephen Weatherly (UFA) Age: 29 (7), Kareem Hunt (UFA) Age: 28 (6),
Taven Bryan (UFA) Age: 27 (5), Isaac Rochell (UFA) Age: 28 (5), Jacoby Brissett (UFA) Age: 31 (7), Greedy Williams (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Chase Winovich (UFA) Age: 28 (4), Sheldon Day (UFA) Age: 29 (6),
Sione Takitaki (UFA) Age: 28 (4), Javon Wims (UFA) Age: 29 (4), Charley Hughlett (UFA) Age: 33 (8), D'ernest Johnson (UFA) Age: 27 (4), Dakota Allen (UFA) Age: 28 (4), Hjalte Froholdt (UFA) Age: 27 (4),
John Kelly (UFA) Age: 27 (4), Joshua Dobbs (UFA) Age: 28 (6)

2023 Restricted Browns Free Agents (3)
Joseph Charlton (RFA) Age: 26 (3), Michael Dunn (RFA) Age: 29 (3), Reggie Robinson (RFA) Age: 26 (3)

2023 Browns ERFA (16)
ERFAs are veteran free agents who have yet to accrue three seasons in the NFL. Instead of becoming an unrestricted free agent that can sign with any team, their original team holds exclusive negotiating rights.
Blake Hance (ERFA) Age: 27 (2), A.J. Green (ERFA) Age: 25 (2), Ja'Marcus Bradley (ERFA) Age: 27 (2), Parnell Motley (ERFA) Age: 26 (2), Herb Miller (ERFA) Age: 26 (1), Johnny Stanton (ERFA) Age: 29 (2),
Nate Meadors (ERFA) Age: 26 (1), Miller Forristall (ERFA) Age: 25 (2), Curtis Weaver (ERFA) Age: 25 (2), Nakia Griffin-Stewart (ERFA) Age: 27 (1), Elijah Nkansah (ERFA) Age: 29 (1), Alex Taylor (ERFA) Age: 26 (1),
Perrion Winfrey (ERFA) Age: 23 (1), Willie Harvey (ERFA) Age: 27 (2), Luther Kirk (ERFA) Age: 27 (1), David Moore (ERFA) Age: (1)

In 2024, overthecap.com projects the planned cap to be 256M which is adding 31M to the 2023 cap number. As of today, the Browns cap liabilities for 2024 is $255,529,954 which is $470,046 under the planned projected cap. That would leave the Browns with $470,046 (not including any carry over) to address their own FA's, the draft, and adding any FA's from other teams. The Browns currently have 9 players schedule to be Unrestricted Free Agents in 2024:

RFA (9)
Jedrick Wills (UFA) Age: 25 (4), Donovan Peoples-Jones (UFA) Age: 25 (4), Harrison Bryant (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Jordan Elliott (UFA) Age: 27 (4), Grant Delpit (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Corey Bojorquez (UFA) Age: 28 (6),
Jacob Phillips (UFA) Age: 25 (4), Nick Harris (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Drew Forbes (UFA) Age: 27 (5)

Now I'm confident that Berry will work this out one way or another but expect to see some major changes coming to the makeup of the team over the next 2-years. One of the issues I see going forward is the number of players that Berry is spreading bonus pay into void years. Not that many yet but it appears like he's using this to keep kicking the can down the road. Conklin has cap bonus charge for 2023 of 3M. Anthony Walker Jr has a $593,000 charge in 2023, Clowney has a 1.6M charge in 2023, and Hooper 7.5M in dead cap. In 2024, the Browns have bonus cap charges for Conklin 3M, Clowney 1.6M, John Johnson 3.75M, Anthony Walker Jr $593,000.

It is amazing between the two of you , you still cannot figure it out. Hatred clouds the vision and clogs the brain cells. Nobody, and I mean noooooobody is declare baker a better qb than Watson. Some are repulsed by Watson ‘s personal issues but no one denies he is the better qb on the field. But right now it does not look like deshaun is an option for the coming year. So the folks you are condemning are simply saying baker is the best choice of what we have available to us. Unless the hatred is totally clouding your vision you know that to be true.

The difference between the vast majority of browns fans and you two and a couple of others is that most want us to put our best qb out there and try our best to make something of the season and you two are willing to play an inferior qb and wash the season down the drain. Why?? Because you hate baker. So sad!!

"Strangely, you were neither thought of nor mentioned in my post. Get over yourself! I don’t give a flyin crapola what you do or don’t do."

Sound familiar?

Actually my response referred to the vast majority of browns fans, not me. So, take another whack at it. I give you credit you are the master of the non responsive response.

I don't need another "whack" at it. I think Baker is a poor qb and is emotionally immature. I think that is why the Browns did not extend him after his "good" year last year. I think that is why Houston didn't take him as part of the trade. I think that is why teams have passed on him thus far. I think that is why so many former NFL players feel the same way I do about him. Nothing said on a message board changes that.

So, paraphrase why Watson sat out. Thanks.

Wasn't it because Houston was a complete ish-show? They were trading away anyone worth a damn for peanuts. BoB was running the roster into the ground, and the President of football ops (IIRC), the guy that was pretty much universally hated, overruled the results of an executive search to hire his buddy as the GM. Then they hired the most underwhelming guy in NFL history to be their HC.

The team was a dumpster fire. Now you can argue the merits of requesting a trade under these circumstances, but it's counterproductive to the convo to pretend they aren't there.