This thread isn't intended to discuss Baker's past performances and argue about how good or bad he is. It's about what are the Browns going to do about him? This topic is big news on national sports shows because of how uncertain things are w/Baker and the Browns. One former player on a morning show today mentioned that the Browns should move Baker before Jimmy G is able to start throwing again, which is about a month from happening. Here are some options and you can add others that come to your mind.

--Release Baker. Pay him his money and let him sign somewhere else in order to prevent possible distractions once camp opens.

--Eat most of Baker's salary and trade him for a late round draft pick.

--Keep Baker and fine him if he doesn't show up for TC.

--Keep Baker and excuse him from TC while hoping someone will come calling w/a trade proposal.

--Make Baker our starter because we made a mistake in going after Watson.

--Hold on to Baker and hope a QB goes down during TC or early next season.

--Keep Baker and excuse him from all team activities and then receive a compensatory pick next year when he leaves after his contract expires.

I think some of these options are absurd. Others are okay. There are others I prefer more than most. I'd rather hear from you guys first before I chime in w/my opinions.

PS: Feel free to add other options that may have slipped my mind or I haven't even thought of.

Everything that happens with Baker is controlled by the Browns front office and ownership...has been since the Browns convinced themselves that Watson, with all his sexual misconduct allegations deserved to be the highest paid QB in the NFL.

It's entirely up to Haslam, Depodesta and Berry to find the solution...

I could wrong for sure on this.

The way I see this is trying to put myself in Berry's shoes. I don't know Baker and have never been in the Browns locker room. I dislike a lot of what I read in regards to things about his personality and character. All of it is second hand and I believe unreliable information.

From Berry's perspective I don't believe he needs to do a thing. The Browns have brought in three quarterbacks and Baker is not in their plans for the team.
They should excuse him from team activities. Baker can work out on his own away from the team.

Something will come up and Baker is good enough of a quarterback to start for a number of teams. Seattle Drew Lock and Gino? They can say they like what they have. It will be fools gold when they really see it.

Carolina, Saints, Giants, Bucs, Atl, those teams are not in a good place at quarterback. After four games any of them could be calling.

Camps are protective of injury but it can still happen. Winston is limping. Brady is old. Things can happen.

Berry should get the best deal he can. If it ends up they pay him for the season and he remains on the roster. So be it. They get a compensatory.

In my mind he is worth a fourth and the Browns should not have to eat his money. If, however, they were offered a third or fourth and to close the deal eat half. then pull the string.

The Giants first four games:

Titans, Panthers, Cowboys, Bears. Daboll will find out Jones is not the answer.

I really do not understand how they open the door of this season and say he is our guy. He has been terrible.

The past is the past. Unless someone finally comes up with that time machine, it's pointless to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-hash Baker's last 2 seasons.

I feel like I'm in a dwindling minority on this take, but I do think Baker is a 'good' QB and, therefore, has real value on the open market. I don't understand how Baker can go through the same off-season with diddly in terms of trade movement and Carson Wentz got his previous team draft picks.

I think Berry hanging onto him is reflective of the value he thinks Baker does, in fact, have. If nothing else, cutting Baker does absolutely diddly for the team... so might as well hang onto him in case a team picks up an injury and is desperate. I think Berry thinks extremely pragmatically, and people's (Bakers as well as the team at large) feelings really don't figure much into his decision-making, and so I'd be really surprised if Berry is losing any sleep over the lockerroom effects of Baker remaining on the roster as a lame-duck QB.

I think, with the rumblings of teams being interested but nothing significant ever materializing, that teams don't want to give up draft picks AND take on a bunch of his salary. I think this is also compounded with Baker's injury and lengthy rehab. Teams might want to actually see him looking good post-op before 'talking numbers'.

Speaking of injury, I'll be surprised if the team does NOT excuse Baker from mandatory activities. There's nothing gained from having him there, and he'll probably be limited anyway, depending on how his rehab is going.

I'm not sure this is the answer, but it is the only bargaining chip left. I'm not sure how comp picks work, but I keep reading "probably a 3rd rounder for Baker" as compensation.

So, from an investment standpoint... anything less than a 3rd rounder means I'm sacrificing value for time... and it means I'm paying 18M for a third round pick. Personally, I'm NOT letting him go for less than a 4th unless the other team is absorbing nearly all of his salary.

In other words, they get Baker with 10M of his salary paid, I get a 4th round pick. If they want Baker for a 5th, they're absorbing nearly all of his salary. If they offer a third, I'll pay the entire salary.

His market goes up as soon as the first QB goes down... it gets higher as more fall by the wayside. The risk for any team "kicking it around" and waiting for me to bend, is that market could easily become a 2nd pick with no salary relief as soon as three teams are in need of a QB. Especially if any had a strong start to their season before their QB was injured.

The new CBA requires a team to fine the player for a missed mandatory off season training camp. No longer can teams reduce or waive the fine. Baker would have to be ok with being fined $50k per day. Jake Trotter discussed this on the radio the other day.

I believe the only way to keep Baker away from mandatory team activities would be to put him on the PUP list, assuming he's not cleared to perform.

June 14th-16th is the first mandatory minicamp.

MY 2 cents after a comment about what I heard yesterday. I was listening to a Dayton Ohio ESPN radio segment hosted by a Browns fan. He was discussing the Saints' supposed interest in Baker. I don't think the guy even realized it but he sure sounded as if he was contradicting himself.

He stated the Saints should insist the Browns pay most of Baker's salary and only give up a mid-late round draft pick because the Browns have no leverage. Then he goes on to say that Baker would be the 6th best QB in the NFC and would elevate an average team to a playoff team. How can a QB who can elevate a team to the playoffs be essentially worth nothing? $18 mill is not much for a QB that can do that.

Anyway, my opinion is that Baker is a decent QB. I see no reason to cut him as you have to pay his salary anyway. Keep him on the roster, at least for now. They are in no way rushed. I would actually let him know he is expected to show up for work just like anyone else. The amount of practice and training camp reps are irrelevant. Make it very few if you want.

I have no idea if you fine him for not showing up but to me Baker is a fool is he doesn't. If he really wants another team to take a chance on him, not showing up is a horrible way to reflect that. Also, if he would assist a trade he could get working with another team and develop some kind of relationship. He should also realize that 2023 is expected to be a very deep QB draft and jobs will be less available. I know that is not certain, but he might want to take that into account.


I would not accept a late pick and at the same time pay 75% of his salary. That is nuts. Your paying his salary regardless, why settle?

Again, just my opinion.

Watson is the new QB of the Cleveland Browns - no question. I just thought that I'd post the facts that a few haters on this forum continue to distort. The constant bashing of Mayfield and distortion of the facts are the exact same childish immature acts some accuse Mayfield of doing.

Mayfield has exuded confidence in his ability to adjust to another new situation.

"I feel disrespected 100% because I was told one thing and they completely did another," Mayfield said on the "You Never Know" podcast on April 13. "That's what I'm in the middle of right now. And you know what? OK. I got my taste of it because I've had four different head coaches in four years, a bunch of different coordinators. I've had the highs, and they always come back."

His faith in his ability to persevere isn't entirely unfounded. Mayfield is only the fourth QB since 1950 to play under three different full-time head coaches in his first three career NFL seasons (minimum 20 starts). He is the only one of those quarterbacks to win the majority of his starts in that constant state of transition, as he played under Hue Jackson in 2018, Greg Williams (interim) in 2018, Freddie Kitchens in 2019 and Kevin Stefanski since 2020.


QBs with 3 different head coaches in first 3 seasons*

PLAYER_________TEAM (SEASONS)___________RECORD
Baker Mayfield____Browns (2018-20)___________23-22
Brandon Weeden__Browns/Cowboys (2012-14)____5-16
Blaine Gabbert____Jaguars (2011-13)___________5-22
Dennis Shaw______Bills (1970-72)_____________8-27-2

Since 1950. Minimum 20 starts. Excludes interim head coaches.

Despite those uniquely trying circumstances, Mayfield has been the Browns' most prolific passer through the first four seasons of any player's career with the team, throwing for the most yards (14,125) and touchdowns (92) -- Bernie Kosar (1985-88) ranks second in passing yards, and Pro Football Hall of Famer Otto Graham (1946-49) ranks second in passing TDs.

Mayfield's production took a step back in 2021 as he played through a torn labrum in his left, non-throwing shoulder and missed three games -- while his supporting cast also got hit with injuries, including running back Nick Chubb (out 3 games), running back Kareem Hunt (9 games), wide receiver Jarvis Landry (5 games), tight end Njoku (1 game), tight end Hooper (1 game), center Tretter (1 game), left tackle Jedrick Wills (4 games) right tackle Jack Conklin (10 games), and wide receiver OBJ (2 of the 8 games he was on the team) and that's just the starters. Peoples-Jones (3 games), Hubbard (16 games) missed games as primary backups or starters in addition to the previous 9 starters. In fact, the only position not hit with injury in 2021 was offensive guard where Bitonio and Teller started every game. Browns quarterbacks were under pressure on 26.9 percent of their drop-backs in 2020, the fifth-smallest rate in the NFL. That number increased to 30.5 percent in 2021, the ninth-smallest rate in the NFL. Since 2020, no quarterback's passer rating improved when they were under more pressure than their prior season. So, between his injury, his teammates' injuries and less time to throw, life under center was significantly more challenging for Mayfield last season.

Mayfield most looks like a top-10 quarterback when utilizing play-action, performing like one in 2020 when opposing defenses had to account for healthier versions of him, Chubb, Hunt, Landry and his offensive line. Running play-action passes allows quarterbacks to streamline their scanning of the field by giving them only two or three routes to choose from, and the threat of running the ball slows down the pass rush, which provides the quarterback more space in the pocket. Since one of Mayfield's bigger weaknesses is his stature (standing 6-foot-1 is on the shorter end for an NFL quarterback), his reliance on play-action makes a lot of sense. Here's a look at how he's fared in play-action since Stefanski took over in 2020:


____________________________2020 RANK_______2021 RANK
Play action Pass percentage______28.7% (8th)_______24.3% (19th)

Yards per attempt_______________9.5 (7th)________10.0 (2nd)

Passing TD-INT________________12-1 (6th)________6-4 (T-23rd)

Passer rating_________________121.9 (5th)_______102.1 (17th)

Having less time to operate in 2021, Stefanski and the Browns reduced the usage of Mayfield's play-action game for quicker-developing screen passes. The number of screens nearly doubled to 66, the 16th-most in the NFL, after only calling 39 screen pass attempts in 2020, which was tied for the sixth-fewest in the NFL that season. Mayfield led the NFL with 8.8 yards per screen pass attempt in 2021, and his 7.3 yards per screen pass attempt was the third-most in 2020. Neither led to as many fireworks for Mayfield and the Browns as play-action, as he only threw one passing touchdown on a screen over the last two seasons, a 33-yarder to rookie running back Demetric Felton in Week 2 against the Houston Texans last season.

According to the stats and haters on this forum, the Browns should have dumped Graham and Kosar after their first 4-years for performing poorer than Mayfield has in his first 4-years. That's been the problem with Cleveland for almost 3 decades now, they never allow a QB to grow even if he's the best they have ever had at this point in their career. The Browns hopefully have their franchise QB now in Watson. The hope going forward is he hasn't come to Cleveland to die as OBJ stated happens to players that come here. Good luck to Baker wherever he may end up.

If Baker is cleared by his doctors, he's going to show up to insure he continues being paid. But I would not be surprised to see the Browns try to keep Baker off the field, not wanting to risk the possibility of injury while practicing.

If the Browns do not make some kind of agreement with Baker about mandatory training camp, we could see the Union become involved. Baker is simply waiting for the Browns front office to do their job while doing what is necessary to insure the Browns live up to the contract they signed with Baker.

I agree with you, FORT. If we pay most of his salary (I have seen "reports" stating that we would have to pay anywhere from 75% - 90%) then it makes no sense. Keep him, pay the entire amount, and then get a comp pick (it has been said a 3rd, which from what I gather no one has come close to offering). If we do trade him while picking up most of his salary, then we are not saving much with regards to the cap, just the piddly amount we did not pay.

I absolutely think that he has a place in the NFL and there are a handful of teams he could start for now. This is assuming a full recovery from his injury, which I have no doubts that he will fully recover.

But, getting to the original question, I see one of two things:

A) We keep him for the year, eat the 19M. He is never active. He moves on after the season and we get a comp pick.
B) Some team for which Baker would be an upgrade finally realizes that Cleveland is not backed into a corner and will neither cut him or pay a chunk of the salary in order to facilitate a trade. And this team also realizes that upgrading their QB is more important than showing solidarity with teams that are settled at the position. This team and Cleveland come to an agreement on the trade that is acceptable to both sides. Maybe this is a team with playoff expectations who lose their QB to injury?

Option A does not hurt the Browns, as some other teams may think. It does, however, hurt Baker. I have no desire to see that. I would like for this chapter to be done, but I do not want my team to have to bend over in order to make it happen.

Baker has the chips.
Watson has the money.
The Browns have...hope? a plan? a secret?

The topic was clearly defined. What to do with Baker?

His performance is not in question it is now a matter of record. Each person can say what they will about him as a player.

That has been done to the point of nauseam.

Maybe I read someone who was wrong - maybe I am mis-remembering - but I feel sure someone indicated that if Baker sits for a season he isn't eligible for a compensatory pick. We have a lot of educated posters - can someone verify / confirm the situation?

JMHO, I'd keep Baker, excuse him/ tell him NOT to come to training camp, wait for training camp or let season start- eat as much of his salary as needed to get most value for him....18mil is GONE, so getting any of it back makes sense....BUT don't get greedy. Go Browns!

Agreed - that would be good. I have seen on here that we could a 3rd round comp, and I have seen others say they were not sure. The answer to that would bring some clarity to the situation.

At this point I think there is no good answer. Keeping Baker will only add to the many distractions that already can not be avoided. I don't see that as a good answer. As it is the noise will never be drowned out on the narrative the Browns are already facing. Increasing that noise with all the added Baker drama the team has the choice to opt out of only further complicates things.

If you ignore all of that entirely, I guess you could keep him on the roster but away from the team and end up paying 18.8 million dollars for a third round compensation draft pick. From a strictly bottom line, money and return on investment standpoint that may be the best option.

I don't see anything I would consider a good solution. But as I said at the time, this FO isn't stupid. They knew the predicament trading for watson would create from every angle. Including being on the hook for Baker's 18.8 million. That money was factored into the watson deal from the very beginning. One might say it was Baked into the deal. Or one might not say that.

Keep him. Pay him to sit home. Collect the 3rd round pick next year.

There's a couple of problems with the Browns keeping Mayfield.

No one on this forum knows how many Browns players are really supporters of Mayfield. If Watson is the QB and Mayfield is gone, it stands to reason the team will support Watson outside of those who have issues with his off the field issues. With Mayfield still on the team, at a minimum you would get a split locker room. That would be bad for the team.

Another issue is the pending NFL suspension of Watson. Having Mayfield on the team with Watson suspended and then playing Brissett instead of Mayfield will again divide the locker room. The players will be questioning why the team isn't playing their best option at QB. The fans will be booing their azzes off either watching Mayfield sitting on the sidelines or worst yet being told to stay away.

Putting Mayfield on the PUP list creates trade issues. The longer he remains on the PUP list the less likely teams are going to pursue him. Any trade will depend on Mayfield passing a medical review from the trading teams doctors. If the Browns want value, then Mayfield has to be healthy. That would mean he has to be practicing which again will cause division in the locker room.

I'm pretty sure that teams will take a chance on Baker - no question. The question is how much turmoil are the Browns going to have holding on to him trying to squeeze the dollars out? If Watson gets suspended for more than 10-12 games before the Browns deal Mayfield - IMHO, the $hit will hit the fan in the locker room and with the fan base because they will expect Mayfield to be playing.

Best bet is to eat the salary and get Mayfield off the roster well before Watson's suspension gets announced.

And playing a healthy Mayfield if watson is suspended, presuming Mayfield plays like he did during the last half of 2020 and before his injury in 2021, it will make fans and the rest of the NFL wonder if the Browns made the right move in trading for a suspended watson. And the bet goes on.

Could you just imagine what would happen if watson is suspended and Baker leads us to the playoffs again? What a mess that would be for this FO.

Some good posts thus far and mostly on topic. Maybe someone can start another Baker thread that deal w/how good he is as a player. I want this one to deal w/what do you think the Browns should do w/him moving forward.

A couple of things: Milk's post about teams no longer being able to waive or reduce fines for Training Camp threw me for a loop. I looked it up and he is correct. They can do those things for Mini Camp, but not Training Camp. That throws a wrench into my preference. I now need more time to think about this.

888 asked a good question about whether or not we could receive a 3rd round compensatory pick if Baker sat all year and we paid his salary. I thought I read we could, but that question needs answered. Milk and cfrs are very knowledgeable about such things.

I did not know this. Thank you for pointing this out. This is an added wrinkle to the conversation, for sure.

So say what they should do but say nothing about the possible consequences those actions might lead to? Got it. lmao

I would be surprised if a team is not allowed to excuse a player... i.e. make it non-mandatory for them.

For the compensatory pick... he would be a drafted player who leaves in free agency, and the value of his expiring contract, and the size of what his new one is almost certain to be, nearly assures us of a 3rd round pick. I don't think any of us have the actual formulas used (though that one fan of Pittsburgh figured it out pretty well), but that's basically what it amounts to. To my knowledge, him sitting a year has no impact on the compensatory formula since he won't be sitting due to suspension or injury or whatever... he will be carried on the active roster, but simply asked to not show up.

Bring Baker back considering all we have is Jacoby Biscuit.

That is my understanding, as well. However, I have almost no knowledge about that part of the game.

Btw----to the board---I never once said to not mention consequences. I was talking about how good or bad Baker is as a player. We can have another thread about that. Of course the consequences of whatever decision is made is a huge talking point. The nonsense never ends. Always trying to create trouble.

I believe that if he is on the roster for the season, he accrues his extra year and the Browns could receive a compensatory. I believe that if he holds out for the year, he gets fined and doesn't accrue a season and he's essentially on the Browns next season unless we cut him. If he's on any of the different lists (PUP, IR, etc...), I'm sure of.

I may be wrong with the above, but I think that's how it works.

I prefer Jacoby Brisket.

[quote=PrplPplEater]I would be surprised if a team is not allowed to excuse a player... i.e. make it non-mandatory for them.

That was something I had wondered about. It only makes sense that the team would have the option to not request a player be in team activities if they so choose. Or even go so far as request they not show up for any team activities.

and the only way this goes down is with Baker on the active roster, but with his presence excused.

He'd count as part of the 53, he'd accrue his season, and we'd get a Comp Pick..... which sets the floor for all trades.

Think you might be about right.... Maybe the comp pick is only if he's on our active roster. Or something like that.... Stashing him on PUP might not earn the comp pick?

Someone smart will be along soon to verify

At some point before the season Baker will be traded. We will eat a portion of his contract.

It's asking the wrong question. ...
Let me say, yesterday I went back and listened to some of Mary Kay's podcasts from January 5, January 15, Janurary 16, and January 17th of 2022 on the subject, they were all, on ... well the subject of all of them ( as I encourage others to listen for reference) the subject of all of them, leads me to believe the Browns, well they didn't give Baker a fair shake imo, change for changes' sake.
And #2, they constantly, well they are parroting a wrong way of thinking the phrase, more bites at the apple, it's nonsense.
It's not nonsense, if you have nothing, nothing on your team, but when you have something on your team, you don't abuse your things development in the quest ( hey my q and 1 keys worked, must have dehumidified the keyboard)
.. You don't abuse your own players development in the quest to find more players whose development program may have started, (talking about the very start of the process, started at an inncy tinncy slightestly better level, seeking more bites of an apple, AFTER YOU ALREADY GOT YOUR GOOD APPLE BITE!
I mean, what are the Browns, ... Oh my Gosh! They are the,, They are never letting a seed grow, never let a seed sprout because they are constantly digging up the ground, ( day after day, not even a month) but day by day, digging up the ground to put down new seeds.

The Browns are, putting a cake in the oven for 2 minutes, pull it out, ... the cake is still wet, that sucks, that cake sucks I bet if we got a better cake brand we could put it in the oven for 2 minutes and get an award winning cake to eat like all the other NFL Franchises,
and then they don't even know what the ............######### they are doing wrong!!!!!!!

I mean, the question more should be, What to do with the Browns Coaching, GM, and dumbellery of analytics' ways of thinking.

It's too late to properly do with Mayfield what they should have done, which was re-sign him/ extend him to a 35-40 mill per year extension.
It's becoming too late to properly part with him for correct compensation, which is at least a 1 and a 2.

But! the Browns guardrails are ruining the Browns, and I'm quite confident history will inevitably prove out that statement with the evidence of time.

I mean, what were the blasted, hated bungles last year, of nothing else, they did it traditionally traditionally, they followed the traditional route. And what do I mean by traditional?
arrgh, ... cuss! There is so much history, so much evidence over decades, ... certain traditional things, things like
using your own guys,
Guys 28-30 years old, the NFL is not a 24 year olds league. The traditional approach to the dbs.
the traditional approach to developing your own group over time, keeping the team together, ... < in large regards to their defense.

The Browns
The Browns think they can assemble some, some, some 1988 nba Olympic dream team of stars who never played side by side and think it's going to work against NFL competition that has had time to have continuity and get together as groups.
And it doesn't work
and anyone / everyone already knew it wouldn't, because, oh I dunno, HISTORY, History of 50 years of the nfl.

The Browns are committed to being a hodge podge patchwork, and it's not going to work,
So the question is not what to do with Baker,
It's how do we get beyond these folks who are so blind to not see the real football because of their flawed analytics.
Or as Mac rightly proposed months ago.
Analytics? Had enough yet? Yes! stop it, go to traditional football and keeping a team together , for once, before I die.

I'd wait till a starting QB goes down and then trade him.
Hold on until the demand increases
Right now there is very little demand for him obviously
I don't understand why the Browns and Baker can't come to a compromise
The Browns tell Baker to take 10 million instead of 18 and they release him
Baker then can go to a team and learn their playbook and compete for a
Starting job .

The Browns have no leverage now. If they hold onto Mayfield until the season nears that might change so I would hold onto him until a team needs him up until the trade deadline. If no one comes knocking by then I would let him go.

I was hoping we could excuse Baker from TC, but Milk's info makes that impossible. Perhaps we can put him on the PUP list. Not sure how closely the NFL monitors injuries. His injury isn't really a deal, but hopefully we can slide him onto it.

After that, I would keep him on the roster and hope someone wants to trade for him during TC or during the season if their starter suffers an injury. If that doesn't occur, I would hold on to him and go for the Comp pick. No way would I release him before the season starts.

I’ll add my thoughts before I read any other posts.

Trade him for a conditional pick - for example, if he goes to the Pro Bowl with his new team, we get a third rounder or whatever. And try to eat as little of his salary as possible.

That might sound too hopeful, but we need to get him elsewhere, outta town for good.

Geesh. On a hunch, I felt like searching, What animals turn on their own.
7 Animals that eat their own. Polar Bears, Spiders, Hamsters, parasitic wasps, sand tiger sharks, and chickens. ( No mention of DT Browns fans even if only a portion.)

The Browns leverage is that Drew Locke and Sam Darnold are terrible.

Just from a business standpoint, it makes sense to me to keep him as long as you have to pay him. The only way to gain some sort of compensation is to have him under contract.

I understand the negatives. There are negatives in almost anything the team does. The only positive to be gained is to trade him. I hold on to that positive as long as possible. The next best thing is to work out a buy-out with Baker and his agent. I don't know how workable that is or not.

Getting the compensatory pick is dependent on how many free agents we sign (really what they get paid) versus how much money other teams pay for guys we let walk during the off-season. Over-simplified there...but close enough.

Point #1 - IF we are to get ANY compensatory picks for Mayfield, it will be for the 2024 draft. That is not "next year"...it is the year AFTER next.

Point #2 - We do not have a 1st Rd pick again for 2023. We love 1yr contracts. Put those two things together and the chances that the Browns will NOT be players in free agency after the '22 season are likely slim. Our window is now. Hunt is a free agent after this year...there are many others that will be FAs after this year that don't come to mind right now. If both Mayfield AND Hunt AND ??? were added together, we might have some hope in the compensatory formula...but that depends on how much new FA $$$ we spend.

Whatever we can get for Baker in a trade is better than rolling the dice with the possibility of getting a compensatory pick...a compensatory pick for Baker is too far away (when your window is now) and much too uncertain (given no #1 draft pick and our 3rd Rd pick being late for '23 AND expiring contracts and possibly needing FA signings to keep up.)

However, if we still have Baker after the trade deadline...THEN considering the compensatory pick becomes viable. At that point, do you cut him to free up the roster spot? Or do you keep him a few more months (since you are paying him anyway) and THEN hope for the compensatory pick the year after next.

I frequently read talk about a 3rd Rd compensatory pick as if it's guaranteed (it's not) and for next year (which it's not).

What more can they do to him.. They already screwed him...

Wouldn't it be something if Watson gets a 1 year suspension...

That's a good post. I would hope that we can trade him during TC or before the trade deadline if another team loses his starter. I would only keep him all year if we could not trade him. There is just no way I would release him. I also am not a fan of paying a significant portion of his salary in order to move him. Of course, these are just my opinions.

We already know those guys are terrible. The leverage - if there is any - is that Ruhle in Carolina is coaching for his job and Darnold is his horse. Carroll has the cred to tank for a season in Seattle. If Carroll thinks he can compete for the playoffs, he won't do it with Locke and Geno Smith.

Just a friendly reminder. Let's try and keep the conversation about what we think the Browns should do w/Baker moving forward. Someone can start another thread about just how good/bad Baker is and who is or isn't at fault.

I'm not going to address all the other crazy points in your post (like signing Baker to a $35-$40M contract), but I will get in these 2.

The guardrails are ruining the Browns? In case you weren't aware, the Browns have been a joke since way before the guardrails were put in place. There was nothing left to ruin before Depo came in.

And about continuity: the Bengals defense, which you point to, had 5 new starters last year. Our defense this year will likely have 2 "new" starters (I put that in quotation, because those 2 new starters at DT were most likely still on the team last year).

And another fact, continuity is over-rated. We had all 11 starters back on offense last year, plus most reserves....how did that work out for us? We had 9 new starters on defense last year, and that unit far outperformed the offense.

Your arguments make no logical sense.

Maybe more to your reply to WSU's point, I don't know if we would get a comp pick for the guy or not, but if we out and out cut him, I think that eliminates any chance at a comp pick.

As he stated, any pick would be for 2024. I am not sure if guys like Cooper would factor in the contracts against. I think it would be any free agents we start to pick up next year, for the 2023 season to count against any comp possibilities for Baker in 2024. We also have several contracts up after this season. Add those with Bakers and we might stand to gain several picks.

As I said before, any chance of getting any compensation for him is to trade him or keep him and see if it helps with the comp pick formula.

To add...I am not going to get in to Bakers worth, but I don't think anybody thinks the guy is worthless.

The first thing the FO should do with Baker is determine if he is an assett or a liability, then treat him as such.

When is the trade deadline during the season. I do not know lets say it goes until week 6 (just a guess, please advise the real deadline).

The best thing for the Browns would be to Play Baker as he is under contract. This way he is showcased to the NFL that he has rehabbed and is playing well. We then trade him week 6 probably eating the portion of his salary that is left. The only problem I see is what if he plays well and we win 6-0 during that span.

Another scenario is he is on our roster but I do not know if we can ban him from the facilities. Especially if he is rehabbing an injury. But again play him in preseason and showcase him to potential buyers. Trade him prior to the season.

Another scenario is he is on our roster and he never gets any reps with the #1s. Game time we put him on the inactive list. Never playing him regardless if we are winning or losing with Brissett. Get our Compensation 3rd round pick and that is that. Of course if we are losing which would be hard to do cause I think our Defense will be awesome and our running game will control the game. But if we are losing the fans will get restless seeing Baker on the bench or listed on the inactive list.

At some point where are we with cutting our nose to spite our face? We have painted ourselves in a corner. I hope the suspension is not long but I am going with the mindset we will see an indefinite suspension with a 1 year minimum.
jmho

I think those boxes are smack-dab in the middle of an incomplete flowchart as he has been both since the moment they hopped on the plane. Now they're playing the waiting game until the liability outweighs the prospect and value of reward for the asset.

I have reached a point where I don't care.

He is not in the Browns plans anymore. They have brought in 3 quarterbacks.

He is going to get paid.

The one scenario that is possible and would complicate things is DW suspended for a year. Brissett starts and is injured. Is Josh Dobbs really an option?

At that point if you started Dobbs there is no backup.

So, Baker should get video of the practices and have a playbook. If DW is suspended for a year. Baker should return to practice.

This is professional football. DW is accepted in the locker.

Baker will be accepted as well if the situation dictates it.

I think by game four at the latest something will shake loose. There are numerous teams that are not settled at quarterback. Baker is not a cancer. He is also proven to be at least a 500 quarterback. There are starters who are not close to 500.

He is worth it for a number of teams. The money is not major for a starter. But if we can get a third or fourth and it takes paying half his salary to make the deal then do it.

I think its been proven that if we keep Baker we will get a 3rd round compensation pick. So I don't see us trading Baker for a 3rd round pick or less when that is what we got doing nothing. Either way Baker gets his money and most likely we will be paying for it.
jmho

I was hoping someone would verify this - I have seen it written that we WON'T get a Comp pick if Baker doesn't play.

I don't know so I have to relay on what I google and find to be accurate - but here it is:

https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/05...ield-during-the-regular-season-busted/3/
The whole “just wait until he signs elsewhere in 2023 and the Browns get a 3rd round pick” crowd is not going to like this part. If the Browns keep Mayfield, and he goes into free agency in 2023 having not played a single snap of the football in 2022, the Browns aren’t getting a third-round pick for Mayfield.


Not a lot else out there. I don't know if his playing time makes a difference. I think the number of free agents we lose (vs how many we sign?) and the contract they sign with another team all are factors.

We need cfrs and/or Milk on the case. Those guys know their stuff when it comes to matters like this.

The Browns are certainly not guaranteed a comp pick for Baker if they hold on to him and he leaves as an UFA. The Browns would first have to lose more players in FA than they sign in FA and if that barrier is met, then calculate the contract values into the formula.

The NFL's formula includes determining whether or not a player falls under the compensatory free agent (CFA) status, which is defined as such: A player who has signed with a new club during the prior free agency signing period (before 4 p.m. ET on the Monday following the most recent draft), or whose rights were retained by the prior franchise by tendering the unrestricted free agent; and a player who ranked within the top 35 percent of all NFL players according to average yearly compensation, with additional points assigned based on postseason honors earned or participation (total snaps played). Clubs who have lost more CFAs than they have signed or acquired are eligible to receive compensatory picks. Transition tag or franchise tagged players who receive an offer sheet and whose offer sheet is not matched by the tagging franchise do not qualify as compensatory free agents.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-compensatory-draft-picks-what-you-need-to-know

I had to read it four times...LOL....but, that was helpful. Thanks Milk.

From what I have been able to gather, playing time plays a major role in how players are valued in regards to which round you will receive as a compensatory pick. Listed #4 in the methodology section....

The Basics and Methodology of Projecting the NFL’s Compensatory Draft Picks

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

The information comes from the 2020 Collective Bargaining Agreement.

So we have...


So, is that during the life of the contract or the previous season only? If it's the life of the contract Mayfield will have played in about 75% of the snaps, if it's the previous season only -- that number would be zero. More ambiguity.

Edit to add: The other parameters seem to apply to the life of the contract, so there's that.

I have no idea. Just trying to dig up anything I can that pertains to the formula the NFL uses to determine what round of a compensatory pick you will receive. It appears to be a very complicated formula.

So it sounds like as though he would be treated as any other FA who leaves the team. There was a post a little while back that speculated it would be different because he was a 1st round pick. I am not surprised that is not the case. It is what it is.

There are some on here who think his injury is the cause of the lack of interest. Does anyone know the timeline on when he should be recovered from that and able to start working out? Or pass a physical? I guess that is the next milestone to look forward to in regards to moving on from this fiasco.

Here's my bottom line...

Berry and our FO seem very adept at "working the system", so I'm sure there are things they can do that would influence the formula to a point that it results in a 3rd round pick. The "3rd round pick" seems pretty appealing, but the truth is that it's the lowest of low 3rd round picks. There's not much of a drop-off between that and what the average team would provide (as far as value) in any 4th round pick.

I'm sure the FO would rather put this to rest asap and accept a 4th rounder for Baker. And isn't the current, simplistic thinking that a "x" round pick moves up a full round, season over season? In other words, a 4th round pick in 2023 holds about the same value as a 3rd in 2024? We would get that pick in 2023 as opposed to the comp pick in 2024.

The sticking point then becomes salary and how much we are willing to absorb. The "art of the deal" dictates that the receiving team would receive what they deem as a starting-caliber (obvious, or they wouldn't be trading for him) for low draft compensation and would be expected to absorb a certain portion of the salary. The other side of that coin is the fact that the player's salary doesn't really impact our cap for the year anyway. A lot to unpack, but bottom line is "sharing" the cost of the salary is still a win-win for both teams, it's only the amount that comes into question.

Teams that want Mayfield know they are "playing chicken" once the season begins, and that works in the Browns favor. As soon as any QB goes down, the market expands. I don't expect Berry to budge much in accepting less than a 4th with shared salary responsibility unless the dark cloud (which could become much darker, depending on the looming Watson suspension) outweighs the "value" we feel we would be getting in return for Mayfield.

It does, thanks digging as it at least adds a little more clarity to the confusion.

I think that's about where we are. I think paying $10-13M of Baker's salary is going to have to be a given if a trade is possible.

Another potential angle - how the NFL feels it treats a player no longer in it's plans. Keeping Baker for a year just to potentially get a 2024 5th round (spit balling) compensatory pick would probably not be a good look. Personally I am in the camp that don't feel the FO have done much wrong (ignoring the off field DW issues) - it's a business and Baker needs to get a thicker skin, stay off social media and get on with being the best QB he can be and that's it ... but there are talking heads, ex-players and fans that have all put out a narrative that Baker is entitled to feel at least a little aggrieved and the Browns should do the right thing by him regards releasing him. I hope we get a dance partner to trade with - if not I would lean on ending the hoopla and let the dude go and simply cut him. My decision time frame? Start of TC.

I think when it comes to Baker the Browns did a terrible job with PR. That's a very critical job of an NFL franchise whether people like it or not. If something concerning playing time, contacts and as a players future is concerned is conducted behind closed doors, that's one thing. But when you make a statement for public consumption saying one thing and then doing another, that's not a good look.

In reality a GM and FO's job is to try and upgrade your team at every position. That's exactly what they did with going out and outbidding the entire NFL to get watson from a purely talent at the position standpoint.

But saying one thing and then doing the opposite can't be spun into a good thing from a PR point of view. Hopefully they learn from it moving forward.

The compensation thing is rather confusing. I am thankful for Milk's post, but I am still not sure I completely understand how it works. It would be nice to know for sure because that would help me formulate my opinion on the Baker situation, but it is what it is.

Of course, what's important is that I believe the FO understands how it works. We have a very intelligent guys running the show and I trust them to handle this properly. I am not in the camp that is blaming them for this situation.

The 5 O’Clock Club: Explaining how compensatory draft picks work (Updated 25 Feb)

A lot of misunderstandings about the system. Reading through comments on the forums over the past several weeks, it became clear to me that there are a lot of misunderstandings about the compensatory pick system.

The compensatory draft pick system is very confusing, not the least because the rules for it are not written down anywhere. It’s a ‘secret’ system that the league owners administer for themselves.

However, through close observation over a number of years, certain people have created a set of rules that seem to explain how the system works and are able to project compensatory picks annually with great accuracy.

While OverTheCap didn’t figure out the rules, they have written extensively about the Compensatory Draft Pick system, and they publish a “Cancellation Chart” each season to help readers understand which teams are likely to receive compensatory picks.

Ninety to ninety-five percent of everything I know about the Compensatory Draft Pick system I learned by reading OverTheCap.

Determining compensatory picks is a detailed and complex system.

I will provide links to the key articles on the OTC website here, and I will quote extensively from OTC rather than trying to re-invent the wheel in terms of explaining the system, however, I will try to provide more a summary of how it works, rather than the detailed explanations available on the OTC website.

If you find yourself curious about how it all works, I suggest that you follow these links for in-depth discussion:

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

List of Compensatory Picks from 2015 onward

First, a word on the “importance” of Compensatory Picks
It’s good sport on Washington's Hogs Haven to laugh at the idea that compensatory picks should be considered when making free agency decisions, or that they have value.

Losing a top-ranked free agent like Kirk Cousins who gets a top-tier contract with another team has the potential to bring a 3rd round pick as compensation.

You aren’t impressed by the value of a 3rd round pick? Here’s what James Dorsett wrote recently concerning the value of a pick in the third round:

Every single year teams find gems in the third round between the 75th and 95th picks: Cliff Avril, NaVorro Bowman, Jimmy Graham, Russell Wilson, T.Y. Hilton, Keenan Allen, Trai Turner, David Johnson, Danielle Hunter, Kareem Hunt, the list goes on and on.

Hitting on guys in this range is far from a sure thing, but you want to take every chance you can get at acquiring players of this caliber for the bottom-basement price the CBA calls on teams to pay players taken in this part of the draft. Over the Cap projects the 78th pick in this year’s draft to receive a contract of under $3.5 million total. That is virtually nothing in today’s NFL.

When you miss out on a value like this or you give it away, as the Redskins did in our next case, you have to go out and find a replacement that is likely going to be much more costly in terms of hits to your salary cap.

In this case, James was railing against the Redskins for trading away a third round pick to acquire Alex Smith, but his thoughts on the value of a draft pick apply just as much when the question revolves around the league giving you extra picks in next year’s draft.

How much value can be involved?

Well, in 2018 year’s draft:

the Bengals will have 3 extra picks (3rd, 5th and 7th).
The Texans will have 4 extra picks (3rd, two 6ths, 7th).
The Cowboys have two 4ths and two 5ths.
Green Bay gets a 3rd and three 5ths.
The Cardinals have 3 extra picks (3rd, 4th, 5th).
How would you feel if the Redskins were able to choose three or four extra players in next year’s draft?

How much flexibility would the team have to trade up for a player they loved if they had a couple of extra draft picks to throw into the deal?

Compensatory picks are certainly not the be-all-and-end-all of NFL roster building, but they are not just throw-away picks either. Compensatory picks offer real value in terms of 32 additional players added to NFL rosters.

So, before you laugh at someone who talks about managing free agency to get (or keep) compensatory picks, remember that they have real value in next year’s NFL draft.

The basics of the compensatory system
Again, all the material in this section is summarized from an OverTheCap article on the topic, or in some cases, from their original source.

1. To qualify for compensatory picks, you need to lose more (or better) free agents than you sign from other teams
As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four. Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula.

In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); [generally speaking,] he must sign during the UFA signing period

There are some detailed exceptions to these rules, but they are not really important to this summary.

2. Each qualifying free agent must be assigned a value based on his contract, playing time and postseason honors, and that value corresponds to a round in the draft.
Start with the actual APY of the contract signed.
Subtract from the actual APY any money that the compensatory formula does not count. It has been determined that workout bonuses, incentives, and salary escalators are the most common money figures that the compensatory formula does not count.
Adjust the APY by applying a coefficient based upon the percentage of offensive or defensive snaps the player took in his first year under the contract.
Apply a positive coefficient to each UFA that obtained postseason honors
3. Once an adjusted APY has been determined, each UFA is given a value that either (i) assigns him as a CFA to a particular round ranging from the 3rd to the 7th, or (ii) does not qualify him as a CFA at all
The system for doing this is quite complex, but you don’t really have to understand it. OverTheCap publishes a cancellation chart on which they show their projected value for every free agent who changes teams in an off season. At any given point in the free agency period, you can click to this chart and see the status of any NFL team you are interested in.

4. Finally, once each team’s list of CFAs lost and gained are determined and valued, one-to-one cancellations are applied. Cancellations work as follows:
A CFA gained by a team cancels out the highest-valued available CFA lost that has the same round valuation of the CFA gained.
If there is no available CFA lost in the same round as the CFA gained, the CFA gained will instead cancel out the highest-available CFA lost with a lower round value.
A CFA gained will only cancel out a CFA lost with a higher draft order if there are no other CFAs lost available to cancel out.
Any team that has more CFAs lost than CFAs gained will then be eligible for compensatory picks for the CFAs lost that were not cancelled out by CFAs gained.

The key point here is that a team will only be awarded one or more compensatory picks if that team loses more qualifying free agents to other teams than it signs in a single off season.

To maximize the compensatory picks received, the team would lose free agents with high APY (average contract $ per year) and sign no one, or players with low APY.

5. There are two key restrictions that may limit the number of compensatory picks a team may receive:
There is a strict limit of 32 compensatory picks that are awarded every year. If the formula initially awards more than 32 compensatory picks, all picks ranked 33rd and below are not awarded
A team may not be awarded any more than four compensatory picks in one year. If the formula initially awards a team more than four, the lowest of the picks over the per-team limit of four are not awarded
When would the pick be awarded?
Compensatory picks are awarded by the NFL Management Council, and apply to the draft in the year that follows the Free Agency period. In other words, free agents who are signed in this (2018) off season will determine compensatory picks used by teams in the 2019 draft.

How valuable is a pick awarded this off-season?
In terms of value, there are a few things to take into account:

Compensatory picks in each round are used after the 32 ‘standard’ picks have been made, so they represent the lowest draft positions in that round.
In terms of TRADE VALUE, draft picks are typically deemed to be worth one round less than a draft pick a year earlier. In other words, a 4th round draft pick in next year’s draft (2019) is generally deemed to be equivalent in value to a 5th round pick in this year’s draft (2018) due to the value of time. Of course, when selecting players in 2019, a 4th round pick is just that - a 4th round pick.
Compensatory picks are fully tradeable, so they have value in helping teams move up in the draft. This is a fairly new rule -- originally, compensatory picks couldn’t be traded.
Which upcoming Redskin free agents are likely to qualify for the Compensatory formula?
First, and most importantly, you need to understand that a player who re-signs with the team he played for at the end of the 2017 season has no effect on the calculation (except insofar as that team doesn’t need to sign a player from another team to replace him).

By way of example, if Mason Foster had not been signed by the Redskins, but had instead left via free agency, he would probably been included in the calculation of compensatory picks awarded.

Since Mason Foster re-signed with the Redskins, he did not change teams, and he has no effect at all on the Compensatory Draft Pick formula.

This means that re-signing a team’s own free agents has potentially more value than signing other team’s free agents, since it improves the opportunity to gain compensatory draft picks.

That said, these are the players from the Redskin roster who are most likely to have an impact on the formula if they leave via free agency between March and July:

Kirk Cousins
Terrelle Pryor Sr.
Zach Brown
Niles Paul
Trent Murphy
Junior Galette
Spencer Long
Bashaud Breeland
Ryan Grant
Please note that this is not a comprehensive list of upcoming Redskin unrestricted free agents, but a list of those most likely to qualify for compensatory picks if signed away by another team. For a comprehensive list of 2017 Redskin players who currently don’t have a contract for 2018, see Monday’s 5 o’clock club.

Just a reminder that trades, Restricted Free Agents, and re-signing your own free agents don’t count
Alex Smith and Kendall Fuller have no impact on the Compensatory Draft Pick calculation because trades aren’t included... only unrestricted free agents.

Re-signing Redskin free agents has no impact either. For example, if the Redskins re-sign Galette and Long, there would be no change (positive or negative) to the compensatory draft picks the Redskins would qualify for.

Also, RFAs & ERFAs are not included in the system.

To think the Browns would automatically get a 3rd round pick for Mayfield is not in stone. If the Browns sign a 5 Free Agent's and only lose Mayfield, they get no pick. If the Browns sign 1 free agent and only lose Mayfield, the Browns get no Compensatory Draft Pick. If the Browns lose 8 players to Free Agency but sign 2 Free Agents and Mayfield grades out highest, he would be cancelled by one of the top FA the Browns signed.

If Mayfield grades out below 32nd of the available free agents comps (Vers believes Mayfield is not a top 32 QB) then the Browns get nothing.

Other than these two links.........


https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

..........was this all in one article or was your opinion intermingled w/the article? I'm having a hard time deciphering some of it.

Just a copy and paste. The layman's explanation is at the end.

Thanks. Good article.

Just regarding Baker in general and whether - as some have claimed he isn't liked in the locker room which I never bought into:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/02/browns-players-explain-crazy-thing-baker-mayfield-odell-beckham

The two Browns teammates have nothing against either Beckham or Mayfield individually. Owusu-Koramoah called Beckham “one of the best teammates I’ve had,” while Newsome called him “the best teammate.”

However, Newsome also described Mayfield as “a great teammate, too,” which he called the “crazy thing” about the “off” situation with the two. The cornerback mentioned he would often go out to dinner with Mayfield and the rest of the offense, and the quarterback would treat him well throughout their time together.

Given Baker is goneski from the team, there is zero need to give the guy fake praise. jmo

As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire.

To be clear, if the Browns sign more free agents than they lose - the Browns get zero compensation picks.

Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on SALARY, PLAYING TIME and POST SEASON HONORS. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula.

If Mayfield plays zero games in 2022 for the Browns, the Browns would be lucky to get a 7th round pick just because of the games not played.

Even if the Browns have Watson get suspended for the year and Mayfield plays every game in 2022, he would be the top CFA player for the Browns, they would lose the compensatory pick as soon as the Browns signed another Free Agent.

Once each team’s list of CFAs lost and gained are determined and valued, one-to-one cancellations are applied. Cancellations work as follows:
A CFA gained by a team cancels out the highest-valued available CFA lost that has the same round valuation of the CFA gained.
If there is no available CFA lost in the same round as the CFA gained, the CFA gained will instead cancel out the highest-available CFA lost with a lower round value.
A CFA gained will only cancel out a CFA lost with a higher draft order if there are no other CFAs lost available to cancel out.
Any team that has more CFAs lost than CFAs gained will then be eligible for compensatory picks for the CFAs lost that were not cancelled out by CFAs gained.

ha, ... tyler owens, (as he pronounces it,) or Rowland as it reads, on locked on- Tennessee titans podcast, circa August 2021, explained the formula in about fifteen minutes. It went something like this.
take all the players that sign with new teams in free agency, now, there are only so many picks to give out, so,
it (in practice becomes) tiered, to what round of pick your team receives, and it's based on the dollar/money value of the new contract.

And then, it's contradicted by the dollar/money value of the contracts your team spends on free agents your team brings in in the same year.

So that, If Baker left the Browns and the Browns signed no other off season free agents from other former teams, and Bakers new contract was for say, 20 million dollars plus, then the Browns would have a net pick up of one draft pick based on that 20 million dollar contract, and where that ranks in relation to all the free agent deals across the league.

Now, if in the same year, the Browns, signed say, PLayer (superman) as a free agent from another former team, and paid that player a new FA contract anywhere in the same tier, I6-20 million say, then the fact the Browns signed that other player would totally cancel out any compensatory pick possibly given to the Browns for losing your free agent.

And it works in multiples, for instance you can lose 3 players and sign 3 players and get 0 compensatory picks. And it's based on the relative dollar value of the NEW contracts players sign for on their new teams.
000 dollars to about 4 million is maybe one tier (late round comp picks 5th round?)
Greater than 4 million /year to 6 million may end up another tier. (slightly better positioned comp picks)
6-I0 million may end up another tier. (even better positioned compensatory picks, maybe 3rd-4th round)
and then so on, so that if only one or 2 players sign as a free agent on a new contract over I2-I5 million dollars then that team would end up with a better compensatory pick.
AT least that is how it had worked out in a previous season being reffered to.

I don't see it that way. The way I understand it, playing time considerations are for/from the free agents' playtime (& performance, salary, etc) from the 1st yr of their new contract with their new team. Not the last year with their old team. Generally speaking...the comp pick (+)-check-mark for the team is based on the FA's value to his NEW team...not what was his value to his old team.

The comp pick is calculated AFTER the 'next' season has completed - so... lose guy after '22 season...see how he fared in '23 season...run through the grinder and calculate comp pick for '24 draft.

The comp pick "value" is much more attractive to the team that signs Baker than it is for the Browns...especially if he is a one year rental for '22. Trade for him...have the Browns pick up his salary (or some of it)...don't re-sign Baker after the season...then he becomes a (+)-check-mark in new team's comp formula for the following draft.

No doubt the comp formula is complicated. It might be as guarded a secret as the formula for coca cola...lol

I know there are a few sites out there that seem to have it pretty down pretty close and seem to be accurate when predicting what teams are going to get picks each year.

I don't believe the playing part has anything to do with it. If a player got injured I believe you would still get a pick for him if he left via free agency as long as you meet the requirements of the formula used.

All I think I know is it has to do with dollar value of contracts gained v dollar value of contracts lost. After that it is too complicated and frankly not worth it to me to try to investigate further.

As I said earlier, if there is even a chance we can gain something in the way of a pick by keeping him, it is worth doing so.

I know many are down on Baker, but he isn't simply some scrub QB with no value. At the very least he would be the best back-up QB in the league and teams trade for back-up's all the time. I don't think he is simply a back-up. He is a good starting QB. Good enough that had Watson not been available, he would still be the starting QB for the Browns. He may not have been a top 5 type QB like Watson, but he was a middle of the pack guy who many teams want...and they do. One of them is going to step forward and make a trade before the season starts.

The problem is right now we have ZERO leverage. None. As the season inches forward we will begin to gain some.

Interesting take as it shows where the potential value is for both parties. If we are to trade, we will eat salary, some of it. Maybe agree to that with a performance pick in return. I would think a team would find the multiple "plus" outcomes could make this work. They get Baker; they could move a player or low pick; they get his salary paid for in part (or in cash, which I doubt); and they also get to 'buy' the potential of a comp pick. Many moving parts to work with there, even if it is a "hold your nose" trade. Still, it will be the buyer's markets, I suspect: How little of how much can I get away with for BM? How many ways can that benefit my team?
This makes the risk of his consistency issues and his recovery fade a bit in my judgment. Nice insight, Willie.

My attention span with all my meds I couldn't get through that...so what was your synopsis on what you read 4 time....lol

I could try to explain some things, but I would just sound foolish. I know my lane. I know a lot about the game of football, but I am not worthy to speak legalese. I'll leave that to others who are more versed on the subject. I just hope things work out for the team I love and that old guys like you and I finally get to get to experience our dream of the Browns winning a Super Bowl.

Be careful. You gave an objective post on Baker. You may now be labeled a Baker lover.

888, the Browns should not make any move with baker until the league makes their ruling on Dashaun. If the suspension is four games or less then get what we can for him and we roll with Brissett. More than four we go to baker and his agent and offer him the starting position for the duration of the suspension. He can show the league he is recovered and if he plays at the level he can play I guarantee some of these teams who are rolling with the darnolds, trubiskeys, lock etc will see an opportunity to upgrade their qb position.

I think the idea that some teammates won’t play with baker because of something he has said in the past suggests we have junior high students playing for us. We do not. We have adult professionals who want to make the playoffs. If they see that baker gives us the best chance they will be all in.

I just hope we hear soon!

Agree entirely for the most part. Someone mentioned the possibility that the biggest bridge burnt in all of this might be the relationship between KS and BM... that might make it more difficult. Still doable but more of a challenge.

What to do with Baker? Root for him in the Superbowl when DW goes to jail?

The Jacoby Brissett era begins.

No surprise to many of us.

j/c

That familiar sound you here? Of a season that ends before it gets even close to starting? It's back. Like that comfy sweatshirt that you wear with shorts in the fall...it comes out every year. Might as well tank for the draf...wait...hmmm...no...that's...I'd rather we accumulate draft picks - that WE get to use...and still suck...than spend draft picks that someone else gets to use... and still suck.

Who didn't see this coming?

And that sweatshirt has stains all over it that just won't wash out. Yet despite just how disgusting that sweatshirt becomes, you still wear it.

"bring out yer dead!"

And the latest QB has more charges than names on the back of the jersey! 😳

I am going to guess we will soon learn that if Baker wasn't good enough neither of the two available QAs will get us over the hump either. I can see us possibly selling off some big names within a year to recoup picks from the Watson deal.

The Browns have gone through more QBS than Watson has message therapists
Hahaha.

Sadly maybe half as many QBs and Watson's had massage therapist.

I bet Clowney is wishing he would have held off just a bit longer...

What to do with Baker? Fly to his house...grovel at his feet...apologize for all over him...offer him a bonus for coming back...beg him to come to TC...mow his lawn...wash his car and feet...that should do it...oh...and force him to use only team-vetted massage personnel.

Berry going over to Baker's house ...

Berry to Baker:

If DW gets banned for 12 or more games (at this point I expect the season) - Baker would be the best option. I just wonder if Berry and KS would consider it. I'm glad Baker has been out of the news, off social media, maybe there is a chance.

.

Do we really need to wonder if they'd consider it? I think we all know where this situation stands.

Most probably .... but if we accept Watson is better than Baker but Baker is better than Brissett. . . . And as an organization the goal is to win.... Don't you have to consider if the bridge can be built? Baker couldn't p[lay for a team more ready to win than the Browns. He could have a good year and establish his market value for next contract off a good year instead of an injury plagued season.

* Again - this is assuming no DW all year.

I've never seen anyone pay a tenant 18.8 million dollars to evict them. Better luck next time.

As bad as that relationship has been fractured think about how we bought DW after being the first one refused. I could see Haslam dropping bank on Baker at this point because we are just a huge Clown Show now.

There's actually nearly no chance at all that they do it. They may briefly consider it, but they wouldn't actually do it.
They will roll with Brisset to open the season, and should he get injured, they will let the season wash out with Dobbs before they "stoop" to asking Baker.
Baker isn't seeing the field for CLE barring a catastrophic implosion to the roster at that position.

IMO, even though it's a given that Baker won't play another down for us, I feel we should utilize him as a consultant. His knowledge of the O could be a huge help to our new QB's, Stadium maintenance and others who want to buy insurance from Progressive. Let's not be too quick to cut the ties!!

If Baker is a locker room cancer, then I don't believe he will have a good year because his teammates may quit on him.

It's a possibility that's how the organization thinks also.

Excusing Baker from mini camp may have more to do with his rehabbing, it could also mean the FO doesn't want him in the locker room.

just my thoughts on it.

I just expanded on this in the other active thread - honestly the probability is tiny - maybe it's zero. But if the purpose is to win and Baker is better than Bassett then it has to at least be looked at. As you mentioned - it absolutely could not happen unless Baker was on board, and any hard feelings were put to bed. If I am Baker - I don't have a better chance to play on a better team and showcase myself before signing a contract next year ... but yeah - chances are slim and none, one of those left town.

I think you are being extremely fair. So, please do not take this the wrong way. Allow me to ask a question and I'll give you time to think about it. If the Browns were just giving Baker time to rehab, why would they want him to do so away from the team facilities? One more question..........what seems more likely.......allowing him to rehab away from our medical staff or that he is no longer wanted by the organization?

Baker Mayfield has been a Team Player for the Browns.
The Haslams have cut the entire Quarterback Room 3 or more times since they purchased the team, won't appear to allow for development.

It's a tough situation, If Baker could forgive and start off like he did the first two games of last year the team could rally around him and it could be a win win for all involved.

Trying to make sense of all of this and staying positive is kind of exhausting !

.

Saying your teammates don't care about winning and worry more about their retirement fund is a team player? Saying that the organization disrespected you is a team player? Asking for a trade is a team player? Blaming the turnover of coaches, some of which you were directly responsible for, is a team player?

LOL

j/c:

The team should totally give Baker some massage vouchers to patch things up. Watson probably knows some good spots.

As fair as I can answer, I cannot say if they want him to rehab away from the facility or if that is his choice. When it comes to rehab from an injury I believe the player has a choice of the place to rehab. I would say it's Bakers choice not to rehab with the team DR's more than them not wanting him to.

What seems more likely, I would have to say rehab away from the facility because that's fact.

As far as not being wanted by the organization, it sure feels that way. Trying to trade him and by signing DW the feeling would be yes they no longer want him.

I disagree w/your take about the rehab part, but that doesn't mean I am right and I do respect your take. Thanks for taking the time to answer, bro.

By the way..........any contact w/the old guard? Click? Prestier? Etc?

Oh crap.........just use initials if you heard anything. This is a public forum. My bad.

LOL!!!! We have to maintain a sense of humor!!

What to do with Baker is do whatever it takes to have him back. But I doubt that will happen. Right now Baker is workout at his leisure, playing golf and getting paid 18 mil no matter what. He loves the game of football and is at his best playing with a chip on his shoulder so who knows. Question is DO THE BROWNS want to win this season 2022 or just bag it in to get that High pick next year...oh wait we threw our future away with this stoopid trade.

Jordan Davis could have been ours...smh
I will probably not be on this earth for a 2023 season so this means more to me than you can imagine. I hate these idiots who made this trade and did this to ME and all us loyal Browns fan. My son is asking me to become a Cowboy fan...sorry I'm a Cleveland Browns fan or NOTHING.

I didn't see this anywhere. btw Simms has said that Baker is a top 10 QB in the NFL...although he only ranked him #17 in his ranking of QBs but he has stated that the Browns and MEDIA has treated Baker terribly. Well just some of his opinions.

https://thecomeback.com/nfl/chris-simms-cleveland-browns-baker-mayfield.html

It really doesnt matter and I would not worry about distractions, I mean seriously is BM a bigger distraction then the DW circus. We are not winning anything this year except a handfull of games against teams that are .500 as long as Jb or JD are forced into playing. Watson will likely not sniff the field this year....wasted year with an otgerwise stacked team.

Juju was right..the browns is the browns

DW is a much bigger distraction. That doesn't mean that if you put another log on the fire it won't increase the heat and the brightness of the flame the fire creates.

We might have to humble ourselves (The Browns) and have a bury the hatchet meeting with Baker, especially if DW is suspended for the season, it would help Baker show he can still play for a future trade and it would give the Browns a QB that can win with this roster ...

I think that any trade is HIGHLY unlikely. I don't think anyone is going to want to give up picks on a 1-year rental.
A team would have to come to terms on a new deal with Baker as part of it before they'd give up any real compensation, which means that, in a sense, Baker gets to decide if he is traded or not, and to where. BUT, what team is going to give up picks to get him during the season when they'd just have to sit and wait a few more weeks and they can just sign him in free agency?



Before any of this goes down... is Baker even healthy and cleared for everything, yet?

There is a better chance of a pterodactyl swooping down and tearing me apart limb by limb than there is of Baker ever playing another down for the Browns.

A more plausible scenario, in the even Watson is suspended for the year, would be to trade for Garoppolo (depending on cost of draft picks) and sign him to a one year deal and let him be the starter for a season. I think this is quite unlikely.

Most likely scenario, Brissett is the starting QB.

If a team thinks they can make a playoff run in '22 but has their starter go down...picking up Baker... even in mid-season...would be smart not only for the present...but then Baker's chip as far as a potential comp pick transfers to that new team. But as you said...we don't even know if he's throwing right now. What a mess.

Let me dig ... saw something about him throwing to Cole Beasley and another WR ...

Yep - this is from the end of March which is encouraging.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/30/baker-mayfield-working-out-away-from-browns-with-cole-beasley/

While I think the fact that his injury was to his non throwing arm really impacted his ability to throw in the season - I think for recovery purposes it has to be better/easier.

Off the field, sure, DW is the bigger distraction. On the field, it's Baker.

It's a lot harder to ignore on the field distractions when trying to practice. Players are used to having to compartmentalize and tone down outside noise.

Players do their bast to rally around their team mates. IF Baker would ever be the starter again, they would rally around him just like they would any other starting QB. These players and coaches will constantly be bombarded by questions surrounding watson as long as this thing persists. We need to stop pretending that NFL players are some kind of super humans that can just block all of that out.

Their football careers depend on their production and numbers. They're not going to let their futures be impacted because of some fan perceived issue with Baker on the field.

Agreed, people keep confusing what happens outside of football w/what happens in the locker room and on the field. Baker's gone. He burned his bridges w/his immature behavior.

Just a question about Baker. How do we make a trade if he isn’t rehabbing in Cleveland? Nobody knows how healthy he is right now, nobody knows if he is even throwing a football yet. Bridges have been burnt on both sides, does anybody answer the phone if either one calls the other?

I think what is very forgotten is that in week 18 of last year , Mayfield told the media "I need to do whats best For my future" and he proceeded to passively quit that week
I think that action that Mayfield took did not sit well with the roster
I guarantee you if the Browns had to beat the Bengals in week 18 to ensure a playoff
Berth he would have strapped it up.
But the Browns were eliminated yet 53 guys went to battle and beat Cincinnati
Then in a March , BM demands a trade from the Browns
Yet somehow the got the Mayfield Fan Club acting like he is a victim
Baker isn't the team player he presents to the medIa and fans
He opted to play through a injury last year based ego , not whats best for the team

That is such BS. Is he a turd for NOT playing the last, meaningless game? Or a turd for powering through to help his team win while they were in contention? Do you even recognize the hypocrisy in that post? Those 53 guys that went to battle? How many of them had an injury - that they had since before halftime of game #2 - that would require surgery at the immediate end of the season?

Not to mention that you have NO IDEA what Baker is or is not. What everyone DOES know is that he's much better than Brissett...and the powers that be need to figure out a way to bury the hatchet that they drove into Baker's back.

You need to start hating on dashaun then. He demanded a trade and abandoned his teammates for an entire season.

Playing at less than 100% after the Texans game is not a good look and quitting on your team when your out of playoff Contention is not a good look.
Is he better than Brisett? Well he should be ,he was the 1st pick in the 2018 Draft
But I do recall Brissett one year with the Colts threw for 18 TD and 6 INT
Which was better than Bakers season last year
So Brissett and Mayfield are not that far apart in what they bring to the table
I do know one of them is taking snaps for the Browns
And the other is hoping to get signed this year

Just so I am clear. Everyone knows that, without Watson, baker gives us the best chance to make the playoffs but our roster is populated with junior highers who would allow some personal offense to prevent them from playing with him. Sorry, I don’t buy it. Our guys are adult pros who want to win and if baker gives us our best shot they will line up with him and give it their best shot!

To be clear, Baker called out Stefanski twice last year. He said the Browns were too conservative against Baltimore and then talked about not making adjustments in the last Pittsburgh game. After that game, Baker said he wold consult w/his agent and family about whether or not to play in the season final against the Bengals. Baker did not include the coaching staff or the Brown's organization. He chose to act like a child instead of an adult. Then, he told Shefty that it would be best for both parties if they parted ways after the Watson thing went down. Afterwards, he did a podcast and accused teammates of not wanting to win and only caring about their retirement fund, blamed the turnover in the coaching staff, said he wanted to go and boo fans while they were in the cubicle, and said he felt disrespected. He is an emotional midget w/an ego that far outweighs his abilities on the field. One can only imagine how bad it was behind the scenes. I don't think there is any chance that the Browns would take Baker back.

No amount of personal attacks by the usual suspects will change the above facts and I will not partake in the exchanging of insults.

We know - you only like to give them out.

j/c:

I have been thinking about the comments that have been made since this all went down about how the Brown's players are not in Jr. High or whatever and are professionals and how others on here work w/people they don't like. I don't think some folks understand a professional locker room. I certainly am not an expert on the matter, but I've known some guys, especially back in the day when we all first started talking on here. I think the old-timers remember my scoops about guys like Leon, K2, etc.

One must understand that these guys are being paid. Almost all of them have extended families to support. It's a business and you don't mess w/another man's money. You don't get in the way of winning. If anything, these guys are much less tolerant of someone who gets in the way of them conducting their business. There are guys in the league who were living in cars as kids. Now, they have a chance to take care of not only themselves, but a lot of their loved ones.

Former players have addressed Baker's attitude and comments over and over and over. Guys like Damien Woody, Marcus Spears, Ryan Clark, Rob Nikovich, Tedi Bruschi, Louis Reddick, Chris Canty, etc. They don't like Baker. They don't think he is a very good player. And they sure as hell don't like how he runs his mouth, his arrogance, and immaturity. I think these guys have a real good feel for the locker room. Certainly better than all of us. I think things are at a point where Baker is going to have a hard time finding a landing spot. Word gets around. Robbie Anderson saying Noooooo or something close to that when there was a report of Baker going to Carolina and then doubling down on it tells a story. Words from a former NFL Exec in Scott Pioli saying he would not bring Baker Mayfield into his organization due to playing the victim and not taking accountability mean something. As does the leagues lack of interest in trading for Baker and the Browns wanting to move on from him. Personal attacks on a message board won't change those realities.

Sssshhhhh...

Too late. You've been doing that for months now.

Which is exactly why they wouldn't let their future value be put at risk by some personal BS like you have claimed. They will perform to the best of their ability no matter who is under center because their families well being and their future earnings depend on it. If they play or produce poorly, their future earnings are greatly impacted in the negative. How you can write what you posted and ignore that fact is beyond me.

Yeah, but he hasn't done it here...... yet.

Any of those guys play on the same team and the same time as Baker?

If you are going to list the players that don't like Mayfield, isn't it only right that you list the ones that do? Chubb, Hunt, Higgins, Garrett! Aren't his teammates more meaningful than a bunch of guys that make a living being talking heads?

As usual, your facts are incorrect. I'll stand behind my comments.

No, his facts are not incorrect. He pretty much nailed that IMO. Those talking heads are just talking heads, paid to criticize and bash when the opportunity serves to justify dumb crap pulled by an NFL owner. In the same way, they are bashing the DW trade all over the place. BUT, I don't think I've seen you posting that 20 times a day.

Hunt? Really? Higgins? Eh........see Robbie Anderson. Myles made his comments awhile ago. He has supported Watson since then. He has also asked OBJ to come back. He has not publicly asked the same of Baker. He was right about Chubb, but Chubb also endorsed Watson.

And, as usual, Daman missed my point. There is a difference in a locker room from what happens away from football as to what happens in the locker room and on the field. Players accepted A. Peterson after he beat his son's privates w/a whip. They accepted Hardy who turned his women's face into the Elephant Man. They accepted Mixon after he threw a haymaker at a woman because she was trying to stop Mixon from harassing her gay friend. They accepted Kobe after rape charges. Same w/Kaep.

What they don't want to accept is a guy who calls out teammates and coaches in public. A guy who makes excuses and plays victim while not taking accountability. A guy who loses games and they get blamed for his issues as if they are not good enough.

So, while the charges against Watson are far, far more serious than the character issues about Baker, they are two totally different things. And there are a few posters trying to say that myself, and maybe others, are comparing them in the overall grand scheme of things, but I know I am not. They are separate. Of course sexual misconduct is far worse than bad-mouthing teammates, but the locker room is a different place and some folks are in denial about that reality.

Nope, you are trying too hard. They all showed support for Baker and "Any of those guys play on the same team and at the same time as Baker?" he was spot on with this bit. No amount of protest will sway me, you are wrong. At least in him not being correct. And honestly, I have to question why any of them changed direction since. Obviously, they knew Baker was on his way out, DW was the new guy, and the FO wanted a feel-good story for PR purposes... I can't imagine why they would say those things. Let me ask you a simple question to prove my point. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY GOING TO SAY, that Miles Garrett is down with the type of crap DW is accused of OR the crap DW has openly admitted? Really? I bet if DW walked into Miles's gym, AND HE WASN'T the new 'guy'; Miles would escort him out by the nape of the neck and an 'about to crush, tear off, and smack him upside the head with em' grip on his balls. Miles damn sure ain't down with DW at this point, bank that.

I am not wrong. Research Hunt's dad.

Myles? Here are his words:



Myles is far more mature than much older men.

And you believe after the 66 number came out and DW's attorney made his very telling gaffe, that Miles is in his corner just because he's here? You must know a much different Miles than I do. I mean the MIles I know would take a helmet to a dude's head over some crap like that.

OCD - I am not going to try and tell you what players think. That's anyone's guess - but based on their words, the people that played with Baker supported him. Newsome and I think it was JOK just came out and said good things about Baker too and that was while praising DW, so it's after the decision that Baker is no longer the guy.

I'm not going to get into appraising Baker. He has lots in his game where things break down and he struggles. We've seen videos and break downs. This notion that all of a sudden teams 'figure him out' - I think is a stretch. After year 1 - he had a bad year, married, overweight, over confident and Kitchens as the HC. I think those are bigger factors. While I am not going to talk about Baker's ability or struggles, I am going to talk one final time on this idea the injury didn't impact him much. And here - it doesn't get any simpler than this:

After a strong finish to 2020 - in 2021:
First two games starting healthy: 40 comp 49 attempts. 81.6% completion %
Remaining games when injured: 213 comp 369 attempts. 57.7% completion %

Maybe teams 'figured him out' - maybe the injury played a bigger part. Maybe he was lucky in those games - like he got lucky vs Cinci where he completed 21 attempts in a row. I don't for a second believe he keeps going at 80% for the season when healthy, but I think I know why there was such a bad drop off. jmo

j/c:

If anyone is interested in accuracy, you can click on this link and watch the video of Newsome and JOK talking. Both were praising OBJ as the best teammate and Newsome said something about the crazy thing is that Baker was a great teammate, too. Watch and decide for yourselves what really was said.


https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports.../95-d060c395-a40d-43df-a484-68843a48ed94

Newsome, JOK...they played on the team that made the playoffs, didn't they..the team that went 11-5 and defeated the Steelers in the first round of the playoffs..?

NO WAIT...Newsome and JOK were just a couple of rookies during the season when OBJ was doing all he could to get the hell out of Cleveland. These two rookies played 6 games with OBJ, who didn't want to play on their team, yet these rookies have their fingers on the pulse of the Browns franchise. I wonder if they knew that OBJ never wanted to play in Cleveland.

...but hey, OBJ did give out free shoes, a bye product of OBJ endorsement deal with Nike. I guess that makes OBJ a great teammate to those "rookies" who played (6 games) with OBJ.

Newsome talked about how OBJ would talk to him after practice about technique and other things. JOK was agreeing w/him. Btw-------Myles Garrett has asked OBJ to come back to Cleveland. Other teammates have spoke highly of him. Of course, you know more than they do about OBJ.

I think you are missing the point of why that video - I mistakenly made a comment that Newsome and JOK made positive comments about Baker while also praising DW - it was in fact OBJ they were talking about.... Meh. They still said positive things about Baker even knowing he was leaving the team which is the point I made.

Once again I ask that people actually watch the video. JOK did not say anything positive about Baker. In fact, please pay close attention to JOK when Newsome praised Baker. I am asking folks to believe me over the other poster. Please watch for yourself who is being accurate.

vers..I know OBJ never gave a crap about playing for the Browns...

OBJ was a punk looking out for himself and the only reason he might mention playing in Cleveland now is that he is HOMELESS with no contract and not one NFL team wants to sign him until they know if his knee is healthy. His rehab won't be over until the last half of the season and this is his 2nd surgery on the same knee, on a soon to be 30 yr old WR.

OBJ wanted out of Cleveland and the Browns should never forget how he played them in his effort to get out.

mac, the Browns have had internal discussions about bringing OBJ back. I posted a video about it after Myles came out and asked OBJ to come back to Cleveland. Myles has not asked for Baker and the Browns to work things out. He did say something nice about Baker like he'll land on his feet "somewhere else."

As far as the other thing goes........I have simply asked that posters watch the video and decide for themselves who is being accurate w/their assessment of what Newsome and JOK said. I did not realize allowing people to make up their minds was a bad thing. I still encourage folks to read the articles and watch the videos I posted about that demonstrated that Baker's issues did not come from his injured arm but a plethora of other things that have been an ongoing thing that did not just begin last season. So again, I encourage people to watch the videos and read the text themselves to make up their own minds who is being truthful and who is or is not "ignorant" and "biased."

The second paragraph of mine was addressing a post by another poster [not mac] that has disappeared. Probably for the name calling that it contained. I just don't want people to think that I was blaming mac for the second paragraph. I'm not.

Vers, you might have picked this hill to die on, but covering for DW while constantly tearing down Baker is a bad look man. You do you, but I'm good with my approach. And it's not a Baker fanboy thing like you would like to paint it, it's a living-in reality thing when it comes to what all has transpired with both QBs. Now if DW somehow avoids suspension and plays this year, Baker is just gone and that's that. But if DW is taken off the board AND Baker is still here under contract, then it is in the best interest of both Baker and the team that he takes the field. Sure if egos get in the way, Jacoby will be the guy, but don't insult us by saying or pretending Jacoby is the same or better than Baker at this point, there is NOTHING I'm aware of to factually back that statement up. I'm pretty sure I don't have to beg people to watch clips or see it from my point of view to see the merit in what I'm saying. With that, I'm done with this topic for now. There are too many variables to even talk about it rationally until we see what the DW situation is going to be for this season.

OCD does not speak for me. There is so much off about that post regarding to what I think that I will just let it go, but he is misrepresenting my opinions. Perhaps he is doing so unintentionally, so I won't argue. Just clarifying that his takes are NOT my opinions.

No Vers, I don't speak for you. But I did represent what I've gleaned from your many posts, and if I'm off in any way, it's a matter of personal interpretation completely without intended malice. And there is no right or wrong in hypothesizing what may or may not happen in this situation, it's all perception and speculation, including trying to decipher where you stand.

If Baker is excused from mandatory OTAs, I think he won't play at all during the season, even in the case of injuries or clearly being a much better option.

j/c:

I hope the deal gets done.

It looks like we don't wish to part ways with Baker, instead we wish to destroy him. hmmm he cheated with Dee???

Look we are going to pay for Baker regardless and are forced to release him eventually. So why don't we get something for him and get him to go to a NFC team so we pay a large portion of his salary. Any case will have us paying a lot anyways. Eat the pride and dump him and give him his freedom. What he does with it is up to him.

We have decided that he will never play here again.

I have one question what do the Female fans feel about our new QB?

Baker is decided no matter what he will not play here. We might have Darnold as our backup too start???

Have to maximize any return. Even if it is to get a 5th instead of a 6th rounder - or 4th instead of a 5th.

Carolina is a bad team. They have a WR who publicly said "Noooo" to wanting Baker on their team. It doesn't sound like a place to have success, but it's a one year rental.

I was in the mind of getting the most we could for him, I think at this point the sooner he is gone the better. Pay him and release him if need be.

Yeah, if I was Baker, there's no chance at all that I'd sign an extension to play there. Do whatever 2022 rolls out and then hit free agency and take your pick of the suitors.

The Browns ownership and front office decided at some point
In 2021 in order to compete,with the Chiefs Bills Bengals
And Chargers a change in QB was needed
The Browns have moved past Mayfield
The Packers survived Favre moving on without issues
The Niners survived Montana moving on
Why is,it so hard for fans to accept the page on Baker
Has turned. Life goes on. Franchises go on.
It's not like Mayfield took the Browns to great heights
The goal is greater than the player
The goal is to get to the SB.
Baker was never going to get them there

You forgot the "at all costs" part. Also the "no matter how slimy" part.

TWSS

I honestly think the best path for both sides, the FO and Baker, is the path neither wants to take, or they feel like it is impossible to take...

The best thing for both parties if for Baker to see the field...whether that be in practice or a preseason game. This does several things...

It allows Baker the chance to change the perception of his maturity and professionalism (ala Garappolo). Teams need to see how he is healing from his injury and they need to see him acting professional. It allows the FO to "double down" on not releasing him, which is what the rest of the NFL wants them to do. The biggest thing it does is buy time. Injuries happen and there will be a QB that goes down. Or if it is deemed/believed that the Browns will not release him...talks will be more likely. While Baker is MIA (injury or not) the media drives the narrative. Baker needs to be seen ( and in a positive way) to help his case. And anything that helps Baker's case will help the Browns' case. Humility, and hard work can go a long way to change a perspective.

This comes with pitfalls. This can't happen without the shared goal of both sides to create a trade. There can be no confusion here. Right now, both sides sitting back is not producing anything...It also means that both sides have to swallow a TON of pride. There is the lockeroom aspect to consider...so they have to work out whether to separate from the team and conduct workouts privately or make it look like he is joining the team and accepting a role. And then both sides need to commit/adhere to it...There is the PR aspect...because you cannot tell me that if this scenario happens, the media would just sit back...They would be swarming. (not necessarily a bad thing if you handle it right)

Don't confuse this scenario with me thinking that it can, should, or would happen. I am not saying that...I am only saying what I think may be the best path to follow in order for both sides to profit. Baker gets traded an starts somewhere, and the Browns get a return even if not much salary relief. It is a risky move, and a difficult one. But the current situation is the media driving the narrative of Baker will never set foot in Berea again much less play for them. And if I am another team...with that knowledge...There is no way that I try to trade for them and give something up...you just wait for them to release him. So the narrative has to change...if you can place ANY doubt into the current narrative, it only helps the Browns and Baker.

But, I don't know if Baker can work the humility angle, and I am not sure the Brown have enough resources to manage the situation...they have their hands full and are already dealing with Deshaun, a new(er) offense, etc....Not to mention, I don't think either party would WANT to.

The Brown's have too much invested in Baker to simply release him. And I think they have no qualms about paying some or even all of Baker's salary this year....But they expect to compensated for doing that and that has been the sticking point.

My entire thought on the situation is that in order to get a deal done, the current narrative has to change....Right now, the Browns are partially hoping that change in narrative comes in the form of an injury to someone's QB...But I think that they need to have more control over that narrative and what I proposed could do that. It isn't easy...its actually kind of ugly...but I do think the best and quickest way for them to part ways is to work together towards that end and to change the narrative.

But will never happen...

He will end up with the panthers

Neither practice nor preseason accomplishes either of the things you brought up. There was nothing on the field that gave indications Baker was immature and there's nothing about a glorified practice, preseason games, that will show potential trade partners what they want to see. Any team that considers trading for Baker would interview him and hold a workout. That would be what they rely on to answer those questions.

At this point it seems it may be the Browns who will have to work at the humility angle you speak of as much or more than Baker.

But teams are expecting the Browns to release him....So they are not going to be "looking to trade for him"...

What I do propose, changes the narrative of releasing him just to get things over with...it also makes Baker visible(in a positive light because the current narrative is immaturity). Both of those things helps move things along if anything will confuse people of what is really going on and in that scenario, if they are even partially considering having him on their team...they are forced to dig deeper which initiates talks...

Both sides need a humility angle for this to work out...But of the 2 the current media generated narrative is about Bakers immaturity...especially after the podcast...regardless, both sides would need to employ it...and both need to work to change a narrative that they haven't had control of and is currently in control of the media...So whether you believe Baker is the incarnation of Farve and Brees, or if you think he is worse than Cordell Stewart...Whether you think the Browns handled this poorly or whether you feel they did everything they could....it doesn't matter...and it doesn't matter to the level of reality of those situations. The current narrative driven by the media is that the Browns are done with Baker and will release him, and Baker is immature....for all tense and purposes...that is the reality. No team is going to trade for an immature player that is going to be released. If the Browns and Baker can change that narrative or even confuse it....things become easier to accomplish in moving on.

I don't think it does. Every other team in the league knows the Browns have painted themselves into a corner here. They know the situation between Baker and the Browns is untenable for the season. A dog and pony show won't convince them otherwise.

I've made it clear that I think Baker can be a starter in the NFL when healthy, watson is certainly the better QB "on the field of play". So when a team tells you and the fan base you're the starter for next season then goes out and tries to land your replacement, getting upset about that makes you immature? You talk about changing one narrative at the same time that you've bought into a different one. lmao

I’m not going to comb thru all the old posts but wondering if the topic has been broached of a straight swap of Mayfield for Darnold. I do NOT think (and never did) that Darnold is a starter but we need a quality backup and to have the Baker drama gone. Exact same guaranteed salary… seems like a no brainer.

I've seen the swap mentioned online and in the media some...But there hasn't been a huge handhold on it. Personally, I don't think a trade like that is made without an agreement with Darnold to restructure his Contract.

Pete, you bring up some very good points. I don't think it will happen because I believe that Baker and his crew feel much the same way that another poster did. The feel mistreated and that is a pile of dog poop. I think it's Baker who backed himself into the corner by acting like a spoiled little brat. He has been immature on and off the field. He thinks he is better than he actually is. He alienates people and he is not a top tier QB. Poor combination when you are looking for a job.

Brissett > Darnold.

The only way I can see that trade happening is to make it possible for Carolina to manage their salary structure. I don't know.......it sounds like a dumb trade, but that is about all I can come up with. Of course, I could be missing something.

What did Matt Ryan do when he heard the Falcons were trying to trade for Watson..?

I did read that the Falcons had the courtesy to notify Ryan before the news went public or came out on social media...but didn't Mat Ryan demand a trade..?

Yeah, I don't think it has a chance of happening either...LOL

Both Baker and the Team backed themselves into this corner...The Browns in their decision to go for Watson makes trading Baker precarious...unless they knew 100% they were getting Watson...they couldn't trade Baker before...and now they have no leverage to trade him later. And Baker...well we are just going to agree to disagree on the level of his immaturity...we both believe it is there...just differ on how much...I am just going to say Bad decisions were made. It added to the perception of immaturity. And I willing to consider it could have been pure immaturity. But I am also willing to consider that he has been given a TON of bad advice from his team...

Regardless of what it really is...the result is the same...he backed himself in a corner and hasn't helped himself...

Which is why I devised my scenario because nothing is going to change unless the narrative changes...

Matt Ryan Makes Admission About Falcons, Deshaun Watson Situation

DANIELA PEREZMAY 3, 2022
link

Editor’s note: This story contains accounts of sexual assault. If you or someone you know is a survivor of sexual assault, contact the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 or at https://www.rainn.org.

Quarterbacks Matt Ryan and Deshaun Watson both enter the 2022 season at the helm of two different organizations than years past. Even though Watson ended up at the Browns and Ryan at the Colts, Watson’s offseason dealings shook things up for the Falcons and catalyzed Ryan’s trade to the Colts.

For days, Atlanta seemed like the likely landing spot for Watson before Cleveland offered the former Texans signal-caller a monster deal. Ryan, who served as quarterback for the Falcons for his entire 14-year career to this point, said on The Ryen Russillo Podcast that had the Watson situation not happened, there would be “a really good chance” Ryan would still be with Atlanta.

“Had none of this gone down? There’s probably a chance, a really good chance,” Ryan told Russillo. “But it did, so when it does, when situations change and the circumstances change, I had always thought—like everybody—when you’re drafted there and you play there, ‘This is where I’m going to play my entire career.’ For 14 years, every day, I woke up, it was to try to help the Falcons win a championship. That had been reciprocated on the other end for me. When that changed, I had to look into it, and it has certainly been a big change, for sure, but a good one. It’s hard to say, but I think honestly it’s more than likely I would’ve probably still been there if circumstances had been different. But I’m excited with where I’m at.”

In March, Watson’s market was hot, with suitors including the Panthers, Falcons, Browns and Saints. It was first reported on March 15 that Atlanta was pursuing the Clemson product when ESPN’s Adam Schefter said the Falcons emerged as a “sleeper team.” Watson personally reached out to Atlanta and had an interest in the franchise, per ESPN’s Dianna Russini. Schefter also reported that Falcons owner Arthur Blank developed a relationship with Watson when the quarterback was the team’s ballboy while playing at Gainesville High in Georgia.

Watson met with Atlanta on March 16, and that same day, it was reported the Falcons informed veteran signal-caller Matt Ryan of their interest in the Houston quarterback. Ryan recalled on the podcast being told about the team’s intentions.

“When free agency starts to pick up and they start to look into what they want to do, I got filled into the loop that they were going to look into Deshaun Watson,” he said. “At that point, I said, ‘O.K., I understand,’ but I also need to look into what I need to look into, and if this doesn’t go down, just find out if this is still the best fit for me.”

Atlanta seemed to be the front-runner in landing the Watson sweepstakes, but eventually lost out when he waived his no-trade clause to join Cleveland on March 18. Ryan was traded to Indianapolis three days later.

Ryan wasn’t the only quarterback caught in the whiplash of the Watson dealings. The Browns’ public breakup with Baker Mayfield has caused a steady back-and-forth between both parties. On April 22, Cleveland general manager Andrew Berry said they were “transparent” with the 2018 No. 1 pick of their intentions in pursuing Watson, though Mayfield has previously said they were not.

Watson still faces 22 active civil lawsuits that accuse the quarterback of sexual assault and sexual harassment during massage therapy sessions. The lawsuits describe accounts that range from Watson refusing to cover his genitals to “touching [a plaintiff] with his penis and trying to force her to perform oral sex on him.” Civil proceedings in the 22 active lawsuits are ongoing.

Watson previously faced 10 criminal complaints. According to Jenny Vrentas of The New York Times, the criminal complaints he previously faced involved similar descriptions, including Watson ejaculating on the massage therapists and either other forms of sexual assault or attempted sexual assault. On March 11, a Harris County grand jury declined to charge Watson on nine complaints, returning nine “no” bills. Nearly two weeks later, another grand jury in Brazoria County declined to charge Watson on a 10th count.

It was reported April 16 that Tony Buzbee, the lawyer representing the 22 plaintiffs, requested records from the Texans that include any nondisclosure agreements and correspondences between the quarterback and Houston’s security staff, coaches and the head trainer. It also asked for communication between the organization and two hotels where Watson reportedly met with massage therapists.

Rusty Hardin, Watson’s attorney, requested medical records from the plaintiffs Saturday to see whether they suffered emotional distress after their encounters with his client in massage sessions.

The NFL is still investigating whether Watson violated the league’s personal conduct policy, in which he could face suspension. The NFL and NFLPA reportedly agreed for former U.S. District Court Judge Sue Robinson to act as an impartial arbitrator to lead the investigation into disciplinary cases similar to Watson’s.

In his introductory press conference with Cleveland, Watson denied assaulting, harassing or disrespecting any woman. No trial dates have been set for any of the 22 active civil cases.

Now in the main role with Indianapolis, Ryan has no ill will toward Atlanta and is looking forward to his new opportunity with the Colts. He’ll have weapons like Pro Bowl running back Jonathan Taylor and wide receiver Michael Pittman Jr. to build up Indianapolis’s offense.

“I loved every minute of it; there’s no doubt about that,” he said. “I’m not bitter about how it ended, but from the football standpoint, I do feel a sense of energy, like a rejuvenation that comes with going into a new place. Really good football team, great teammates, a lot of talent. That part is really, really exciting.”

Guys like Ryan and Jimmy G handled their situation w/class and dignity. Baker displayed his immaturity and sense of entitlement. I had to laugh when Baker mentioned Indy as a landing spot. No way was Indy going from one emotional midget in Wentz to another in Baker. They chose Ryan. He's mature. He is classy. He is professional. The bad thing about him is that he is old and isn't as good as he used to be, but at least he won't bring all the arrogance and immaturity to the locker room like a couple of other qbs.

Yet you never mention that watson demanded a trade because he didn't get to help hand pick the Texans next head coach. How convenient. So is he immature too? So you don't call that arrogance? I see......

You continue to beat that drum and you have to know you are inaccurate.

There's more there but you keep spinning it.

Actually no. Watson demanded a trade right after the GM was hired and right before their HC was named and it's very public that he wasn't happy about it. Sure excuses were made afterwords but all anyone has to do is look at the timing of when he demanded that trade to see the real issue. The claim is he was promised input on naming the GM and HC but it wasn't honored. You know, kind of like being named the starter then the team going out looking to replace you.

People just keep trying to apply the double standard.

Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Texans hours after team names head coach

It appears the Deshaun Watson era is over with the Houston Texans. The relationship has taken center stage this offseason and is fueled by Watson's angst toward owner Cal McNair and Jack Easterby, the tumult reaching fever pitch with the team reneged on promises to include him in helping to identify the team's next head coach -- with further gasoline having been poured on the fire by the hiring of Nick Caserio as general manager. What had not occurred yet, however, was a formal request (read: demand) by Watson to be traded, but the Texans have now reportedly received just that.

Watson has requested to be moved out of Houston, CBS Sports insider Jason La Canfora confirms, news that comes only hours after they named David Culley as the team's new head coach and work to build a new staff around him.

It appears the actual request isn't recent and has nothing to do with Culley, and Watson has continued to shun the Texans front office in their attempts to reach him to potentially open a dialogue into resolving things. That proves Watson is indeed looking to play hardball with the Texans, and to the point he's willing to waive his no-trade clause to make sure he never takes another snap for them in the future. Rumor has it Watson is already eyeing a handful of preferred destinations, with the New York Jets and Miami Dolphins topping his list. Both have the collateral to make a serious offer for Watson, and the Dolphins are currently also owners of several of the Texans 2021 draft picks by way of the Laremy Tunsil trade, but there would be a lot of moving pieces to any sort of trade deal getting done.

For one, Watson must not only approve of the destination -- thanks to the his no-trade clause -- but so must the Texans. And considering the two sides aren't in communication as of late, that will make it that much more difficult to get on the same page regarding what would ultimately be a blockbuster trade. The Texans must also approve of the compensation package, be it Sam Darnold and more or Tua Tagovailoa and more, or a list of other possible scenarios that could also involve teams not mentioned here.

It's feels like a foregone conclusion they would not simply going to give Watson away from peanuts like they did to all-world wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins during the Bill O'Brien era, a move that could be viewed as the genesis of Watson's frustration in Houston, and it's also unclear if they'd prefer to move Watson to the NFC and out of their conference altogether. Furthermore, there's no guarantee they trade him at all -- Caserio recently proclaiming Watson as "our quarterback" -- which could set off a series of seismic football events that potentially include a holdout of some sort. Watson wants to play in 2021 though, but not for the Texans, and he indirectly made it clear via Twitter in late December that the differences are irreconcilable.

"Big Bro told me when they painted you a picture, don't let them paint you another picture."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...exans-hours-after-team-names-head-coach/

But please do go on. I'm sure that you won't be alone trying to crucify one while justifying the other for pretty much the exact same behavior. You are already the second in line.

As usual, he is telling stories. He and 888 spin lie after lie after lie. I have provided proof that Watson did not quit on the Texans because he couldn't choose the HC.

You provided the version you want people to believe. I provided another version and the timing of his demand for a trade lines directly up with the version I posted. I guess those reports must have been lies too? As Tome Petty said, "You believe what you want to believe!". But the timeline for his demand of a trade doesn't line up with your version. But keep spinning it.

j/c...

Deal for Baker getting close?

That could be good news.

Yep, I hope Baker gets out of the circus in Cleveland. One sideshow QB is more than enough.

Hoping it happens soon, one less distraction, albeit minor, is welcome.

What a croc.

If supplying an article is what you consider "Proof" - then Pit supplied "Proof" also and you are simply ignoring his "Proof" and name calling. You spam the boards calling others "Liar" and "Evil" - you cry victim when your BS is called out.

So you guys are okay with winning 7-8 games with Brissett under Center, instead of maybe 10-11 with a healthy Baker Mayfield? All it would take is for Stefanski and Mayfield to pretend they were real adult human beings, with goals that dovetailed. Too much to ask? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Dave, I know you like Baker a lot and you are not like the other guys who attack those who do not agree w/them......so, I want to be careful here. You are a good guy and you and I have disagreed on Baker in the past and we are always respectful. I just don't know if it is fair to project win totals for the team w/the two different QBs. We had a losing record last year despite winning 2 of the 3 games in which he did not play. Also, we lost the other game on a long FG in OT. I think the injury thing has been overstated in regards to how much it affected Baker's play. Again, there is evidence out there to suggest that Baker's issues are due to other factors. I also think Baker burned too many bridges. He crossed some lines that are not crossed.

I could be wrong and you could be correct. Again, I think you are a good guy and don't want to upset you. We just see Baker differently.

Don't worry about me, I'm not porcelain. We differ about how much Mayfield's injury affected his performance. I think you understate it. We heard Troy Aikman say during the GB Christmas game that Baker simply COULD NOT open up and throw effectively to his left. You were an athlete, you should know how hard is is to throw accurately or well with a fubar lead shoulder.

Damage Control...LOL!

I hope it all gets resolved soon. Panthers are a Poop Sandwich ... bottom 2 or 3 teams in the NFL. Be interesting to see.

Wonder if the Browns will have to send a trade pick in order for Panthers to pick up some salary ???? Wouldn't some posters LOVE that ! LOL

I read where Gino Smith looks better than Drew Lock and is beating him out.
If so that puts them under a bad sign.

The Giants will fall apart with Daniel Jones and Mara is out of patience.

Tua is no lock with the Fins. They put tools around him. They wanted DW. It could go bad fast there.

Carolina is looking hard and they are not in a good place with Darnold and Corral. IMO we could pay half his note get a third or take Anderson.

The Bucs are in trouble if Brady goes down. Not hard to imagine Brady getting hurt.

Berry will not panic and rightfully so. All the garbage about nobody wants Baker is BS. It was all about timing. Baker is good enough to help a bunch of teams. If the Browns cut him. He would have a job before the sun set.

I don't think it is either garbage or BS. Houston has who at QB? They didn't accept Baker as part of the trade. Indy chose an old Matt Ryan over Baker. ATL went w/Mariotta over Baker. The Saints chose to re-sign Winston instead of trading for Baker. Seattle, NY, and Carolina have not pulled the trigger.

Btw----I did not insult anyone w/my response, but I don't care for it when people call my opinions "garbage" and "BS."

Since this is a What to do about Baker thread, if I am the Browns, I would not trade Baker if they have to give up a pick. I would not trade him if they had to pay a significant portion of his contract. I would hold on to him and let him sit at home until a team gets desperate enough to give up something of value for him. If no one is willing, let him miss a year and then hope for a compensatory pick. No way would I reward Baker for how poorly he has handled this entire situation.

well, you're not rewarding him or punishing him in either case.... he's still getting his $18.858 million and then gets to enter free agency in March where he WILL get a fat deal, even if it is a shorter "show me" deal at first. It's Win-Win for him and no matter what, he gets to pick where he is going.
What the team does ONLY benefits or hurts the team.


Beyond that, yes... the team's smart move is absolutely to hold onto him until they can get something of value. They don't have to rush or panic; we have the cap space to carry him on the 53, and we can stand to lose a random UDFA for that roster spot.

Only difference with Baker is I believe the Browns FO told Baker that he was the starter but they would explore options if a top 5 QB was available...

I would have zero issue with Baker demanding a trade after we landed Watson... I'm a little surprised he demanded one before because he got hurt that the Browns were trying to upgrade... but, it's his business... if at that point he felt he couldn't trust the team and was unwilling to try and rebuild that trust, then good luck to him...

and yes, similar could be said with Watson... he could have stayed and tried to rebuild that trust with the new group... but at the time, and now, I understood why he wanted out... and with his star power he had the ability to force a trade... there may have been other Texans on the team that wanted out but didn't have the star power to force themselves out... I don't recall hearing anyone specifically that also wanted out... but plenty of guys were frustrated with the Hopkins trade... and plenty were pissed overall with the FO from the inmate comment to Easterby and the Casrio hire...

it's not about rewarding or punishing Baker... it's about doing the best business decision... I agree with you.. Browns should hold onto him for now... no sense in cutting him if you just have to pay his salary anyway... hold him until a team gets desperate to trade something decent for him. I don't care if Browns have to pay his salary this year if they can get a decent draft pick back...

I didn't mean to suggest I thought you were soft. Sorry if that is how I came across. It's just that I have no problem w/people disagreeing w/me if they do so fairly and don't resort to attacks. On the other hand, I have despised bullies since I was a small boy and most found out the hard way when they tried to bully another classmate or kid the neighborhood. I'll fight those kind of guys tooth and nail. So again, I don't think you are soft at all. I was simply disagreeing w/you and being nice about it. Just like you disagree w/me in a gentlemanly manner.

Winston was there. He was their starter and was injured.

Matt Ryan is better than Baker and is a former MVP.

It is debatable to say Mariota is better than Baker.

So nobody wants Baker IMO is not accurate. Many of the quarterback decisions were made and in place before it was decided to go after DW.

If DW went to another team. He was the Browns starter.

That's fair, jay. I probably should have omitted the "rewarding" angle. I had read something about a guy saying "free Baker," and it annoyed me. Of course, no one here knew that I was thinking about that while typing my post. I should not have put that part in there.

Okay, we disagree. That's fine. I just don't like words like garbage and BS attached to my name when I am not trying to deceive anyone. Let's move on. No big deal. you are one of the few guys who actually talk football in this forum and I don't want to lose us conversing.

These teams all felt they had Cleveland over a barrel and asked, why overpay? That is all this is or was. Baker will find a landing spot at some point, OR it just makes the FO look even more incompetent for invoking the fifth-year option than it already does for the DW deal. But nice try Vers. I'm beginning to think this thing with Baker is personal. Did he do something to you or your family? You are relentless, like a dog after a bone bashing him. And I also find your zealous defense of Watson a bit disturbing. I mean it's no problem you want the guy here, but damn man, he very well could be a preditor and we can ALL SEE that. Maybe just turn it down half a notch. That's all I'm saying.

Report: A Baker Mayfield-for-Sam Darnold trade is “very unlikely”


Posted by Charean Williams on June 15, 2022, 7:00 PM EDT
link


A Browns’ trade of Baker Mayfield to the Panthers remains a possibility, but a report Wednesday indicates it won’t be a Mayfield-for-Sam Darnold deal.

Mary Kay Cabot of cleveland.com reports that a Mayfield-for-Darnold swap is “very unlikely” and quotes a source who said he is “confident it’s not happening.”

Such a deal makes sense for both sides given the quarterbacks both are under contract for 2022 at the fifth-year option amount of $18.86 million, which is fully guaranteed. Darnold was drafted two spots after Mayfield, at No. 3 overall by the Jets in 2018.

The Browns want to — and need to — move on from Mayfield after trading for Deshaun Watson. But, per Cabot, they are comfortable with Jacoby Brissett and Josh Dobbs as their quarterbacks in the event Watson is suspended for part or all of 2022. Brissett has started 37 career games and Dobbs none.

Darnold has started 49 career games.

Mayfield, though, still could end up as the starter in Carolina.

The Panthers want the Browns to pay the lion’s share of Mayfield’s salary to do the deal, which is why Mayfield remains a member of the Browns as the offseason programs end.

I wonder if Darnold is saying no thanks. Who’d blame him, going from presumed starter to backup to a backup in godforsaken Cleveland. Not that he’d have much say if Carolina so deemed but they probably want to keep him for the same reason we want him, experienced backup. But I wouldn’t be surprised one but if he made it known to all parties that he wants no part of the Browns.

I think Cleveland's situation is better than Carolina's. I just don't see why the Browns would want Darnold.

Rumors.

I don't see the logic in that trade.

Not losing sleep over Baker. He is not in the Browns plans. He will be gone one way or another.

Let him stay home till he is traded or cut at the end of the season.

He will get a chance to play for someone.

If Baker gets traded to Carolina, here is my guess on how it goes down.....

The Browns might have to pay half or more than half of this deal. However, maybe in some form of the Osweiler deal, gets draft capital back because they are taking on a bulk of the contract. I think this is a scenario many have discussed. But what, instead of capital, it is Robbie Anderson? The guy has publicly tweeted about Mayfield and that might be contentious from the start. He has been wildly considered an analytics dream (from a volume of opportunity perspective) that never lived up to expectations (probably because of Darnold). He did sign a rather large contract that runs through 2023 but not sure how much of the money the Browns would owe in terms of signing bonuses/guaranteed dollars post-trade. His base salary is $1.35MM (the Andrew Berry Special). And let's be honest, after Cooper, there are a lot of question marks/unknowns about DPJ, Schwartz, etc.

Just a thought.

I had actually considered a Baker for Anderson trade, as well. Not sure if it is realistic because I have no knowledge of how teams deal w/the financial aspects of such trades. Anderson is not a bad WR. He has a lot of talent and would be our #2 right away.

I will say that I would not pay that much of Baker's salary. I would just hold on to him if a team isn't willing to take on most of the salary.

Robbie Anderson or Jay-Z?

You decide.

I thought the same thing when Anderson tweeted that out. Methinks he was informed of something.

Panthers might be a dumpster fire, but they're like the Dynasty Patriots compared to what Baker walked into when he was drafted here.

You have become what you claim to despise.

Joel Bitonio statement on Wednesday June 15th, 2022....

“Baker is my guy. I still remember the Thursday night Jets game when he came in and helped lead us to victory. It was honestly one of the more special moments of my career because it had been so long since we won games,” Bitonio told reporters on Wednesday, June 15. “He’s a tough guy and he plays hard. He played his heart out for us and I’ll always respect that. He’s still a friend of mine and we text occasionally. I think, like everyone else, he’s waiting it out to see where he’s going. Baker did a lot for this franchise. He won a lot of games and was a great player for us.”

Joel Bitonio is a class act through and through
He is the best team mate anybody could ask for
But offensive linemen by in large are not as opinionated
As RBs or WRs. They quietly go about their business
Rarely do you hear any offensive linemen speak negative
About QBs they blocked for
Alot of guards, tackles , centers come up through agricultural
Backgrounds or blue collar upbringings.
They are really good people in general
No divas or me 1st attitudes with guys like Bitonio

Sadly, I don't think there's a team out there that thinks Baker can be their starting qb. What would it take for the Browns FO to say, "here, he's yours"? I think the price would be approximately us eating 8 million of his contract. I think any team in the league needing a starting qb would pony up 10 million per season pronto....to get him into minicamp and the OTA's. Nobody needing a starting qb is going wait it out to save a few million or hope that we cut him.

It's looking that way. Our best bet is if someone gets hurt during TC or early in the season. I don't think we should trade him for peanuts and pay most of his salary. Not saying I am right. Just my opinion.

j/c

Wyatt Teller comments on Baker Mayfield....

Now at the end of Cleveland’s minicamp, guard Wyatt Teller — who had been Mayfield’s teammate since 2019 — said he’s wishing the quarterback well.

“I want to see him have success wherever he goes,” Teller said on Thursday, via 92.3 The Fan. “There’s a business side and there’s a personal side. The business side gets a little nasty, but the personal side never changes. We’re all a brotherhood.”

Teller also mentioned that Mayfield was “great at throwing on the move” and “moving in the pocket.”

Mayfield played through an injury to his non-throwing shoulder for most of the season. He ended the year having completed 60.5 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards with 17 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. In 2020, Mayfield completed 62.8 percent of his passes for 3,563 yards with 26 touchdowns and only eight interceptions.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-mayfield-have-success-wherever-he-goes/

Quincy Carrier just ranked Baker at 17th in the NFL yesterday, for what it's worth. He had Watson at 6th. YOu can add one to both of those because he put Brady on top before the numbers started.

Again its the dead zone. These guys make trade possibilities as in the same mode of making a Mock Draft.

As Baker heals up and football get closer to being a reality...so does his value. All this He's no good and nobody wants him. Yeah it would make our trade look better cause what if Baker is actually good and wins - He did with us in 2020 the year everyone is going gaga on DW from. He will sign somewhere and his history has him playing with a chip on his shoulder and he works hard for his comeback. I hope he does well cause I like the kid. If and when he plays the Browns I hope he loses. ??? Do we open with playing against Carolina. It would benefit the Browns to delay the trade as long as possible making the chance to prepare for that first game less and less???

jmho

What to do with Baker?
Keep him, Franchise him next year, and play him every drive that starts after 3 minutes of the first "uarter until the end of the 2nd 'uarter of every game.
Or. Vice versa, give him the first 2 or 3 drives starting at the beginning of the 3rd 'uarter.

It's just one of those days.

IMO I believe we will get more for Baker than most people think. QB's are always at a premium. Most teams reach for college QB's in the draft just for their potential. Many, as we know, don't pan out or should I say most. Baker is a known commodity, albeit with flaws as we all know, but there is talent. He's probably in the top 20-25 in the league. For a team that has below average QB's on their roster or older guys that will need to be replaced in a year or two Baker would be a good option. Like pitching in Baseball someone will pay more because of the position.

Good news. However, this is the concerning part of the tweet.

"I also know that the process of collecting information and insights into Mayfield is still ongoing."

That video is funny.

Baker highlights - a succession of incomplete throws or interceptions. JG highlights - a series of TD's and completed passes.

No matter any person's feelings and opinions on each player - watching the highlights without knowing either QB you'd be left thinking one was possibly the worst QB ever to throw a football in the NFL or the CFL and the other was a bit of a stud.

Thanks for taking one for the team... I figured as much lol.

Analysis from former players is mostly consistent when it comes to Baker and Jimmy G no matter what highlights are used. Denying that only confirms one's bias.

LOL.

I commented on the highlights.
I didn't comment on the former players opinions or comments.

Please don't lie or make false statements that are intended to misrepresent what I post. Thanks

I am permitted to comment on what players have said about Baker and you have no authority to stop me.

Yes you are. Responding to a posters comment (but not being mature enough to actually respond to the name) with a true statement and saying "denying that only confirms one's bias" is a direct implication that another poster wrote something to deny what you stated. That's not the case.

You can try to manipulate this - but we see the board - we see your words and what you imply.

Always w/the "You" and the "We."

Bullying by posters who don't like a particular message.

I will be very direct. A huge majority of ex-players think that Baker stinks. They question his maturity. The talk about how he struggles in the pocket. I don't care if the "we" crowd likes that or not and making things personal won't change the fact that I can post examples to support my opinion and I don't need others to help me.

Excellent.

On the video you posted - the highlights on the show were exactly as I mentioned. If you didn't know the players and watched those highlights - you'd walk away with the impressions I mentioned before. That's what I commented on and that is a fact.

Nobody is bullying you. Grow a set.

Baker doesn't play here. Your endless persistence in proving that everyone who has ever thrown a football is better than him is, well, a little infantile.

Go talk to your "team." The "We" crowd. LMAO

Showing that video confirms ones bias.

Someone said that nobody thinks Baker is a better b than Watson, ... on one of these threads.

Well. The two 'bs are neck and neck in my book, and Watson takes too many sacks, and Baker is more likely to explode for 6 Td's in one game, so there are at least times when during that time Baker is the better 'b than Watson.
So Yes.

Baker, Tannehill, Watson, Nick Foles, and my other two older 'uarterbacks, they are dudes I can believe in, and Any could be better than the others on any given day. And to Think \ -- Foles was without a team 2 months ago, the Browns could have had 3 if they had signed Foles, on the Browns at the same time.
Imagine it. Foles, Baker, Watson, a Dream Team for sure.

Baker has one game with 5 passing TDs. Watson had 3 games with 5 TDs thrown, and has played fewer overall games. Baker didn't throw more than 2 TDs in a single game last season.

Not sure how you reached your more likely to explode for 6 conclusion.

First, I want you to post facts that the huge majority of ex-players think Mayfield stinks. Funny that there seems to be a lot of posts form current players supporting him and his future. Second, you get so defensive when anyone questions your obvious over-stated bias against Mayfield but attack like a rabid dog anyone who questions Watson's clear and published character flaws. You are the only person left in this forum that feels it's his duty and responsibility to attack Mayfield whenever the opportunity presents itself while the huge majority of real Browns fans here have moved on from Mayfield weeks ago. With Watson facing what appears to be a huge suspension, you think it's your responsibility to defend Watson no matter the situation presented to you. Only you would believe that if Watson gets a year suspension he is still the lord and savior of the Browns.

You can give the Mayfield crap a rest buddy, everyone has moved on but you. Except the fact your love toy Watson won't be playing some or most of 2022 because he deserves to be suspended.

I wonder if Purp will chastise you for saying "lord and savior" and "love toy?"

After all, he went ballistic because I said "your hero" to mac.

Way to defend the We Team. You are no better than they are.

.

Trade baker to the giants. we all know danny dimes aint that dude.

I hope he goes to Seattle. That's my oldest grandson's favorite team. He watched the Browns lose so much growing up that I couldn't convince him to follow them. His dad even asked me once why I would try to do that to him. He's a Bengals fan.

j/c

With Watson likely to get an indefinite suspension (I believe AT LEAST until all cases are settled) we should be looking for a team who could send us back their/a starter in exchange for Baker. What teams fit that bill with a "mobile" ish QB? (I chuckle when I read about how mobile Brissett is.)

The first team that comes to mind is New Orleans. Winston is not good...but better than Brissett. I think Drew Lock would be better than Brissett. Tua is bad...but probably better than Brissett. Daniel Jones is awful but he's been a starter...let him compete with Brissett (side bonus is that Baker goes to another horribly-run franchise where he will fail with little supporting cast and the haters can continue to leave out context).

In the end though...nothing trumps the Seahawks and Panthers. Seahawks IF Carroll thinks he has a playoff team THIS year (as he can otherwise withstand a losing season and still keep his job) and Panthers if Ruhle can convince HIS FO that saddling him with Darnold is completely unfair (as he otherwise CANNOT withstand a/another losing season and still keep HIS job).

If they go into TC with Brissett as the likely starter, the season is over before it starts.

Winston isn't going to be traded. The Saints could have went after Baker. Instead, they re-signed Winston.

I don't think Lock is better than Brissett. I haven't seen any reports about the Giants and Browns in trade talks.

I think Brissett will be our qb at the start of the season unless the Browns trade for Jimmy G. I am just not sure how they could manage that financially. I'm pretty sure Jimmy already makes more than Baker. Also, he hasn't even been able to throw a football yet. He is scheduled to start throwing at the end of this coming week. Not sure if that will happen or not.

Right now, everyone has an opinion on the subject. No one really knows what's going to happen. I feel our FO is trying to trade Baker I don't believe they want him here at the beginning of the season. If and when DW is suspended, most likely when, I feel Brissett will be our QB. Lastly, Lord knows how long DW suspension will be. We'll just wait and see and go from there.

No, I did not.
You claiming as much means you ENTIRELY missed the point of what I actually did say, or, like many other things, you just want to misrepresent what ACTUALLY happened so you can continue to play your insane little martyr act and keep getting the attention you crave.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1951331
I called you out for the way you constantly cry wolf over people supposedly calling you names or calling you a "liar" and in damn near the same breath you will then turn around and do EXACTLY what you just whined about others doing. PERIOD.

I still don't understand why its so important to stomp on Baker.

What I do know. Kurt Warner had good things to say about Baker. Chris Simms had good things to say about Baker.

What I do know. Is more an more interest in obtaining Baker seems to be surfacing even though it might come at a high cost. Two teams are in the running, SeaHawks and the Panthers. SeaHawks reportedly are looking to extend Baker to more than one year. I think it is proving out that Baker is NOT THE BUM you make him out to be.

And with suspensions looming as well as many fans disgusted with us signing Watson the trade might have been a bad one. So far we are talking about Jordan Davis, Baker and 2 more 1st round picks for a QB who we don't know when he will play AT ALL.

Baker and the Browns are done with and over. I hope he does well except against us.

Watson I truly wished he was a kid of character and treated women like his mom taught him. ALAS he is turning out to be a total scum bag. Not somebody I can be proud of being my QB. But I will always love my Browns even when they make mistakes. Here I thought we were finally out of Expansion mode....and now we are sucked right back into mediocrity. Great.

If the Browns sent Baker and paid $10MM of his deal, the Saints would be crazy to pass that up. And I will vomit watching Winston in a Browns uni..but he's better than Brissett. I don't think it has a chance of happening though...the devil you know versus the devil you don't for the Saints.


I think Lock is better than Brissett...but I think we'd both agree that Brissett/Lock or Lock/Brissett is significantly better than Brissett/Dobbs. Daniel Jones is awful...but he's better than Dobbs. He's cheap at approx $6.5MM and his contract expires after '22. I too have not heard a peep about trading for Jones.


Jimmy G's contract for '22 is in the $25MM range...so your now-underlined point above is a huge issue. The 49ers don't need a QB back so Baker doesn't help in a trade...and what do the Browns have in draft capital to rent Jimmy G for a year?

I believe we are stuck with Brissett and hopefully they find an upgrade over Dobbs. I like Dobbs' story and understand he's quite a smart and good guy...but he's not an NFL QB.

The Browns have kept their quarterback room in tact for 5.9 months.
Think about that.

Edit: it was in January that, on the MKC plain dealer podcasts, I last heard of talks of the Browns searching for a viable option at Qb, and I dismissed it as one does, but Wham! they signed Watson, and disowned Baker.
(What's wrong with Baker again? answer- Egos.)

Now, today, as this, beatdown by the league against Watson on the Browns becomes eminent, and all that's left is Brissett, WSU is again, now trying to find a way, to rationalize the Browns getting a real option at quarterback,
(and the Browns apparently have still disowned Baker, (Egos)
January - to June 26. 5.9 months. <clarification

I guess if you choose to ignore the posts I made from his own team mates. I guess you think those that didn't play on the team or share the locker room with him know better because it supports you agenda.

Just speculating or airing a few thoughts:

Baker and JG probably are seen by many as not being too far apart. JG more stable and 'professional' - Baker more talent. JG had a chance with a really good team last year and wet the bed when it mattered. Baker played through and injury and looked like hot garbage - after finishing a strong 2021 performance. Regardless of stats - Baker had a PFF grade for the last half of 2020 rated inside the top 5 of all QB's. Some might prefer the ultimate professional - some might prefer the fire/passion/talent of Baker and deal with the potential immaturity. What's big is that it sure sounds like Baker is more advanced on his recovery. That's good for the Browns.

It is also potentially good for the Browns that it seems / feels like his market value has taken an uptick recently. Might be another insight into why/how Berry has been spot on in his evaluation of Baker's value. I'd put money that many other GM's would have panicked and traded away Baker earlier in the process and got less for him.

I still think the Browns are going to be on the hook for a minimum of $8-10 million. Even a decent team like Seattle that could maybe compete for a play off slot and might want to "win now" has to realize that Baker is on a one year deal - without a contract extension (and Baker is in a weak position - who doesn't doubt he would hold out for top 15 QB money?) the franchise tag is expensive - so we're talking probably a one year rental. A team like the Panthers are just in such a bad place - Darnold is bad imo - and they have $$$ tied up in him. They are not a good team. Why give up any draft capital knowing no matter what you do - you are going to be bad and Rhule is probably gonski next year.

Fair thoughts, mgh.

A little while back, somewhere on social media, I saw something about Cleveland's "plan B," if Watson is suspended for the whole season. Granted, any jack-hole with a social media account can call themselves an expert and claim to have inside sources (it's not like just *anyone* can get a Twitter account. They just don't hand those out, amirite?). But this guy said that if Watson is gone for the year than it would be Baker for Jimmy G. SF is moving on, Lance is their guy. I guess the salary savings is what would make this attractive to SF? I imagine this guy just pulled it out his keester but made it sound like the teams have been working on this. I mean, Jimmy for a season over Brissett, sure.

As you said, when it mattered most, Jimmy did not come through. When was the last time we had a QB who had a knack for carrying a team in the 4th quarter/OT when the game was on the line? Honestly, I cannot remember.

I agree that there seems to be more rumblings about a Baker trade, but it feels like white noise. We've been hearing this off and on for months. I remember the 2nd day of the draft when someone tweeted that Baker would be gone by 4:00.

I saw somewhere that he is fully healed, not sure if accurate or not. That was thought to be the biggest hurdle in moving him.

Truth be told, I look forward to him moving on, and playing elsewhere. I want to see how he does. Was that 8-game stretch in 2020 where he was a PFF top-5 QB the true Baker? Or was the other 8 games of 2020 where he was rated in the 30s closer to the truth? Or somewhere in between? I am curious to see how he does with another coaching staff and another roster. And, yes, to move on. I am tired of all of this and looking forward to football.

I think the 2020 stretch was closer to the real Baker than the 2021 stretch. But for certain I think it's some place in between. But that's me. If the Seattle trade happens I think we'll get to see what Baker can do - Carroll is a good coach. The Seahawks are a decent team with at least one stud WR. If Baker went to someplace like the Panthers - I think it'd be a dumpster fire. It's interesting that, other than speculation about taking on some of his contract, there is no speculation (that I have seen) about draft compensation. that's going to be interesting to see too.

It's more Alarming to me that the Browns apparently are giving up on Baker Mayfield who all can see is obviously a good quarterback, than any positive that Watson could eventually prove to be is doing to quell that alarm.

If Seattle determines that they are a playoff team IF they have a better QB...why can't the Browns owners and FO get there as well? Eat the turd...mend the bridge...say you are sorry...and make one last run together (both sides that is). Baker vs Brissett? Not even remotely close. I still see Lock coming back to us as part of a deal for Baker. Which gives me remarkably little comfort/

Who really cares anymore?

You keyboard warriors would go into DT's if you didn't have Baker to type about anymore.

If Watson cannot play baker is our best option at qb. I think the idea that the players in the clubhouse would reject him is totally wrong because above all else they want to win and baker gives them the best chance to do that.

I think if baker were to decline to play with us he would forfeit the $18 mill. But I also think we can offer this opportunity to baker as a win win. He can show his skills are still there, his injuries have healed and that he is a team player. At the end of the season , assuming he is successful, he will have multiple offers of multi year deals.

He should be asked to tc and whatever coach has been offended by him needs to get over it and put the team ahead of personal feelings.

I don't think any apologies are necessary. Its a business, and Baker knows that. But I agree he's the much better option over Brissett, and everybody involved needs to put on their big boy pants and do what's best for the team, and in Baker's case, his career. That said, there's almost no chance it happens. Oh well, so it goes ...

If Baker is traded to Seattle , Seahawks fans will be disappointed knowing Mayfield's
Ceiling is playoffs at best
Baker needs a rock solid running game behind him to make throws downfield
Seattle's offense can't be built around Baker's limitations
The NFC West is not a cakewalk
Baker will have to absolutely play the best ball of his career in order
To even get Seattle in the conversation for the playoffs
Their schedule is not easy
The Hawks have the worst defense in the NFC.
If Baker is starter in Seattle , he cant be wetting his pants in the 4th q.
Throwing picks and being unable to win close games

it will be see interesting to see what he does. I think last year should be thrown out the window.

I think that w/out Watson, we have absolutely no chance whether it be Brissett, Baker. or Lock. Jimmy G would give us a chance, but I can't see how that trade works financially. The AFC is freaking loaded.

At this point, Baker gives you the best chance.

Aren’t they saying garrapolo cannot even throw yet. He may come to tc not even able to rip it. He may not be 100% by opening game. I would not trade for a wounded qb. Meanwhile we have a healthy qb on the roster right now. We need to heal the wounds and put baker and the browns back together. In a very real sense, our season depends on it

Aren’t they saying garrapolo cannot even throw yet? He may come to tc not even able to rip it. He may not be 100% by opening game. I would not trade for a wounded qb. Meanwhile we have a healthy qb on the roster right now. We need to heal the wounds and put baker and the browns back together. In a very real sense, our season depends on it

Yes, if you scroll up you will see that Jimmy G isn't scheduled to even begin throwing until the end of the week.

Baker asked to be traded. The Browns aren't the ones who need to mend a damn thing. Our season is done if we don't have Watson. I wonder how many Baker fans have contacted the league office or folks like Florio complaining about Watson and demanding a stiff penalty?

Browns fans have a long history of backing the wrong party and they are doing so again.

You're blaming Browns fans because Watson can't keep it under his washcloth during a rubdown? LMAO!

No. But, don't let the truth stop you from getting a dig in.

Browns fans don't have any real control over who the team signs and who plays. That would fall on the owners, and who the owners keep around as Managers.

Didn't you hear, Baker asked to be traded after getting some flack by the team. We cant have that kind of distraction on our team! Or character issue! /s

Never said they did.

GC.
Football, should be reminded that the biggest story in football every year, needs to be what happens on the field.

Baker will be under much scrutiny if he starts in Seattle
He is replacing a QB who has played a very high level
For many years .
He has big shoes to fill.
When Cleveland drafted him all he had to do was get the team
To .500 and make stupid 1st down arm signals
If he scrambled for a 1st down to win the hearts of the fans
Baker will be given a fair chance to win the job if
Traded to Seattle.
But this is his last chance to salvage his career

Yep. Dirty, dirty Browns fans. Guess we're supposed to get on our knees and bow to Deshaun the savior, like some of our fans are.

I find it hilarious that Vers thinks he is of sufficient character to point out character flaws in others. You can't make this crap up!

^ I keep trying to figure out this generalization, but I can't be sure who you mean unless you elaborate.
Especially the long history part.
( "told what to think much?") I said to myself in a mirror.

I think baker asked to be traded after some idiot leaked to the press that the browns wanted an adult in the qb room. I would say that needed to be mended. If the nfl rules a season suspension for Watson, you know, I know and everybody else knows that we need to fix this relationship and get him on the field in tc. If the browns and baker’s agent sit down with baker he can see the huge advantages to playing with the browns. At the end of the season he can move on and can write his own ticket.

You appear to prefer that we go with an inferior qb and the season be done than do everything we can to repair the relationship and get a legit starter that gives us a real chance for the playoffs.

Just because he hates the first QB to win a playoff game for the browns in what, 30 years?

Just a general comment.

There seems to be enough smoke about a Baker trade to the Hawks or Panthers to make it seem real.

Any team that wants Bake as their QB would seemingly want him in for all of camp to have him ready to go by seasons start. That leads me to think something will get done in the next several weeks. It also doesn't hurt that there seems to be two teams who have interest.

I am not going to try to guess what we might get or how much of Bakers contract we will have to absorb, but if there are 2 teams with interest, that will help on both fronts. Bakers salary is already factored in to the cap for this year, so I don't really care how much we end up paying, we will still save something, assuming we don't pay it all.

As for a pick, I don't know, but with a couple of teams with interest, it probably won't be totally bottom of the barrel. If i was berry, I might seek a conditional pick based on how Baker plays or if the team signs him to an extension.

Keith I agree that Baker would be our best option but I also truly believe the Baker Browns is a BURNT BRIDGE situation with no turning it around. We are stuck with Brissett unless we and a lost season. Next 4 after that well keep in mind that would be with a Watson who did not play for 2 seasons so he might be rusty. So we might be talking about 3 seasons of great play...then what? There will be no more baggage looming over his head and he will get a contract that might be double of this one. And there is no guarantee we will be the one paying it??? All this we got him for 10 years is not true we got him for 4 years that is all. Front seat for the next contract but not secured.

jmho

j/c

I'm really struggling to get my mind around the likelihood that DW will not play a snap in '22...the FO+ will 'roll' with Brissett and try to make us feel good about that...then we trade the best available QB on our roster for a cookie and maybe a Drew Lock.

I have come to realize I will have to get some medical miracles in my favor and live longer. I want that Championship before I go!!!

jmho

What sucks about this whole situation, is that this team is built to win now. if we have to wait another year or 2 to see DW play, will we have a team that can go all the way still?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=e373a43a5a8541cbae5ab4a636b9a53c

Very disturbing fact about Jimmy G's ability to throw long. To think that this would be considered an upgrade - not!

Quoted for truth. Only not the way you intended it.

You mean that isn't the right party?

Here's the funny part. Watson demanded a trade in Houston. Then you have all of the sexual allegations on top of it. It seems the whole glass houses and throwing stones analogy applies quite well here.

That will remain a question most will ask but the reality is that as soon as next year, the players on the team with contracts already exceed the planned salary cap for next year. The Browns have 8 free agents next year and it is going to take some good cap manipulation for the team to keep all those players or even think about any FA's. In 2024, the situation becomes worst. You can only kick the can down the road so long before it affects your ability to keep your good players. We got a brief taste of it this year with the release of Tretter and Landry. Expect even more cap moves in the next 2-5 years from kicking the can down the road.

If Watson is suspended for 10 games or more, the contract year will toll.

Current 5-year(not 4-year) contract runs 2022-2026. If he is suspended for the 2022 season, then his contract rights are extended to 2027. That's another thing to start talking about. If a complete suspension occurs, I believe his 2022 $1,035,000 salary will be the same in 2023. So, we will have an extra $45M in salary cap in 2023 that we aren't currently accounting for.

I hate the Deshaun Watson signing from a personal standpoint, but if he can get his act together, make reparations and get back into football shape after two years away from the game. The Browns are better off with a full year suspension, then make a run in 2023, rather than hoping Watson gets 7-9 games in 2022. Missing 7-9 games, with Brissett at the helm, most likely takes us out of playoff contention.

Thinking about cap situations in the future, just bear in mind. All future considerations are based on current cap availability. The expected growth over the next 4 years due to new tv contracts is 8-10% per year, plus any cap carry over, which the Browns currently have $41M, without any Baker Mayfield relief. I expect they might still make another signing or two that could chop some of that off, but the Browns aren't currently in cap hell for 2023.

8-10% in 2023, 10% would add $21,770,000 to the current cap
8-10% in 2024, 10% would add ANOTHER $23,947,000 to the 2023 cap or $45,717,000 to the current cap.

It is strange. Baker is condemned for requesting a trade and sitting himself out for the final game of the injury plagued season. Deshaun requested a trade and left his team without a quarterback for an entire season and not a peep about his integrity and loyalty. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Extremely correct, and accurate.

You are free to follow Baker to his new team if you think the Browns and Watson are such scum bags. No one will stop you. Rooting for a team is not slavery and you are not an indentured servant. Likewise, I will root for whom I want to root for and you can't shame into thinking otherwise.

True, however, you guys are neglecting to mention one very important point.

Clowney said he's a good dude.

He made a factual statement. Period. Only in your eyes does his stating FACT means he's a Baker fan.

Strangely, you were neither thought of nor mentioned in my post. Get over yourself! I don’t give a flyin crapola what you do or don’t do.

You still confused how things get off topic and into personal attacks? Or you clear on it now?

There you go trying to silence him again! Once again, I didn't think purple was needed to show the sarcasm.

But you know, telling you that you can go root for another team, well that's different.

No. Where was the personal attack?

Pretty much the same place it is when you claim it happens to you.

I think I'm going to be quite upset if DW is out for the year...Brissett is the starter with Dobbs as #2...AND Baker is dumped. They need to figure this out as you stated. If Baker wants paid, all he has to do is show up. The ball is in the court of the FO. If they can get themselves to tell him to come back...he will. He isn't walking away from nearly $19MM. The FO does not need to double-down on mistakes with QBs. If they can't turn Baker into someone who can reasonably compete with Brissett or get Baker back for the last year on a roster thought to be SB-worthy...then they should immediately be on the hottest of hot seats.

With the NFL being Not-For-Long a self-inflicted, lost year is an eternity...especially with the roster they think they have at the moment.

I'm surprised through all this that Baker Mayfield has had such a loyal following from the fanbase
He's not even in the top 5 of the all time Brown QBs.
He is a serviceable QB. Very streaky.
For a 1st RD pick overall, he failed to deliver at the end of the day

It is my opinion that some people can't admit they are wrong or they were so hopeful that they can't see the truth. There is a ton of evidence that proves he is a bottom tier starting qb. The immaturity issues are real. The lack of accountability and blaming others is not what a leader does. The fact that other qbs were chosen over him and that he still hasn't been traded for is even crazier than I thought. His fans will keep on trashing anyone who points out the truth. Hopefully, that will die down once some other team takes a chance on him.

Willie you hit on the two key points. First, without question Baker is our best qb…by far. Second, even tho he is a quality starter we will virtually give him away. Put those two facts together and it makes no sense to make a move right now. Especially since we will be paying a large part of his salary. Hang on to him.

However, I think we need to do more than that. I know several have made the point that baker has burned bridges here. I am actually not sure who lit the match, but any burned bridge can be replaced, any hurt feeling can be salved. We just have to see clearly our goal of winning this year and set about to do it. And convince Baker that it is in his self interest to play with the Browns.

Our players will welcome baker because they want to win and he gives us the best chance. Any coach who feelings are hurt should get over it and put the team first. Is this going to be difficult?? Heck yes. Things that are worthwhile often are. We just need to work hard at it for the guy or of the team!

j/c

Where does Stefanski sit in all this? After all, Watsun pouted because he wasn't involved in picking the coach in Texas, and sat out a year.

Watson didn't pick Stefanski, either - he picked money. Guaranteed. How long will it be till he demands a new coach here?

Just questions.

arch, while that is in Pit's sig........Watson did not leave because he wanted to pick the coach. I posted numerous articles on the real reasons that led him to sit out.

Actually, overthecap.com projects the planned cap for 2023 at 225M which is adding $21,766,067 to the 2022 cap. As of today, the Browns cap liabilities for 2023 is $256,824,672 which is $31,824,672 over the planned projected cap. Currently, the Browns have $42,091,718 to use for carryover to 2023 if they make no more moves this year. That currently leaves the Browns with $10,267,046 left to address their 20 UFA's, 3 RFA's, 16 ERFA's, the 2023 draft and any eligilble FA's from another team.

2023 Unrestricted Browns Free Agents (20)
Baker Mayfield (UFA) Age: 28 (5), Chris Hubbard (UFA) Age: 32 (9), Ronnie Harrison (UFA) Age: 26 (5), Ethan Pocic (UFA) Age: 28 (6), Stephen Weatherly (UFA) Age: 29 (7), Kareem Hunt (UFA) Age: 28 (6),
Taven Bryan (UFA) Age: 27 (5), Isaac Rochell (UFA) Age: 28 (5), Jacoby Brissett (UFA) Age: 31 (7), Greedy Williams (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Chase Winovich (UFA) Age: 28 (4), Sheldon Day (UFA) Age: 29 (6),
Sione Takitaki (UFA) Age: 28 (4), Javon Wims (UFA) Age: 29 (4), Charley Hughlett (UFA) Age: 33 (8), D'ernest Johnson (UFA) Age: 27 (4), Dakota Allen (UFA) Age: 28 (4), Hjalte Froholdt (UFA) Age: 27 (4),
John Kelly (UFA) Age: 27 (4), Joshua Dobbs (UFA) Age: 28 (6)

2023 Restricted Browns Free Agents (3)
Joseph Charlton (RFA) Age: 26 (3), Michael Dunn (RFA) Age: 29 (3), Reggie Robinson (RFA) Age: 26 (3)

2023 Browns ERFA (16)
ERFAs are veteran free agents who have yet to accrue three seasons in the NFL. Instead of becoming an unrestricted free agent that can sign with any team, their original team holds exclusive negotiating rights.
Blake Hance (ERFA) Age: 27 (2), A.J. Green (ERFA) Age: 25 (2), Ja'Marcus Bradley (ERFA) Age: 27 (2), Parnell Motley (ERFA) Age: 26 (2), Herb Miller (ERFA) Age: 26 (1), Johnny Stanton (ERFA) Age: 29 (2),
Nate Meadors (ERFA) Age: 26 (1), Miller Forristall (ERFA) Age: 25 (2), Curtis Weaver (ERFA) Age: 25 (2), Nakia Griffin-Stewart (ERFA) Age: 27 (1), Elijah Nkansah (ERFA) Age: 29 (1), Alex Taylor (ERFA) Age: 26 (1),
Perrion Winfrey (ERFA) Age: 23 (1), Willie Harvey (ERFA) Age: 27 (2), Luther Kirk (ERFA) Age: 27 (1), David Moore (ERFA) Age: (1)

In 2024, overthecap.com projects the planned cap to be 256M which is adding 31M to the 2023 cap number. As of today, the Browns cap liabilities for 2024 is $255,529,954 which is $470,046 under the planned projected cap. That would leave the Browns with $470,046 (not including any carry over) to address their own FA's, the draft, and adding any FA's from other teams. The Browns currently have 9 players schedule to be Unrestricted Free Agents in 2024:

RFA (9)
Jedrick Wills (UFA) Age: 25 (4), Donovan Peoples-Jones (UFA) Age: 25 (4), Harrison Bryant (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Jordan Elliott (UFA) Age: 27 (4), Grant Delpit (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Corey Bojorquez (UFA) Age: 28 (6),
Jacob Phillips (UFA) Age: 25 (4), Nick Harris (UFA) Age: 26 (4), Drew Forbes (UFA) Age: 27 (5)

Now I'm confident that Berry will work this out one way or another but expect to see some major changes coming to the makeup of the team over the next 2-years. One of the issues I see going forward is the number of players that Berry is spreading bonus pay into void years. Not that many yet but it appears like he's using this to keep kicking the can down the road. Conklin has cap bonus charge for 2023 of 3M. Anthony Walker Jr has a $593,000 charge in 2023, Clowney has a 1.6M charge in 2023, and Hooper 7.5M in dead cap. In 2024, the Browns have bonus cap charges for Conklin 3M, Clowney 1.6M, John Johnson 3.75M, Anthony Walker Jr $593,000.

It is amazing between the two of you , you still cannot figure it out. Hatred clouds the vision and clogs the brain cells. Nobody, and I mean noooooobody is declare baker a better qb than Watson. Some are repulsed by Watson ‘s personal issues but no one denies he is the better qb on the field. But right now it does not look like deshaun is an option for the coming year. So the folks you are condemning are simply saying baker is the best choice of what we have available to us. Unless the hatred is totally clouding your vision you know that to be true.

The difference between the vast majority of browns fans and you two and a couple of others is that most want us to put our best qb out there and try our best to make something of the season and you two are willing to play an inferior qb and wash the season down the drain. Why?? Because you hate baker. So sad!!

"Strangely, you were neither thought of nor mentioned in my post. Get over yourself! I don’t give a flyin crapola what you do or don’t do."

Sound familiar?

Actually my response referred to the vast majority of browns fans, not me. So, take another whack at it. I give you credit you are the master of the non responsive response.

I don't need another "whack" at it. I think Baker is a poor qb and is emotionally immature. I think that is why the Browns did not extend him after his "good" year last year. I think that is why Houston didn't take him as part of the trade. I think that is why teams have passed on him thus far. I think that is why so many former NFL players feel the same way I do about him. Nothing said on a message board changes that.

So, paraphrase why Watson sat out. Thanks.

Wasn't it because Houston was a complete ish-show? They were trading away anyone worth a damn for peanuts. BoB was running the roster into the ground, and the President of football ops (IIRC), the guy that was pretty much universally hated, overruled the results of an executive search to hire his buddy as the GM. Then they hired the most underwhelming guy in NFL history to be their HC.

The team was a dumpster fire. Now you can argue the merits of requesting a trade under these circumstances, but it's counterproductive to the convo to pretend they aren't there.

It was a build up of things. There were issues of BOB trading away players for almost nothing in return. BOB talked to DeAndre Hopkins, perhaps the best WR in football, and said he wanted to trade him for culture issues. He compared him to the murderer Hernandez. BOB also didn't like Hopkins bringing the mothers of his children around. They got almost nothing in return for trading good players away. The biggest thing was the alleged racism w/in the organization. The owner referred to the inmates running the asylum when Kaep was kneeling. Then, came the George Floyd thing and Watson started attending protests. The former owner's son was now in control and Houston hired a professional search team to hire the new GM. That team put two black men at the top of their list. Houston completely ignored their advice and failed to follow through on their promise to make Watson part of being in the loop. The Texans hired a white guy. Watson said he would not play for them again. The biggest issue was race and also the incompetence of the organization. It's true that Watson demanded the trade after the new coach was hired, but he was a black man. Watson had already committed to not playing for Houston before that.

I think I have most of that correct. The articles are in the Watson threads. I posted them after some said he wanted out because he could not choose the coach. Also, I don't think that Watson ever lobbied to have BOB fired even though most of the team hated the guy........and that includes JJ Watt. Also, guys like Watt and other Houston players backed Watson throughout the process.

None of that makes him a good guy. Perhaps he was wrong to demand a trade? But, some people repeat things so often they become accepted as the truth when it is not the truth at all.

Yes, and the race issue was huge.

arch, here is one article on it.

Here is one more and then I will stop.

That may have been a part of it? You can see some articles that Vers has posted supporting that as a reason.

There are dozens of articles sighting the lack of input on the selection of the Head Coach as being the reason - or maybe it was the tipping point. Here's one:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/08/houston-texans-deshaun-watson-unhappy-gm-hiring-process

What I don't get - if he was leaving because of the racial slurs by the owner - why would he care who was the next HC? Bottom line he quit on the team and demanded a trade. One reason really isn't any better than the other for the fans of the team or the teammates he left behind.

I think he was gone before the HC thing. He did want to have some say because he was promised, but Culver was a black man. The timing coincides w/the coach thing, but as numerous articles point out, Watson wanted out for quite some time. But again, people can believe what they want.

I do think some people might not like Watson due to the race angle, but I also believe the Browns have been very progressive when it comes to hiring minorities and females. I can't see that as an issue at all.


Edit: I think your article is factual from all I have discovered. It left out some things, but the other stuff is true. Watson did like Bienemy [spelling?] and even contacted Mahomes about it. Believe me, I read dozens and dozens of articles on this subject.

Didn't you falsely accuse the guy of trying to shame you? Yeah, you did. Didn't you twist his words and go off topic? Yeah, you did.

Don't you complain that you feel other people do that to you? Yeah, you did.

Did you fool anybody? Nope, your act is predictable at this point.

You could put me on ignore if you like. I did that to Pit today and the day has been so much more enjoyable.

Just looking for a little clarification based on clear communication and intent. It might read that you are suggesting that some people might not like Watson because he is Black? Is that on the board here? In Houston? In the media? Browns fans? Or just in general? I'm not sure exactly where you were going.

No, I didn't mean it that way. Although, I see now that it could be perceived that way. I meant that some people not like that Watson was upset about racial issues going on in the country and the organization and the Kaep situation. Some might say that has no place in sports.

If I were you I would start ranting about you daring to try and control what I do. Instead Ill just laugh at it. Makes the day more enjoyable.

Do you agree that it could be perceived that some people not bothered by Watson's actions are just sexist and hate women? Kinda curious...

On topic. As always.

Just an article that disputes one of the negatives constantly posted here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=723db1410a854f76a3cffea7a34386f7

You sure reply to yourself a lot.

Thank you for that correction Irish!

So we are better off with the full season suspension than it getting lowered to 10 games.

jmho

Yeah, he just demanded a trade in the middle of the hirings and played the race card as an excuse. And you use that excuse like it's legit.

Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Texans hours after team names head coach

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...exans-hours-after-team-names-head-coach/

You keep denying the timing of when this all went down which tells the exact story of why this all went down.

j/c...

Baker holding a youth football camp in Oklahoma today...

Baker sounded more mature there. Good move on his part. However, he's not coming back. The reporter was trying to get him to say he would, but Baker shut him down twice. Politely and maturely, but he shut him down.

Yeah, because you know, Brissett is the man! You think Baker wants to come back.... here?

Shut him down? Is there another video somewhere?

If Baker wants to get paid and the Browns tell him he is not excused from other team activities...he will be back. It's only HIS choice if he decides to walk away from $18+MM The ball is in the court of the FO. If they can't reach out to him and instead roll with Brissett that will say a lot about the FO/Owner even beyond the Watson decision.

Ultimately, they set out to "upgrade" the QB position...and instead they downgraded it (pending the suspension.)

What?

The guy asked him twice about could Baker Mayfield ever play again for the Browns and Baker said that it was it was obvious that it was a mutual decision on both sides to move on.

What's confusing about that?

He also stated that a comeback would require "some reaching out".

It is not Baker's decision. Period.

Mutual:
Britannica Dictionary definition of MUTUAL

1 : shared between two or more people or groups
Mutual love and respect was the key to their successful marriage.

The partnership was based on mutual admiration and understanding.
mutual trust

countries relying on mutual support during difficult times

◊ If a feeling is mutual, then two people or groups feel the same way about each other.

Her fans love her, and the feeling is mutual. [=and she loves her fans]

Their attraction was mutual. [=they were both attracted to each other]

“I'm pleased to meet you.” “The feeling is mutual!” [=I'm also pleased to meet you]

2 : always used before a noun : shared by two or more people or groups

They met through a mutual friend. [=a person who was a friend of both of them]

our mutual hobby of car racing

The two countries have several mutual [=joint] interests.

The Browns are the party that told Baker not to show up for mini camp. But I guess that means they should not be expected to be the side that should reach out to baker.

I think the Baker Fan Club cant face the reality is that Baker
Is totally done with the Browns and the fans of the Browns
The thing is, the Baker fan club can't seem to move on
From Baker Mayfield , but Baker Mayfield has moved on
From them .
Fans want to believe that athletes really care about them.
The harsh reality is that, they don't
It's all about the $$$$.
"Oh my god Baker doesnt want to be a Brown , I thought he
Bled orange and brown !!"
Baker has turned the page.
He is ready to write another chapter in his football life

To be fair........Baker had kind words for the fans and city in that video that Milk recently posted. I do think the word "mutual" is important in regards to the situation. Both are done w/one another.

I'm really interested in learning the clear definition of Card-Carrying-Baker-Mayfield-Fanboy.


Does it include anyone who ponders the possibility of 19M QB on the roster playing in a back-up role?

Does it include anyone who ponders the difference in talent between Baker and Tyrod Lite?


Hurry up. I need to get my spreadsheet done, Encyclopedia Brown has hired me to fact check all fanboy posts.

It's anyone who doesn't walk the watson fan boy line.

“Ready to move on, on both sides”. His words. Time to move on.

Actually he very clearly said “for that to happen there would have to be some reaching out”. That is what I call leaving the door wide open. That left me feeling somewhat optimistic. We just have to see how deshaun’s hearing plays out. Then Cleveland administration needs to do what gives us the best chance to win.

Squash that feeling.
Baker was pretty clear; both sides are comfortable with moving on.
Him playing for the Browns any more just is NOT happening. It's clear as anything in that video, in his own words.

Sorry but it is not nearly that clear cut. And I will say this. If deshaun is suspended and we do not reach out to baker, and instead go with an inferior qb , whoever makes that decision should be fired. Maybe we reach out and he says no. Ok then we move on. But I do not want a brissett if we could have a baker.

Why would we not want the best qb we can have. No one is saying baker over deshaun. But we should all see baker as our next best option.

You better call the 3 Investigators instead . Encyclopedia Brown couldn't hold
Jupiter Jones fingerprint dusting kit
The Baker Fan Club are those that for some stupid reason seem to think
That there is a chance the Browns and him can still co-exist
The Baker Fan Club are those who blame his 2021 output on everything but him.
The Baker Fan Club are those who can't see the QB position is what has
Stopped this franchise from achieving more over the past couple years

FIFY

This is why the FO will try to move him first. And just for the record, Baker didn't say it couldn't happen, he said: "that would take some reaching out".

What about the Browns fan club.

Your ignorance just can't stop regarding Bakers play in 2021 and him playing with injury.

So far we have given up Baker and Jordan Davis for Watson. This is being considered by some as the worst Trade ever in the history of the NFL.

We went pretty far with Baker in 2020.

Anyways stop insulting posters when you just are one of the most ignorant fans around....later

There's no chance.
This FO isn't going to reach out to Baker.

I doubt it happens, but if Watson is suspended for the whole year it is to both the team and Baker's advantage to work together. Brissett is not taking us where we want to go, Baker showed he is capable. Having a good year helps Baker next year as a FA.

And a Baker with a chip on his shoulder is a much better Baker.

I think that if Watson is suspended for a long time, the Browns have no chance of winning it all. I do think the Browns prefer Brissett over Baker. My question is what if JB gets hurt? Dobbs has only thrown something like 17 passes in the NFL. He is intelligent, but his arm isn't good. So, who would back-up Brissett?

Only someone that has NOT watched at least 2 decades of Browns football would be able to be comfortable with the likes of Brissett starting in a new offense with a new cast of characters. We fans have seen this movie over and over and know exactly how it's going to play out.

Dude is going to look like a stud in TC and PS. Week1 he's going to fall on his face but do enough in garbage time to get a couple more starts before he either gets hurt or benched. The backup comes in, has 1-2 good games before the offense really goes down the crapper. By mid-season we're mocking the upcoming draft.

I don't think they will either...but if DW is out for the year and they do not reach out to Baker...they are fools. Given that I believe that this was Haslam's push, their jobs will stay safe. But this will take the cake of QB boneheadedness...which is rather unbelievable given our STR history.

This FO went as far as bringing in Watson, with his pending civil cases and baggage, and gave him an unprecedented contract to do it.

If they have proven anything to us, is that they want the best possible person under center for the Browns and will do just about anything to accomplish that. IMO, satisfying Baker's ego (if that's even what's going on here) is nothing compared to flying to Houston and signing themselves up for the Watson drama.