DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Sigh…the economy... Part 2

Whatever you want bud. What ever you want.

Thanks for posting that. I didn't want to get in to overall trends, etc....its why I brought up spot pricing, then quickly changed direction. I will also add that there is price lag. Prices tend to follow costs. They are slower to go up and slower to follow down

Kind of deceptive?
I would say straight up intentionally deceptive.
At first glance, your like, "why aren't the dates evenly spaced?"
Then you look at the charts and it becomes clear.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/gasoline

J/C

The whole situation does make you wonder what the subtle counter-current is to everything that is going on right now. Usually something that begins to reveal itself years down the road. For instance, when we went to Lexington last weekend, the Supercharger station for Tesla was mobbed. 3 months ago, there was hardly anyone there. I imagine EV deliveries and consumption are really starting to rise. Perhaps we're seeing the subtle counter-current beginning in response to the gas prices.

Same with the Great Resignation. Companies I imagine are starting to turn more to atomation and working with the downsizing. With the move to remote, I also imagine that the larger urban centers are going to start suffering more. I've seen a lot of Silicon Valley companies "in source" to Dayton, Ohio recently.

It'll be interesting to see how things play out over the next 5-10 years.

So you're going to drive to California to buy gas? Where ever you live you'll be paying about the same price anywhere you go. You can buy a $200 cell phone or a $1000 cell phone anywhere you live. No need to be obtuse. And the price of cell phones doesn't impact every segment of our economy. Some of the crazy BS people try to uphold is mind boggling.

So you are only going to buy goods and services from local companies. Don't act like high fuel prices elsewhere doesn't affect you locally.

j/c:

Wait, he is spinning the facts again, just like he always does. He said this:


That is untrue, so he moved the goal posts yet again to spin yet another one of his lies.

Oh it certainly does. It negatively impacts all Americans. It seems as if the point flew right over your head. I'll try to simplify it. You don't have a choice when it comes to paying high fuel costs. People can quibble that it's not as high in some places as others if they like. But it's expensive everywhere.

It impacts all of our lives in the prices that we pay on everything. It's an essential commodity we all must pay for. Point being is that there is no option within your community to purchase "cheap gas". The price is very similar at every location within your community. I didn't bring up the silly comparison of cell phones to the price of gas or that somehow Apple's products were a necessity and that somehow if we were going to complain about corporate profits we should bring Apple into the conversation.

The reason why is that nobody is stopping you from buying a cheaper cell phone. That option is available everywhere. American families aren't being forced to make decisions what they will be forced to do without because they have no choice but purchase an Apple cell phone.

I totally agree that the high cost of both gas, and even more so diesel fuel on a nationwide scale negatively impacts us all. I'm actually not sure how you arrived at thinking otherwise from my posts. But hopefully that clears up any confusion.

Actually it did not go over my head. The point was you picked a specific, and pad antic, argument to fight with someone you disagree with from jump. I merely pointed out in the same snarky and pedantic way your example holds no weight.

I suppose you missed the point.

You are only here to fight. lmao

Ah, invocation of the classic "I know you are but what am I?" to admit your faulty arguments were there just so you could rumble and tussle.

And there you go again.

Go on, one more time so you can earn the nickname.

The fact you believe I actually give a damn about what people like you and Curly think about me is what's so hilarious. Nickname huh? You mean like Trump uses to try and demean anyone and everyone who disagrees with him? I can see why some of you would cling to things like that. I mean when all else fails, right?

My first thought:

Wit' tha seven, seven-eleven, seven-eleven
Seven, even Back Do' Lil' Joe
I picked up the cash flow

So.....

The economy.....

Muy mal

Introduced in Senate (03/24/2022)
Gas Price Gouging Prevention Act

This bill prohibits any person from selling, during a proclaimed international crisis affecting the oil markets, gasoline at a price that (1) is unconscionably excessive, and (2) indicates that the seller is taking unfair advantage of the crisis to increase prices unreasonably. The President may issue a proclamation of such a crisis that specifies the geographic area covered and how long the proclamation applies.

The bill provides for enforcement by the Federal Trade Commission and imposes enhanced civil penalties and criminal fines. It also authorizes state attorneys general to bring a civil action to enforce the prohibitions of this bill.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3920?r=27&s=1

House approves bill to combat gasoline ‘price gouging’
Economy May 19, 2022 4:05 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — A closely divided House approved legislation Thursday to crack down on alleged price gouging by oil companies and other energy producers as prices at the pump continue to soar.

A bill backed by House Democrats would give President Joe Biden authority to declare an energy emergency that would make it unlawful to increase gasoline and home energy fuel prices in an “excessive” or exploitative manner. The bill directs the Federal Trade Commission to punish companies that engage in price gouging.

“At a time when people across the country are feeling the pinch at the gas pump, Congress needs to be doing all it can to bring down costs for American families,″ said Rep. Kim Schrier, D-Wash., who co-sponsored the bill.

She called it “infuriating” that spikes in gas prices were “happening at the same time that gas and oil companies are making record profits and taking advantage of international crises to make a profit. This must stop.″

The measure was approved, 217-207. Republicans unanimously opposed the bill, along with four Democrats.

It now goes to the Senate, where a similar bill is pending but faces steep odds amid a 50-50 split between Democrats and Republicans.

The focus on price gouging comes as gas prices hit an average of $4.59 per gallon Thursday — 49 cents a gallon higher than a month ago and $1.55 higher than a year ago, according to AAA.

ExxonMobil, Chevron and other major oil companies announced surging profits totaling more than $40 billion in the first quarter of the year, a fact Democrats repeatedly cited in floor debate. Many of the companies are spending billions on stock buybacks and dividend payments to investors.

READ MORE: Why both climate activists and the oil industry are unhappy with Biden’s new drilling leases

“Big Oil is price gouging families because they can,” said Rep. Katie Porter, D-Calif., another co-sponsor. “Enough is enough.”

Republicans and industry groups called the bill misguided, saying there is no evidence of price gouging. Oil is a global commodity and prices are set on the global market.

Gas prices rose late last year amid supply chain problems and increased demand as the economy recovered following the COVID-19 pandemic, but prices have spiked ever higher since Russia’s Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine. The U.S. has banned imports of Russian oil and other countries are seeking alternatives to Russian energy, driving prices up.

Biden, aware of the political stakes, has vowed to do all he can to ease “pain at the pump for American families,” including ordering release of record amounts of oil from the nation’s strategic reserve.

Republicans say the answer to higher gas prices is to increase production here in the United States.

Louisiana Rep. Steve Scalise, the No. 2 House Republican, called the bill an attempt by Democrats “to distract and shift blame from the administration’s self-inflicted energy and inflation crisis.”

Scalise called the bill “a socialist price-fixing scheme that hurts small businesses and consumers the most.” He accused Democrats of ”politicizing” the FTC by giving the commission “wide-ranging powers based on undefined parameters that will allow it to usurp market forces and set government-controlled gasoline prices.”

The American Exploration and Production Council, a lobbying group that represents independent oil and gas producers, called allegations of price-gouging false and counter-productive.

The FTC has conducted numerous investigations that have shown that changes in gasoline prices are based on market factors — not illegal behavior, said Anne Bradbury, the group’s CEO.

The vote on the House bill comes as Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said she will release a long-delayed, five-year plan that allows Interior to conduct new offshore oil and gas lease sales. The current plan expires June 30, and administration officials had not said when or if a replacement would be released, even as they canceled three offshore lease sales scheduled in the Gulf of Mexico and off the Alaska coast.

Haaland told the Senate Energy Committee the new plan will be made public by June 30. The plan does not issue specific leases or authorize any drilling project.

READ MORE: Should big oil pay for climate damage? Some cities and states say yes

“As we take this next step, we will follow the science and the law, as we always do,” Haaland said Thursday, vowing a “robust and transparent review process that includes input from states, the public and tribes.”

The Biden administration has come under pressure to increase U.S. crude production as fuel prices spike because of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine.

Biden also faces pressure from Democrats and environmental groups urging him to do more to combat climate change, even as his legislative proposals on climate and clean energy remain stalled in a sharply divided Congress.

Sen. Joe Manchin, a West Virginia Democrat who chairs the energy panel and plays an outsized role on energy policy, said Thursday that “even as we see Russia wage a war enabled by energy insecurity in Europe, this administration has made its opposition to domestic oil and gas production crystal clear.”

Manchin said he supported a pause on new oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters announced by Biden soon after taking office in January 2021. By last summer, he told Haaland, “the time for a pause had come and gone.”

Now, 16 months after the pause was announced, “we still have no new leases,” Manchin said. “I’m sorry to say it has become crystal clear that the ‘pause’ is in fact a ban.”

Interior conducted an offshore lease sale last fall, responding to a court order, but the sale was later vacated by a federal judge.

The administration has scheduled onshore lease sales next month in eight mostly Western states. However, officials scaled back the amount of land offered for drilling and raised royalty rates charged to energy companies by 50 percent.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/house-approves-bill-to-combat-gasoline-price-gouging

Senate committee deadlocks on Democrats' gas price gouging legislation
by Breanne Deppisch, Energy and Environment Reporter | May 25, 2022 01:21 PM

Members of the Senate Commerce Committee deadlocked Wednesday on advancing legislation to combat gas price gouging, with members voting 14-14 on the Transportation Fuel Market Transparency Act.

The Senate bill is similar to H.R. 7688, the Democratic anti-price gouging bill that cleared the House last week. Much like that bill, the Senate legislation also seeks to create greater transparency around gas prices and would give the Federal Trade Commission additional authority to monitor and crack down on allegations of price gouging by energy companies. Democrats have rallied around the anti-gouging legislation in response to record gas prices, which have dragged them down in the polls and which Republicans have blamed on their energy policies.

The bill would also require the U.S. Energy Information Administration to publish more information about markets to help ensure fair competition and transparency.

Senate Commerce Committee Chairwoman Maria Cantwell (D-WA) said of the legislation: "Congress has given the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission [oversight] of the commodities future trading commission and the ability to police bad actors, so that they can be caught and punished, but we also need a policeman on the beat as it relates to the transportation fuel market."

BIDEN PROPOSES RESTRICTIONS THAT WOULD BLOCK GIANT PEBBLE MINE IN BRISTOL BAY

But unlike the House bill, the Senate effort is all but certain to stall in the evenly divided chamber, as it would require the support of at least 10 Republicans, who have sharply disapproved of the measure.

Still, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has vowed to force a vote on the bill as a means of putting Republicans on record and tying them to the high prices.



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...crats-anti-gas-price-gouging-legislation

Republicans Vote Against Gas Price Gouging Bill

Republicans only moan and complain about gas prices. Doing something would wreck their whole act.
Republicans Vote Against Gas Price Gouging Bill

By John Amato — May 20, 2022
In a fairly close House vote on Thursday, a Democratic bill cracking down on price gouging by the energy industry passed 217 to 207.

Oil and gas companies have bragged about their enormous profits to the dismay of many, except of course, Republicans.

The bill may be caught up in the Senate with Manchin being the Debbie Downer, but the kicker is that every House Republican voted against this bill.


Every one of them.

NPR reports, "A bill backed by House Democrats would give President Joe Biden authority to declare an energy emergency that would make it unlawful to increase gasoline and home energy fuel prices in an “excessive” or exploitative manner. The bill directs the Federal Trade Commission to punish companies that engage in price gouging."

The only thing Republicans do well is go on Fox News and other wingnut outlets and scream and yell about rising gas prices. When they have a chance to help voters, they refuse.

We remember, though.



https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/republicans-vote-against-gas-price-gouging

Cool story.

Please explain the double-standard on the left that gas prices are high because oil is traded on the world market but yet blame republicans for not passing a 100% toothless "price-gouging" bill.

You're not going to prove any "excessive or exploitative" pricing by the big boys. What are you going to do then? Close down the mom & pop charging 20 cents more??

Window dressing by a bunch of idiots on both sides that split the vote on every issue, and would find an angle to do so over an asteroid approaching the earth.

Want proof of that? These record profits have been going on for over 5 years and there are still 30 BILLION in subsidies for oil companies...

Anybody in Washington talking about that??

I want to know what these mean:

(1) is unconscionably excessive, and (2) indicates that the seller is taking unfair advantage of the crisis to increase prices unreasonably

Those are subjective criteria.

So does the rest of the world. Every story on the web has the same lack of details. Along with the "give the FTC the ability to punish them". I'm sure they're shaking in their shoes.

Seems like nothing more than "yo, blaming Putin is losing steam in the polls, there has got to be a way to blame republicans for all this."

Laws that use standards that boil down to "we can't define it, but we know it when we see it" are unconstitutional and any law maker that votes for such a bill should be sent back to high school civics.

j/c

None of this is difficult no matter how much people carry on about it.

All one has to do is look at fuel prices in the past when oil was the same price per barrel as it is now. Compare the two and then make excuses for the stark contrast. Because that's what you would have to do.

It never ceases to amaze me the excuses people can come up with for corporations to even price gouge themselves as consumers on a daily basis.

Agree. Just to clarify though, I'm not making excuses for the oil companies. I'm pointing to the outright curruption that is already baked in to our politics and the fact that this "bill" would do nothing to solve the real problem.

As far as your point -- yes, 100%. The naysayers will point the disparity and point to elevated costs of transport, refining, and all the other b.s. people cite when making lame excuses. To be fair, part of that is true, but maybe to the tune of half of what we're experiencing with the elevated costs.

Lastly, "because covid" has been the biggest farce of an excuse in world history... People on every level of every supply chain are exploiting it to the best of their ability, not just here, around the entire globe.

And to add, you have been spot on with a lot of your info of how world markets work and how a war would disrupt these things, when many people (including, scratch that, especially our politicians) talked like there were simple solutions and Biden was too lame to institute them... Case in point -- land leases -- we've argued about a lot of the layers of the issue, but you're right, giving back leases will do nothing to solve this problem in here and now.

I agree with you that in this case it's the Biden administration and democrats as a whole using political talking points rather than finding actual solutions. But much like we agree on the increased leases being nothing more than a talking point by the other side, I'm slightly confused what it is republicans think he can do about it that would really make any difference? And I mean things that wouldn't be the opposite of what they've claimed to stand for, for decades. They never want business interfered with. Any type of regulation is a no no. The whole Keystone Pipeline crap is just that, crap. Yet another political talking point.

So I understand exactly how frustrating fuel prices are. I'm paying the same price as everyone else. So is my entire family. I just wish either side would come up with an actual plan to present that would change it. Instead, as per usual we get all the finger pointing with nobody actually coming up with a plan to fix it.

Man, that is so true. All the companies I deal with and their suppliers are trying to rip up deals to get more money by saying “Because COVID!” so I ask specifically how COVID has affected them when I compare the CPI and PPI rates against what they are claiming and they basically just repeat “COVID!!!!”

I feel like it’s all form and no substance at this point. Talking points as you say.

The Dems ran on talking points and getting them to actually do what they said they would do is like pulling teeth.

The Republicans are basically taking the stance of associating almost anything bad in the world right now to being the Democrats fault, while providing little to no plan of their own.

I just feel like the two Bobs in office space looking at the one guy (in this case almost all politicians) and just asking “Sooo…what would you say…ya do here?”

You've been missing a lot of work lately...

I can't say I've been missing it Bob.

So where are all the GOPers that decried runaway inflation now that prices are coming down? Yall should celebrate with a song:

Lmao.

Gas prices down to $4.25... we should all be dancing in the street.

Hail Biden!

1

Im paying more than 5 per gallon, and inflation is rampant because of this.

I guess libtards are happy because 1 step closer to universal govt teat sucking (communism)

Looks like a bunch of libtard projection to me.

Whatever gamegirl.