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Legend
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Legend
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For four years, you have criticized our OL in order to defend Baker. Well, you got your wish and Baker gets to play w/a much better supporting cast. LMAO Super classy. I guess the touche response would be that for four years you have blamed all the OL failings on the QB.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I don't think our OL has been a failure at all. Then again, I root for the team and not an individual player.
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Browns juju suggests that Baker plays well in 2022...for 2023 he signs as a FA with a team other than Carolina...Carolina gets a 2024 3rd Rd Compensatory pick and gives us their 2024 4th Rd pick. Perfect.
The Browns will pay over $15MM for the combo of Brissett/Mayfield to man/not-man the QB spot for 2023 not to mention whatever they are flushing for DW. Cap space or not...that is poor management of the cap.
I don't think this QB situation could have been handled any worse if that was the goal from the start. Well everything still hinges almost entirely on the outcome of the investigation and what the suspension is (if any). I will still and maintain - 10 games or more makes this a bad trade. I could easily be proven wrong this year if Brissett steps in and is good enough to get the team to the playoffs. Anything short of the playoffs with this roster (what was it ranked on the other thread? Something like 6th or 8th?). If we don't make the play offs - Not only is there a possibility of losing parts of the roster for next season, not only do you waste a year of many elite players in their prime, Our stud QB of the future will be closer to 3 years of never having played a game in the NFL. While his talent is very real and upper echelon, not playing for 3 years simply comes with risk.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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After years of bemoaning Cowherd with his Darnold over Baker love affair. Browns fans have literally turned into Cowherd in consecutive offseason they have parroted the same nonsense. "This is great for Darnold/Mayfeild, better offsense....." blah blah blah
Also the vegas odds the day after a trade.....LMAO they do know something......how to re-birth suckers, pump those odds so the Oklahoma homers pump easy money into the system....I'm not even a gambler and I know that Sooner fans will throw money away on that bet for nostalgia.
Also what are the Panther even doing? Just throwing [censored] against the wall hoping it sticks?
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I will still and maintain - 10 games or more makes this a bad trade. I'm not trying to comment on how you feel about the whole thing, but I do disagree with your approach. IIRC, 10+ game suspension means his contract doesn't count against our cap (negligible impact as it's tiny), and doesn't toll a year (huge impact). IMO, the impact of his upcoming suspension gets worse as the length grows, but only to that point. After that, length of suspension is whatever unless they want to go longer than a full season. And as for judging the whole deal based on the first year, IMO that's not the right approach either. Not the same level, but Hunt came here under similar circumstances. Also... not to say Watson is going to follow the same arc as Hunt, but there's nothing there to say he won't, either. It's a 5-year contract that very easily could be put on ice until ALL this drama is finally and officially over.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I think the Browns came to the realization that they were never going to win it all w/Baker and that they needed an elite qb. The question is how to get one? The only reason we even had a chance at obtaining Watson was due to his off-field issues. So, even if he is suspended for the entire year, the Browns have an elite qb for probably at least a decade. In my mind, that makes it a great trade and not a bad trade. Let's not forget that Watson is actually about a half year younger than Baker.
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Legend
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I'm glad its over.
Baker was accepted very well by most of the fan base. I thank him for bringing us out of Expansion and making it proud to be a Browns fan again. There was some exciting moments. His battles with Burrow. One thing I will always remember about Baker was his accuracy - sure he had some issues with completions but when he did complete the pass it was put right into the hands of the WR where they didn't break stride. I'm told Watson has that success too so we will see.
The obvious. Our first game will be probably Brissett at QB. The Browns are now a much better team than the Panthers so I'm not quite sure its as close as some think.
I wish him luck of course we just gave him away. Got more than we received for OBJ but still I hope he rehabs 100% and does his thing in the NFC. The Baker era has ended for the Browns. Now we must put our eggs in the Watson basket I just hope we don't get burned. Still say it was a bad trade but its over!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think the Browns came to the realization that they were never going to win it all w/Baker and that they needed an elite qb. The question is how to get one? The only reason we even had a chance at obtaining Watson was due to his off-field issues. So, even if he is suspended for the entire year, the Browns have an elite qb for probably at least a decade. In my mind, that makes it a great trade and not a bad trade. Let's not forget that Watson is actually about a half year younger than Baker. Could not agree more. We watched Ben trash us for almost 2 decades but we want to hold moral high ground and be absolute losers just to be able to claim some moral authority. HARD PASS. I argued with people over a defensive tackle (Suh) being someone we should absolutely target......the pearl clutchers around here with "Dirty player" claims and how we don't need him. Learned it then, I'm not arguing it, I don't care about anything off the field after losing to Ben and Ray Lewis and watching Brady cheat his ass off. Or we could be on this disaster coaster again....because this is what it looks like when you don't have the guy. Cut Cam. Sign Teddy. Trade for Sam. Trade Away Teddy. Sign Cam Back. Draft Corral. Trade for Baker.
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Legend
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As a person who lives in Columbia, SC......I have been wondering about what the Panthers are doing at the qb position. Going w/two failed qb in Darnold and then Baker in back-to-back years is mind-boggling. I guess the saving grace is that they basically got Baker for nothing........but, think about the long-term prognosis for this team.
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You probably are already aware of this and just trying to deceive others like you normally do, but the Panthers have brought in new offensive linemen.
24. CAROLINA PANTHERS
Projected Starting Lineup
LT: Ikem Ekwonu
LG: Brady Christensen
C: Bradley Bozeman
RG: Austin Corbett
RT: Taylor Moton
This is a conservative estimate for what was one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL last season — but it's one that is now bursting with potential after multiple offseason moves. Taylor Moton has played more than 1,000 snaps and earned a 76.0-plus PFF grade in four straight seasons. That’s Carolina's building block, and the team added a couple of free agents on the interior to raise the unit's floor. The offensive line's ultimate performance will obviously depend a lot on how quickly rookie Ikem Ekwonu can adjust to pass protecting at the NFL level after he earned only a 78.3 pass-blocking grade last season for N.C. State. So...4 of 5 OL will be brand new next year...with a rookie at LT. That usually works out really well. Got it. For four years, you have criticized our OL in order to defend Baker... That is a lie. I have never criticized the OL. I have pointed out that the OL has been decimated by injuries for much of the last four years. Your beloved PFF are stats that are for guys like you. Watching the games without the bias of your hatred for the flag-planter is better. Who was the head coach in the Browns last playoff win? Here's some OL injury reminder from the Browns last playoff win: Browns: All-Pro tackle Jack Conklin was cleared to play after being listed as questionable with an "illness" on Friday. His return didn't last long. He exited in the first half with a hamstring injury. Guard Michael Dunn, stepping in for Bitonio, left in the fourth quarter with a calf issue. Yet...the flag-planter STILL beat the Steelers - in Pittsburgh - for the first playoff win in decades. These are things that actually happened...things that are easy to verify. Here is an injury blurp from the playoff loss to the Chiefs: Browns: LT Jedrick Wills Jr. left with an ankle injury on their first offensive play. His backup, Kendall Lamm, left with an elbow injury, forcing Blake Hance to make his second NFL appearance. I have repeatedly pointed out the number of games played and games started by our OL starters. Your penchant for deception allows you to not notice. ...Well, you got your wish and Baker gets to play w/a much better supporting cast. LMAO That is another lie. I did not wish for either of those things nor does anyone on the planet think CAR has a better supporting cast. You regularly post comments as fact when you have absolutely no idea what another person believes. I post facts of what actually happened ^ and you tell me I "got my wish"^. What are the PFF stats on what I believe?
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Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why even draft a guy? What was this dance with the Browns if you wanted Baker? Just praying Coral could play is not good strategy. They used a 3rd and a 4/5 on QB this year alone.
Very sloppy, I would be surprised if Ruhle can turn this around.
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2nd String
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Browns Twitter is crazy today. I didn't know there were so many lifelong Browns fans that would follow a QB to Carolina. I remember rooting for Kosar when he was cut and ended up in Dallas, then Miami. However, I never stopped following the Browns. Seriously... when Kosar was cut I hoped he did well but I really didn't care... I'm a browns fan... same for Baker.. hope he does well but at this point I really don't care... he's not a Brown any more.. . I'm a Browns fan... I won't watch any more Carolina games than I would have before he was part of their team I think it is more about being in purgatory not feeling real good about supporting the Browns due to their decision to trade for Watson. This gives them an avenue to pursue, to get out from under the Browns umbrella just because of the Watson issues. I don't know why anyone would become a true Panthers fan because of Baker. After all, he is only on a one year contract. If he balls out, he could do the Panthers a solid and sign long term, but more likely he looks at free agency to look for the best contract and situation. The Panthers made him convert $3.5 M into incentives to sign. They didn't do him a lot of favors. They are on the hook for $5M, not a large investment in him. I would expect Mayfield to be in another city in 2023.
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I would expect Mayfield to be in another city in 2023. I expect for Baker to be with the panthers for at least several 3+ years at minimum.
Joe Thomas #73
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Legend
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The Panthers have a message board. Those poor, poor people have no idea what is about to happen on their boards. I feel sad for them, but it's kind of funny at the same time. Why, are you going to start trashing Mayfield on their board now?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Spin, spin, spin. It's your MO.
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Legend
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Good trade. Looks like everybody wins. I don't know about that. Baker had to pay a less than mediocre team 3.5 million dollars to trade for him. I wish him well and thank him for the memories....lots of good ones in a short period of time.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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j/c: Baker Mayfield trade to Panthers creates awkward scenario with WR Robbie Anderson, OC Ben McAdoo over past comments: ‘Short and with small hands’Zac Al-Khateeb 2 hours ago • 4 min read The former Browns quarterback not only accepted a roughly $3.5 million pay cut from his 2022 base salary just to get out of Cleveland, but also must engage in awkward meetings with Panthers receiver Robbie Anderson and offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo. Both Anderson and McAdoo have made less-than-flattering comments about the No. 1 overall pick of the 2018 NFL Draft. Now, their personal success in 2022 may hinge on someone who has good reason to feel slighted by what they said about him. Let's start with McAdoo, who made his initial comments about Mayfield ahead of the 2018 draft, when he was still head coach of the Giants. In speaking to the New York Post, McAdoo characterized Mayfield as short, small-handed and not a "great athlete." MORE: Baker Mayfield trade grades: Browns, Panthers both deserve an 'F' for mutually unhelpful deal "He’s got an edge to him, I like that. He’s gonna lead, they’re gonna follow him,’" McAdoo told the New York Post. "I didn’t see a lot of pro-style football in his college tape. And if you’re short you have to be able to make up for it some way, somehow, and personality doesn’t do that. I didn’t think he was a great athlete. This guy is kinda like a pocket quarterback that is short and with small hands, that’s what I worry about. Moreover, McAdoo considered Mayfield the sixth-best quarterback of the draft behind Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Sam Darnold — who will compete with Mayfield for the Panthers' starting QB position — Josh Rosen and Mason Rudolph. Give credit where it's due, McAdoo was certainly right inasmuch Allen and Jackson are concerned. Darnold has not played particularly well since going No. 3 overall in the 2018 NFL Draft, either with the Jets or Panthers, though that could perhaps be attributable to poor roster situations, at large. Suggesting Rosen and Rudolph were better than Mayfield was laughable, even without the gift of hindsight. McAdoo's not the only one due for an awkward conversation with Mayfield, though. Anderson, who in 2021 was second on the Panthers in receiving yards (514) and first in receiving touchdowns (five) had this to say to an April report connecting Mayfield to Carolina: 'Nooooo.' Anderson doubled down, commenting "Facts" to a follow-up Instagram post saying he didn't want Mayfield in Carolina. Anderson on Wednesday responded to those comments, clarifying that he was merely supporting the quarterback currently on his roster, Darnold, who has drawn good reviews throughout spring practices. Regardless, Mayfield, Anderson and McAdoo all have to move past any potential awkward phases well in advance of the 2022 season. Their success this year could depend on it. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...wkward-comments/o4optvy79fxcdjd2w2vh0rko Sorry Charlie......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I pity the fools ….. that bought yet another Browns QB Jersey when Velcro is readily available.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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2nd String
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I would expect Mayfield to be in another city in 2023. I expect for Baker to be with the panthers for at least several 3+ years at minimum. You could be right, but they will have to do some drastic salary cap magic for it to happen. Right now for the 2023 year, they have a $30M deficit in cap space, without a veteran QB under contract for 2023, only their 3rd round rookie. So, even if the cap jumped 10% in 2023, they would still go into the league year about $8M over the cap. If Baker balls out, he will be looking for a $40M/year deal. I don't even know if they could come up with the cap space to attach the franchise tag to him, which is $29.7M in 2022. That number will rise drastically when some of these new QB contracts kick in next year. It is about wanting him first, being able to afford him second. Of course, that all depends on Mayfield having a better year than any to date.
Last edited by IrishDawg42; 07/07/22 11:49 AM.
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Dawg Talker
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Dang, posting is fun on any board- Poster- I post FACTS= no one else does, mine aren't right, left, just FACTS. And do trolls exist- who's a troll. JMHO, Baker will come with HIS ATTITUDE- remember his drunk running for cops video, his planting OK flag at OSU, his-on the train or off it, his on and on and on- maybe he can start new Progressive Insurance ads in Carolina- he won some games, including a playoff game.....I'm glad he's gone to Carolina....which sounds like a song. He demanded a trade because he's a pampered jock...he could have stayed around and fought Watson for starting gig....Watson hands down....GO Browns!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
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Legend
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Don't understand the you....the ONLY person to hose Cleveland was Baker....he demanded a trade BEFORE we got Watson....he didn't want the competition....JMHO, this was HIS team in his mind. NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG...there is competition for every spot on roster unless you're Rogers, Brady, etc.....due to HIS play, Baker never got there.....BOO HOO, he's only making how many millions this season.....thanks for your effort, Baker....but don't let the door hit you butt as you go. You are delusional. When a team is looking to sign your replacement after publicly naming you the starter for the upcoming season it's obvious. The fact you can't see that is a you problem. Maybe he thought it was his team going into next season because the Browns told him it was? But let's just forget about all that, right? Look, I think watson is a better QB... on the field. When ever the time comes he can take the field. I mean if that's all you care about. But people really need to stop acting like there isn't enough blame to go around and this entire thing wasn't handled well. And that isn't specific to Baker. The Browns took on a ton of baggage in this deal. Baggage that won't soon be going away.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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He fooled the media again! lol
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Legend
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Browns Twitter is crazy today. I didn't know there were so many lifelong Browns fans that would follow a QB to Carolina. I remember rooting for Kosar when he was cut and ended up in Dallas, then Miami. However, I never stopped following the Browns. I think that has more to do with the browns signing watson than it has to do with Baker. Many people find that part of it repulsive.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Spin, spin, spin. It's your MO. I read his post. It was full of facts - and you clearly can't or won't respond to them. 1. Fact - Panthers OL - 4 new out of five. 2. Fact - You and some others have routinely accused posters of defending Baker and blaming other players when they point out things like injuries or backups playing in key roles. Hell - look at OBJ who you still want back: It's been confirmed he never wanted to be in CLE, he was running the wrong routes (that coming from someone who knows and is on this board) and ... you think posters who feel bitter towards OBJ are blaming him for Baker's deficiencies. 3. Fact - No-one said Panthers was a better team or OL than CLE. But to be fair you weren't serious with that comment, you were just you being petty/mean.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Legend
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Twitter wants a login to view.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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I am surprised you interpreted the exchange the way you did.
Just take a look at #1. He completely misinterpreted my point about their OL. Not going to go through the entire thing because neither of you are interested in the truth. It's more of the same crap that you guys spew about Baker on a daily basis.
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I will still and maintain - 10 games or more makes this a bad trade. I'm not trying to comment on how you feel about the whole thing, but I do disagree with your approach. IIRC, 10+ game suspension means his contract doesn't count against our cap (negligible impact as it's tiny), and doesn't toll a year (huge impact). IMO, the impact of his upcoming suspension gets worse as the length grows, but only to that point. After that, length of suspension is whatever unless they want to go longer than a full season. And as for judging the whole deal based on the first year, IMO that's not the right approach either. Not the same level, but Hunt came here under similar circumstances. Also... not to say Watson is going to follow the same arc as Hunt, but there's nothing there to say he won't, either. It's a 5-year contract that very easily could be put on ice until ALL this drama is finally and officially over. I can understand your perspective 100%. For a (drama free) top 5 QB what we gave up was worth it. If DW has a season that doesn't count towards his contract, it helps the Browns. There is a chance that Watson is as good or better than he was in HOU. All potential positives. All within the realms of realistic. For me 10 games means this season is blown. I'd rather have kept the picks, rolled with Baker and the talent we have + a #13 from this year and a different elite FA this year. Would rather not have a guy with 26 allegations of sexual misconduct against him as the QB. Would rather not watch Brissett. If we can afford Watson's contract, still have cap room etc - what else / who else could we have signed that would make a difference next season or the season after. Even if DW is very good next year and for 3-4 years after. Just my 2 cents. Probably impacted by my opinion that Baker is good enough to win with. To add,while I can freely admit that my perspective on the trade is influenced by my opinion of Baker - the idea that my opinion of Watson's moral issues and allegations is influenced by Baker, what I believe to be a realistic punishment, is simply a fabrication/lie.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Legend
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I don't think our OL has been a failure at all. Then again, I root for the team and not an individual player. Yet you've had a knack of rooting against an individual player.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I am surprised you interpreted the exchange the way you did.
Just take a look at #1. He completely misinterpreted my point about their OL. Not going to go through the entire thing because neither of you are interested in the truth. It's more of the same crap that you guys spew about Baker on a daily basis. So WSU talked about the grades from Panthers OL from 2021. Said they acquired new players - and that it was going to be bad. You posted an newer depth chart including talking up their best OL player who is the RT with a grade of 76 which is the same LT and same grade WSU posted. You said the floor has been raised, but I read that as an indication hat the groups is still going to be bad. You also accused WSU of blaming the OL to defend Baker. The response is as I pointed out above, which was factual. The only issue seems to be you calling WSU a liar for posting 2021 OL stats. I don't that or any other suggestion of deceit or lying. Or spin. Maybe that's just me.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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For me 10 games means this season is blown. I'd rather have kept the picks, rolled with Baker and the talent we have + a #13 from this year and a different elite FA this year. I can understand your argument here. There have been times where I've agreed with it. I think it's more of a rebalancing with this current FO in terms of their ability to cash in on picks. It's been much better than most past regimes. But I keep coming back to my remaining fairly skeptical about the Watson saga. .... the idea that my opinion of Watson's moral issues and allegations is influenced by Baker, what I believe to be a realistic punishment, is simply a fabrication/lie. Understood. That's where I'm at too, actually. I did feel that Baker would've (eventually) been able to get it done. But I can also understand the FO's temptation to upgrade the position with Watson being available.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I will still and maintain - 10 games or more makes this a bad trade. I'm not trying to comment on how you feel about the whole thing, but I do disagree with your approach. IIRC, 10+ game suspension means his contract doesn't count against our cap (negligible impact as it's tiny), and doesn't toll a year (huge impact). Actually I believe that is factually incorrect. My understanding is that it takes six games to consider it an accrued season. A ten game suspension would make watson active for 7 games. Maybe there's a way the Browns could circumvent this by not making him active for 2 additional games so he would only be active for 5 games. I'm not sure about that one way or the other. But that would just throw more shade on the Browns in the eyes of the NFL.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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mgh888 |
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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I did feel that Baker would've (eventually) been able to get it done. You are far more objective than most of the other Baker fans who post a lot. So, I want to ask you in particular a few questions. Do you really believe that if the NFL believed in Baker that no team would have been willing to give up more than what Carolina gave up? Do you really believe the idea being floated around that the Browns had no leverage? You don't believe that a team would have pursued him w/more gusto if they really thought he could get it done?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,549 Likes: 1328
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,549 Likes: 1328 |
Do you really believe the idea being floated around that the Browns had no leverage? Zero leverage. And anyone who has conducted business at a high level knows that. The entire league knew that watson and Baker could and would never co-exist on the same roster. They knew once the Browns signed watson Baker would have to go even if in the end the Browns had to cut him. They knew the Browns would either have to take anything they could get or they would get nothing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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mgh888 |
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,219 Likes: 590 |
1. Thank you for the correction. I was off by a game.
2. I believe they did this with Gordon one year(?). They suspended him a game or 2 at the end of the year, allegedly to keep him under the min threshold after he'd been suspended for part of the year.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954 Likes: 386 |
The leverage they had comes from knowing they have a sunk cost and they don't get anything by just cutting him (other than a roster spot). They also know that sitting him in a cubby for the season was not going to reduce the value they had.
We also don't know what was happening on the phones with other GMs. They had a small bit of leverage in getting the final choice if there was more that one GM interested in doing something.
I am not saying they had a lot of leverage, but they did have a non zero amount of it, as long as anyone else wanted to dance, which apparently at least one team did.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Spin, spin, spin. It's your MO. Can't dispute what I posted...again. You are a clown show of one. Your MO is to lie and conveniently leave out facts. I like my MO better. For a guy with advanced degrees in English, you sure have a hard time grasping context and concepts.
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SuperBrown |
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I can dispute what you said. But why? So we can bog down the board w/a dozen posts of you lied----no, you lied? LOL......I made my point and I'm good w/what I said. You and 888 can keep on doing your thing.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Traded to Carolina
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