DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshawn Watson News

the time to drop the hammer on watson was in 2021 when the accusations came out. it would've been better for the league to actually suspend him for that year, rather than allow him to be on the roster getting paid even though he was holding out for football reasons.

so that's why i doubt they fight the judge if he ends up getting 0-4 games. because to fight with only the accusations and public opinion, then that opens the door to more public scrutiny directly into the owners, who Goodell works for. already have the Commanders and Raiders to deal with from legal/perception issues, and the Browns for pure perception reasons.

The Texans ownership already has had some issues going on internally, and dropping the hammer now would create a new fronte that the league has to fight against.

this is what happens when people drag their ass.

Swish/Mac.... that is where the NFL and Texans messed up. the NFLPA can prove that the Texans knew about the activity and did nothing but try to cover it up. Apparently they did not think it was so bad to discipline Watson. And that is why I think the judge cannot give the long suspension. I would think both sides would try to back out and save face.. 8 games and have a good day. Because if you go any longer, NFLPA might start leaking info about the Texans and what they knew and did.

And I know the owners misconduct does not count in this case but the NFL cannot sweep the Commanders/Synder under a rug because what he did was even worse!!

I agree w/most of what you are saying, but I think 8 games is too long. I'm thinking 4-6 would be logical. I really don't think he deserves to be suspended, but the mob mentality gets their way quite a bit.

You can't seem to see that you are no less guilty of this than anyone you are accusing.

but that doesn't matter in this situation. remember, the nfl is waging a public opinion war against Watson because public pressure is the only way the NFL can justify a suspension in court, because they can't provide actual evidence.

but public opinion is a two way street. so when you play the perception game, the owners misconduct DOES count, because the Judge can now weigh the lack of evidence and punish the league wants against watson vs the mountain of evidence and LACK of punishment when it comes to the owners as one of the reasons why no suspension is justified.

if Watson gets 0-4 games, the NFL has no one to blame but themselves.

PIT.. I'm bringing this over from the other Thread
"I guess you missed where he ejaculated on at least one of them. These things have been posted several times during these debates so I'm not going to rehash them. One of these women left the session crying and watson even admitted she was crying. But he claimed he had no idea why? Sure..."

I did see one woman say that Watson had a small towel when they began, he flipped over, he asked her to massage close to the man part area and that when she did... he ejaculated on himself and it upset her and she cried. (* I think that was the woman interviewed on Real Sports *).

OK... but Pit, that same woman said she asked him about a large towel being used that the beginning.. Watson came out with a small one, why didnt she stop right then. Watson asked for her to massage around his butt.. why didnt she say no! Later, Watson flipped over on his back, basically naked but for small towel, again, she kept going!! Then when Watson asked for her to rub NEAR his man parts, why didnt she say no and leave?? As a matter of fact, she continues to massage Watson and he gets ready to ejaculate, why did she keep going??

You see Pit, that is why Grand Juries and NFL found no force, threat, coercion because all Watson did was ask for extra services, those women were not made keep going, or even touch him/man parts. BTW, some of those women saw Watson twice!!

This is looking like 6-8 games max, not the whole season.

That's your opinion. It seems you think having a small towel is reason enough to not conduct a massage session. While it may seem odd I think you are reaching for that one. Dear god here we go again for people who weren't actually paying attention...

Again, in your link to that article, that again references the incident I reference my post .. please tell me why the person just stood there while Watson was pleasuring himself, standing up?? You do know it took some time for that to occur! So that woman so scared a frightened that she stood there and waited for Watson to finish???? Man, a lawyer would rip that to shreads!!

Yet they paid her. It appears you haven't heard the entire story or watson shelled out a lot of money for no reason. You choose.

By your logic and apparent position - any woman who was raped, especially by someone they knew, would run to the police and file a police report. That'd be the right and sensible thing to do. Easy and black and white.

Trouble is more than 70% of all rape and sexual assault goes unreported. That's not 70% not prosecutes - it is UNREPORTED. I think there is probably a lot that goes through any woman (or man's) head that is exposed to some form of unwanted/unconsensual sexual coercion or act. I think like most things it's easy to say "well they should have done this .... " but the reality is very far from anything being simple or easy.

It's a little sickening how some people justify his actions, diverting the blame to the women that was subjected to it. If you were a 5' something woman, alone in a room with a 6'2" professional athlete, how much of a fight are you going to put up? When a guy is refusing your remarks towards etiquette, what do you do? I'm sure some of the women did leave/refuse/etc... probably why there aren't more accusations considering there were at least 66 women verified who he met for appointments. It doesn't matter, to me, if 20 of these women are going for a money grab. If he did inappropriate things to 8 women or 6 women or 2 women, that is too many. All in the name of getting a championship that you all don't realize, is still going to be EXTREMELY difficult to accomplish. Tom Brady has 7 rings. Manning got 2 in 17 tries, same for his brother. Brees, Favre, Rodgers only got one. Marino, Kelly, Fouts, Moon, McNair.. Bernie, Sipe, etc... never won any.

Some are acting like they can overlook these lewd acts because it will bring you a Super Bowl trophy, even if the suspension goes away, the odds are still not great that it happens.

It's more than a little sickening how some people can justify finding a man guilty of accusations w/out him ever be convicted in a court or law. Let's bring back the days of burning "witches" at the stake.

I've been trying to make sense of the "they presented no evidence of force, etc, coercian" bit, and all I can think of is that this quote is in reference to "other than testimony". Since the entire thing has always been a He Said/She Said thing and there was no physical evidence one way or the other, but there have been plenty of accusations via depositions, that the quote simply means "the NFL presented no physical evidence aside from accuser testimony". If so, then that's pretty much non-news. We knew that all there would be is testimony.

Now, if they didn't even present testimony, then there is definitely something afoot at the Circle K, dude.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/23/us/metoo-replacements.html

It's 2022 not 1962. Get a clue.

I think you got the numbers mixed up and meant - 1692 when the Salem Witch Trials happened

But 1962 is when Jim Brown began his beat down tour. He was accused at least 6 times of beating and sexually assaulting women. I guess 6 isn't a big enough number to keep some people from rooting for the Browns. Maybe they set the bar at double digits or something.

Well for one thing, Watson was accused of sexual misconduct, not rape!! Please provide any link, that said Watson raped a woman!!.. Second. women were represented by a lawyer, had their statements before 2 Grand Juries in Texas and what did they get...NOTHING.. 2 prosecutors could not get the Grand Juries to proceed with ANY CRIMINAL CHARGES!!.. So your rape example is mute because those women had legal representation and took their stories to court AND two different prosecutor did proceed. Came up with nothing!!.. SO they had to go the civil route because of lower threshold.

Then the NFL investigates, again, found no EVIDENCE of violence or threats or physical contact!!.. SO how do you and Pitt get to rape when you do not have those 3 points??? I 'll be waiting for your evidence of ANY of that, let alone rape! All you and Pitt have is an opinion based on NOTHING...

Look, Mike Florio was riding Watson like a rented mule has had to change his tune because of lack of evidence now. He has now backed up to say Watson might not get any games:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...at-the-nfls-case-against-deshaun-watson/

Just like my earlier posts, where I did listen to some of the accusers on Youtube and other places, never said Watson touched them, made them touch Watson's private areas nor did Watson make them stay in keep them in the room.

All that is consistent is Watson asked them for some real close massages. Why didnt they say no?? Why did they leave if they were so uncomfortable?? Why did they still accept money for the services they did provide? Please answer some of these questions BEFORE you type anything else!!

Wow, the issue against Watson does not have to have a conviction in the court of law just like the vast majority of the suspensions in the NFL. There are hardly any criminal convictions in the cases addressed by the NFL. First Kraft, then Snyder, then Jones and now the Salem Witch Trials - are you sure you don't want to add in the Holocaust to try to prove your point?

Your continued attempts trying to justify a light suspension by comparing what he did to someone else is like trying to compare a beachball to a blimp. Watson should be judged on his own actions period. The point you continue to either miss or just blindly accept as inconsequential is that Watson had 66 or more encounters with different women over a 17-month period. That's a minimum of 3.88 different women every month with the vast majority of those women not even being a qualified masseuse. 24 of those women so far or 36.4% have filed a civil suit against Watson for sexual misconduct. With 70% of all cases going unreported that gives Watson the possibility of having an additional 29.4 more alleged victims out there that are too afraid to file a claim because of the exact same treatment you are dishing out on this forum about them. What chance do they have to have their story believed against a high profile person like Watson?

You want precedent, name me an NFL player that has ever had this many civil suits filed against him. I'll go even one better, find me an NFL player anywhere past or present that used 66 different women as alleged masseuses in a 17-month period. Not to mention that if the reports are true and Watson was actually asking for extras, that's a felony in the state of Texas for solicitation.

I don't pretend to know what is going to happen to Watson and your wish may come to pass. I don't believe this is over by a long shot and more dirt is coming. I also don't believe Watson is going to change by being allowed to skate.

Nowhere did I suggest Watson raped anyone. They don't carry stats on Women who are victims of sexual misconduct. My point was you claim the women should have "just" acted rationally. The reality when in un-consensual situations - that is easy to say, but reality is something different. The stats I quoted are what is available based on women being sexually assaulted. In some respects going to the police to report the incident AFTER the incident makes "more sense" than dealing with the unwanted situation right in the moment. Again - easy to say it, reality is different.

It's sad that we have posters who hate Watson so much that they throw words like rape, predator, sexual deviant around in some desperate attempt to paint him in an even more negative light than he is currently in. Every single one who does so on this board are huge Baker fans. It's not a coincidence.

Watson seems to have earned his labels,imho. But sure, he’s not culpable at all, so you should smear his NOT fans. I still haven’t seen a thing to convince me he’s not a rapey predator. Sorry you struggle with it, but that’s how I feel, SO WHO ARE YOU to judge me for that? NOBODY, that’s who.

So you lie constantly now - yesterday you stated I was going to be on ignore and you wouldn't respond to me.

As for the use and reference to rape - use that advanced English degree that you brag about to find comprehension and find anywhere I called Watson a rapist or even inferred it. Oh - that's right. You can't.

You are back to twisting - lying - manipulating and flat out trolling. shame on you.

But there's more than you... there are a bunch of posters... at least enough to mention the "Baker Boy" connection every five posts.

So, you say it eight times a day, Vers, why not just give us the list of these posters?

Who are all these Baker fans that call Watson a rapist??

Yea.. there are posters here that are confusing their opinions as fact!!!... Which its not!! They only look at the so called number of women but not the actual events that are known at this point. I have no problem with folks thinking Watson is scum/weird.. That is their opinion.. but dont throw around rape and other accusatory language when there is no proof of it. The same folks doing this are probably Louis C.K fans and were crying about Cancel Culture!!

Just me - but the thought process by most seemed to be that among the 26 there was likely to be some that jumped on the band wagon. But the inclusion of some that were simply after the $$$ does not mean none of the claims are legitimate.

Tony Buzbee: Deshaun Watson accuser whose son undermined her claims isn’t one of my clients

Posted by Mike Florio on July 8, 2022, 10:09 AM EDT
link



A recent report regarding one of the claims made against Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson cast significant doubt as to that specific allegation, and it sparked speculation that it was the first clear piece of evidence suggesting that the many lawsuits filed against Watson are part of a conspiracy and/or shakedown. Attorney Tony Buzbee, who represents the 24 women who have sued Watson, has responded to the report.

Here’s the key text from a stream of Thursday tweets from Josina Anderson of CBS Sports: “I’m told there’s a recording of an interview with the adult son of 1 of 12 women the NFL interviewed in the Deshaun Watson case — stating his mom initially was complimentary of Watson in their conversations after the massage, but later switched her account and tone after negative allegations surfaced about Watson. The son intimated his mother intended to reward his silence, per league source. There’s a feeling that the NFL was initially cagey about details they learned from the woman’s son — after only mentioning they interviewed him in their report. The son’s recording was later reviewed by Watson’s side revealing the aforementioned details — presumably illuminating why this particular accuser was not included with the 5 women the NFL ultimately focused on at the hearing.”


Buzbee says that this particular accuser isn’t one of his clients.

“It has been reported that twelve alleged victims spoke to the NFL,” Buzbee said in an email sent to PFT. “I have confirmed that ten of those women were my clients. None of my clients had a son questioned by the NFL. As I’ve said, there were several women who called my office wanting to sue Watson that I decided, based on my trial experience, not to represent. I know that at least one of those women, who I declined to represent, spoke to the NFL and also gave a statement to the police. I can only assume it was that woman who is the subject of the leak tweeted about by Ms. Anderson.”

It’s still unclear why the NFL didn’t speak to all of Buzbee’s clients, or how the NFL decided to whittle the 12 cases they investigated down to five that were presented at last week’s hearing. For now, the big takeaway is this — to the extent that some regarded Thursday’s report as the first tangible proof that the claims made by Buzbee’s clients are falling apart, the claim that was the subject of Thursday’s report wasn’t made by anyone he has agreed to represent. Indeed, it appears that Buzbee, after vetting her claims, decided not to proceed on her behalf.

Like you have done with Baker?

Funny how now that we have access to a lot of information we find out about these things when that wasn't happening in 1962. I had no idea about any of that until the internet.

And many claim that it's Buzzbee that's trying this in the court of public opinion. Yet as we see it's actually watson supporters doing so as well. And quite dishonestly BTW.

But the Jim Brown example is perfect illustration of what i meant. What was covered up, hushed up and "acceptable" in 1962 would never fly now. Hunt got booted off his team for pushing a girl and then not managing to connect with a kick (I think from memory).... Jim Brown is alleged to have done so much worse multiple times.

in 2022 - per the link I posted - 200+ men in important positions across the country have lost their positions and been replaced .... not because they were found guilty in a court of law. Not because a GJ did or did not indict them ... but because they were accused of sexual misconduct. The days of "she was asking for it" or turning a blind eye to allegations by credible witnesses/victims are over. Just like they should be.

The days of having your day in court are gone as well, as things things play out in the media, and public opinion is set before they get their day in court, and no mater the outcome, the opinion is set. The court proceedings are just determining which side will be most up in arms at the end.

So do you mean you can't seem to see that both sides are doing that in this case or do you mean you do see how both sides are doing that in this case?

Let's be candid here, first -just because Watson wasn't indicted by the Grand Jury does not mean he hasn't done criminal acts and can't be taken to the GJ again. There's no such thing as double jeopardy with a GJ. The GJ can be convened anytime additional evidence is discovered of possible criminal intent.

Second, just because Watson was not indicted by the GJ does not give him a free pass concerning the NFL PCP. The vast majority if not all of the NFL suspensions for this type of crap the last 5-years did not contain criminal charges. The forum posters that keep posting the BS about not being criminally charged are ignoring the "FACT" that a criminal charge is not relevant to be disciplined under the PCP.

Third, some can choose to ignore the scope of the situation if they want, but they would be fruitless in their attempt to name any situation in the history of the NFL that has had even a quarter the number of civil libel case complaints filed against them that Watson has earned with his alleged actions. Some want to talk about precedent, Watson has set a new level of precedent that will likely never be challenged.

Fourth, settling 20 of the civil cases out of court does not a) denote guilt or innocence or b) distract from the pure unprecedented volume of civil complaints filed against Watson. Though, legally, the NFL might not be able to present the content of the alleged civil complaint of those 20 women as evidence now, the settlement would not contain any notation of guilt or innocence so most certainly could and most likely did represent the scope of the issue of 24 civil complaints and how those cases in totality applies to the PCP: As it stands, to put it simply, the NFL commissioner can punish a player who engages in "conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game.

Fifth, with the knowledge of and/or verification of, Watson has been found to have had massage encounters with a minimum of at least 66 different women over the 17-month period in question. There are rumors that the number may be well over 100 women. 24 of those women have filed civil lawsuits against Watson for alleged sexual harassment and/or abuse. The vast majority of the other 42 plus women have not given sworn depositions as to their interactions with Watson. Anything less than an indefinite suspension at this time leaves the NFL, Cleveland Browns, NFLPA, and Watson susceptible to possible future litigation and would certainly further damage the integrity of the league, team, and principles along with the public confidence in the game. If Judge Robinson rules on a light or zero suspension without proper closure, the principles will instantly become susceptible not only additional litigation but also by not taking extreme caution of the unsettled matters currently or possibly future accusations against Watson will certainly cause further damage to the integrity of the game.

It is clearly understood why some would want this whole thing to be over as soon as Judge Robinson rules what is hoped in a positive light for Watson in the next week or so. Unfortunately, the Judge's ruling will not end the saga for Watson or the Browns because there are too many unsettled parts to the overall case and the chances of future litigation. If Judge Robinson leaves an opening IMHO, that opening will certainly be taken advantage of against Watson which will enhance the negative feelings about the integrity of the NFL, Browns, and the NFLPA in addition as it pertains to the acceptable/unacceptable treatment of women.

The ugly may be just beginning for Watson and the Browns.

j/c...