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A few things. You are misrepresenting things again. Throw asked what was different from this year's team than last year's team. I brought up Baker being ranked 30th by PFF. Am I not allowed to answer a question just because the answer involves Baker? Secondly, the hijacking of the thread had nothing to do w/my comment. It was all about who was at fault for Baker playing while injured. Most of you blamed Stefanski. Next, when Wentz wanted traded from Philly, the Colts gave up more than 2 3rds or whatever you said. Maybe you are referring to what the Colts got from Washington, but Wentz did not ask to be traded from Indy. He asked to be traded from Philly. Let's look at the compensation, shall we:

Quote
The Indianapolis Colts' first-round pick in the 2022 NFL Draft is firmly in the hands of the Philadelphia Eagles.

That became abundantly clear on Saturday when Carson Wentz took all 63 offensive snaps in the Colts' 22-16 win over the Arizona Cardinals. Per the terms of the trade that sent Wentz from Philly to Indy this past offseason, the Eagles received a conditional second-rounder that would become a first-rounder if Wentz played 75 percent of the Colts' snaps in 2021. The trade also stipulated that the second-rounder would become a first-rounder if the Colts make the playoffs and Wentz took 70 percent of the snaps. But while the Colts have yet to clinch a playoff berth, Wentz has clinched the 75-percent threshold.


https://www.nfl.com/news/eagles-to-receive-indianapolis-colts-first-round-pick-from-wentz-trade


Finally, I am going to put you on ignore just like I did w/Pit because I am tired of you falsely portraying things when it comes to me. I had some hope you would become more reasonable, but it's not to be. I am telling all this because I have a strong suspicion that you will keep replying to me even though you know I won't read it. It's never really been about you debating me. Instead, just like Pit........you just want others to see me in a certain light. It's a message board and you have that right. Enjoy.

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I can't believe there are this many people who care to argue about the 5th year option

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Originally Posted by FrankZ
And yet the 5th year is included in the rookie contract.

The team has to choose one way or the other. So they can take a 5 year contract and shorten it to 4.

Or you could stop always picking nits daily.

Yes, they can decide whether to extend that contract to a fifth year or not. You should stop trying to make points that do not exist.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
And yet the 5th year is included in the rookie contract.

The team has to choose one way or the other. So they can take a 5 year contract and shorten it to 4.

Or you could stop always picking nits daily.

Yes, they can decide whether to extend that contract to a fifth year or not. You should stop trying to make points that do not exist.

They can decide to utilize the fifth year that is already in the contract. The contract doesn't get longer. The player doesn't sign anything additional. The team notifies the league it will keep the fifth year in the contract.

They can, however, decide to shorten the contract by declining the option.

If you don't like my points don't read them and certainly don't try to sell me tinkle in a bottle and tell me it's Mountain Dew.

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Originally Posted by IrishDawg42
I can't believe there are this many people who care to argue about the 5th year option

You've been here long enough. This cannot surprise you.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
And yet the 5th year is included in the rookie contract.

The team has to choose one way or the other. So they can take a 5 year contract and shorten it to 4.

Or you could stop always picking nits daily.

Yes, they can decide whether to extend that contract to a fifth year or not. You should stop trying to make points that do not exist.

They can decide to utilize the fifth year that is already in the contract. The contract doesn't get longer. The player doesn't sign anything additional. The team notifies the league it will keep the fifth year in the contract.

They can, however, decide to shorten the contract by declining the option.

If you don't like my points don't read them and certainly don't try to sell me tinkle in a bottle and tell me it's Mountain Dew.

If they do not choose to pick up a fifth year option it's a four year contract. If they choose to pick up that option it extends the contract to five years. The choice the team makes actually decides if the contract will be extended to five years. In Baker's case they extended his contract from four years to five. This isn't difficult. I read your points for the entertainment value.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
[quote=FrankZ]

If they do not choose to pick up a fifth year option it's a four year contract. If they choose to pick up that option it extends the contract to five years. The choice the team makes actually decides if the contract will be extended to five years. In Baker's case they extended his contract from four years to five. This isn't difficult. I read your points for the entertainment value.

Since the year is part of the contract they can shorten not extend.

When a team pays the roster bonus they aren't giving the player a raise. When they exercise the option they haven't extended the contract. The contracts starts as a 5 year contract (4 plus 1).

Actually is seems you only read posts around here to have something to fight about.

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It starts out as a four year contract with an option by the team to extend it to five years. I didn't start this fight, you did. It's only a four year deal unless the team decides to extend the contract to five.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Read the room, guys.


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2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Thanks for posting that. What a great hire Callahan has turned out to be. Our zone blocking is a joy to watch. Also, did anyone else notice the power in the punch from Teller? Damn, that man is strong. I also liked how he chipped the D-lineman so the OT could clean up while Teller went to the second level and completely engulfed the LBer.

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Jeremy Fowler polls NFL coaches, players, scouts and executives to compile lists of the top 10 players at various positions. I posted the results of the top 10 QBs on another thread. Yesterday, the top 10 RBs were revealed. Here is the list.

1. D. Henry
2. J. Taylor
3. N. Chubb
4. D. Cook
5. A. Kamara
6. J. Mixon
7. C. McCaffrey
8. N. Harris
9. A. Jones
10. J. Williams

I also saw a quick screen shot of the top 10 WRs this morning while I was doing payroll. I don't believe A. Cooper was on that list, but I'm not positive.

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McCaffrey hasn't played a full season in years. not sure how he can be top 10?

In fact, he has had 3 seasons with 450 yards or less

He has had 1 season with 1387 yards in2019.
He barely eclipsed 1,000 years in 2018.

not exactly top 10 materials IMO


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He got ranked because he is so good. Runner and pass catcher. The quote attributed to him was that was so low because he has missed so many games, but the exec said he expected McCaffrey to be much higher next year. The dude is a special talent.

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
McCaffrey hasn't played a full season in years. not sure how he can be top 10?

In fact, he has had 3 seasons with 450 yards or less

He has had 1 season with 1387 yards in2019.
He barely eclipsed 1,000 years in 2018.

not exactly top 10 materials IMO

That 2019 season he also had 1,000 yards receiving and 19 TDs

Hell, last year he had almost 800 total yards and 2 TDs, behind arguably the worst offensive line in the NFL and only played in 7 games.

#10 there, Javonte Williams only had 900 yards rushing and 4 TDs, if running is all you are looking at.

I think these lists that Vers is talking about is the one's that Fowler is asking these sources, if you had your choice THIS year, who would you want? In this case, by all accounts, McCaffrey is supposedly fully healthy(which he wasn't entering training camp in 2021). So it is most definitely speculative on his part, but if he stays healthy he is one of the most dynamic players in the NFL. I can see where coaches, players, etc. would name him as one they would want.

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Obviously, there is a difference between fantasy football numbers and best players, but there is some correlation. This is from Fantasy Football Calculator.


https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/rankings/rb


Rank Name Team Pos Bye
1. Jonathan Taylor IND RB 14
2. Christian McCaffrey CAR RB 13
3. Derrick Henry TEN RB 6
4. Austin Ekeler LAC RB 8
5. Najee Harris PIT RB 9
6. Dalvin Cook MIN RB 7
7. Nick Chubb CLE RB 9
8. D'Andre Swift DET RB 6
9. Javonte Williams DEN RB 9
10. Alvin Kamara NO RB 14
11. Aaron Jones GB RB 14
12. Saquon Barkley NYG RB 9
13. Ezekiel Elliott DAL RB 9
14. Leonard Fournette TB RB 11
15. Antonio Gibson WAS RB 14
16. Joe Mixon CIN RB 10
17. David Montgomery CHI RB 14
18. J.K. Dobbins BAL RB 10
19. Elijah Mitchell SF RB 9
20. Cam Akers LAR RB 7
21. James Conner ARI RB 13
22. Josh Jacobs LV RB 6
23. Travis Etienne JAX RB 11
24. Damien Harris NE RB 10
25. A.J. Dillon GB RB 14
26. Miles Sanders PHI RB 7
27. Breece Hall NYJ RB 10
28. Rashaad Penny SEA RB 11
29. Kareem Hunt CLE RB 9
30. Tony Pollard DAL RB 9

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I can only imagine the ridicule if the Fabulous Baker Brothers had used fantasy football to try to support anything regards Baker in a pure football thread. Ey Ey Ey.


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Continuing the ranking series. Jeremy Fowler polls NFL coaches, players, scouts and executives to compile lists of the top 10 players at various positions. Here is the list for the top 10 wide receivers.


1. D. Adams--Raiders
2. C. Kupp--Rams
3. J. Chase--Bengals
4. J. Jefferson--Vikings
5. T. Hill--Dolphins
6. S. Diggs--Bills
7. D. Hopkins--Cardinals
8. M. Evans--Bucs
9. D. Samuel--49ers
10. DK Metcalf--Seahawks

Surprised Keenun Allen isn't on this list. One could argue for M. Thomas even though he missed most of the last two years.

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Continuing Jeremy Fowler's list of top 10 players at each position by polling 50 plus coaches, players, and executives.

Tight Ends:

1. G. Kittle
2. T. Kelce
3. D. Waller
4. M. Andrews
5. K. Pitts
6. D. Goedert
7. TJ Hockenson
8. D. Schultz
9. D. Knox
10. H. Henry

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Something has been bugging me for days and guess this is the best place to discuss.

OL our LT Wills. One thing about OL I know it more than any other position. As a coach I got the most satisfaction coaching OL than any other including HC, OC and DC which I have been all on several levels. Youth to Semi Pro.

My point is not to pat myself on the back. It is something that if I watch I do not need any PFF bs to tell me who what and where. If I don't watch I appreciate the info to educate my self a bit on the players. Now in Wills case. He played almost all last season on a bum ankle. I believe he saw Baker playing hurt and he did so also. But what ever problems he had in his Pass Pro and run blocking was retarded by his bum ankle. There were occasions that he just sucked it up and when he did so his technique was more than satisfactory. The kid can drop kick with the best of them. Also when healthy his zone blocking skills will be better. I understand when you all read the PFF grades and he is pretty low and a label is put on him in a negative. He is a lot better than the PFF grade. You have to have eyes on him to tell.

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PFF is an analytical grade. It is not and end all in research.

It is more of a starting point. There are things it does not factor like health and playing hurt. If you are hurt and the injury impacts performance. PFF can not see that.

The Browns extended and paid Njoku. It was not based upon PFF grade. It was based upon what they see in him and what they are expecting from him.

Wills has the talent. He needs to be more consistent. That is what Joe Thomas stated. At times he loses technique. Injury? Maybe. Mentality just as likely.

You play each down to perfection. You can only control what you do on each snap. Young guys sometimes fall into dwelling upon getting beat and then get beat again.

Berry has complete faith in Wills. I believe that his off season to do list was made clear to him and waht he needed to do.

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I think this is a big year for Wills. Not sure or not if he has Berry's complete faith in him? I also think that the PFF grade is more than a "starting point." It far greater than a fan saying that a guy stinks because he gave up a sack after the qb held the ball way too long or fled a secure pocket.

I have some thoughts on Wills.

--He commits too many penalties. 11 in 2020 and 4 last year. 15 in two years is too much.

--He has good agility and is pretty explosive coming out of his stance.

--The injury was an issue for him last year.

--He has been inconsistent.

--Sometimes takes bad angles.

--Has struggled in the running game at times due to angles and footwork.

--I wonder if moving from RT to LT has been an issue?

--Has the talent, but I heard he needs to work harder. Not sure if that is true or not?

--Has the talent to be a Pro-Bowler.

--Wirfs and even Becton have been better than he is and they were drafted after him. However, it has become hard to evaluate collegiate offensive line, much like college qbs.

--Even w/all the negatives I included, he is still good enough. We could do a lot worse. He's good enough to win with right now and we has the potential to get much better. You can't have an All-Pro at every position.

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PFF has value. It is a deep dive into analytics. However, it is not an end all.

Like I stated there are things it can not measure.

I think you look at the grade and then study film. A lot goes into the PFF grade so there is for sure value.

However, there is more to evaluating a player than the PFF grade.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think this is a big year for Wills. Not sure or not if he has Berry's complete faith in him? I also think that the PFF grade is more than a "starting point." It far greater than a fan saying that a guy stinks because he gave up a sack after the qb held the ball way too long or fled a secure pocket.

I have some thoughts on Wills.

--He commits too many penalties. 11 in 2020 and 4 last year. 15 in two years is too much.

--He has good agility and is pretty explosive coming out of his stance.

--The injury was an issue for him last year.

--He has been inconsistent.

--Sometimes takes bad angles.

--Has struggled in the running game at times due to angles and footwork.

--I wonder if moving from RT to LT has been an issue?

--Has the talent, but I heard he needs to work harder. Not sure if that is true or not?

--Has the talent to be a Pro-Bowler.

--Wirfs and even Becton have been better than he is and they were drafted after him. However, it has become hard to evaluate collegiate offensive line, much like college qbs.

--Even w/all the negatives I included, he is still good enough. We could do a lot worse. He's good enough to win with right now and we has the potential to get much better. You can't have an All-Pro at every position.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think this is a big year for Wills. Not sure or not if he has Berry's complete faith in him? I also think that the PFF grade is more than a "starting point." It far greater than a fan saying that a guy stinks because he gave up a sack after the qb held the ball way too long or fled a secure pocket.

I have some thoughts on Wills.

--He commits too many penalties. 11 in 2020 and 4 last year. 15 in two years is too much.

--He has good agility and is pretty explosive coming out of his stance.

--The injury was an issue for him last year.

--He has been inconsistent.

--Sometimes takes bad angles.

--Has struggled in the running game at times due to angles and footwork.

--I wonder if moving from RT to LT has been an issue?

--Has the talent, but I heard he needs to work harder. Not sure if that is true or not?

--Has the talent to be a Pro-Bowler.

--Wirfs and even Becton have been better than he is and they were drafted after him. However, it has become hard to evaluate collegiate offensive line, much like college qbs.

--Even w/all the negatives I included, he is still good enough. We could do a lot worse. He's good enough to win with right now and we has the potential to get much better. You can't have an All-Pro at every position.
1. I think moving him from RT to LT has been a struggle. I don't have a football
Almanac or team guide in front of me.....but how many drafted RTs have
Made a successful transition to LT in the last 20 years ?
When you do that , the OT has to relearn muscle memory , hand placement
Etc etc.

2.I don't think he plays with enough aggression from play to play

3.his effort isn't 100%

4. Will the team pick up his 5th year option ?

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think this is a big year for Wills. Not sure or not if he has Berry's complete faith in him? I also think that the PFF grade is more than a "starting point." It far greater than a fan saying that a guy stinks because he gave up a sack after the qb held the ball way too long or fled a secure pocket.



--The injury was an issue for him last year. .

Interesting. Do you think his injury affected his play in the other areas you mentioned? And, if so, we could take it a step further. Couldn't we?

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Quote
1. I think moving him from RT to LT has been a struggle. I don't have a football
Almanac or team guide in front of me.....but how many drafted RTs have
Made a successful transition to LT in the last 20 years ?
When you do that , the OT has to relearn muscle memory , hand placement
Etc etc.

Here is an article about it:

Quote
What will go into moving Jedrick Wills Jr. from right tackle to left for Browns?

Jedrick Wills
By Tom Reed
Apr 21, 2020
9

Grab a toothbrush, apply some paste and begin your normal cleaning routine. (Don’t forget the gumline, kids.) Now, take the toothbrush in the opposite hand and repeat the process.

It feels a bit awkward, right? The technique a little sloppy.

What does good dental hygiene have to do with trying to convert a right tackle to a left tackle? You might be surprised.

“I don’t do this with everybody, but there are times I will have a guy do that or pick up objects with their hand that isn’t dominant,” said Duke Manyweather, an offensive line scouting and development consultant. “It’s just a little thing that helps wake up that side of the brain.”

Baker Mayfield will need more than ambidextrous tooth brushers to keep T.J. Watt out of his grill this season. But every tip and tweak is likely appreciated by offensive tackle candidates looking to fill a hole on the left side of the Browns’ line.

Cleveland holds the No. 10 overall pick in the NFL Draft, which opens Thursday night. The club clearly has a need at left tackle, and there are four enticing first-round options: Jedrick Wills Jr. (Alabama), Tristan Wirfs (Iowa), Mekhi Becton (Louisville) and Andrew Thomas (Georgia). (Editor’s note: Wills was drafted by the Browns with their first-round pick Thursday night)

But Wills and Wirfs were primarily right tackles in college. Is there significant risk in drafting a player that high and switching him to the other side of the formation?

It depends on whom you ask.

“Can you switch from right to left tackle? Yes, you can,” said Manyweather, who’s worked with NFL standouts such as Lane Johnson and Trent Brown. “Is it easy? No, it is not. Especially when you have volume accumulation on one side.”

Former NFL offensive lineman Geoff Schwartz, who played six NFL seasons, agrees with Manyweather.

“Moving Wills or Wirfs to left tackle is scary in my opinion because there’s a reason they weren’t there in college,” Schwartz said. “You can argue Wills wasn’t (moved) because Tua (Tagovailoa) is left-handed and they wanted him protecting Tua’s blindside. … (But) I don’t really know if that’s the way you want to do this. Becton and Thomas might be better options.”

Future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas, whose retirement following the 2017 season created the Browns’ void at left tackle, believes it takes about three months of training to make the conversion. Becton would be his first choice, but, he added, the lack of game experience on the left side shouldn’t be a deal breaker for Browns management.

“I would have zero concerns for Wirfs or Wills making the switch,” Thomas wrote in a text message to The Athletic several weeks ago.

A year ago, the Browns were one of the NFL’s most hyped teams heading into the draft. Mayfield and running back Nick Chubb were coming off excellent rookie seasons. The club acquired receiver Odell Beckham Jr., adding to an offensive arsenal that contributed to seven wins in 2018.

But the Browns crumbled under the weight of expectations. Multiple factors contributed to a 6-10 record that cost John Dorsey and Freddie Kitchens their jobs. Mayfield regressed in his second season in part because of his lack of trust in the offensive line, specifically at the two tackle positions.

Andrew Berry, the club’s new head of football operations, quickly addressed right tackle needs in free agency by adding Jack Conklin. In a recent conference call, Berry was asked about shifting offensive linemen from one side to another to fill positions.

“From my perspective, tackles are tackles,” he said. “In terms of guys making the switch, certainly, there is an element of muscle memory that needs to be reprogrammed, so to speak, for people who have played one side or the other for a long period of time. If you look, Jack Conklin was a college left tackle that has been a pretty well-accomplished right tackle in our league.”

Schwartz is familiar with another such story. His brother, Mitchell, played left tackle at Cal before blossoming into a stud right tackle with the Browns and the Chiefs, with whom he won a Super Bowl last season.

The transition from left to right seems to have a higher success rate, Geoff Schwartz said, in part because right tackles don’t need as much athleticism at the NFL level. While it’s true pro defenses have moved their best pass rushers all over the formation in recent years — think of Von Miller’s versatility in Denver — left tackles remain the most important position on the offensive line. They often protect the quarterback’s blindside in a predominantly right-handed throwing league.

“It’s not as much now, but the left tackle is still typically more athletic than the right tackle,” Geoff Schwartz said. “There is a reason they go from left (in college) to right in the NFL and not as much the other way around.”

Manyweather is a big proponent of “cross-training” pupils. Whether working with tackles or guards, he drills them on the left and right sides. The purpose is getting both body and mind out of their comfort zones.

One of Manyweather’s best success stories is Trent Brown, who’s made the transition on multiple occasions during his five seasons with San Francisco, New England and Oakland.

“From a biomechanics standpoint, it helps balance out the body,” said Manyweather of his cross-training approach. “If you take a guy on the right side and expect him to be the same all-world player on the left side, you are doing him a disservice. Can he be good? Of course he can, but it takes a lot.

“Set points change, where you need to expand to at the top of the rush changes, the overall footwork … it is completely backward.”

Manyweather would like to see Wills remain on the right side.

“I think he’s going to be a very good pro,” he said. “I can see him becoming a dominant right tackle. I wouldn’t switch him to the left side. I think you would be doing the kid a disservice. If you draft him, let him eat where he’s hunted at for the past couple years.”

There are examples of tackles moving from right to left early in their careers and flourishing as blindside protectors. The most obvious is two-time All-Pro Tyron Smith of the Cowboys. Smith is among the outliers, however.

Manyweather, Schwartz and former longtime NFL offensive line coach Paul Alexander agree the earlier a player makes the transition, the better the chance for success.

One mistake some teams make is trying to move a player in season or during training camp from one side to the other.

“You don’t have enough time to practice it,” Thomas wrote.

“It’s a learned skill, not genetic right/left hand (kind of thing). So it’s just a matter of the reps at the other side needed to get comfortable.”


Tristan Wirfs of Iowa is expected to be a first-round pick in the NFL Draft. (Justin Hayworth / Associated Press)
Geoff Schwartz seldom had trouble practicing at left guard. He knew the assignments. He could get into the sets. Taking meaningful reps in two regular-season games, however, short-circuited his brain.

“I couldn’t play left guard worth a damn in the NFL when I was put there,” he said. “Practice? I was fine. But in a game my hands and footwork weren’t in sync. Then, you start to revert back to what you know. … When I would get my hands on someone, my feet switched back to playing right guard.”

Alexander watched Panthers offensive lineman Daryl Williams, who recently signed with Buffalo, endure similar struggles last season. Tackle blocking is an “inside hands activity,” Alexander explained.

“You control the inside pad of the rusher with your inside hand,” he said. “The outside hand is used as a guide hand to ward off the defender or to slow him down and control him or hook him. A lot of guys will switch from right (tackle) to left (tackle) without learning how to switch hands.

“(Williams) kept trying to block guys with his left hand. That’s what you do as a right tackle.”

Complicating issues this offseason is the COVID-19 pandemic, which has limited interactions and scrubbed private workouts. Obviously, coaches can learn only so much from putting players through drills in a single workout, but it supplies position coaches with valuable intel.

Alexander was given a hypothetical situation. How would he react to his team wanting to select a Wills or Wirfs and switching him to left tackle without the luxury of a private workout?

“If they were to come to me and say, ‘Hey, Paul, how do you feel about that,’ I would say I don’t feel good about that at all,” Alexander said. “In the first round, you cannot miss. Why not take a real left tackle? I would take Becton or Thomas or trade back and take (Josh) Jones (from the University of Houston).”

Some believe the Browns are considering trading back to select Ezra Cleveland of Boise State.

“I like him,” Alexander said. “He’s got a chance, but he has some major technical development ahead of him.”

In media conference calls, Berry and Paul DePodesta sound as if they are taking a longer view with the franchise’s approach, not expecting an immediate impact from their draft picks. But given Mayfield’s regression and the glaring need at left tackle, can the Browns afford patience in this circumstance?

The disclosure of Becton’s flagged drug test at the combine adds another layer to their decision. “I’m not going to comment on specifics for individual guys, but we’ll take all information into consideration,” Berry said Monday.

Trading for Redskins veteran tackle Trent Williams remains an option. So does signing 38-year-old Jason Peters. There’s much to consider with the draft rapidly approaching.

Experts interviewed for this story all agree the Browns made a wise choice in hiring Bill Callahan as their offensive line coach and adding Scott Peters as his assistant. Their experience could prove invaluable in preparing a young left tackle for a potential abbreviated run-up to the regular season.

“The unknowns with this offseason could be a challenge for some teams, but with Bill Callahan and Scott Peters, I don’t care who you guys end up drafting, they will have that guy ready to go,” said Manyweather, who has been training Becton. “Bill Callahan is one of the best offensive line coaches in the league. He’s a grinder. He’s a hard-ass coach who gets the most out of his players.”

With social distancing still recommended and no timetable set for a return to practice, draft choices must continue to train on their own.

Is the extended period a benefit or detriment for offensive tackles looking to transition from right to left? Time will tell.

Until then, keep brushing those teeth with both hands.

https://theathletic.com/1760974/202...jr-from-right-tackle-to-left-for-browns/

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No, injuries that hamper performance are restricted to Wills. We can't carry that any further.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think this is a big year for Wills. Not sure or not if he has Berry's complete faith in him? I also think that the PFF grade is more than a "starting point." It far greater than a fan saying that a guy stinks because he gave up a sack after the qb held the ball way too long or fled a secure pocket.

I have some thoughts on Wills.

--He commits too many penalties. 11 in 2020 and 4 last year. 15 in two years is too much.

--He has good agility and is pretty explosive coming out of his stance.

--The injury was an issue for him last year.

--He has been inconsistent.

--Sometimes takes bad angles.

--Has struggled in the running game at times due to angles and footwork.

--I wonder if moving from RT to LT has been an issue?

--Has the talent, but I heard he needs to work harder. Not sure if that is true or not?

--Has the talent to be a Pro-Bowler.

--Wirfs and even Becton have been better than he is and they were drafted after him. However, it has become hard to evaluate collegiate offensive line, much like college qbs.

--Even w/all the negatives I included, he is still good enough. We could do a lot worse. He's good enough to win with right now and we has the potential to get much better. You can't have an All-Pro at every position.

15 in 2 seasons I think is a bogus point there Vers you show 11 in his rookie year making the switch from RT to LT. OK but then you state last year he had only 4. That is tremendous improvement considering it was only his 2nd season. Obviously even with the injuries he kept it to 4 that is great not a point of him committing too many penalties???

The I can agree with it was just the statement about penalties made me go HUH??? Wrfs n Becton do they have chip blockers to help???


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That's fair about the penalties. Then again, I can't make anyone happy. I'm either too lenient on Wills or too hard on him. LOL......

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Dont' take it so personal. Its not a Poll on who is making others happy...lol laugh Just keep with discussion and sharing knowledge and all will be happy. As for me I see and made my decisions on their work. I have a good eye for OL and the kid has talent I like the improvement from year 1 to 2.

jmho


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Originally Posted by bonefish
The title I was thinking of was "no quarterback thread."

However, I will start with DW will play games this year. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think so.

Now the rest of the team. The secondary will be one of the best in the NFL. A real plus for the secondary is depth. I really like the linebacking room. Glad that Wilson is gone. Walker and Phillips may not be all pros but they are good players. Phillips has good length and moves well in space. Walker is a smart player who can keep people in order. JOK IMO will be a stand out player. He has rare talent.

The DL with Clowney and Myles will be a solid unit. The interior will need to sift out who can do what. It may have some bad times but over time will be above average.

Obviously the offense is still to be decided. Brissett is more than capable to handle some games for this team. He is an upgrade over the way Baker played last year. If Brissett plays he will be good enough with this team to win games.

The reason is because he has loads of talent around him. Up front the OL should be better overall. Wills should improve and I believe he will. Losing Conklin for most of last year was a huge loss. He is an excellent RT when healthy. Hubbard has returned and Hudson should improve after a solid rookie season.We have the best guard tandem in the game. Harris and Pocic should not be much of a drop from Tretter. They will be have great guards around them.

Our runningback room is crazy good and very deep. I do not need to go into that.

We have improved the TE position by subtraction of Hooper. I expect Njoku to have a great season. Bryant can catch and is an improving player.

Cooper is a pros pro. He does everything a receiver should do. He is good at every aspect of the position.

DPJ, Schwartz, Bell and whoever else plays are good enough when looked at inside of the full offense.

The offense is run centric. That is how the team was built. No matter who plays quarterback there is plenty to fall back on. When DW does play. He will elevate the entire offense. He is a top five quarterback all day long.

The Browns are a talented team. We should win a lot of games.
To say Brissett will be an upgrade over the way Baker played last year, is that an assumption that Brissett will be healthy and consistently so?

Back to the "No Quarterbacks Thread"
How are the Linebackers going to play behind this DL middle on roller skates?
I wonder if if Jordan Elliott is going to play, can he knock down a few passes this year. Can Jordan Elliott get to 1 pass defensed per month of the season, that is an achieveable goal.
Not for a nosetackle! Not for a nosetackle? how about one quarterback pressure a game. A month? A quarter? How many Qb pressures is it reasonable to expect from the Browns (playing) left defensive tackle. I used playing instead of starting. Will any Browns IDL really play like a starting DL?, yes somebody has to start.

How are the linebackers going to play behind the question marks on the Browns in the interior of the DL >


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No offense, but you have mentioned the No Quarterback Thread multiple times.

So........take a look at the actual title. Then, read the first line after bone said he was thinking of naming this the No QB thread.


Quote
However, I will start with DW will play games this year. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think so.

Not sure, but isn't DW a QB?

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
McCaffrey hasn't played a full season in years. not sure how he can be top 10?
Shouldn't McCaffrey actually be one spot higher and ahead of Joe Mixon. If your team plays against them, McCaffrey is more dangerous especially if they both have a good day, if they both have a good day, Mixons' is not as good as McCaffreys, or not as dangerous imo.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
No offense, but you have mentioned the No Quarterback Thread multiple times.
Just thought.
If we have to endure Jacoby Brissett for the full year, maybe every thread will become the "No Quarterback Thread." rofl Hope it ain't so. Praying hands emoji! We still love you Jacoby emoji! brownie
That's a +1, maybe a -1 take your pick of whichever perspective. (One more mention, one less time avoiding to mention.)


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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