DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What area deserves our 1st pick?

What two positions do you see fixed if we take Thomas?

If Thomas is as good as said, and just isn't at the top because he is the best tackle in the draft, I don't have a problem selecting him.....to me the caution lies here...everyyear a qb is rated high simply because he is the best to come out. I think the same thing happens with LT's...especially on this board <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If the guy is really the best and really good compared to players who have done well in the NFL...we should take him.


Here are two things for you to chew on......

Say he is good.....would it make sense to trade the pick if someone offered. I am not talking some crazy Hercial Walker deal.....just a good fair deal....drop say 6-7 slots, get a 2nd this year and a 2nd or 3rd next year(or whatever actually works out to be fair without pulling up the stupid value chart)

The other factor is Savage. What do you feel the chances are that he sees other areas as needing more attention?

I guess there is a third...if you go by player value....is Thomas really top 3?? Better than a guy like Johnson, or Peterson?

I am not saying this with any bias because there are probably 2-3-4 players we could go with who make sense and any of them would be justified.

To be honest, I guess I do have a bias....I really favor a trade down no matter who is there if given the chance. No question we need quality.....but we also need quantity, and no matter who we draft, I am probably going to be fairly happy and fairly empty because I just don't see 1-2 players doing much.

I know.....long haul, and that has been the way I view almost everything in all avenues of life. But now, with the Browns, that just doesn't cut it anymore. I really don't give a darn about long term. I just care about next game, next season.

I think my rational is Thomas, Peterson and Branch.

If someone offers 2 firsts, you take that in a heartbeat.

The only team in that position I believe is Denver.

Based on what we know of Savage, I think he would take Gaines Adams over Thomas, Peterson or Branch. The guy loves linebackers and we have 1 spot left to fill. I have never seen a DE so fluid at dropping into coverage.

Next years draft is also the RB draft and we will probaly be drafting high enough to get one of them lol.

QB is a possibility and the one I think Phil would probaly be most interested in is Jamarcus Russell of LSU. He is similar to McNabb but better than Donovan at the same stage in their careers and a stronger arm and better accuracy.

Joe thomas is a possibility but I just dont see it happening but there is a guard to keep your eye on. Ben Grubbs of Auburn. Instant starter. Browns fans would love this kid. Hopefully will be there in the 2nd.

Dude something always happens. Like last year we were 1 spot away from Cutler falling to us and maybe striking a deal with Denver. It's just too hard to figure out trades and besides our luck no one would want to pay the price, or if they do it puts us at the tail end, when we really don't want to be .

As a side not what has to happen for us to have the number 3 pick? We lose and a Tampa Bay win? ( Let's go with the assumption that we lose...I mean we ARE starting Ken Dorsey)

I can see Adams as a real possibility.....and a guy like Grubbs would have immediate impact.

A Adams, Grubbs tendem would probably impact the team more than a Thomas, 2nd round Dlineman would.

Actually, no probably about it....it would.

You really think Phil would turn his back on Thomas if he is sittin there ?????

I don't...

I would rather have Thomas/Woodley than Adams/Grubbs

[color:"white"]We've the #3 right now. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> The only way that gets screwed up is if Dorsey goes out and beats the Texans. [/color]

Yeah....that guy should get cut if he goes out there and actually wins a game.

Bum <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bite your tongue ! <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Only in Cleveland could a QB win a game and still get hate mail <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I don't see that at all. The offense is a mess. If the Browns went Defense, it would be Branch who addresses the line issue.

I agree completely about Grubbs, and his teamate, Duckworth who would be a good later round selection.

Ain't that the truth ! lol <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

yep. I believe Phil will take the best player available in the first according to his belief system. He passed on McNeil twice due to concerns of injury. Thomas is coming off of a blown out ACL.

I think it would be real hard for Phil not to complete one unit on this team. Gaines Adams, Leon Williams, D'Qwell Jackson, Kamerion Wimbley.

Also joe Staley of Central Michigan and Aaron Seers of Tenn. are going to be there in the 2nd and 3rd. I know Phil has scouted Staley pretty hard this year also.

Its gonna be interesting but once again, I think your 2-4 round picks is where you get OL value.

.. " Also Joe Staley of Central Michigan and Aaron Seers of Tenn. "

Well you know where I am at ! I just don't get to see that much College ball down here ( look at Bobby Good from ECU. Talk about hands ! )

I have heard the the talk of Joe Staley from several posters now ! Give me some info .. you know the good stuff .. Thomas vers Staley ????

[color:"orange"]Just a couple of things.

1. I read on a few posts that we are now slotted at #3??? Yet we are tied with the Bucs...the tie breaker is not head to head - its still strength of schedule. You mean Tampa had a more difficult strength of schedule than us??? I assume we are #4 - my biggest worry is that Tampa is going to take Joe Thomas.

Ytown...Joe Thomas. Early on and he has gotten better as the year progressed due to the recovery of his knee. But early on I watched Wisc play n lose to Mich. A lot of the 2nd half they were down and had to pass. The Mich DE...I couldn't even see who it was. Joe Thomas was in his Knee bent form and moving his body left and right completely keeping the onrushing DE in the middle of his chest. Completely shielding so that I couldn't even see a arm/sleeve/helmet of the defender. This was play after play after play. Not once did he falter. I just swallowed ::gulp:: oh my gosh and this kid is going to get better after his knee has a good season under his belt. As for the running game he got into the second level quick and he is big and strong to seal the corner.

As for his knee injury...He is such a great athlete they had some injuries and he went and played both sides of the ball...he got the injury playing DT.

I feel he is better than D'Brick - he has all the tools for pass blocking + he is strong and dominant in the run game. He also is not succeptible to bull rushes.

I just hope Tampa goes for Calvin Johnson. That is if the Raiders don't go for him.

I'm hoping Brohm or Russell moves up the chart so that Quinn and one of the other QBs goes 1-2 let Tampa get Calvin...Simms is a lefty correct??? JThomas has less value then. I'm getting excited as Dorsey is our QB next game <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Branch and Lynch would be my next options if we win and move up we could be picking as far up as #7 but no more. Zona should lose to the Chargers, we win that puts us ahead of Houston...Giants might lose to the Redskins hard to tell with them. So if we win more than likely we will be picking 6 or 7. Oh and just for the record I most definately prefer Lynch over Peterson as our RB...the kid can run, block and catch passes like no other. He's ready to start from day one.

JMHO

[color:"white"]
I think fans are hoping/praying/dreaming that Tucker comes back and plays like he did last year. He'll be 33, he'll have missed 16 games over the past three seasons, and we have no idea just how deeply his psychological issues go. Maybe we squeeze another year out of him, but even if we do, we have to have an answer at RT.

By taking Thomas, we move Shaffer to where I've felt he was ultimately intended when we signed him.

Now it'd be easy to take the next step and assuming I'm suggesting that Shaffer is going to be a good right tackle. I think he's an inferior left tackle, but can be salvaged as a right tackle. That's fixing 2 positions with one draft pick, while if we take someone like Johnson, Peterson, etc etc we're just fixing one position. With as many holes on both lines as we have, getting a 2-for-1 is something I'd have to do, and with Savage outing the fact that he's thinking of moving Shaffer.......

[color:"white"]
Hehehe.........But what's fair? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If we knew what was fair, the question of whether or not to trade down wouldn't be a question <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

For dropping out of the 3rd slot, I'd probably want the '08 1st rounder, but that's just me. Would that draft pick solve more problems than drafting Thomas right now? Hard to say, especially when we don't know what's going to be available on the free agent market. There isn't a "yes" or "no" answer, but as good as I think Thomas is, I'm always open to trading down for the right deal. I just love the idea of fixing two spots on the line with one selection, so that we can fix the majority of our holes in one offseason.

[color:"white"]

Pure speculation on my part, which is very open to scrutiny and debate. Maybe he feels that Shaffer is still good enough for now. I doubt it. It's reading tea leaves, but I believe that if he felt Shaffer was doing a good job, he wouldn't have fired off with that quote in his presser. Now we need DE's, another OLB, a CB (forget the talk about 'Cutch coming back to be a starter. He's a year older, away from the game, and a step slower. He didn't have a step to lose) and a NT. Just because a plan makes sense to me doesn't mean he'll see it the same way (sucks to be him <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> ). Maybe he feels that another edge rusher is more important. I don't know. I do know it's a possibility that he's looking at other areas. I'd also urge people NOT to believe everything he says when talking about prospects. He threw the Ngata screen around all last year and we bought it hook, line, and sinker. [color:"white"]
You're not the first one to bring up this fear. Maybe I've just spent more time feeding my football addiction than most others by researching all this allready, hehe. Maybe people fear that LT is over-valued, therefore a prospect really isn't as good as the ratings. Maybe some are afraid that Thomas is the next Gallery. Maybe it's D) All of the above.

What I know is that from all the info I've absorbed, there are 3 "consensus" players: Quinn, Thomas, and Johnson. No, Peterson isn't a top-3 lock, just as Branch isn't a top-3 lock. Thomas isn't rated that highly just because he's a left tackle. He's rated that highly because he's a top-3 prospect.

[color:"white"]
I'm always favoring a trade-down, but unlike in any year past, if Thomas is there, I'm not making the deal unless I'm coming out way ahead. I feel that Thomas is a better prospect than 'Brick was, and I don't think we can pass on a guy like this unless the deal is golden. [/color]

Anyone up for some chatroom draft convo?

Thomas is the better all around player and played against better competition but CM does play a pretty tough schedule for a small school. They play Michigan every year and I was able to watch CM @ Ky this year.

Staley has more upside to be honest. He is quick as a cat. He is fast and that he can fly into the second level. spring 40 time was in the 4.7 range. He slides sets extends keeps his pad level low. His only real knock is strength. He can be bullrushed but he does have the frame to probaly play comfortable at 315-325 range. Strength and conditioning is the final piece of the staley puzzle.



Thomas is a day 1 starter. Joe needs to add strength to be a starter but he really has the upside. despite his lack of strength he is a good run blocker and he will continue to block throughout the play.

Seers has played 4 positions on that UT line. I think his run blocking is right up there with Jake Long. He has the long arms and has played against tremendous competition. The better the competition the better he plays. Its the basics of the position that he must improve on. Hand usuage, getting off the block a bit quicker. but he makes up for those negatives with extension and good footwork. He is gonna be a good one. Could start at RT needs some time for LT. I love watching this kid play and he is probaly my favorite tackle in this group.

Yeah, Tampa Bay had a tougher schedule than us. Here is a link to the current draft order with strength of schedule:

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.htm

I think the Browns had the 6th toughest schedule in the league, but I may have counted wrong.

Depending on our position and who's available, you gotta do it that way.

Our 2 biggest needs IMO that I would love to see addressed in the first round or 2 would be OL and CB.

so they've currently got the tougher schedule... if we lose to Houston though, that probably changes.

Houston's record would still be below .500 even if they beat us, so I think that means our strength of schedule would drop. Tampa Bay plays Seattle, who is above .500, so there strength of schedule should still be stronger than ours even if Tampa wins and drops Seattle to 8-8, I think. If we lose to the Texans, I think we have the 3 spot locked up. Of course, I may be wrong and someone smarter than me could enlighten me.

Nothing changes. Strength of schedule is based on last seasons records.

web page

Determining Order of Selection
? The team with the lowest winning percentage at the end of the previous season drafts first in the NFL Draft.

? The rest of the teams are placed in order from lowest winning percentage to the highest.

? The Super Bowl winner drafts last, even if they do not have the highest winning percentage.

? The Super Bowl loser drafts next to last.

? Strength of schedule for the previous season is the first tie-breaker for teams with the same winning percentage.

? Divisional and conference records are the next step in the tie-breaking procedure.

? As a last resort, a coin toss is used to determine the order of selection for teams with the same winning percentage.

? If a playoff and non-playoff team end the season with the same winning percentage, the non-playoff team selects before the playoff team regardless of strength of schedule.

You would make a good law clerk. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Whats the pay [censored]? <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

If we lose, that would cause an increase in our SoS as it's dependant upon opponent W/L record... and if the opponent wins, then our schedul eis by default tougher than it was.

Of course, all opponents that we've played this year factor in as well. Hope for a Pittsburgh & Baltimore (or Cinci & Balt.) win. With those two games representing losses in 4 of our games, that will go a good ways toward increasing our SoS if we're hoping for the 4th spot instead of the 3rd.

Here's a quick list of games that could affect our SoS and what needs to happen for our SoS to go up:
Carolina at New Orleans - null
Cleveland at Houston - we need to lose
Jacksonville at Kansas City - K.C. win
Oakland at N.Y. Jets - null
Pittsburgh at Cincinnati - null
Seattle at Tampa Bay - Tampa win
Arizona at San Diego - San Diego win
Atlanta at Philadelphia - Philly win
Buffalo at Baltimore - Balt win
San Francisco at Denver - Denver win

null means that we played and had the same result against both teams in that game, so it has a net effect of nothing. Reverse your rooting for our SoS to go down <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

? Strength of schedule for the previous season is the first tie-breaker for teams with the same winning percentage.

[color:"orange"]thanks ubrowns...saw that in the next thread I opened and after posting that ??? - I've been creaming about Joe Thomas ever since <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL....not much. People do it to gain experience, mostly while in law school. Builds the resume but doesn't do much to pay the bills..

[color:"red"]Nothing changes. Strength of schedule is based on last seasons records.
[color:"orange"]& Saint...
[color:"red"]? Strength of schedule for the previous season is the first tie-breaker for teams with the same winning percentage.

[color:"orange"]You both do realize that "THE PREVIOUS SEASON" of which they speak would be the 06 season which we are in...not the 05 season.

Remember the draft is April 07...when they refer to the "PREVIOUS SEASON" it is the season of which we are still in. So these last two games w/us and Tampa will change that pct. To what degree??? I think not enough to change the results.

JMHGuess about the results...pretty sure on the meaning of Previous Season.

Hehe.. Mea culpa.. still 06 ain't it?

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for clearing that up, I got it now. I was incorrectly assuming they determined opponents win loss % based only on the teams we have played up until this point. Thanks again.

Thats the way I took it too. Previous season is the season we are in now. The draft is next season.

[color:"white"] You both do realize that "THE PREVIOUS SEASON" of which they speak would be the 06 season which we are in...not the 05 season.
[/color]

you are correct. the two high lited "previous" are one and the same.



Determining Order of Selection
? The team with the lowest winning percentage at the end of the previous season drafts first in the NFL Draft.

? The rest of the teams are placed in order from lowest winning percentage to the highest.

? The Super Bowl winner drafts last, even if they do not have the highest winning percentage.

? The Super Bowl loser drafts next to last.

? Strength of schedule for the previous season is the first tie-breaker for teams with the same winning percentage.

? Divisional and conference records are the next step in the tie-breaking procedure.

? As a last resort, a coin toss is used to determine the order of selection for teams with the same winning percentage.

? If a playoff and non-playoff team end the season with the same winning percentage, the non-playoff team selects before the playoff team regardless of strength of schedule.

Why?

We beat ATL maybe, no being a smart guy I really don't know.

You're right, Philly loss... my brain went all "BCS" for a second there and was thinking a Philly win over Atlanta would lessen the value of our win over Atlanta, but I had forgotten that it's straight up strength of schedule as a matter of winning %. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

j/c

I am debating with myself whether Glenn Dorsey the DT from LSU would be a better pick than Branch. He's not as big...6'3" 300 but much higher motor and much better stats this year.