DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What area deserves our 1st pick?

Shoot man....who the heck knows??

Seems to me it is set, but what you say makes perfect sense too.

It could boil down to fractions so we better hope for teams in Tampa's division to lose and teams in ours to win.

Savage has stated many times that the OL can be built on day two of the draft.......not sure if he means that he will not concentrate on the top offensive linemen in the first round! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just hope that we do not go after another QB.............we could use a RB if he is there.........but we need to build the OL and the DL.

I feel that maybe he will change his ways as April approaches all of us.......it just would not bother me to go nothing but OL and DL all the way in the draft, but we just know that will not happen! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I still have faith that he will make this team better.............but how long can a man have faith in the Cleveland Browns! <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

We have a new year approaching all of us............come on RAC...........tell Savage what we need in the draft and make sure he gets it for you man..........we need a winning season! <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

We need a very good offensive line before we can expect a QB to produce...that is a fact! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

HAPPY NEW YEAR BROWNS FANS! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I caculated this out and posted it in another thread but Ill post it here as well.
Based on both Tampa and Cleveland losing sunday.

It all boils down to what Baltimore does.
They win we need 2 of the following things to happen
They lose we need 1 of the following things to happen.

Pick any combination you like.

Loss by any of- San Diego, Denver, Kansas Ciy

Win by any of- Dallas , Chicago

Don't we want the lower strength of schedule? That would mean Tampa's division should win and ours should lose.... That way we'd be the weaker team with the same record...and the higher draft pick....

That could be difficult.... Baltimore is playing for home field advantage and Pittsburgh and Cincy are playing each other. I guess that no matter what, we'd have one win not to worry about...lol.

Shoot.....I am done trying to figure it out. I will just wait for sometime Sunday evening to see where we fall. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Here's something for all of us to consider....

What topic excites us at this time of the year....every year?

The draft and free agency period. <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, look at all the hot topics on the board. It's the same every freaking year. We suck! I don't wanna hear that sarcastic phrase "the sky is falling" again. The sky fell a long time ago and Brown's nation is dark.

Jesus.........wouldn't it be nice to actually talk about the playoffs after September?

Yes it would Vers, yes it would.

Yeah it would be...And it WILL BE SOON...

Do you mind giving these guys a lil' bit of TIME to get the pieces in place...

You're as IMPATIENT as some of the rest... <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Sure....what's another 42 years??

j/c...

if Reggie Bush can run behind the Saints line even w/out a guy named Bentley...

then Peterson can run behind the Browns O-line.. JMO...

take Peterson or we will have another article in 5 years saying how Peterson is a pro bowler and how the Browns passed on him for a guy on the o-line..

[color:"red"] take Peterson or we will have another article in 5 years saying how Peterson is a pro bowler and how the Browns passed on him for a guy on the o-line.. [/color]
What? lol..
U mean take Thomas or we'll have another article next season saying how Thomas is ROTY and how the Browns had a chance to fix their oline and passed for a guy who got hurt in training camp!

While I do not disagree with either of you. I think that Browns fans could leanr a lesson regardless of which one of these we draft and regardless of how they do.

If we draft Thomas and he is a bust, and AP is a beat...all the talk will be about how we should never draft to fill a need.

If we take Peterson and he gets hurt, and Thomas is even an average lineman, everyone will gripe about how we shoudl have adressed the O-line.

While I tend to sway towards the "Big" men, on the feild, passing on LT again would be devastating to the fan base.


Either way I say....draft Branch. <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

I'll take that as "Frustrated Fan" speak...

I really really REALLY hope u understand what's going on here...

I understand what is going on......or at least what they are trying to do.

Next year is the 3rd year.....3 years is enough to show marked improvement. if Savage and crennel can't show something in that period of time, dump them.

I just marked April 28th and March 2nd on my calendar.

It's going to be a long winter.

Seriously, I hate to miss out on Branch... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

One of the problems with drafting soooo high with soooo many problems is having to choose the one area to fix. Last year Savage tried to fix the OL in FA, and the Defense in the draft by drafting Linebackers....

Fortunately we picked at 12 and all the hard decisions were made by teams ahead of us, though Savage did say that if Denver hadn't moved up to get Cutler at 11, he would have taken him...Hmmmm...so much for the trade with Baltimore...hehe.

Picking in the top 5 gives me a headache....

Is David Klinger or Akili Smith available...??? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have to agree with Peen, here. If the FO can't get us to 8-8, at a minimum, by year 3 (next season) then they need to be shown the door. Normally, I am not an impatient person. But I honestly can't say I have seen any improvement in this team except for Wimbley's play. And that just doesn't cut it for me.

I realize continuity is what good teams strive for. But the continuity has to be in a positive direction. I'm not seeing all that much positive movement in the last 3 years. If I don't see some in 2007 then somebody's head needs to roll.

[color:"orange"] BpG Dawg there's no guarantee any player we select is going to pan out..U hope they do ..that said the biggest need on this team is blocking, and tackling..being able to run the ball effectively and stopping the run..being at 3 or 4 usually means the BEST LINEMEN is there ..and U take him don't look back ..while it is a need pick for us..he's just as highly rated as the skill guys who are going to be there.
I like Peterson..but if Phil passes on Thomas to take the RB..he just doomed the team.. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Now U can say well he can still fix the line but here's where it gets complex..he would then need to address it in the second round..so what position is going to deliver the better player?
The next best OT or the best / next best OG?

Now if Thomas is gone when we select Opie doesn't have a choice then..he has to take the BPA with his first pick or try and trade down...that would be my preference..trade down..
But we need young athletic offensive linemen..period..
Your comment on passing on another LT is interesting because LT wasn't on anyones mind in 01..

I remember them shooting him down because of his size and where he played..(idiots) but the bigger problem wasn't LT it was Botch demanding they select Warren over Seymour..that was the problem..the team could live with not having LT , had Botch taken Seymour...the BETTER player.

So I'd rather Phil fix the weakest areas and get some linemen..early..

[/color]

That be pretty accurate...

U just might not see it in the W/L category...

U get this FA & Draft...U see an emerging team coming together...

U get another FA & Draft...And BOOM...U have a playoff contender...

U get another and BOOM BOOM...U have FO and Coaches being signed to extensions and u have a PERENNIAL WINNER...

It's ONE area I agree with Vers on...U WILL NEVER SEE A CONSISTENT WINNER IF U KEEP HIRING AND FIRING HC & FO PERSONNEL EVERY TWO AND THREE YEARS IN THIS LEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We load up for a 3-4 D and fire Savage & Crennel 3 years into it and this is what will happen...DEFENSIVELY...

Fraser/McKinley and the likes can't hold the LOS in a 3-4...They will get BLOWN away in a 4-3...Wipe the DL across the board and START OVER YET AGAIN...DUMB DUMB DUMB...VERY DUMB when u have 2 guys who actually KNOW A 3-4 D and how to build it...

Then u gotta deal with Andra Davis...One of the WEAKEST ASS 4-3 MLB to come along in years...Wali Rainer???...Damn near CLONES...

Talk all u want...Savage KNOWS what's wrong here...And it won't all be thrown to UNFORTUNATE INJURIES...

Some of u guys think these 2 are flat out STUPID... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

See how they approach this thing...I'd bet we see an INFLUX of

DL AT LEAST 2
OL AT LEAST 2
OLB AT LEAST 1
CB MAYBE 1
RB MAYBE 1

THIS is the year IMO that will DEFINE where we go the next FIVE...

Enjoy the Ride...Cause we're gonna be a SOLID football team REAL SOON...

Some act like we'll go hit up some street slickers for Wide-Outs and Running Backs and Tight Ends and say "We had a great off season"...

[censored] I SAY...[censored]!!!!!!!!!

Let this thing play out...

<img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

What's "really" going on here is absolutely no measurable improvement on the field ..... and a lot of (fading) hope by fans off the field. We are, after 15 games, ranked 31st in total offense .... and total defense. LOL That's really something, isn't it? <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> At least we're consistent. We still can't run or pass. We still can't stop the run or the pass.

There are some decent pieces on this team .... but we've had pieces in the past. BFD. Results matter. Our results suck.

If next year isn't .500 at the very least, we'll watch yet another tear down ...... another reboot ... and another couple of years of excuses.

I. for one, am damn tired of excuses.

[color:"red"]Wipe the DL across the board and START OVER YET AGAIN [/color]
Thats going to happen anyway <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But in phases..I see a true NT coming in next year to work behind Ted..and some of the weaker DE's being released..

Opie loves LB's so we can see another OLB brought in..
I'm curious how they view Leon Williams now.
Is he progressing enough to push Davis?
Or does Rac like the thought of putting him on the outside , perhaps to fill in for McGinest? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Just thinking...anyway it's best to give Opie/Rac the time they need to fix it and yes this is the defining offseason ...
While the FA period is going to be scrutinized..this draft (althought not deep as we might like) is pivital...

I agree with that.

But...you will never see a consistent winner if you keep throwing the same losers out there year after year either.

3 years is enough. This was the year I said we could show improvement and not have it reflect in the record.

Next season....it's all about the record.

If they can't win 5of 8 at home and at least 2-3 on the road, we couldn't can them fast enough for me.

I don't care what anybody says.

attack, I see both of these situations as a total bust, and the reason why I love phil savage. Phil isn't going to draft a lazy buttt like Warren.

The difference between Seymour, LT, and Warren?

Work Ethic, I knew Lt was going to be something special when I read an article about how he approached Emmit Smith, and asked Emmit..."how do you keep your body healty and stay away from injuries". I knew right then, that this kid was working hard...very hard, and he was going to take EVERY SINGLE step to make sure an injury didn't ruin that for him.

Granted, injuries are part of the game, but prevention is half the battle.

My point is, the Browns need more "Huslte" stars like WImbley. I love our hustle players (Andra, JJ, hank Fraley) but we need hustle stars like wimbley.

Not matter who Phil takes, Thomas, Peterson, or Branch....I want to work ethic, and the only player I can think of that we drafted that had that work ethic was Courtney Brown. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> But the guy just can't handle the big guys in the NFL.

I however TOTALLY agree with you, it all starts up front. No matter what side it is, we need Linemen...PERIOD! The reason I say Branch is because we need to do something well, and we started on defense, and Defense wins championships. Laso with the fact that if Thomas is there, and we take peterson, not a single Browns fan will be happy. I said before in another thread, we need to build both lines, and ride the Rueben Droughns train until the wheels fall off.

JMHO

If our offense is inept for the next 3 years I won't care...if we can win on defense like the bears and ravens, or even hold good teams to less than 21 points.

Alan Branch??? Joe Thomas??

We are pimping guys who are merely the best prospects in positions of need. It doesnt mean they are great players.

I dont think JT would rank higher than Marcus McNeil did last year, if they were in the same class, and I am not sure Alan Branch has surfaced since the OSU game. How did Alan Branch do in 2002-2004??

These guys are both good players but neither is a number # 3 Draft Pick.

We are in such horrible shape it isnt funny. Our young guys may already be old guys by the time this team is built.

Take our RB in 2008 and if we get a chance at one of the Top QB's this year (assuming Russel leaves early) we take it. We have many high picks coming in the next 3 drafts. Joe Thomas and Alan Branch will not be BPA at the time we pick nor will they drmatically impact this team. We are hardly in a position to draft need at 3.

Both of them would be a reach.

However if CJ falls in our lap and we can pull some deals i would be cool with that.

[color:"red"] Phil isn't going to draft a lazy buttt like Warren.

[/color]

No he isn't and thats why those type won't last here .

[color:"red"] The reason I say Branch is because we need to do something well, and we started on defense, and Defense wins championships. Laso with the fact that if Thomas is there, and we take peterson, not a single Browns fan will be happy [/color]
No very few would happy with Phil and I'll have that same view of him as I do other GM's who are soon replaced..
I'll say even though I'm a defensive guy..if a priemer OT is there , take him..get it done..
You can then turn your attention to the D a few rounds later..you can find a RB anytime..a WR anytime..but a elite linemen ?
I like Peterson(I'm a Sooners fan) but the OT is what we NEED!

WE GOTTA GET THAT GUY!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Edwards isn't exactly the model for work ethic.


Point is you just don't know who is going to get the big head.

I agree, but I am sure the Combine will change everything. For all we know right no we could be talking Thomas in round two by then. hehe

I am still wondering who the "The real deal Marcus Mcneil" pimp was last year on DTMB. Guys like that don't fall into your lap (chargers) very often, and the results speak for themself. It's funny, LT was a "good back" last year, they get him a solid tackle in the draft and now he is "the gretest back to ever put on a uniform".NOT a coicidence.

I dunno Peen, day ONE Braylon was complaining about Miami not taking him. That should have been a warning sign of things to come. Especially in this losing organization.

HERE'S the thing that kinda bugs me..and yes I'm going back to Warren..the knock was that he was lazy and took plays off..we saw him take entire games off..but Botch ignored that and took him..

Edwards knock at Michigan was that he ran bad routes and dropped easy catches(see Quincy Morgan)..work ethic in question..attitude problems with the coach..
But he made big plays..thats what propelled him..plus size and speed..
I didn't want a WR with that pick but Phil had him as the BPA on the board..many so-called experts debated he might have been the best player in the top 20 ... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

BpG...

I was not the Real Deal Pimp...

However, I was surprised that we passed as I thought the second rated LT in the draft was a great grab especially considering our declining RT play, but not really that surprised considering Schaeffer. DJ seems to have been a good pick.

I am not sure Joe Thomas would have ranked ahead of Marcus McNeil last year. Not exactly a strong draft for getting your LT. Not to mention the cap hit of carrying 2 LT salaries one drafted in the #3 slot <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

The same can be said of Warren. He wasn't just some guy BD picked....he was rated as a top talent...it's not like we just picked him out of left field.

If the warning signs that are used to blame BD and his drafting of Warren, the same holds for Phil and his drafting of Braby.

My position is neither guy made a bad pick as far as the then and there....actually, BD's selection of Warren was a better pick....but neither worked out quite as they had hoped.

Good one peen.

I don't really agree with you at all on Thomas. Thomas is an elite left tackle prospect in any year. If he had come out last year he was projected as a Top 10-15 pick. ESPN's Scouts Inc. currenlty have Thomas listed as the top overall player in the draft, and here is a link to their list:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/index

And nfldraftcountdown.com says this about Thomas:


Thomas is the real deal.

I kind of agree with you on Branch, although you usually don't have a lot of hype about sophomore defensive tackles, so that is understandable. Plus, his impact isn't always measured in stats. He has been a pretty bog name all year, and that same Scouts Inc link from above has Branch rated as the number 4 prospect in the draft.

Overall, I think both Branch and Thomas are legit top prospects who could greatly help the Browns. It is just fortunate for us that they also happen to help our two biggest weaknesses. JMHO.

Several comments:

1. I see a lot of posts I agree with.. I agree and I echo YTown's sentiments that I am fed up and tired of incompetence with the players and the FO. I want to see some progress. 1 more game a season makes and to be honest.. the first season is a honeymoon, the 2nd season is kid gloves and the 3rd RAC my boy.. I'm going to be Cleveland critical. Honeymoon is over. I want results, I know he had injuries etc.. but it has to work this time.

2. The second that the Texans game is over.. Purp needs to be scampering and set up the Draft / FA forum, cause thats where da action gonna be boy.

3. It's gonna be a long winter and I'm going to be impatient for CapitalGG's Draft Party.

Thomas would have been a top 10, now lower than 15 pick if he came out last year. 2nd Tackle behind Brick. I remember watching the Wisc game on New Years day and cringing when he went down. This was before FA, and he was on my radar. He would have been rated above McNiell.

The statement that adding McNiell made LT the best back.. is total bull. Look at LT's history and tell me that he has not been a consistent performer, despite some crappy OL's (before 2004).

I thought the Chargers did well with McNiell, he was on the radio before the draft here, and after as well. He is verying engaging and interesting. He has repeated stated that the misinformation about his back was amazing. He was even more upset that some scouts had him with a "basketweaving major" when he recieved his degree in mechanical engineering.

The Chargers have had solid line play from McNiell, Malumaluma, and Dielman. Note that Dielman is a FA at the end of the year, and I can't understand why he has not been resigned.

That's not what I said, I simply said adding a solid left tackle elevated him from a very good back to this ridiculous run he is on now. I never said Marcus Mcneil made LT the back he is. I am just saying that his huse spike in touchdowns from last season cannot be a coincidence.

I mean come on, 18 td's to 28!! and Mcneil had nothing to do with it?


10
14
13
17
18
...........28!!! How is that consistent?

Like i said, he isn't "The" reason, but addind Mcneil didn't hurt.

[color:"red"]He has repeated stated that the misinformation about his back was amazing. [/color]
It's why he dropped like he did..it started out as him having back problems, then blow up he had a spinal condition..
Amazing how a lot of people here bought it also..but I never saw anything that proved it was correct.

GM's and organizations love to try and plant the poison seed to get the guys they want. Matt Millen swindled us out of a 2nd round pick to move up one spot!!!

The draft is shady my freinds. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would have to say that Gaines Adams kid from Clemson, if he isn't taken before we can make a move.. Kid has skills and desire...