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When scouts use terms like "the ball jumps from his hands." That is not Tua.

I have not watched much of him so I can not say with conviction what he really is. The whole situation in Miami makes the Browns look like honor role.

The owner tanked games. He fired a head coach for dubious reasons. They were courting Watson and saying "atta boy" to Tua.

Then the owner reacts to Tyreek Hill like a kid chasing soap bubbles.

IMO Miami is headed for the cellar.

Tua is a good athlete. He has mobilty. He can not deliver accurate throws from the pocket downfield. He looks like a college quarterback to me.

I don't have a thing against the guy. I just do not see a NFL starter.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
They were courting Watson and saying "atta boy" to Tua.

That part sounds familiar.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Number 1... Aaron Rodgers, he's in his prime and I use to tape his games since he was a sophmore in college. Thought he was technically the perfect QB. Maybe the biggest mistake we made in the draft. I'm so glad we took WR Edwards rolleyes

#2 Brady...getting up there in age and has lost a step now he's slow...wait he's always been slow...lol still his prime is gone time will catch up to him when he gets hit and pees red.

#3 Mahomes but we will see how much of that is Hill and Kelce has to be getting a bit old turning the corner of prime.

I will stop there. A lot of good ones the kid on the Chargers but I just haven't seen enough of him to put him up with the elites.

But what I hear is he is the best of the youngsters.

jmho


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

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J/c

Late to this topic, but I agree with the idea of “guys who can win” and “guys who you can win with” and “guys you can win in spite of”

Watson is probably between the first two categories for me, trending towards that top tier.

I’d probably rather have Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Rodgers. Brady is just so old that he’s almost in his own category. Burrow is still young, but certainly trending to that elite level.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I don't worry too much about rankings. Part of that is the team around the QB. Stafford is a good example. With the Linons he looked good but wasn't considered all that good by those ranking players. With the Rams he was good enough to win a SB.

Watson looks to be a clear upgrade over Baker. Where that ranks him I don't really care. I have a feeling he ranks high enough that we should have every chance we need to win a SB, at least from a QB standpoint.

That doesn't mean we will. We still need him to play well, as well as the other players on the team. If everybody else does their part, Watson will rank high enough.

Also, to me it isn't so much about the plays a QB makes. It's about the bad plays they don't make.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I don't worry too much about rankings. Part of that is the team around the QB. Stafford is a good example. With the Linons he looked good but wasn't considered all that good by those ranking players. With the Rams he was good enough to win a SB.

Watson looks to be a clear upgrade over Baker. Where that ranks him I don't really care. I have a feeling he ranks high enough that we should have every chance we need to win a SB, at least from a QB standpoint.

That doesn't mean we will. We still need him to play well, as well as the other players on the team. If everybody else does their part, Watson will rank high enough.

Also, to me it isn't so much about the plays a QB makes. It's about the bad plays they don't make.


Peen, I started the thread to generate some football talk and I thought it might be fun rather than all the annoying bickering that dominates things around here.

I hear you about Stafford and Lions, but would like to point out how the Rams could not get it done w/a former overall #1 pick in Goff and then won it all when they changed QBs. Furthermore, TB was 7 and 9 w/one qb and then brought. in Brady and won the Super Bowl the very next year. QBs who can elevate others are huge!!!

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Disclaimer: I'm quoting Peen below...but am not critiquing nor debating his point...NRTU style without the j/c.

Originally Posted by Ballpeen
...We still need him to play well, as well as the other players on the team. If everybody else does their part, Watson will rank high enough.

Some would say that means that everything must be perfect for him to be successful. A phrase I've called BS on numerous times. But any/every QB needs players around him to help the team succeed. DPJ as your #1 is far from being considered "HELP"...and I really like the guy.

My on-field concern for our QB is that we have (1) legit NFL WR and a big 'ole helping of potential at TE. We have a LT who looks more and more like a RT and a RT coming off of two serious injuries. If Cooper misses a game or three or one of the OTs gets dinged, we will be in instant distress.

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Receiver depth is a concern.

I have heard that the Browns like Jamarcus Bradley. DPJ has shown consistent improvement.

Schwartz is an unknown for now. He will be expected to contribute more. He is a guy that should be paid attention to early on in workouts and Camp. Part of the reason he was drafted in the third was his intelligence.

I would like to see another veteran. I don't think Jarvis is in play. I don't think he will play for what the Browns want to pay him.

I am positive we will dip into the draft for guys but that is never a sure thing.

Will Fuller makes some sense because he played with Watson.

There could be veteran guys that will be cut. I don't think we need a star receiver. I think we need a savy vet like Jarvis.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Peen, I started the thread to generate some football talk and I thought it might be fun rather than all the annoying bickering that dominates things around here.

For the love of God, just say what you have to say.

Quote
I hear you about Stafford and Lions, but would like to point out how the Rams could not get it done w/a former overall #1 pick in Goff and then won it all when they changed QBs. Furthermore, TB was 7 and 9 w/one qb and then brought. in Brady and won the Super Bowl the very next year. QBs who can elevate others are huge!!!

Stafford didn't elevate a darn thing his entire career in DET with that perennially sad-sack roster. How much elevating do you really have to do with Kupp, Jefferson, a cancer-free OBJ at #3WR, Higbee and Aaron Donald leading a top 5 defense? Goff couldn't get it done with THAT team around him. Goff being a former #1 is as meaningless as Baker being a former #1.

Brady is a completely different animal. But...when he went to TB they had a dominant defense...AND...Evans, Godwin, and a not-yet-off-the-rocker A Brown...with Gronk. J Winston - also a 1st overall pick - also couldn't get it done with THAT roster.

Stafford > Goff....Brady > Winston...but neither of those guys were charged with making chicken salad out of chicken droppings.

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There are reasons why teams are willing to give up a ton of assets for an elite qb. The Rams, Broncos, and Browns gave up a tremendous haul to acquire elite qbs. Of course, all qbs are dependent on the talent around them, but the elite qbs can overcome things that average to below average qbs can not. Look at Watson for example. The guy has all these court cases looming in his future. Multiple teams were willing to offer the farm for the guy despite the civil cases and the negative attention that accompanies signing him.

On the other hand, you have a qb like Baker and teams don't want to trade for him even though he is not making nearly as much money as the top qbs. I realize that Baker's personality and there are questions about what kind of a teammate plays into that, but your value is what the market says it is. All the wind-blowing coming out of the mouths of Baker apologists isn't going to change that fact.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I don't worry too much about rankings. Part of that is the team around the QB. Stafford is a good example. With the Linons he looked good but wasn't considered all that good by those ranking players. With the Rams he was good enough to win a SB.

Watson looks to be a clear upgrade over Baker. Where that ranks him I don't really care. I have a feeling he ranks high enough that we should have every chance we need to win a SB, at least from a QB standpoint.

That doesn't mean we will. We still need him to play well, as well as the other players on the team. If everybody else does their part, Watson will rank high enough.

Also, to me it isn't so much about the plays a QB makes. It's about the bad plays they don't make.


Peen, I started the thread to generate some football talk and I thought it might be fun rather than all the annoying bickering that dominates things around here.

I hear you about Stafford and Lions, but would like to point out how the Rams could not get it done w/a former overall #1 pick in Goff and then won it all when they changed QBs. Furthermore, TB was 7 and 9 w/one qb and then brought. in Brady and won the Super Bowl the very next year. QBs who can elevate others are huge!!!


I understand and wasn't trying to put the thread down. Most of the time I no longer feel like typing out all of my thoughts in detail and just sort of skipped to the summation.


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I figured that. Just making sure. We're good.

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I don't know I think a case could be made that Stafford raised the level of his receivers. The following had their best years in Detroit under Stafford (minimum 100 receptions)

Eric Ebron
Joique Bell
Nate Burleson (best years early in Minny...went to Seattle with Russell but then did much better in Detroit with Stafford)
Golden Tate
Marvin Jones
Kenny Golloday
you might even throw in Theo Riddick (almost no playing time after Detroit tho)

Is this definitive proof. No...but it is something to consider...As these guys werem't huge stars but were able to get deals later or do better in Detroit with Stafford...Tons of other parts of the equation to consider..but did want to throw this out there...

Not going to say Calvin Johnson because he makes QB 's look better ...not the other way around...LOL


I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...

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I started this thread back in April. I ranked many QBs. I started off w/the top tier and then the second tier. In no certain order, I had Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Brady, Burrow, Herbert, and Watson in the tip-tier of all QBs. That's seven.

In the next tier, I put Stafford, Wilson, Lamar and Carr. If I would have been just doing a top 10, I would have omitted Carr.


ESPN's Jeremy Fowler just polled a group of more than 50 people around the NFL, including players, coaches, executives and scouts to compile a list of the league's top 10 QBs. Here is the list:

1. Rodgers
2. Mahomes
3. Allen
4. Brady
5. Burrow
6. Stafford
7. Herbert
8. R. Wilson
9. Watson
10. Dak

Apparently, DAK beat out Lamar in a tie-breaker.

My top 7 was close to theirs. They put Stafford in the top 7 instead of Watson. The only other change is that they have DAK ahead of Lamar. Right now, it seems that the Lamar omission is the biggest controversy.

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Thinking about this a bit more, I don't see how Dak can be ranked ahead of Lamar. Dak is up there. Top 12. Maybe top 11, but Lamar has done more and is more important to his team.

Also, while Stafford won the Super Bowl, he throws a lot of pics. Not sure he belongs at 6. I'd put him in the top 10 for sure, but not 6th. I kinda get Watson at 9 because he didn't play last year and there are questions about this upcoming year. I'd put him in the top 7 if he sees the field.

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At some point I believe age is a factor.

Brady kind of stands alone because of what he has done. He retired and then decided to play this year. How will he play? I don't know.

Russell Wilson is with a new team. I think he is a great player but this season. Not real sure about how he will do.

If this about ability today and all other factors are not in play.

I would have DW number five. IMO he is better than Herbert, Burrow and Stafford. As a total package yes I think DW is better than those guys.

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QBs are so hard to rank. Everyone criteria and paRameses
Are so different and valid to their liking

I'm going to go on the basis of upside, which way their
Ability to improve is trending and what they done from recent
Years

1.Tom Brady
2. Joe Burrow
3. Josh Allen
4. Justin Herbert
5. Patrick Mahomes
6. Matt Stafford
7. Aaron Rogers
8. Lamar Jackson
9. Dak Prescott
10. DeShawn Watson

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Watson took over the #1 creeper spot now that Big Ben has retired.


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1.Baker Mayfield
2.Baker Mayfield
3.Baker Mayfield
4.Baker Mayfield
5.Baker Mayfield

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Watson 1win 2 losses in the playoffs
Is every QB elite?

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I feel like I need to say it is important for people to tell the truth and to bear true witness, not false witness.
It is important to tell the truth to not tell lies.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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In this 3 vs 6 matchup of Kyler Murray vs. Steelers Quarterback: well I took 2 random games in my mind.
3C, Kyler Murray, Ariz
6C, Steelers QB situation.

Kyler Murray Ariz, week ten 2020.
Steelers Week 4, 2020. Now, right away after checking, I realized the steelrs cheated, but they often do, as Ben was the Qb and Ben is now retired. I had no idea about these games.

Arizona played the Bills in what was 'billed Nov. sixteenth 2020 as a game that put Kyler Murray into the top i0 of Qb's it was the Hail Murray game, a real emotion lifter, as the Cards beat the bills 32-30 in the final seconds.
Kyler Murray ran for a Td, Ran for 2 tds on the day and threw for one. So this should be a cakewalk to move Kyler Murray into the 2nd round of Quarterbacks final 4, but.

Week 4 2020 of the Steelers just happened to be a little game which was postponed from October 4th ish until October 25th ish and the Steelrs won, and became 6-0 over the Titans who had a winning record. This was another big win.
This is going to come down to coin flips, Kyler Murray vs. Steeler Quarterback.
Pre coin flip stipulations, this is favored to Murray (because of the emotion, and the ints. and the more meaningful of two very meaningful games,) so, steelrs must win flip one, and get 2 consecutive first, and if it's a tie at the end Ariz wins. prior to the first flip it is decided that for the first 3 flips the steelrs will be heads, az tails,
(Decided by the steelers are head thinkers, and AZ St U. has tails, the 2nd same call as the first, a random blue color decided whether the 3rd or 4th heads or tails call would be inverted and since it was the 4th there was no need for another.)
and the final flip, steelers tails, AZ heads. then the coin flip, with the first coin.
I. heads, pit is still alive.
2. heads, pit got 2 consecutive first,
flip 3. tails, that is Arizonas' win.
flip 4, heads, that is Arizonas' win. At the end there is a tie, which means Kyler Murray beats out Steelers Qb in this first round 3. vs. 6 matchup. Kyler Murray needs another Hail Murray to get into the 2nd round.
( There was little doubt as in that game that day Roethlisburger had 2 tds but 3 ints. vs the titans. 32-49 268 2 tds, 3 ints.)
Murray had the hail murray, perhaps his most storied game, against the bills.
( I figure it's as reasonable a way as any to rank Quarterbacks. )


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Someone tried to post a link to a (paid) Athletic Article the other day that ranked NFL QB's in Tiers.

Watson was 9th - in Tier 2. Some comments from league GM, Scouts, Coaches etc: One couldn't believe the Browns gave that contract to a tier 2 guy. One couldn't believe the Browns wanted him with all the allegations and uncertainty. One said he's a #1 - legit and you can put the game on him. One said it won't be hard to put Watson back in Tier 1 once he starts playing.

Baker was 19th - in tier 3 behind Cousins, Garoppolo, Tannehill and Mac Jones .... One said he won't turn up and said he won't become a Tier 2. One said he's a tier 3 with upside. One said he needs to be humble if his career is to be extended. One said there is something missing and (incorrectly) stated no players voiced support for Baker. One said the team has to be perfect for him to win.

Based on the play on the field I think Watson will be better than 9th. Hard to adjust or factor in the off the field things when you are talking about ability/ranking.

Of all the QB rankings the two that stood out to me as flat wrong:

Mac Jones at 18. I don't think he is very good and rank a few of the QB's below him as better than him.

Mitch Tribisky is listed as the 33rd ranked QB and the highest rated Steeler QB. I think with a stable environment and good coaching, Mitch will be several spots higher - although clearly we'd all love it if he was indeed the worst starter in the NFL.

Last edited by mgh888; 07/28/22 04:04 AM.

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J/C


It's all just people putting out rankings. Take it for what it is worth, and it isn't worth much.

After the first 4-5 guys, you could rank players any which way and it wouldn't really matter. I just rank players as good enough or not good enough. You might have a few guys in the maybe area, but the odds say they probably aren't.

I will say this is for players who have played and have been in the league for 2-3 years. You have to have some sort of sample size.


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I think most of the rankings put out by the respected sites are fairly consistent. PFF, The Athletic, Fowler's ESPN list that polls players, coaches, and executives are three good sources. I tried to post the Athletic's rankings the other day and for some reason it would not show up on the board. I can't figure out why. Maybe it was too long???

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