DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Season

Turnovers can certainly be an X factor. It’s an equalizer for teams that aren’t good offensively (which will be us).

We’re going to have to hold teams under 17 points

We averaged 20.5 points per game last year. Do you really think we are going to have worse qb play this year than we had last year? I'm not saying that Brissett is a better qb, but I bet he throws fewer picks and takes fewer needless sacks.

Not with Brissett at QB they didn't.

One would hope that a 100% healthy QB would perform better than one injured for 14 games. But I know leaving that part out is convenient. In 2020 we averaged 26.3 ppg. You know, with a healthy QB. That made the Browns ranked 13th in points scored per game in the NFL.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game?date=2021-02-08

BTW- Houston ranked 18th in 2020 with an average of 24 ppg.

Fixed it for you. But I've mentioned before - the injury has become a myth omitted from most posters comments talking about his performance in 2021. Certainly the one poster who talks about Baker more than ANY other poster, never mentions the injury - other than to claim that it didn't impact Baker's ability to throw or impact his performance last year (Maybe he has an advanced medical degree also?)

Please bear in mind the Browns are facing different defenses
This season coming up.
Yeah the offense averaged 20 pts a game last year. But there
Wasn't a whole lot of big time monster defenses
This offense had to face on Sundays last season. it faces a healthy Ravens defense. The Chargers are improved with the addition of Mack.
The Bills have as many playmakers on defense
As the Browns. The Bucs are solid defensively.
So in essence the Browns offense isn't a automatic
20 pts a game this year. It's simply facing better defenses
This year.

I'm going to go back and do the math eventually, but I'm slammed @ work today. My question is... how much ded the healthy Baker games push that average up? For the sake of argument, we should remove those first couple games because Baker was healthy and, IIRC, we put up a ton of points.

You could well be right, but that also may not matter.
When I look at his career numbers, what I see is a QB that is either decent-ish, or trash. Even if he never throws all that many INT's, he also is very prone to being completely ineffectual with the ball. The common thread is that when he is allowed to scramble a little, he has better numbers. The seasons of his that you look at where his rushing numbers are low, his rating drops to the 30-50 range. Basically, if defenses stop his scrambling and keep him in the pocket, life gets difficult for him..... so, we might well be looking at exactly what we had last year, or worse, since even with as much as you hate Baker, he IS a better QB and playmaker than Brisset.

Time will tell, but I don't think defenses are going to fret too much over our passing game (particularly our WRs), and they will, same as last year, focus on stopping Chubb and keeping the QB in the pocket until/unless we're able to force them out of that.... and I don't know that we'll be able to.

And I fully accept that. But it doesn't mean I can't mention or talk about him. Or does that not sit well with you for some reason? Are we so worried about the new guy that talking about the last guy is taboo? gmab.

Hang on - are we saying "excuses" for how the team and players perform are now all of a sudden acceptable? Kewl. For the last 4 years that hasn't been the case and any mitigating factors discussed have been roundly chastised and shouted down by a few of y'all.

We've also never lost a game with Brissett at QB.

J/c

If Brissett is better than Baker last year we’ll take it. I also expect our playbook to be tightened up with him

The Bengals started Brandon Allen in the 2nd Meeting
They were resting their key players cause of their playoff berth.
What does beating the Bengals mean if you miss the playoffs

It means NOTHING. But it FEELS GOOD.

To think, you brag about being educated. It would appear that there's a lot more support on my side than the unmoral majority that you are president of.

I don't know, but I think we scored around 30 pts each game. My point was that we had an injured Baker, Keenum, and Mullen at qb for the entire year. Overall, the qb play was terrible and we still averaged more than 17 pts per game. I don't expect us to be a high-scoring team, but I do expect that we will average more than 17 pts a game.

I also think we will have fewer interceptions and sacks this upcoming year. Obviously, interceptions hurt the defense due to the other team getting more offensive possessions and sacks put the offense behind the chains which often leads to more three and outs and shorter time of possession. I don't expect us to be legitimate challengers for a deep playoff run, but I am not sure if I buy all the doom and gloom either. I expect a record that is similar to last year's record. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.


One more note about beating Cinci twice. Not only did Cinci rest most of their starters in the final game of the year, it was also the game that Baker chose to sit out and Keenum was the qb.

The "what if" game can be played many ways- what if Baker hadn't decided to be a tackling dummy- maybe he'd still be our QB. We beat Super Bowl team twice. Another "what if"- York as kicker MAYBE we'd won SEVERAL more games-- GO Browns!!!

Not that it matters but I do find it interesting that the Browns are rated between 14th and 16th in almost all fantasy leagues and are hit and miss on being drafted.

Fantasy Scoring for defenses and special teams:
Sack 1 pt
Interception 2 pts
Fumble Recovery 2 pts
Scored Touchdown 6 pts
Safety 2 pts
Block Kick 2 pts
Kickoff and Punt Return Touchdowns 6 pts
Points Allowed 0 points 10 pts
Points Allowed 1-6 points 7 pts
Points Allowed 7-13 points 4 pts
Points Allowed 14-20 points 1 pts
Points Allowed 21-27 points 0 pts
Points Allowed 28-34 points -1 pts
Points Allowed 35+ points -4 pts
Extra Point Returned 2 pts

Kinda funny that a lot of the things we need the Browns defense to accomplish this season is used in fantasy scoring.

I suspect that the millions of fantasy players think the Browns have to do a whole lot of improvement to make it a top 5 defense. Just something to chew on................

Top 5 Defenses:
1. Buffalo
2. LA Rams
3. Tampa Bay
4. Indianapolis
5. San Francisco

This is a joke, right?

It's really tough to predict anything w/out seeing how Brissett plays.

And how the defense plays and if Stefanski can outcoach/outscheme the other team.

I think our defense has some history that we can use to help prognosticate. And I am on record as saying that Stefanski is very good at scheming and he is a cool customer during games. I just haven't seen how JB will look in this offense and I haven't seen enough of him over the years to make a solid evaluation.

The Browns averaged 20.5 pts per game in 2021 and allowed 21.8 pts per game.

If you take out the first 2 games before Mayfield was injured:

The Browns averaged 19.3 pts per game in the other 15 games in 2021 and allowed 21.1 pts per game.

Just an FYI, the first 2 games the Browns averaged 30 pts per game and allowed 27 pts per game for a 1-1 record. Basically a 10.7 reduction in points per game in 2021 from preinjury Mayfield and post injury Mayfield.

NFL Scoring Avg First Two Games 2021
1. Tampa Bay (2-0) 39.5
2. Arizona (2-0) 36.0
3. Kansas City (1-1) 34.0
4. Baltimore (1-1) 31.5
5. LA Rams (2-0) 30.5
6. Cleveland (1-1) 30.0

Purely coincidental - as is the 25% completion % difference pre and post injury .... I'm sure you are aware, the injury didn't impact Baker's performance.

I'm fully aware of the conspiracy on this forum. To take it a little further, in 2020 the Browns averaged 25.5 points per game and allowed 26.2 on their way to that 11-5 record but it was the defense that carried the team that year too.

With the stacked AFC, it would appear that averaging less than 25 pts per game will result in a losing record in 2022. Of the 18 NFL teams with winning records, only 4 or 22% (Las Vegas 22, New Orleans 21.4, Pittsburgh 20.1 and Miami 20.1) averaged less than 25 pts per game in 2021. However, only one team - Philadelphia - made the playoffs having 8 or more losses in 2021. In the AFC, that number was more than 7 losses eliminated your team.

Except for a possible outlier, it would appear that averaging over 25 points per game with 10 or more wins would be the bare minimum to make the playoffs in 2022. Two more weeks until the footballs start flying all over every stadium in the country.

In our (3) pre-season games...my eye saw a Browns team that was not prepared or disciplined. I still think Ski is learning 'on the fly'. That play-sheet he has in his face has "over-thinking" written all over it.

We looked like a team implementing new systems on O & D vs the Bears in the first half.

Jacoby should have played a lot more than only the 1st half of the last pre-season game.

A prediction for the Monday after the opening win: Myles got winded there in the 2nd half and the young guys stepped up to hold the line for us.

You have to play football to get in "football" shape. Did Chub or Hunt get a carry in pre-season?

I have not seen much of the Preseason - however I hope this is just a case of playing vanilla, preseason football. Not giving anything away and protecting the players ... I agree that the Pre-season training camp and games (camp cupcake) - KS might be too "safe" and have too little contact and reps to prepare players to be ready game 1 - but it's a long season and I haven't yet made up my mind whether the soft start ends up creating more injuries in season, whether it helps prevent injuries, or whether it simply doesn't matter and injuries during the season are completely random or tied to other factors more so than how hard they go at it in the build up.

I'm with you on that...I just see other teams committing fewer stupid penalties and looking like they are on the same page and with an actual plan on what they want to do. I don't get that feeling with the Browns.

We had a penalty on a kickoff (we were kicking) before the ball hit the ground and yet-another procedure penalty with two guys in motion at the same time. We look like a new team with new coaches and new game-plans...with the exception of OL personnel.

Penalties is a bad trend. The weird thing is in Stefanski’s first season (with a rookie QB) we were near the top of the NFL in fewest penalties. It’s gone the complete other direction since then.

If I recall correctly, we were heavily penalized last year as well.

I don't know what the Browns do in practice besides take a bunch of mental reps and shoot hoops.

I literally have no idea what Stefanski's strengths are. If someone could list them I'd appreciate it.

A lot of penalties last night, but we only had 27 yds in penalties last week despite playing w/so many young players.

I've already listed them, but to address last year's penalties. We committed the 7th most penalties in the league. Four playoff teams and one that could have been had their dumb coach blown it by not accepting a tie in the last game of the year were ahead of us. Dallas, Las Vegas, Arizona, and Buffalo had more than us and all made the playoffs. The Chargers were the team w/the dumb HC and they also had more than us.

If we win 6 of our first 11 games I'll be shocked.


We look like a 5-12 team that could easily end up an 8-9 team by the end of the season.

Penalties happen to every team...but what I see way to much with us are stupid procedure penalties...all damn year long. Holding is kinda BS as it can be called - or not - at will. Facemasks are mostly accidental. Two guys in motion at the same time (illegal shift)? Procedure penalties with the WRs at the line or not at the line (illegal formation)? Lining up off-side (looking at the great Myles Garrett)? Jumping off-side on 3rd and 4 (looking at MG AGAIN)? Kickoff team penalties when the ball is blasted through the endzone? Too many men on the field - even later in the year? Blocking in the back on seemingly every kick/punt return?

Nevermind missed assignments on D or miscommunication on O...all damn year long.

Stars missing practice? The bicycle brigade? Starters not playing in the pre-season? That would be all fine-and-good if we look(ed) ready on Opening Day...which we haven't since...I dunno when.

According to my wife and daughter: Ski is one good-looking man. That's the one-and-only thing on my (meaning their) list. My list remains blank.

Good point that some types of penalties are incidental and can even be BS - holding is so subjective. Myles gets held every 3rd play and hardly any are called and then when we have a crucial play the Refs seem to sometimes call some ticky tacky BS on our OL - was it Teller last year that got called on something and he went a little ballistic on the refs? ...

Also true that we seem to hurt ourselves with the procedural stuff more than most. I've always felt penalties overall are a reflection of coaching. Other than the winning record - it was the most glaring and obvious change the moment that Gregg Williams took over as interim HC. The winning record and the discipline were the 2 reasons I actually wanted to keep him as HC.

Hopefully it's a reflection of youth and come the season proper we will be better.

This offense has no room for error or wasted possessions this season.
The only way it has a chance to put consistent pts on the board
Is to have a ball control offense. It can't get into a shootout
With better offenses like the Chargers and Bengals.
The defense is going to have to create alot of Turnovers
Even good QBs need short fields and good starting field position.
I didn't see 1 WR that stood out other than Wyms.
This offense is really lacking in dynamics

""Padded practices may not be held on more than three consecutive calendar days, and such three-day practice periods may not be held more than three times during preseason training camp."

If you ask me, this is why there are so many injuries. Guys don't go full speed until the first game, then you have soft tissue issues and other injuries that just weren't as prevalent in the past