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#1962500 08/12/22 10:17 PM
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It’s preseason. You hate to see the injury to Harris. It didn’t look promising. Tretter has to be an option IMO. Pocic can’t be our center.

- I thought Watson and the first team (i use that term generously) looked disorganized, which is probably to be expected
- Schwartz just isn’t it. He was BAD tonight.
- A rare Johnson mistake with the fumble … hopefully that’s the only one of the year
- I thought Ford was the star of the night on offense .. he’s got some promise in the league (IMO he’s better than Felton right now)
- Thomas on defense impressed me … he was all over the place.
- Emerson made the play of the night. Heck of an effort by him
- Cade York was perfect … just what the doctor ordered
- DPJ had two bad mistakes. I hope Bell and Cooper can be a big upgrade to what we saw from the WRs
- Dobbs and Rosen were serviceable for us. That was kind of a bright spot.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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First I'm thinking, it's not fair to Deshaun Watson to make him play in the Ist @uarter with Anthony Schwartz.
then, I think, is there any @B that could have completed those passes to Schwartz that didn't have a snowballs chance.

Then, .. What the heck is A. Schwartz playing in the first *uarter for anyway, why is he first string.
THEN
What coach put A Schwartz out there with the starters, don't they have eyes, this can't be a thing nobody else sees.
Then THEN THEN

Do the Coaches even have the authority in this analytics Barbara stesisa nd era, to even knock A Schwartz down the depth chart so he's NOT in in the first @uarter.
And Why not.
Anthony Schwartz was in the game when Mayfield got injured.
Anthony Schwartz was in the game at least one play before Nick Harris got carted off tonight.


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Are you saying DPJ played tonight?
Like much of last year, I think he was invisible. ( Oh well, it was only a couple snaps that the ones got to be in the game anyway.)


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My main thought is that it sucks if Harris is out for the year. I feel bad for him.


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Otherwise, the rest of the game is ...’whatever’.


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Originally Posted by lampdogg
My main thought is that it sucks if Harris is out for the year. I feel bad for him.


Yes. He’s waited two years for his shot then he blows out his knee the second play of preseason.

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Rewatching the game right now as it’s on NFLN … a few other things:

Willie Harvey continues to somehow remain on our roster lol

Ford’s fumble was pretty unlucky because he made a great snag and move

I’m not as concerned about our DL depth as I have been in years past, but Alex Wright needs a lot of seasoning


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I hadn't thought of this before, but.
What is the plan for Anthony Schwartz. I don't remember, and does anyone else remember,
Do ya remember that one time, ( Just ONE TIME), when the Browns, even Attemped:
Even attempted to put the LEAGUE ON NOTICE, that they showed that they can throw a BOMB to Anthony Schwartz because he is the fastest guy on earth, and

if the rest of the NFL doesn't watch out, Anthony Schwartz is going to Burn them deep,

does anyone remember the ONE TIME, the Browns showed that, even as a TARGET, whether it went as a catch, drop, or int. or whatever,
Because it's been a Year and a Pre-season GAME
(a year and a pre-season game) (analytics is --awful)



and Still, there is no Highlight reel where Anthony Schwartz, the fastest guy on the sprinters track, has even had a Target:
on a deep sideline , or a deep BOMB behind the others' secondary or a
deep play where the ball thrown into the end zone,
and Anthony Schwartz' game is on display, that one, --- that highlight, that puts the league on notice,, (the Yes, play) where we see, that that is why the team went out and brought in Anthony Schwartz.


Because I don't remember it, and I don't think it even exists, and if they can't... well then What is the plan for Anthony Schwartz, if they can't even utilize his speed, even on a, a TARGET/ a pass-attempt
let alone if it would ever be complete or not.
I mean, Only in Cleveland.
edit:
if I could Explain.
I DON'T HATE ANTHONY SCHWARTZ,
I HATE the THINKING, that DECIDED, to put him where he is and to treat A. Schwartz like a starting WR, instead of treat A. Schwartz like a UDFA that barely had a chance to make the team, and only because of one metric, speed.
It's not His fault, it's the analytics departments' fault.

Last edited by THROW LONG; 08/13/22 06:00 AM.

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Originally Posted by lampdogg
My main thought is that it sucks if Harris is out for the year. I feel bad for him.

No doubt.

That said, I don't think he was going to be very good. He is just too small IMO. He was overwhelmed on that play, and he was in that position a lot when he played last season. It was just a matter of time before he buckled his knee. I suppose it is better now than later in the season.

I like Piocic and I also like Deaton. In the long run we will be better off playing those guys.


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I wasn't able to watch the game and trying to learn things from the Game Day thread was exhausting. So, thanks for the information. I'd appreciate any info about how players looked from anyone else who watched the game. Seems like Watson played poorly? Did all the OL starters play? How did Winfrey look? Sounds like Thomas was active. Did J. Phillips play and did he look improved if he did play? How did Greedy do? Did Bell play?

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I wasn't able to watch the game and trying to learn things from the Game Day thread was exhausting. So, thanks for the information. I'd appreciate any info about how players looked from anyone else who watched the game. Seems like Watson played poorly? Did all the OL starters play? How did Winfrey look? Sounds like Thomas was active. Did J. Phillips play and did he look improved if he did play? How did Greedy do? Did Bell play?

It would be tempting to criticize him but a 15 minute stint in a pre season game means nothing. Zero. Not to mention playing with a bunch of disoriented WR who has a first touch similar to a blind water buffalo What’s more concerning is our play calling, similar head scratching decisions as last season with nearly the same results. Thankfully it can’t get worse so no need to get more depressed then usual.

Even if we saw mostly our second and third string players our defense looked more solid then I remember from last season. Time will tell but as mention in the beginning of my post, pre season is like a fore play, without a happy ending it means nothing rofl

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Togiai and Elliott looked pretty good on the interior. Elliott added strength while maintaining and perhaps improving his quickness. Togiai had some nice redzone snaps taking on double teams and seemed around the ball a lot. Winfrey needs to work a lot on his pad level. He got pushed 5 yards downfield a few times. He had some nice snaps, too, but consistency is an issue.

It's hard to evaluate Watson as Schwartz had a pair of drops that stalled drives. Throw in Harris going down on play 2 and interesting fan chants, and it's not the greatest environment. He looked a bit like he hadn't played in a couple years, but then, he hasn't played in a couple years even without the distractions.

Takitaki seems to continue to improve in space. Had a nice coverage rep that stood out to me, and I'm always surprised a bit when it happens because I expected him to be more of an in the box bruiser when we drafted him.

Ford looked quick, almost Chubb like in the way he burst past people.

It was apparent that guys need to get acclimated to tackling/being tackled and full speed/power blocking.


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I’d say the entire first team offense (it was without A LOT of true first team guys) was very poor. Not great blocking, poor route running/catching, penalties that backed up drives, etc. It was just very rusty.

Winfrey was a non factor from what I saw, but Elliott looked improved and stronger to me. Also, the rookie Thomas was very disruptive .. I thought along with Ford he was the star of the night. Emerson had the one big play, but I’m a little concerned with his technique and positioning (but he’s very physical).


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Good point. I could tell when the game began that JAX was used to playing at game physicality and we weren’t yet


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by lampdogg
My main thought is that it sucks if Harris is out for the year. I feel bad for him.


Yes. He’s waited two years for his shot then he blows out his knee the second play of preseason.

Having LeCharles Bentley flashbacks.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
It’s preseason. You hate to see the injury to Harris. It didn’t look promising. Tretter has to be an option IMO. Pocic can’t be our center.

- I thought Watson and the first team (i use that term generously) looked disorganized, which is probably to be expected
I dont expect that. The jaguars didnt look disorganized.



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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I wasn't able to watch the game and trying to learn things from the Game Day thread was exhausting. So, thanks for the information. I'd appreciate any info about how players looked from anyone else who watched the game. Seems like Watson played poorly? Did all the OL starters play? How did Winfrey look? Sounds like Thomas was active. Did J. Phillips play and did he look improved if he did play? How did Greedy do? Did Bell play?

I understand Watson played poorly doesn't do it justice. And it's not the whole thing. ONE, none of the offensive skill players played, not Hunt, or Chubb, I don't remember if either of the 2 TEs did, but Cooper was out, Bell Wr was out because of injury, I heard those pregame,
and the 6th round WR from Okla wasn't going to play iirc,
It's not that Watson played poorly.
It was that the offense, was a disaster while Watson was in there,
In fact, I'm pretty sure the radio broadcaster used the words honestly and trainwreck in the same sentence description, at or about the 6rh offensive snap.
I remember the first two offensive plays were passes, maybe playaction, but uickly developing into a known pass situation at the dropback after the snap, and both uickly incomplete. On one of the first two drives- one of the 3rd down plays was a pass, kind of one of those forced into the spot throws we've seen in the past, and it just wasn't there. At some point Watson on Camera was, ya know, pointing and discussing with his teammates while coming off the field.

The OL starters, ... Conklin did not play, LT played I forget who, iirc. Bitonio, Harris, Teller, and RT I think was supposedly a starter to, though I don't think it was Hubbard or Conklin, I think the OL starters all played except Conklin, I just didn't hear/remember their names.

How did Winfrey look. They tried to upplay Winfrey for a couple of good plays on the broadcast but, I dunno, that's largely just my opinion though. The Defense played exceptionally, were just ok-to pretty good in the first uarter, but
after the 2nd uater on, the defense made a bunch of big plays. Isaiah Thomas, looked like a Gem or a pass rusher out there, and got beat around the corner once, I, T, had 2 sacks iirc, maybe a forced fumble.
Rochelle had a big sack / fumble there to.
The Refs took away a fumble recovered by the Browns where the Jags @b literally was being flung when he released the ball.

Alex Wright De may have played but was invisible.
Isaiah Thomas was Not invisible played like wow.
UDFA Safety Anthony Bell was not invisible played well
Listen: Javonte Moffatt, I'm glad to see him back, I think around February I saw his name on the Jets roster? Jovante Moffatt was in the game in a Browns uniform and made plays I like Moffatt, he has some of the same road to making the team had to prove it as others.

The starting Db's they made some plays, the ones who did play, (the I's ) made some plays in the red zone but gave up one complete pass early on the first couple snaps of the Jaguars game, a 40 ish yard pass.
The first @uarter DL against the run, was either bad, or whew he didn't break that reach tackle, or sporadic, so it wasn't good.

There were some defenders, who made some plays while blitzing, tackles for loss, by the Browns against the Jaguars who I don't remember having heard their name ever before.
J Phillips may not have played or was invisible to me.
How did Greedy play, Greedy played pretty dang well even though the refs got him on an illegal contact iirc, or grab.

Tony Fields Lb played, and got a call against him on a late hit, that even the TV announcers said there was nothing he could have done that he broke off contact. But Tony Fields I like him and I think he had more good than bad out there.

Tommy Togiai played at some point early. I do remember after a good Browns play on defense early, I couldn't tell exactly who did what but they were , (yes they were) they were praising Jordan Elliott.
The Defense, Man the defense played like they have 30 players who could make plays during the regular season.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Thanks for all the player analysis guys. That helps a lot.

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j/c…

Reason #89 not to play starters in a preseason game.



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Well, that sucks.

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Jerome Ford. Jerome Ford played the bulk of the game at Rb,
Even though I can say he made some big plays ( a 30 yarder, and Even though I can say he made some cut moves that worked for big gains, including one clear occasion, (and not the only occasion), where he started inside and then bounced it outside when nothing was there and turned nothing into 7 ish yards.
EVEN THOUGH he looked as good
as you could possibly expect, ( excluding the fumble after he fought for the line to gain that was a fumble)

I can still say, in the eyeball test, whether it was posture, or top gear speed, or holding the ball to high when he ran, or angles, or SOMETHING, something looked unpolished and definetly Raw about his first game. (Ben Gay Rb, 2004ish, ran smoother imo)
But He also had more than one catch, and more than one catch for a Rb in a preseason game is noteworthy.

I don't know if Demetric Felton played..? Jamarcus Bradley??-,--or somebody else returned the first kickoff it wasn't Felton.
John Kelly barely played, or I wasn't paying attention when if he did. But I think he had at least one snap/carry.

-------------
Ford
. (vs. William Green? William Green ran with more power and more fluid but Ford had better east west hips in Greens first ever game I saw him in in preseason?
vs. whatshis name round one not tannehill. Ford may have had better vision but whatshisname hit the hole better of the 4 , Ben Gay, Ford, William Green and Ist round pick who didn't work out- what's his name, Ford definetly looked the least fluid, and least smooth.
... against Lorenzo White, Peyton Hillis?
White was shifty er, White was always shiftier maybe even moreso than Ford but he was built skinnier than Ford is,
Peyton Hillis had more power but didn't have, Hillis is the only one I can think of in comparison to lack of smootheness to my memories of their very first time I saw them run.
Maybe, I999 rb. (Prentice) .. JJ, James Jackson 200I James Jackson was always smooth but, well power he had some but on such a small frame it couldn't materialize and JJ couldn't east -west break anything
Ford vs. Crowell's first ... I don't remember seeing Crowell's first games, Crowell was more of a through the whole or else, even if it was into a collapsing tunnel... Ford vs. jamal lewis? Ford looked a lot/little like jamal Lewis, like a miniature version of something looks like next to a full sized version of the same thing.
I can't compare Fords first preseason game to Chubb or Hunt, they are totally different running styles
and have I ever seen Chubb or Hunt in a preseason game, I don't recall them.
( I don't care how stupid that ^ reads it was a series of tangents)
edit: It was Trent Richardson who I couldn't remember his name.

Last edited by THROW LONG; 08/13/22 01:16 PM.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c…

Reason #89 not to play starters in a preseason game.



Or kill each other during camp.

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I watched some of the game today. The Jaguars’ announcers often times couldn’t be bothered to say the names of Browns players who made a tackle of whatever, there were a few guys wearing jersey #s that I couldn’t identify.

Most of our staters on the OL didn’t play, but the announcers overlooked that when talking about his great the Jacksonville run D was playing. They overlooked a lot of stuff actually.


Our punter (don’t know his name) boomed a couple good ones, and I did see Philips make some nice plays. Winfrey has a nice play, busting up the middle to get after the QB, although earlier in this thread someone mentioned he had a tough time of it on some plays.

Nice to see York make all the kicks. Schwartz dropped two easy catches in the first half. He might need to hit the bricks if that continues. Getting tired of him, he best turn it around fast.

Last edited by lampdogg; 08/13/22 05:57 PM.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c…

Reason #89 not to play starters in a preseason game.



Milk...I would rather test my "first time starters" in the preseason games than have to deal with those weaknesses such as Harris during the first game of the season. The GM will now have time to address the manning at the center position before the season starts.





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I have yet to watch - don't know if I will actually. But, Schwartz has had trouble catching apparently.

As a receiver in the NFL, shouldn't that be .........like, automatic? It's not jr. high, nor high school. Catch the damn ball, or it won't get thrown to you, I don't care how fast your 40 time is.

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I think Watson read the field ok...But as most said the offense looked disorganized. I mean it was bad.

From last years starting OLine, only Teller and Wills played. and Nick Harris left on Play#2 Wills had his hands full with the #1 pick overall...And I gotta admit that kid was impressive. Among the reserves...Petrula, the Tackle had a rough day. Drew Forbs at LG looked serviceable...against last teamers...(but in his credit...he would have his guy at the line of scrimmage where the rest of the OLine was getting pushed back...) Overall, the run blocking we are known for was not really there...and I don't think it was the amazing run D of the Jags...as the announcers would have you think....I think the only starting skill player outside of Watson that played was Njoku who had a decent 7 yrd catch from Watson...his only completion. Actually I think all of out TE's played well. Daylen Baldwin (WR) made some nice catches(tough catches). The Browns were 17 of 25 passing and 7 of those catches were to running backs so take that as you will. Speaking of RB...Jerome ford looks good straight line but doesn't seem shifty...he had a good game. He has good hands in the pass game. John Kelly made more than would be expected from his chances. I like this kid and the way he runs...he is relentless. But it was kind of all for naught as all of the bad blocking pushed his total to 20 yards on 10 attempts.

Alex Wright isn't the next coming of Garrett...But we should not put that kind of expectation from him. But I do think he did well. he wasn't a huge factor...But when moved to the left side...you could tell he was far more comfortable there and was more disruptive. Isaiah Thomas had a good night...relentless motor and was very disruptive. As mentioned before...Perrion Winfrey needs to work on his pad level...Overall not bad, I felt a bit unpolished. Bryan and Elliott were better than I expected...Isaac Rochell had a nice day being disruptive as well as Chris Odom...I think they helped their causes. I felt Greedy played well as did AJ Green...but you didn't hear their number often...D'Anthony Bell (S #37) was all over the field and near the ball...I thought he had a good game. Moffat was..ok in my eyes...he gave up an easy 4th down catch...only to make up for it on the next play with a sack. The LB's did not stand out...but weren't victimized either. And obviously saving the best for last, MJ Emmerson had the play of the game. That was plain nasty filthy....lol... Looking forward to seeing more...

Cade York was a little left on the first kick...and it looked like it ticked him off because he was dead c enter the rest of the way...LOL....Both punters did well...Bojourquez had Boomers but Charlton still averaged 50 with no returns...So in some ways you can pick your poison there.


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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
I have yet to watch - don't know if I will actually. But, Schwartz has had trouble catching apparently.

As a receiver in the NFL, shouldn't that be .........like, automatic? It's not jr. high, nor high school. Catch the damn ball, or it won't get thrown to you, I don't care how fast your 40 time is.


arch...The Schwartz has 'alligator arms' when he is going over the middle. He has a bad habit of taking his eye off the ball to take a peek to see if he is going to get hit. No doubt the Brown draft team had visions of Schwartz burning the field up with his 4.27 track speed...but they forgot the very first quality needed to be a WR...hands..can he catch the ball in traffic

Speed is not worth a damn if a WR can't catch the ball..!




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Originally Posted by mac
Speed is not worth a damn if a WR can't catch the ball..!

Facts!

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That's why I said what I said. If you can't catch the ball, you're not a receiver. Period. I don't care how fast you can run.

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Two guys who caught my eye…

Isiaih Thomas. Two sacks and a 7 yard TFL. Kid looks strong

D’Anthony Bell. Made a couple of nice hits and got a sack. Also forced a fumble. May make the team from the talk about him. He is down the list at safety.


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Thanks again to those of you who have provided analysis of individual players. It really helps those of us who didn't get to see the game.

I don't care about play calling, situational football, intensity, etc in preseason games. But, you can learn some things about individuals based on their individual play.

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Not sure if you saw a video of it or nor, but Emerson had a heck of play on the pick 6. Ripped the ball out the receivers hand, stiff-armed another guy to the ground and took it to the house.

The USFL guy also had a sack. Not sure he did much else.

York kicks like a kicker.

Dobbs and Rosen looked ok.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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Thanks Cap. Yeah, I watched Emerson's interception. He looks big and strong. Didn't he get beat a few times????

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Did anyone zero in on Pocic after Harris went down?

i think he was from Seattle and wasn’t very good, so I’m wondering if he’s our long term answer


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I believe he got beat on the very first play for a long gainer. He gave up another catch if I remember correctly a slant.


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Hopefully, they go get Tretter.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Thanks.

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I wonder if Tretter is blackballed? He has had excellent PFF numbers for quite some time. No way he should be unemployed unless he does not want to play. I haven't heard anything about him retiring.

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